On Tue, 15 Aug 2017 21:17:43 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 8/15/2017 7:28 PM, John H wrote:
On Tue, 15 Aug 2017 17:20:31 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 8/15/2017 1:16 PM, John H wrote:
On Thu, 10 Aug 2017 08:51:11 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 8/10/2017 1:09 AM, wrote:
On Wed, 9 Aug 2017 15:59:43 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 8/9/2017 2:15 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 9 Aug 2017 13:50:30 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

I think the problem is on the PC board in the control unit. It's
supposed to turn on, light up blue and display all the membrane switch
areas and labels. It doesn't. Has 12 volts but doesn't turn on,


That is the problem with most new things. Everything is on a single
board that may only cost a few bucks to produce in some 3d world
country but sells for hundreds of dollars. They seldom/never provide
any documentation about what is on that board. With a little knowledge
of what usually goes wrong, you might get lucky and find a bad part
you can replace on the board but they are bad about using parts with
no helpful markings on them.
I would start with the most rudimentary thing that is not working and
trace back to the 12v ... like those back lights. It may just be a
diode or regulator on the front end. (the actual controls may be 5v)
Are there any burned traces? Parts that look like they got hot?
I usually try to draw out what I see going along the traces and hope
it is not a multilayered board.
I got into this trying to fix gate controller boards. Fixed a few,
tossed a bunch. The chip that seemed to be the failing part on most
was not documented and the manufacturer was no help.



So far I have only seen one side of the control panel board. I plan to
remove it completely and inspect it. There are a bunch of tiny diodes
on it that are about the only things I can check (forward and reverse
bias) if I scrape away some of the conformal coating but nothing else is
testable that I can see so far. I think the problem *is* on the PC
board but a replacement is not available.


I have not been riveted to this thread but Justan may be on to
something. How complicated is the task this board accomplishes and can
it be done with a few relays? Those black automotive "ice cube" relays
are pretty robust (30a) and available just about anywhere. Sometime
old school is the way to go.



It's doable but I really don't want to get involved with tracing a whole
bunch of unmarked wires with no diagrams to give you a clue as to where
they go and what they control. Plus, it probably won't fix the level
indicators for the fresh, grey and black water tanks.

I've learned to be a little careful about what to sign up for on other
people's equipment. Back in my Navy days I used to repair or do
convergence and gun drive adjustments old CRT type TV sets, fixed VCR's,
radios, etc. Once you touch it, you become "on call" for any future
problems or issues.


I was telling a friend about this issue. He asked if your friend had contacted the Recreation
Vehicle Industry Association. When I mentioned the rig was a 2013 and the company no longer made the
part, his immediate suggestion was to call RVIA and give them the story. He's been an RV'er a long
time.

RVIA - 703-620-6003



I'll mention it to him but I doubt anyone can do much. Keystone screwed
up royally with this fancy wireless system and won't support it at all
anymore. Even the company who made it for them doesn't support it. Only
made it for not quite two years before dumping it due to all the problems.

I spent the day today trying one last time to find the problem with his
rig. Took the control panel completely apart, down to the three layers
of PC boards. Found a large reverse polarity protection power diode but
it checked good. The rest of the circuitry consisted of chips that I
have no way of testing. Was able to turn various systems on by
jumping 12 volts to different unmarked wires, so the potential to rewire
the whole thing using a panel with real switches instead of the silly
membrane pads that send a signal to the main CPU in the front of the
fiver. I can't believe Keystone went to all this trouble to get fancy
with a panel that has a very simple job to do.

Anyway, am reluctantly going to check into a replacement panel with real
switches and rewire the thing. I really don't want to but I feel I've
invested enough of my time into this now that I want to see success.
Besides, the guy I am helping is really a decent **** but knows
absolutely nothing about wires, switches or electricity.


Larry, my buddy, thought that there was a requirement somewhere for RV manufacturers to keep parts
available for some amount of time after the rig was made.

Did he try calling Bontrager's?


Who is Bontrager's?

He has tried everyone from Keystone to the company who they
subcontracted the wireless control system from. They don't sell
replacements or support the particular system he has. I've done a lot
of research on it and it has many people who have had the same problem
with it. Only solution is to replace it with a new panel that doesn't
rely on the wireless feature.


I gave you this before we took off, I think. These are RV surplus dealers. I've dealt with
Bontrager's. Don't know if they'll mail stuff, but worth a try. They've got all kinds of RV stuff -
electronics to furniture.

Bontrager's Surplus Inc
4.5 (14) · RV Dealer
White Pigeon, MI · (269) 483-7017
Open until 6:00 PM

Johnson's Surplus
3.8 (39) · Surplus Store
White Pigeon, MI · (269) 483-2249
Closed today

On Tue, 15 Aug 2017 22:09:09 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 15 Aug 2017 21:17:43 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:


He has tried everyone from Keystone to the company who they
subcontracted the wireless control system from. They don't sell
replacements or support the particular system he has. I've done a lot
of research on it and it has many people who have had the same problem
with it. Only solution is to replace it with a new panel that doesn't
rely on the wireless feature.


This RV business makes boats look like a cheap hobby

I'd say they're close, but boats can be a lot bigger and more expensive.

On Wed, 16 Aug 2017 06:30:07 -0400, John H
wrote:

This RV business makes boats look like a cheap hobby

I'd say they're close, but boats can be a lot bigger and more expensive.

On average I think RVs are more expensive. Certainly Paul Allen and
Larry Ellison have some very expensive yachts but the boats owned by
most mortal people are less than $80k and that seems to be the
starting point for a bare bones pusher. My neighbor paid $120k for his
a dozen years ago and it wasn't that fancy.
My buddy's neighbor/landlord has one that is more like a megabuck with
the trailer.
http://gfretwell.com/ftp/Bobs%20RV.jpg

On Wed, 16 Aug 2017 11:33:33 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 16 Aug 2017 06:30:07 -0400, John H
wrote:

This RV business makes boats look like a cheap hobby

I'd say they're close, but boats can be a lot bigger and more expensive.

On average I think RVs are more expensive. Certainly Paul Allen and
Larry Ellison have some very expensive yachts but the boats owned by
most mortal people are less than $80k and that seems to be the
starting point for a bare bones pusher. My neighbor paid $120k for his
a dozen years ago and it wasn't that fancy.
My buddy's neighbor/landlord has one that is more like a megabuck with
the trailer.
http://gfretwell.com/ftp/Bobs%20RV.jpg


===

Is that a guest cottage in the trailer?

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On Wed, 16 Aug 2017 14:07:54 -0400,
wrote:

On Wed, 16 Aug 2017 11:33:33 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 16 Aug 2017 06:30:07 -0400, John H
wrote:

This RV business makes boats look like a cheap hobby

I'd say they're close, but boats can be a lot bigger and more expensive.

On average I think RVs are more expensive. Certainly Paul Allen and
Larry Ellison have some very expensive yachts but the boats owned by
most mortal people are less than $80k and that seems to be the
starting point for a bare bones pusher. My neighbor paid $120k for his
a dozen years ago and it wasn't that fancy.
My buddy's neighbor/landlord has one that is more like a megabuck with
the trailer.
http://gfretwell.com/ftp/Bobs%20RV.jpg


===

Is that a guest cottage in the trailer?

Two collectible cars as a general rule.
It is a double decker car carrier.
This guy has over 100 of them in various stages of restoration.

On Wed, 16 Aug 2017 11:33:33 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 16 Aug 2017 06:30:07 -0400, John H
wrote:

This RV business makes boats look like a cheap hobby

I'd say they're close, but boats can be a lot bigger and more expensive.

On average I think RVs are more expensive. Certainly Paul Allen and
Larry Ellison have some very expensive yachts but the boats owned by
most mortal people are less than $80k and that seems to be the
starting point for a bare bones pusher. My neighbor paid $120k for his
a dozen years ago and it wasn't that fancy.
My buddy's neighbor/landlord has one that is more like a megabuck with
the trailer.
http://gfretwell.com/ftp/Bobs%20RV.jpg

That looks like a Prevost. A new 45' Prevost can run upwards of $1.5 million. You don't see many of
those at your 'average' campground. I think there was only one at Gettysburg where I was.

I suppose you're comparing prices by foot. I guess I was thinking more of the yachts in the 100' and
more range. Seems like those get pretty expensive. You can pack only so much 'stuff' into a 45'
motorhome, but I don't think there's a limit to how long and expensive a yacht can be.

On Mon, 21 Aug 2017 13:36:23 -0400, John H
wrote:

On Wed, 16 Aug 2017 11:33:33 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 16 Aug 2017 06:30:07 -0400, John H
wrote:

This RV business makes boats look like a cheap hobby

I'd say they're close, but boats can be a lot bigger and more expensive.

On average I think RVs are more expensive. Certainly Paul Allen and
Larry Ellison have some very expensive yachts but the boats owned by
most mortal people are less than $80k and that seems to be the
starting point for a bare bones pusher. My neighbor paid $120k for his
a dozen years ago and it wasn't that fancy.
My buddy's neighbor/landlord has one that is more like a megabuck with
the trailer.
http://gfretwell.com/ftp/Bobs%20RV.jpg

That looks like a Prevost. A new 45' Prevost can run upwards of $1.5 million. You don't see many of
those at your 'average' campground. I think there was only one at Gettysburg where I was.

I suppose you're comparing prices by foot. I guess I was thinking more of the yachts in the 100' and
more range. Seems like those get pretty expensive. You can pack only so much 'stuff' into a 45'
motorhome, but I don't think there's a limit to how long and expensive a yacht can be.

There are some really nice yachts out there but those are the uber
rich.

On Mon, 21 Aug 2017 13:49:52 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 21 Aug 2017 13:36:23 -0400, John H
wrote:

On Wed, 16 Aug 2017 11:33:33 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 16 Aug 2017 06:30:07 -0400, John H
wrote:

This RV business makes boats look like a cheap hobby

I'd say they're close, but boats can be a lot bigger and more expensive.

On average I think RVs are more expensive. Certainly Paul Allen and
Larry Ellison have some very expensive yachts but the boats owned by
most mortal people are less than $80k and that seems to be the
starting point for a bare bones pusher. My neighbor paid $120k for his
a dozen years ago and it wasn't that fancy.
My buddy's neighbor/landlord has one that is more like a megabuck with
the trailer.
http://gfretwell.com/ftp/Bobs%20RV.jpg

That looks like a Prevost. A new 45' Prevost can run upwards of $1.5 million. You don't see many of
those at your 'average' campground. I think there was only one at Gettysburg where I was.

I suppose you're comparing prices by foot. I guess I was thinking more of the yachts in the 100' and
more range. Seems like those get pretty expensive. You can pack only so much 'stuff' into a 45'
motorhome, but I don't think there's a limit to how long and expensive a yacht can be.

There are some really nice yachts out there but those are the uber
rich.

Those new Prevosts are owned by the uber-rich in my opinion!