On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 11:29:15 -0400,
wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 05:08:07 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:

And just found that out by losing a law suit against down state representative Darren bailey.

Pritzker is finding that he’s not as well loved as he thought he was.

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/loca...ports/2262560/

===

It kind of demonstrates the difficulty of legislating "one size fits
all" rules for a state that has both a high density urban area and a
large low density rural area. What works for Clay County doesn't
necessarily work for Chicago. New York has the same problem, as does
Massachusetts.

.... or most of the country.

BTW I am on the mailing list for Michigan government communications
because of some inquires I did a while ago about totally unrelated
stuff.
I got some rambling letter from Steve Spreitzer? telling me about the
racism component of the Corona Virus.
This pretty much sums up the 1000 words or so that he wrote.

"We are painfully aware that our neighbors in the Black community who
suffered great loss of wealth during the housing foreclosure crisis
and continue to battle the legacy of segregation for access to
opportunities, are disproportionately represented in the numbers of
those who have died and who are infected. Our outrage at this reality
is compounded by the fact that this scandal is the result of
deliberate practices and policies, which are deeply entrenched in
virtually all our systems."

Who knew a virus could be so racist?

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 17:11:05 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 08:46:05 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/28/2020 8:08 AM, Tim wrote:


And just found that out by losing a law suit against down state representative Darren bailey.

Pritzker is finding that he’s not as well loved as he thought he was.

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/loca...ports/2262560/



Some of this stuff is getting a little out of hand, IMO.

Our town just issued an "order" requiring everybody over 2 years old to
wear a mask when going to an "essential" store ... grocery, convenience,
gas stations, home improvement outlets, etc. Failure to obey can result
in fines.

The town's order also says you can't use N-95 or surgical type masks.
You are required to use a cloth mask that I guess you are supposed to
make yourself. I had dug up half a box of "procedural" masks that I
bought about 3 years ago at CVS for use when mowing the lawn. Now the
town says I can't use them because a procedural mask is considered a
surgical mask.

I have no problem with cooperating with this but it's not necessary to
issue an "order" enforceable with fines.

Wearing a mask is a commonsense courtesy to others. It doesn't protect
*you* ... it protects others if you are in close proximity and you
sneeze or cough.

When this whole thing started the public was asked to voluntarily
practice social distancing and limiting contact with others. For
us old farts, we were asked to voluntarily go into hibernation.

The whole purpose of this was to "flatten the curve" to prevent
hospitals from becoming overwhelmed with covid-19 cases.
That's all.

The public voluntarily responded and hospitals were never overwhelmed
even in places like NY and NYC. In fact, many now have empty beds and
hospitals are laying off medical staff.

We need to resist having local state governments issuing "orders"
enforceable by fines, especially when the voluntary efforts
of the public are working. Slippery-slope kind of thing.

All we need to do is to continue applying commonsense.


I am waiting to see a whole class of Covid related charges tossed as
soon as they get to court.
The mask thing will probably go first because there is absolutely zero
proof the bandanna mask does anything.
Even Fauci started out saying that and then I imagine he was prodded
into saying they *might* help. How are you going to tell thousands of
"Nannas" that they are wasting their time making masks.
I bet you don't see medical professionals wearing a home made mask.

Just think about it a minute. This is a porous material that you are
breathing through so it is collecting saliva. For an employee in a
store that is for hours. It is probably soaking wet. (I know my N-95s
won't last an hour in the shop until they are soaked).
Now I have this wet rag on my face, collecting all of my germs along
with any other germs that were in the air. There is zero filtering
capability for anything much bigger than 50-60 microns, even if the
rag is dry, wet it is a conduit. (Covid is 0.3 microns) I am
breathing the contamination in and if I sneeze, the germs are going
for a ride, infecting anyone or anything within range. How is that
helping anything.
All of that assumes you handle the mask properly and it doesn't become
a worse vector when you take it off and shove it in your pocket.


Try spitting through a mask.
--

Freedom Isn't Free!

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 18:47:21 -0400, John wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 17:11:05 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 08:46:05 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/28/2020 8:08 AM, Tim wrote:


And just found that out by losing a law suit against down state representative Darren bailey.

Pritzker is finding that he’s not as well loved as he thought he was.

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/loca...ports/2262560/



Some of this stuff is getting a little out of hand, IMO.

Our town just issued an "order" requiring everybody over 2 years old to
wear a mask when going to an "essential" store ... grocery, convenience,
gas stations, home improvement outlets, etc. Failure to obey can result
in fines.

The town's order also says you can't use N-95 or surgical type masks.
You are required to use a cloth mask that I guess you are supposed to
make yourself. I had dug up half a box of "procedural" masks that I
bought about 3 years ago at CVS for use when mowing the lawn. Now the
town says I can't use them because a procedural mask is considered a
surgical mask.

I have no problem with cooperating with this but it's not necessary to
issue an "order" enforceable with fines.

Wearing a mask is a commonsense courtesy to others. It doesn't protect
*you* ... it protects others if you are in close proximity and you
sneeze or cough.

When this whole thing started the public was asked to voluntarily
practice social distancing and limiting contact with others. For
us old farts, we were asked to voluntarily go into hibernation.

The whole purpose of this was to "flatten the curve" to prevent
hospitals from becoming overwhelmed with covid-19 cases.
That's all.

The public voluntarily responded and hospitals were never overwhelmed
even in places like NY and NYC. In fact, many now have empty beds and
hospitals are laying off medical staff.

We need to resist having local state governments issuing "orders"
enforceable by fines, especially when the voluntary efforts
of the public are working. Slippery-slope kind of thing.

All we need to do is to continue applying commonsense.


I am waiting to see a whole class of Covid related charges tossed as
soon as they get to court.
The mask thing will probably go first because there is absolutely zero
proof the bandanna mask does anything.
Even Fauci started out saying that and then I imagine he was prodded
into saying they *might* help. How are you going to tell thousands of
"Nannas" that they are wasting their time making masks.
I bet you don't see medical professionals wearing a home made mask.

Just think about it a minute. This is a porous material that you are
breathing through so it is collecting saliva. For an employee in a
store that is for hours. It is probably soaking wet. (I know my N-95s
won't last an hour in the shop until they are soaked).
Now I have this wet rag on my face, collecting all of my germs along
with any other germs that were in the air. There is zero filtering
capability for anything much bigger than 50-60 microns, even if the
rag is dry, wet it is a conduit. (Covid is 0.3 microns) I am
breathing the contamination in and if I sneeze, the germs are going
for a ride, infecting anyone or anything within range. How is that
helping anything.
All of that assumes you handle the mask properly and it doesn't become
a worse vector when you take it off and shove it in your pocket.


Try spitting through a mask.

Put some food coloring on the mask and sneeze through it. Don't do it
near anything expensive.

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 22:39:44 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 18:47:21 -0400, John wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 17:11:05 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 08:46:05 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/28/2020 8:08 AM, Tim wrote:


And just found that out by losing a law suit against down state representative Darren bailey.

Pritzker is finding that he’s not as well loved as he thought he was.

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/loca...ports/2262560/



Some of this stuff is getting a little out of hand, IMO.

Our town just issued an "order" requiring everybody over 2 years old to
wear a mask when going to an "essential" store ... grocery, convenience,
gas stations, home improvement outlets, etc. Failure to obey can result
in fines.

The town's order also says you can't use N-95 or surgical type masks.
You are required to use a cloth mask that I guess you are supposed to
make yourself. I had dug up half a box of "procedural" masks that I
bought about 3 years ago at CVS for use when mowing the lawn. Now the
town says I can't use them because a procedural mask is considered a
surgical mask.

I have no problem with cooperating with this but it's not necessary to
issue an "order" enforceable with fines.

Wearing a mask is a commonsense courtesy to others. It doesn't protect
*you* ... it protects others if you are in close proximity and you
sneeze or cough.

When this whole thing started the public was asked to voluntarily
practice social distancing and limiting contact with others. For
us old farts, we were asked to voluntarily go into hibernation.

The whole purpose of this was to "flatten the curve" to prevent
hospitals from becoming overwhelmed with covid-19 cases.
That's all.

The public voluntarily responded and hospitals were never overwhelmed
even in places like NY and NYC. In fact, many now have empty beds and
hospitals are laying off medical staff.

We need to resist having local state governments issuing "orders"
enforceable by fines, especially when the voluntary efforts
of the public are working. Slippery-slope kind of thing.

All we need to do is to continue applying commonsense.


I am waiting to see a whole class of Covid related charges tossed as
soon as they get to court.
The mask thing will probably go first because there is absolutely zero
proof the bandanna mask does anything.
Even Fauci started out saying that and then I imagine he was prodded
into saying they *might* help. How are you going to tell thousands of
"Nannas" that they are wasting their time making masks.
I bet you don't see medical professionals wearing a home made mask.

Just think about it a minute. This is a porous material that you are
breathing through so it is collecting saliva. For an employee in a
store that is for hours. It is probably soaking wet. (I know my N-95s
won't last an hour in the shop until they are soaked).
Now I have this wet rag on my face, collecting all of my germs along
with any other germs that were in the air. There is zero filtering
capability for anything much bigger than 50-60 microns, even if the
rag is dry, wet it is a conduit. (Covid is 0.3 microns) I am
breathing the contamination in and if I sneeze, the germs are going
for a ride, infecting anyone or anything within range. How is that
helping anything.
All of that assumes you handle the mask properly and it doesn't become
a worse vector when you take it off and shove it in your pocket.


Try spitting through a mask.

Put some food coloring on the mask and sneeze through it. Don't do it
near anything expensive.

Wrong. Put the food coloring in your mouth. Then sneeze through it. Now do the
same without the mask.

Common sense rules.
--

Freedom Isn't Free!

On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 09:31:28 -0400, John wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 22:39:44 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 18:47:21 -0400, John wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 17:11:05 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 08:46:05 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/28/2020 8:08 AM, Tim wrote:


And just found that out by losing a law suit against down state representative Darren bailey.

Pritzker is finding that he’s not as well loved as he thought he was.

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/loca...ports/2262560/



Some of this stuff is getting a little out of hand, IMO.

Our town just issued an "order" requiring everybody over 2 years old to
wear a mask when going to an "essential" store ... grocery, convenience,
gas stations, home improvement outlets, etc. Failure to obey can result
in fines.

The town's order also says you can't use N-95 or surgical type masks.
You are required to use a cloth mask that I guess you are supposed to
make yourself. I had dug up half a box of "procedural" masks that I
bought about 3 years ago at CVS for use when mowing the lawn. Now the
town says I can't use them because a procedural mask is considered a
surgical mask.

I have no problem with cooperating with this but it's not necessary to
issue an "order" enforceable with fines.

Wearing a mask is a commonsense courtesy to others. It doesn't protect
*you* ... it protects others if you are in close proximity and you
sneeze or cough.

When this whole thing started the public was asked to voluntarily
practice social distancing and limiting contact with others. For
us old farts, we were asked to voluntarily go into hibernation.

The whole purpose of this was to "flatten the curve" to prevent
hospitals from becoming overwhelmed with covid-19 cases.
That's all.

The public voluntarily responded and hospitals were never overwhelmed
even in places like NY and NYC. In fact, many now have empty beds and
hospitals are laying off medical staff.

We need to resist having local state governments issuing "orders"
enforceable by fines, especially when the voluntary efforts
of the public are working. Slippery-slope kind of thing.

All we need to do is to continue applying commonsense.


I am waiting to see a whole class of Covid related charges tossed as
soon as they get to court.
The mask thing will probably go first because there is absolutely zero
proof the bandanna mask does anything.
Even Fauci started out saying that and then I imagine he was prodded
into saying they *might* help. How are you going to tell thousands of
"Nannas" that they are wasting their time making masks.
I bet you don't see medical professionals wearing a home made mask.

Just think about it a minute. This is a porous material that you are
breathing through so it is collecting saliva. For an employee in a
store that is for hours. It is probably soaking wet. (I know my N-95s
won't last an hour in the shop until they are soaked).
Now I have this wet rag on my face, collecting all of my germs along
with any other germs that were in the air. There is zero filtering
capability for anything much bigger than 50-60 microns, even if the
rag is dry, wet it is a conduit. (Covid is 0.3 microns) I am
breathing the contamination in and if I sneeze, the germs are going
for a ride, infecting anyone or anything within range. How is that
helping anything.
All of that assumes you handle the mask properly and it doesn't become
a worse vector when you take it off and shove it in your pocket.


Try spitting through a mask.

Put some food coloring on the mask and sneeze through it. Don't do it
near anything expensive.

Wrong. Put the food coloring in your mouth. Then sneeze through it. Now do the
same without the mask.

Common sense rules.

We are talking about what happens to the contamination ON and IN the
mask when you sneeze through it., If you are wearing a mask for any
length of time on a warm day it will be soaked with sweat, saliva and
condensation. Now blow air through that. A T shirt is not going to
stop anything. It might slow down the range a little but you are still
contaminating any surface nearby and surface contamination seems to be
the main vector for this disease.

I probably have as much experience with masks, real N-95 masks, as
anyone here, just because of the amount of grinding and spray painting
I do. They are DONE in an hour or two. That is not anywhere close to
the ineffective do rags people call a mask these days.
I say again, wear your mask for an hour or so outside (until it gets
pretty moist), spray a little food color solution on it, inside or
out, it really doesn't make much difference, then blow air through it.
See what comes out.

Next, what do you do with your mask when you take it off? Shove it in
your pocket for next time? Throw it away?
Same with your gloves if you go that far.
Most of this crap is politically motivated feel good gestures having
nothing to do with proper sanitation. My nurse relative says that.

wrote:
On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 09:31:28 -0400, John wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 22:39:44 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 18:47:21 -0400, John wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 17:11:05 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 08:46:05 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/28/2020 8:08 AM, Tim wrote:


And just found that out by losing a law suit against down state
representative Darren bailey.

Pritzker is finding that he’s not as well loved as he thought he was.

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/loca...ports/2262560/



Some of this stuff is getting a little out of hand, IMO.

Our town just issued an "order" requiring everybody over 2 years old to
wear a mask when going to an "essential" store ... grocery, convenience,
gas stations, home improvement outlets, etc. Failure to obey can result
in fines.

The town's order also says you can't use N-95 or surgical type masks.
You are required to use a cloth mask that I guess you are supposed to
make yourself. I had dug up half a box of "procedural" masks that I
bought about 3 years ago at CVS for use when mowing the lawn. Now the
town says I can't use them because a procedural mask is considered a
surgical mask.

I have no problem with cooperating with this but it's not necessary to
issue an "order" enforceable with fines.

Wearing a mask is a commonsense courtesy to others. It doesn't protect
*you* ... it protects others if you are in close proximity and you
sneeze or cough.

When this whole thing started the public was asked to voluntarily
practice social distancing and limiting contact with others. For
us old farts, we were asked to voluntarily go into hibernation.

The whole purpose of this was to "flatten the curve" to prevent
hospitals from becoming overwhelmed with covid-19 cases.
That's all.

The public voluntarily responded and hospitals were never overwhelmed
even in places like NY and NYC. In fact, many now have empty beds and
hospitals are laying off medical staff.

We need to resist having local state governments issuing "orders"
enforceable by fines, especially when the voluntary efforts
of the public are working. Slippery-slope kind of thing.

All we need to do is to continue applying commonsense.


I am waiting to see a whole class of Covid related charges tossed as
soon as they get to court.
The mask thing will probably go first because there is absolutely zero
proof the bandanna mask does anything.
Even Fauci started out saying that and then I imagine he was prodded
into saying they *might* help. How are you going to tell thousands of
"Nannas" that they are wasting their time making masks.
I bet you don't see medical professionals wearing a home made mask.

Just think about it a minute. This is a porous material that you are
breathing through so it is collecting saliva. For an employee in a
store that is for hours. It is probably soaking wet. (I know my N-95s
won't last an hour in the shop until they are soaked).
Now I have this wet rag on my face, collecting all of my germs along
with any other germs that were in the air. There is zero filtering
capability for anything much bigger than 50-60 microns, even if the
rag is dry, wet it is a conduit. (Covid is 0.3 microns) I am
breathing the contamination in and if I sneeze, the germs are going
for a ride, infecting anyone or anything within range. How is that
helping anything.
All of that assumes you handle the mask properly and it doesn't become
a worse vector when you take it off and shove it in your pocket.


Try spitting through a mask.

Put some food coloring on the mask and sneeze through it. Don't do it
near anything expensive.

Wrong. Put the food coloring in your mouth. Then sneeze through it. Now do the
same without the mask.

Common sense rules.

We are talking about what happens to the contamination ON and IN the
mask when you sneeze through it., If you are wearing a mask for any
length of time on a warm day it will be soaked with sweat, saliva and
condensation. Now blow air through that. A T shirt is not going to
stop anything. It might slow down the range a little but you are still
contaminating any surface nearby and surface contamination seems to be
the main vector for this disease.

I probably have as much experience with masks, real N-95 masks, as
anyone here, just because of the amount of grinding and spray painting
I do. They are DONE in an hour or two. That is not anywhere close to
the ineffective do rags people call a mask these days.
I say again, wear your mask for an hour or so outside (until it gets
pretty moist), spray a little food color solution on it, inside or
out, it really doesn't make much difference, then blow air through it.
See what comes out.

Next, what do you do with your mask when you take it off? Shove it in
your pocket for next time? Throw it away?
Same with your gloves if you go that far.
Most of this crap is politically motivated feel good gestures having
nothing to do with proper sanitation. My nurse relative says that.


Maybe here our masks last longer. A really humid days 80%. Maybe fog.
Normal is the 25-40% range.

On 4/29/2020 1:41 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 09:31:28 -0400, John wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 22:39:44 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 18:47:21 -0400, John wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 17:11:05 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 08:46:05 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/28/2020 8:08 AM, Tim wrote:


And just found that out by losing a law suit against down state representative Darren bailey.

Pritzker is finding that he’s not as well loved as he thought he was.

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/loca...ports/2262560/



Some of this stuff is getting a little out of hand, IMO.

Our town just issued an "order" requiring everybody over 2 years old to
wear a mask when going to an "essential" store ... grocery, convenience,
gas stations, home improvement outlets, etc. Failure to obey can result
in fines.

The town's order also says you can't use N-95 or surgical type masks.
You are required to use a cloth mask that I guess you are supposed to
make yourself. I had dug up half a box of "procedural" masks that I
bought about 3 years ago at CVS for use when mowing the lawn. Now the
town says I can't use them because a procedural mask is considered a
surgical mask.

I have no problem with cooperating with this but it's not necessary to
issue an "order" enforceable with fines.

Wearing a mask is a commonsense courtesy to others. It doesn't protect
*you* ... it protects others if you are in close proximity and you
sneeze or cough.

When this whole thing started the public was asked to voluntarily
practice social distancing and limiting contact with others. For
us old farts, we were asked to voluntarily go into hibernation.

The whole purpose of this was to "flatten the curve" to prevent
hospitals from becoming overwhelmed with covid-19 cases.
That's all.

The public voluntarily responded and hospitals were never overwhelmed
even in places like NY and NYC. In fact, many now have empty beds and
hospitals are laying off medical staff.

We need to resist having local state governments issuing "orders"
enforceable by fines, especially when the voluntary efforts
of the public are working. Slippery-slope kind of thing.

All we need to do is to continue applying commonsense.


I am waiting to see a whole class of Covid related charges tossed as
soon as they get to court.
The mask thing will probably go first because there is absolutely zero
proof the bandanna mask does anything.
Even Fauci started out saying that and then I imagine he was prodded
into saying they *might* help. How are you going to tell thousands of
"Nannas" that they are wasting their time making masks.
I bet you don't see medical professionals wearing a home made mask.

Just think about it a minute. This is a porous material that you are
breathing through so it is collecting saliva. For an employee in a
store that is for hours. It is probably soaking wet. (I know my N-95s
won't last an hour in the shop until they are soaked).
Now I have this wet rag on my face, collecting all of my germs along
with any other germs that were in the air. There is zero filtering
capability for anything much bigger than 50-60 microns, even if the
rag is dry, wet it is a conduit. (Covid is 0.3 microns) I am
breathing the contamination in and if I sneeze, the germs are going
for a ride, infecting anyone or anything within range. How is that
helping anything.
All of that assumes you handle the mask properly and it doesn't become
a worse vector when you take it off and shove it in your pocket.


Try spitting through a mask.

Put some food coloring on the mask and sneeze through it. Don't do it
near anything expensive.

Wrong. Put the food coloring in your mouth. Then sneeze through it. Now do the
same without the mask.

Common sense rules.

We are talking about what happens to the contamination ON and IN the
mask when you sneeze through it., If you are wearing a mask for any
length of time on a warm day it will be soaked with sweat, saliva and
condensation. Now blow air through that. A T shirt is not going to
stop anything. It might slow down the range a little but you are still
contaminating any surface nearby and surface contamination seems to be
the main vector for this disease.

I probably have as much experience with masks, real N-95 masks, as
anyone here, just because of the amount of grinding and spray painting
I do. They are DONE in an hour or two. That is not anywhere close to
the ineffective do rags people call a mask these days.
I say again, wear your mask for an hour or so outside (until it gets
pretty moist), spray a little food color solution on it, inside or
out, it really doesn't make much difference, then blow air through it.
See what comes out.

Next, what do you do with your mask when you take it off? Shove it in
your pocket for next time? Throw it away?
Same with your gloves if you go that far.
Most of this crap is politically motivated feel good gestures having
nothing to do with proper sanitation. My nurse relative says that.



Greg, I don't think the CDC or local governments think people are
wearing a mask all day long and certainly not grinding or painting.

The "order" is to wear one when going into a store for groceries or
if stopping by your convenience store to pick up a loaf of bread.

I have a few I keep in my truck. I put one on as requested just
before I go into a store and take it off when I get back into the
truck. One mask is good for two or three days using it like that.

I have a large box of disposable gloves. I just trash them after
every use.





--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 13:41:11 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 09:31:28 -0400, John wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 22:39:44 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 18:47:21 -0400, John wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 17:11:05 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 08:46:05 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/28/2020 8:08 AM, Tim wrote:


And just found that out by losing a law suit against down state representative Darren bailey.

Pritzker is finding that he’s not as well loved as he thought he was.

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/loca...ports/2262560/



Some of this stuff is getting a little out of hand, IMO.

Our town just issued an "order" requiring everybody over 2 years old to
wear a mask when going to an "essential" store ... grocery, convenience,
gas stations, home improvement outlets, etc. Failure to obey can result
in fines.

The town's order also says you can't use N-95 or surgical type masks.
You are required to use a cloth mask that I guess you are supposed to
make yourself. I had dug up half a box of "procedural" masks that I
bought about 3 years ago at CVS for use when mowing the lawn. Now the
town says I can't use them because a procedural mask is considered a
surgical mask.

I have no problem with cooperating with this but it's not necessary to
issue an "order" enforceable with fines.

Wearing a mask is a commonsense courtesy to others. It doesn't protect
*you* ... it protects others if you are in close proximity and you
sneeze or cough.

When this whole thing started the public was asked to voluntarily
practice social distancing and limiting contact with others. For
us old farts, we were asked to voluntarily go into hibernation.

The whole purpose of this was to "flatten the curve" to prevent
hospitals from becoming overwhelmed with covid-19 cases.
That's all.

The public voluntarily responded and hospitals were never overwhelmed
even in places like NY and NYC. In fact, many now have empty beds and
hospitals are laying off medical staff.

We need to resist having local state governments issuing "orders"
enforceable by fines, especially when the voluntary efforts
of the public are working. Slippery-slope kind of thing.

All we need to do is to continue applying commonsense.


I am waiting to see a whole class of Covid related charges tossed as
soon as they get to court.
The mask thing will probably go first because there is absolutely zero
proof the bandanna mask does anything.
Even Fauci started out saying that and then I imagine he was prodded
into saying they *might* help. How are you going to tell thousands of
"Nannas" that they are wasting their time making masks.
I bet you don't see medical professionals wearing a home made mask.

Just think about it a minute. This is a porous material that you are
breathing through so it is collecting saliva. For an employee in a
store that is for hours. It is probably soaking wet. (I know my N-95s
won't last an hour in the shop until they are soaked).
Now I have this wet rag on my face, collecting all of my germs along
with any other germs that were in the air. There is zero filtering
capability for anything much bigger than 50-60 microns, even if the
rag is dry, wet it is a conduit. (Covid is 0.3 microns) I am
breathing the contamination in and if I sneeze, the germs are going
for a ride, infecting anyone or anything within range. How is that
helping anything.
All of that assumes you handle the mask properly and it doesn't become
a worse vector when you take it off and shove it in your pocket.


Try spitting through a mask.

Put some food coloring on the mask and sneeze through it. Don't do it
near anything expensive.

Wrong. Put the food coloring in your mouth. Then sneeze through it. Now do the
same without the mask.

Common sense rules.

We are talking about what happens to the contamination ON and IN the
mask when you sneeze through it., If you are wearing a mask for any
length of time on a warm day it will be soaked with sweat, saliva and
condensation. Now blow air through that. A T shirt is not going to
stop anything. It might slow down the range a little but you are still
contaminating any surface nearby and surface contamination seems to be
the main vector for this disease.

So change the mask more often. The mask is to be worn when shopping or whatever,
not all day. I went to Costco this morning. All were in masks. Maybe they wore
them for a whole hour while shopping. No sweat, and I didn't spit in it. There
may have been a bit of condensation. But, I'll guarantee that that if I had
coughed or sneezed, much less 'contamination' would be spread than if I had no
mask.

I probably have as much experience with masks, real N-95 masks, as
anyone here, just because of the amount of grinding and spray painting
I do. They are DONE in an hour or two. That is not anywhere close to
the ineffective do rags people call a mask these days.
I say again, wear your mask for an hour or so outside (until it gets
pretty moist), spray a little food color solution on it, inside or
out, it really doesn't make much difference, then blow air through it.
See what comes out.

Wrong again. Put your food coloring in your mouth and then cough. Do it with and
without the mask. See which allows the least food coloring to spew out. You need
to get real.

Next, what do you do with your mask when you take it off? Shove it in
your pocket for next time? Throw it away?
Same with your gloves if you go that far.
Most of this crap is politically motivated feel good gestures having
nothing to do with proper sanitation. My nurse relative says that.

When I remove the mask it gets put in a dog poop bag and dumped in the washing
machine.

A little thinking goes a long way, Greg. The cloth masks (use a tightly woven
sheet) are not N95 respirators. But to argue that they won't reduce the aerosol
from a cough or sneeze is ridiculous - regardless of how much you've painted and
sanded.
--

Freedom Isn't Free!

On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 18:02:42 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

wrote:
On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 09:31:28 -0400, John wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 22:39:44 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 18:47:21 -0400, John wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 17:11:05 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 08:46:05 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/28/2020 8:08 AM, Tim wrote:


And just found that out by losing a law suit against down state
representative Darren bailey.

Pritzker is finding that he’s not as well loved as he thought he was.

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/loca...ports/2262560/



Some of this stuff is getting a little out of hand, IMO.

Our town just issued an "order" requiring everybody over 2 years old to
wear a mask when going to an "essential" store ... grocery, convenience,
gas stations, home improvement outlets, etc. Failure to obey can result
in fines.

The town's order also says you can't use N-95 or surgical type masks.
You are required to use a cloth mask that I guess you are supposed to
make yourself. I had dug up half a box of "procedural" masks that I
bought about 3 years ago at CVS for use when mowing the lawn. Now the
town says I can't use them because a procedural mask is considered a
surgical mask.

I have no problem with cooperating with this but it's not necessary to
issue an "order" enforceable with fines.

Wearing a mask is a commonsense courtesy to others. It doesn't protect
*you* ... it protects others if you are in close proximity and you
sneeze or cough.

When this whole thing started the public was asked to voluntarily
practice social distancing and limiting contact with others. For
us old farts, we were asked to voluntarily go into hibernation.

The whole purpose of this was to "flatten the curve" to prevent
hospitals from becoming overwhelmed with covid-19 cases.
That's all.

The public voluntarily responded and hospitals were never overwhelmed
even in places like NY and NYC. In fact, many now have empty beds and
hospitals are laying off medical staff.

We need to resist having local state governments issuing "orders"
enforceable by fines, especially when the voluntary efforts
of the public are working. Slippery-slope kind of thing.

All we need to do is to continue applying commonsense.


I am waiting to see a whole class of Covid related charges tossed as
soon as they get to court.
The mask thing will probably go first because there is absolutely zero
proof the bandanna mask does anything.
Even Fauci started out saying that and then I imagine he was prodded
into saying they *might* help. How are you going to tell thousands of
"Nannas" that they are wasting their time making masks.
I bet you don't see medical professionals wearing a home made mask.

Just think about it a minute. This is a porous material that you are
breathing through so it is collecting saliva. For an employee in a
store that is for hours. It is probably soaking wet. (I know my N-95s
won't last an hour in the shop until they are soaked).
Now I have this wet rag on my face, collecting all of my germs along
with any other germs that were in the air. There is zero filtering
capability for anything much bigger than 50-60 microns, even if the
rag is dry, wet it is a conduit. (Covid is 0.3 microns) I am
breathing the contamination in and if I sneeze, the germs are going
for a ride, infecting anyone or anything within range. How is that
helping anything.
All of that assumes you handle the mask properly and it doesn't become
a worse vector when you take it off and shove it in your pocket.


Try spitting through a mask.

Put some food coloring on the mask and sneeze through it. Don't do it
near anything expensive.

Wrong. Put the food coloring in your mouth. Then sneeze through it. Now do the
same without the mask.

Common sense rules.

We are talking about what happens to the contamination ON and IN the
mask when you sneeze through it., If you are wearing a mask for any
length of time on a warm day it will be soaked with sweat, saliva and
condensation. Now blow air through that. A T shirt is not going to
stop anything. It might slow down the range a little but you are still
contaminating any surface nearby and surface contamination seems to be
the main vector for this disease.

I probably have as much experience with masks, real N-95 masks, as
anyone here, just because of the amount of grinding and spray painting
I do. They are DONE in an hour or two. That is not anywhere close to
the ineffective do rags people call a mask these days.
I say again, wear your mask for an hour or so outside (until it gets
pretty moist), spray a little food color solution on it, inside or
out, it really doesn't make much difference, then blow air through it.
See what comes out.

Next, what do you do with your mask when you take it off? Shove it in
your pocket for next time? Throw it away?
Same with your gloves if you go that far.
Most of this crap is politically motivated feel good gestures having
nothing to do with proper sanitation. My nurse relative says that.


Maybe here our masks last longer. A really humid days 80%. Maybe fog.
Normal is the 25-40% range.

Greg's just being argumentative. But then again, maybe he does fill up a mask
with spit, sweat, and condensation in an hour shopping.
--

Freedom Isn't Free!

Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 4/29/2020 1:41 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 09:31:28 -0400, John wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 22:39:44 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 18:47:21 -0400, John wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 17:11:05 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 08:46:05 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/28/2020 8:08 AM, Tim wrote:


And just found that out by losing a law suit against down state
representative Darren bailey.

Pritzker is finding that he’s not as well loved as he thought he was.

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/loca...ports/2262560/



Some of this stuff is getting a little out of hand, IMO.

Our town just issued an "order" requiring everybody over 2 years old to
wear a mask when going to an "essential" store ... grocery, convenience,
gas stations, home improvement outlets, etc. Failure to obey can result
in fines.

The town's order also says you can't use N-95 or surgical type masks.
You are required to use a cloth mask that I guess you are supposed to
make yourself. I had dug up half a box of "procedural" masks that I
bought about 3 years ago at CVS for use when mowing the lawn. Now the
town says I can't use them because a procedural mask is considered a
surgical mask.

I have no problem with cooperating with this but it's not necessary to
issue an "order" enforceable with fines.

Wearing a mask is a commonsense courtesy to others. It doesn't protect
*you* ... it protects others if you are in close proximity and you
sneeze or cough.

When this whole thing started the public was asked to voluntarily
practice social distancing and limiting contact with others. For
us old farts, we were asked to voluntarily go into hibernation.

The whole purpose of this was to "flatten the curve" to prevent
hospitals from becoming overwhelmed with covid-19 cases.
That's all.

The public voluntarily responded and hospitals were never overwhelmed
even in places like NY and NYC. In fact, many now have empty beds and
hospitals are laying off medical staff.

We need to resist having local state governments issuing "orders"
enforceable by fines, especially when the voluntary efforts
of the public are working. Slippery-slope kind of thing.

All we need to do is to continue applying commonsense.


I am waiting to see a whole class of Covid related charges tossed as
soon as they get to court.
The mask thing will probably go first because there is absolutely zero
proof the bandanna mask does anything.
Even Fauci started out saying that and then I imagine he was prodded
into saying they *might* help. How are you going to tell thousands of
"Nannas" that they are wasting their time making masks.
I bet you don't see medical professionals wearing a home made mask.

Just think about it a minute. This is a porous material that you are
breathing through so it is collecting saliva. For an employee in a
store that is for hours. It is probably soaking wet. (I know my N-95s
won't last an hour in the shop until they are soaked).
Now I have this wet rag on my face, collecting all of my germs along
with any other germs that were in the air. There is zero filtering
capability for anything much bigger than 50-60 microns, even if the
rag is dry, wet it is a conduit. (Covid is 0.3 microns) I am
breathing the contamination in and if I sneeze, the germs are going
for a ride, infecting anyone or anything within range. How is that
helping anything.
All of that assumes you handle the mask properly and it doesn't become
a worse vector when you take it off and shove it in your pocket.


Try spitting through a mask.

Put some food coloring on the mask and sneeze through it. Don't do it
near anything expensive.

Wrong. Put the food coloring in your mouth. Then sneeze through it. Now do the
same without the mask.

Common sense rules.

We are talking about what happens to the contamination ON and IN the
mask when you sneeze through it., If you are wearing a mask for any
length of time on a warm day it will be soaked with sweat, saliva and
condensation. Now blow air through that. A T shirt is not going to
stop anything. It might slow down the range a little but you are still
contaminating any surface nearby and surface contamination seems to be
the main vector for this disease.

I probably have as much experience with masks, real N-95 masks, as
anyone here, just because of the amount of grinding and spray painting
I do. They are DONE in an hour or two. That is not anywhere close to
the ineffective do rags people call a mask these days.
I say again, wear your mask for an hour or so outside (until it gets
pretty moist), spray a little food color solution on it, inside or
out, it really doesn't make much difference, then blow air through it.
See what comes out.

Next, what do you do with your mask when you take it off? Shove it in
your pocket for next time? Throw it away?
Same with your gloves if you go that far.
Most of this crap is politically motivated feel good gestures having
nothing to do with proper sanitation. My nurse relative says that.



Greg, I don't think the CDC or local governments think people are
wearing a mask all day long and certainly not grinding or painting.

The "order" is to wear one when going into a store for groceries or
if stopping by your convenience store to pick up a loaf of bread.

I have a few I keep in my truck. I put one on as requested just
before I go into a store and take it off when I get back into the
truck. One mask is good for two or three days using it like that.

I have a large box of disposable gloves. I just trash them after
every use.






We got takeout yesterday for,the first time. Sign on door “masks required
“. Chicken and waffle sandwich. Really good.