An elderly friend has a 2013 Keystone Cougar fifth wheel that he and his
wife snowbird to Florida in during the winter. When he came back this
year the main control panel that controls slides, lights, displays
fresh, grey and black water levels, etc. stopped working. Doesn't even
light up like it's supposed to. He asked me if I had any ideas and,
being the friendly, helpful sort I offered to see if I could find the
problem.

Not that simple. For a couple of years Keystone made these panels using
a membrane type switch panel that transmits wirelessly to a "brain" in
one of the forward compartments. Worse, there are no manuals, wiring
diagrams or schematics for the system. Worse yet, they had so many
problems with this system that they no longer make it or support it.
Checked a few places on the Internet in hopes of finding some kind of
documentation and all I found was horror story after horror story of
people with this system. Some failed shortly after they bought the
fifth wheel and never worked again.

I realized it was wireless while checking some voltages. When I checked
in the area of the "brain" my digital meter would initially read
12.something volts but then start slowly climbing to as high as 18
volts. I thought the meter was bad but when checking voltages at the
other end of the fifth wheel where the control panel is, the readings
were rock solid. Then I noticed a strange wire going nowhere that came
out of the "brain" and realized it was an antenna. The whole system
operates wirelessly and my meter was being affected by the RF noise.

The manufacturer of the wireless system is of no help either. No
diagrams available, no schematics, no replacement PC boards (everything
is surface mount). They basically have disowned anything to do with
this system.

My friend contacted a third party supplier who said they can send a
"kit" to replace the main control panel - no wireing diagrams though and
but will not guarantee it will work and no returns. The kit is $500.

I wish I never offered to help him. Now I own the damn problem.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com

On 8/8/2017 4:00 PM, Justan wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" Wrote in message:

An elderly friend has a 2013 Keystone Cougar fifth wheel that he and his
wife snowbird to Florida in during the winter. When he came back this
year the main control panel that controls slides, lights, displays
fresh, grey and black water levels, etc. stopped working. Doesn't even
light up like it's supposed to. He asked me if I had any ideas and,
being the friendly, helpful sort I offered to see if I could find the
problem.

Not that simple. For a couple of years Keystone made these panels using
a membrane type switch panel that transmits wirelessly to a "brain" in
one of the forward compartments. Worse, there are no manuals, wiring
diagrams or schematics for the system. Worse yet, they had so many
problems with this system that they no longer make it or support it.
Checked a few places on the Internet in hopes of finding some kind of
documentation and all I found was horror story after horror story of
people with this system. Some failed shortly after they bought the
fifth wheel and never worked again.

I realized it was wireless while checking some voltages. When I checked
in the area of the "brain" my digital meter would initially read
12.something volts but then start slowly climbing to as high as 18
volts. I thought the meter was bad but when checking voltages at the
other end of the fifth wheel where the control panel is, the readings
were rock solid. Then I noticed a strange wire going nowhere that came
out of the "brain" and realized it was an antenna. The whole system
operates wirelessly and my meter was being affected by the RF noise.

The manufacturer of the wireless system is of no help either. No
diagrams available, no schematics, no replacement PC boards (everything
is surface mount). They basically have disowned anything to do with
this system.

My friend contacted a third party supplier who said they can send a
"kit" to replace the main control panel - no wireing diagrams though and
but will not guarantee it will work and no returns. The kit is $500.

I wish I never offered to help him. Now I own the damn problem.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com



Flagg RV in Uxbridge name keeps popping up. Turn the project over
to them. You'd end up wiring in all new circuits and building a
control panel. I don't think you want to do that.




I *know* I don't want to do that. I am going to tell him his best bet
is to take it to an RV place like Flagg, assuming even *they* want to
get involved.

On 8/8/2017 4:13 PM, justan wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" Wrote in message:

An elderly friend has a 2013 Keystone Cougar fifth wheel that he and his
wife snowbird to Florida in during the winter. When he came back this
year the main control panel that controls slides, lights, displays
fresh, grey and black water levels, etc. stopped working. Doesn't even
light up like it's supposed to. He asked me if I had any ideas and,
being the friendly, helpful sort I offered to see if I could find the
problem.

Not that simple. For a couple of years Keystone made these panels using
a membrane type switch panel that transmits wirelessly to a "brain" in
one of the forward compartments. Worse, there are no manuals, wiring
diagrams or schematics for the system. Worse yet, they had so many
problems with this system that they no longer make it or support it.
Checked a few places on the Internet in hopes of finding some kind of
documentation and all I found was horror story after horror story of
people with this system. Some failed shortly after they bought the
fifth wheel and never worked again.

I realized it was wireless while checking some voltages. When I checked
in the area of the "brain" my digital meter would initially read
12.something volts but then start slowly climbing to as high as 18
volts. I thought the meter was bad but when checking voltages at the
other end of the fifth wheel where the control panel is, the readings
were rock solid. Then I noticed a strange wire going nowhere that came
out of the "brain" and realized it was an antenna. The whole system
operates wirelessly and my meter was being affected by the RF noise.

The manufacturer of the wireless system is of no help either. No
diagrams available, no schematics, no replacement PC boards (everything
is surface mount). They basically have disowned anything to do with
this system.

My friend contacted a third party supplier who said they can send a
"kit" to replace the main control panel - no wireing diagrams though and
but will not guarantee it will work and no returns. The kit is $500.

I wish I never offered to help him. Now I own the damn problem.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com



Googled
it and came up with dead battery in remote. Also says it
wont work if you stray from front of 5th wheel.
There seems to be a lot of buzz about this problem on the internet.


Yeah, I found the thing about the batteries in the remote and how to
reset the whole system. Put new batteries in it and did the reset
procedure. No luck. Still no power on the control panel. I pulled the
panel out and checked the input voltage. It comes in on four pairs of
terminals and they all read 12.4 volts. There's a PC board in the panel
with a bunch of relays, logic chips and diodes on it. Everything is
double surface mount, so not designed to be worked on ... only replace
the whole board (which isn't made anymore).

The slides work with the remote, so that's most important as well as
some of the interior lights. There's a few more lights and the
redundant slide controls plus the input sensors from the three tanks so
the panel not working doesn't prevent them from using the rig.

Without any wiring diagrams, schematics or documentation of any kind
it's really Easter Egging as far as trying to troubleshoot.

On Tuesday, 8 August 2017 16:28:44 UTC-3, Mr. Luddite wrote:
An elderly friend has a 2013 Keystone Cougar fifth wheel that he and his
wife snowbird to Florida in during the winter. When he came back this
year the main control panel that controls slides, lights, displays
fresh, grey and black water levels, etc. stopped working. Doesn't even
light up like it's supposed to. He asked me if I had any ideas and,
being the friendly, helpful sort I offered to see if I could find the
problem.

Not that simple. For a couple of years Keystone made these panels using
a membrane type switch panel that transmits wirelessly to a "brain" in
one of the forward compartments. Worse, there are no manuals, wiring
diagrams or schematics for the system. Worse yet, they had so many
problems with this system that they no longer make it or support it.
Checked a few places on the Internet in hopes of finding some kind of
documentation and all I found was horror story after horror story of
people with this system. Some failed shortly after they bought the
fifth wheel and never worked again.

I realized it was wireless while checking some voltages. When I checked
in the area of the "brain" my digital meter would initially read
12.something volts but then start slowly climbing to as high as 18
volts. I thought the meter was bad but when checking voltages at the
other end of the fifth wheel where the control panel is, the readings
were rock solid. Then I noticed a strange wire going nowhere that came
out of the "brain" and realized it was an antenna. The whole system
operates wirelessly and my meter was being affected by the RF noise.

The manufacturer of the wireless system is of no help either. No
diagrams available, no schematics, no replacement PC boards (everything
is surface mount). They basically have disowned anything to do with
this system.

My friend contacted a third party supplier who said they can send a
"kit" to replace the main control panel - no wireing diagrams though and
but will not guarantee it will work and no returns. The kit is $500.

I wish I never offered to help him. Now I own the damn problem.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com


No good deed goes unpunished!

On Tuesday, August 8, 2017 at 5:42:59 PM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 8/8/2017 4:13 PM, justan wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" Wrote in message:

An elderly friend has a 2013 Keystone Cougar fifth wheel that he and his
wife snowbird to Florida in during the winter. When he came back this
year the main control panel that controls slides, lights, displays
fresh, grey and black water levels, etc. stopped working. Doesn't even
light up like it's supposed to. He asked me if I had any ideas and,
being the friendly, helpful sort I offered to see if I could find the
problem.

Not that simple. For a couple of years Keystone made these panels using
a membrane type switch panel that transmits wirelessly to a "brain" in
one of the forward compartments. Worse, there are no manuals, wiring
diagrams or schematics for the system. Worse yet, they had so many
problems with this system that they no longer make it or support it.
Checked a few places on the Internet in hopes of finding some kind of
documentation and all I found was horror story after horror story of
people with this system. Some failed shortly after they bought the
fifth wheel and never worked again.

I realized it was wireless while checking some voltages. When I checked
in the area of the "brain" my digital meter would initially read
12.something volts but then start slowly climbing to as high as 18
volts. I thought the meter was bad but when checking voltages at the
other end of the fifth wheel where the control panel is, the readings
were rock solid. Then I noticed a strange wire going nowhere that came
out of the "brain" and realized it was an antenna. The whole system
operates wirelessly and my meter was being affected by the RF noise.

The manufacturer of the wireless system is of no help either. No
diagrams available, no schematics, no replacement PC boards (everything
is surface mount). They basically have disowned anything to do with
this system.

My friend contacted a third party supplier who said they can send a
"kit" to replace the main control panel - no wireing diagrams though and
but will not guarantee it will work and no returns. The kit is $500.

I wish I never offered to help him. Now I own the damn problem.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com



Googled
it and came up with dead battery in remote. Also says it
wont work if you stray from front of 5th wheel.
There seems to be a lot of buzz about this problem on the internet.


Yeah, I found the thing about the batteries in the remote and how to
reset the whole system. Put new batteries in it and did the reset
procedure. No luck. Still no power on the control panel. I pulled the
panel out and checked the input voltage. It comes in on four pairs of
terminals and they all read 12.4 volts. There's a PC board in the panel
with a bunch of relays, logic chips and diodes on it. Everything is
double surface mount, so not designed to be worked on ... only replace
the whole board (which isn't made anymore).

The slides work with the remote, so that's most important as well as
some of the interior lights. There's a few more lights and the
redundant slide controls plus the input sensors from the three tanks so
the panel not working doesn't prevent them from using the rig.

Without any wiring diagrams, schematics or documentation of any kind
it's really Easter Egging as far as trying to troubleshoot.

I'm lucky. My slides, landing gear etc operate from individual switches. The tank lights show up on the 'display', but they've not worked since we got the rig anyway. That is a pretty common problem. I thought about searching for manuals, but it sounds like you,et al, have done all the searching that's to be done. He might try calling an RV 'junk yard' like one of those below to see if they might have it.

Johnson's Surplus
White Pigeon, MI • (269) 483-2249

Bontrager's Surplus Inc
White Pigeon, MI • (269) 483-7017

Wish him luck. Right now I'm soaking my hot water tank to remove a 'rotten egg' smell that I picked up at some campground. The book called for a solution of 4 parts vinegar to 2 parts water. But, it didn't say how much of the solution to make. Called the factory. Answer...make as much as the heater holds. So right now it's got 4 gallons of vinegar and 2 gallons of water in it. It needs to run for about 8 hours, and then get rinsed.

Hey, the camping life is rough!

On 8/8/2017 9:12 PM, justan wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" Wrote in message:
On 8/8/2017 4:13 PM, justan wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" Wrote in message:

An elderly friend has a 2013 Keystone Cougar fifth wheel that he and his
wife snowbird to Florida in during the winter. When he came back this
year the main control panel that controls slides, lights, displays
fresh, grey and black water levels, etc. stopped working. Doesn't even
light up like it's supposed to. He asked me if I had any ideas and,
being the friendly, helpful sort I offered to see if I could find the
problem.

Not that simple. For a couple of years Keystone made these panels using
a membrane type switch panel that transmits wirelessly to a "brain" in
one of the forward compartments. Worse, there are no manuals, wiring
diagrams or schematics for the system. Worse yet, they had so many
problems with this system that they no longer make it or support it.
Checked a few places on the Internet in hopes of finding some kind of
documentation and all I found was horror story after horror story of
people with this system. Some failed shortly after they bought the
fifth wheel and never worked again.

I realized it was wireless while checking some voltages. When I checked
in the area of the "brain" my digital meter would initially read
12.something volts but then start slowly climbing to as high as 18
volts. I thought the meter was bad but when checking voltages at the
other end of the fifth wheel where the control panel is, the readings
were rock solid. Then I noticed a strange wire going nowhere that came
out of the "brain" and realized it was an antenna. The whole system
operates wirelessly and my meter was being affected by the RF noise.

The manufacturer of the wireless system is of no help either. No
diagrams available, no schematics, no replacement PC boards (everything
is surface mount). They basically have disowned anything to do with
this system.

My friend contacted a third party supplier who said they can send a
"kit" to replace the main control panel - no wireing diagrams though and
but will not guarantee it will work and no returns. The kit is $500.

I wish I never offered to help him. Now I own the damn problem.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com



Googled
it and came up with dead battery in remote. Also says it
wont work if you stray from front of 5th wheel.
There seems to be a lot of buzz about this problem on the internet.


Yeah, I found the thing about the batteries in the remote and how to
reset the whole system. Put new batteries in it and did the reset
procedure. No luck. Still no power on the control panel. I pulled the
panel out and checked the input voltage. It comes in on four pairs of
terminals and they all read 12.4 volts. There's a PC board in the panel
with a bunch of relays, logic chips and diodes on it. Everything is
double surface mount, so not designed to be worked on ... only replace
the whole board (which isn't made anymore).

The slides work with the remote, so that's most important as well as
some of the interior lights. There's a few more lights and the
redundant slide controls plus the input sensors from the three tanks so
the panel not working doesn't prevent them from using the rig.

Without any wiring diagrams, schematics or documentation of any kind
it's really Easter Egging as far as trying to troubleshoot.


In that case encourage them to trade it or sell it outright


That's my plan. I am going to give it one more try at trying to
determine if anything other than what's on the PC board is preventing
the panel from even turning on. If no luck with that I will recommend
as you suggested. He already bought another camper that mounts in the
bed of his truck. He's been saying that his days of hauling a big fifth
wheel are coming to an end anyway. I'll suggest that he sell the
Cougar disclosing the control panel problem and adjust the selling price
accordingly. A new owner may be willing to invest more into it in terms
of getting it fixed. If the problem was simple that's one thing. But,
unless I stumble on something today, the problem isn't simple, as
evidenced by the experiences of others who have had this system and it's
problems.

Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 8/8/2017 9:12 PM, justan wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" Wrote in message:
On 8/8/2017 4:13 PM, justan wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" Wrote in message:

An elderly friend has a 2013 Keystone Cougar fifth wheel that he and his
wife snowbird to Florida in during the winter. When he came back this
year the main control panel that controls slides, lights, displays
fresh, grey and black water levels, etc. stopped working. Doesn't even
light up like it's supposed to. He asked me if I had any ideas and,
being the friendly, helpful sort I offered to see if I could find the
problem.

Not that simple. For a couple of years Keystone made these panels using
a membrane type switch panel that transmits wirelessly to a "brain" in
one of the forward compartments. Worse, there are no manuals, wiring
diagrams or schematics for the system. Worse yet, they had so many
problems with this system that they no longer make it or support it.
Checked a few places on the Internet in hopes of finding some kind of
documentation and all I found was horror story after horror story of
people with this system. Some failed shortly after they bought the
fifth wheel and never worked again.

I realized it was wireless while checking some voltages. When I checked
in the area of the "brain" my digital meter would initially read
12.something volts but then start slowly climbing to as high as 18
volts. I thought the meter was bad but when checking voltages at the
other end of the fifth wheel where the control panel is, the readings
were rock solid. Then I noticed a strange wire going nowhere that came
out of the "brain" and realized it was an antenna. The whole system
operates wirelessly and my meter was being affected by the RF noise.

The manufacturer of the wireless system is of no help either. No
diagrams available, no schematics, no replacement PC boards (everything
is surface mount). They basically have disowned anything to do with
this system.

My friend contacted a third party supplier who said they can send a
"kit" to replace the main control panel - no wireing diagrams though and
but will not guarantee it will work and no returns. The kit is $500.

I wish I never offered to help him. Now I own the damn problem.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com



Googled
it and came up with dead battery in remote. Also says it
wont work if you stray from front of 5th wheel.
There seems to be a lot of buzz about this problem on the internet.


Yeah, I found the thing about the batteries in the remote and how to
reset the whole system. Put new batteries in it and did the reset
procedure. No luck. Still no power on the control panel. I pulled the
panel out and checked the input voltage. It comes in on four pairs of
terminals and they all read 12.4 volts. There's a PC board in the panel
with a bunch of relays, logic chips and diodes on it. Everything is
double surface mount, so not designed to be worked on ... only replace
the whole board (which isn't made anymore).

The slides work with the remote, so that's most important as well as
some of the interior lights. There's a few more lights and the
redundant slide controls plus the input sensors from the three tanks so
the panel not working doesn't prevent them from using the rig.

Without any wiring diagrams, schematics or documentation of any kind
it's really Easter Egging as far as trying to troubleshoot.


In that case encourage them to trade it or sell it outright


That's my plan. I am going to give it one more try at trying to
determine if anything other than what's on the PC board is preventing
the panel from even turning on. If no luck with that I will recommend
as you suggested. He already bought another camper that mounts in the
bed of his truck. He's been saying that his days of hauling a big fifth
wheel are coming to an end anyway. I'll suggest that he sell the
Cougar disclosing the control panel problem and adjust the selling price
accordingly. A new owner may be willing to invest more into it in terms
of getting it fixed. If the problem was simple that's one thing. But,
unless I stumble on something today, the problem isn't simple, as
evidenced by the experiences of others who have had this system and it's
problems.


The motors for the slides have to be similar to John's or anybody else's
these days. Just the control panel different. Could probably just replace
the panel with a modern one with switches. Tracing the wires might be a
pain, but a $30 tracer from Lowes, etc. should do the job.

On 8/9/2017 10:35 AM, Bill wrote:
Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 8/8/2017 9:12 PM, justan wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" Wrote in message:
On 8/8/2017 4:13 PM, justan wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" Wrote in message:

An elderly friend has a 2013 Keystone Cougar fifth wheel that he and his
wife snowbird to Florida in during the winter. When he came back this
year the main control panel that controls slides, lights, displays
fresh, grey and black water levels, etc. stopped working. Doesn't even
light up like it's supposed to. He asked me if I had any ideas and,
being the friendly, helpful sort I offered to see if I could find the
problem.

Not that simple. For a couple of years Keystone made these panels using
a membrane type switch panel that transmits wirelessly to a "brain" in
one of the forward compartments. Worse, there are no manuals, wiring
diagrams or schematics for the system. Worse yet, they had so many
problems with this system that they no longer make it or support it.
Checked a few places on the Internet in hopes of finding some kind of
documentation and all I found was horror story after horror story of
people with this system. Some failed shortly after they bought the
fifth wheel and never worked again.

I realized it was wireless while checking some voltages. When I checked
in the area of the "brain" my digital meter would initially read
12.something volts but then start slowly climbing to as high as 18
volts. I thought the meter was bad but when checking voltages at the
other end of the fifth wheel where the control panel is, the readings
were rock solid. Then I noticed a strange wire going nowhere that came
out of the "brain" and realized it was an antenna. The whole system
operates wirelessly and my meter was being affected by the RF noise.

The manufacturer of the wireless system is of no help either. No
diagrams available, no schematics, no replacement PC boards (everything
is surface mount). They basically have disowned anything to do with
this system.

My friend contacted a third party supplier who said they can send a
"kit" to replace the main control panel - no wireing diagrams though and
but will not guarantee it will work and no returns. The kit is $500.

I wish I never offered to help him. Now I own the damn problem.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com



Googled
it and came up with dead battery in remote. Also says it
wont work if you stray from front of 5th wheel.
There seems to be a lot of buzz about this problem on the internet.


Yeah, I found the thing about the batteries in the remote and how to
reset the whole system. Put new batteries in it and did the reset
procedure. No luck. Still no power on the control panel. I pulled the
panel out and checked the input voltage. It comes in on four pairs of
terminals and they all read 12.4 volts. There's a PC board in the panel
with a bunch of relays, logic chips and diodes on it. Everything is
double surface mount, so not designed to be worked on ... only replace
the whole board (which isn't made anymore).

The slides work with the remote, so that's most important as well as
some of the interior lights. There's a few more lights and the
redundant slide controls plus the input sensors from the three tanks so
the panel not working doesn't prevent them from using the rig.

Without any wiring diagrams, schematics or documentation of any kind
it's really Easter Egging as far as trying to troubleshoot.


In that case encourage them to trade it or sell it outright


That's my plan. I am going to give it one more try at trying to
determine if anything other than what's on the PC board is preventing
the panel from even turning on. If no luck with that I will recommend
as you suggested. He already bought another camper that mounts in the
bed of his truck. He's been saying that his days of hauling a big fifth
wheel are coming to an end anyway. I'll suggest that he sell the
Cougar disclosing the control panel problem and adjust the selling price
accordingly. A new owner may be willing to invest more into it in terms
of getting it fixed. If the problem was simple that's one thing. But,
unless I stumble on something today, the problem isn't simple, as
evidenced by the experiences of others who have had this system and it's
problems.


The motors for the slides have to be similar to John's or anybody else's
these days. Just the control panel different. Could probably just replace
the panel with a modern one with switches. Tracing the wires might be a
pain, but a $30 tracer from Lowes, etc. should do the job.


He can operate the slides with the remote control. It's just some
lights, maybe a roof fan and the displays for the three tanks that don't
work.

On Wed, 9 Aug 2017 07:27:05 -0600 (MDT), justan wrote:

John H Wrote in message:
On Tuesday, August 8, 2017 at 5:42:59 PM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 8/8/2017 4:13 PM, justan wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" Wrote in message:

An elderly friend has a 2013 Keystone Cougar fifth wheel that he and his
wife snowbird to Florida in during the winter. When he came back this
year the main control panel that controls slides, lights, displays
fresh, grey and black water levels, etc. stopped working. Doesn't even
light up like it's supposed to. He asked me if I had any ideas and,
being the friendly, helpful sort I offered to see if I could find the
problem.

Not that simple. For a couple of years Keystone made these panels using
a membrane type switch panel that transmits wirelessly to a "brain" in
one of the forward compartments. Worse, there are no manuals, wiring
diagrams or schematics for the system. Worse yet, they had so many
problems with this system that they no longer make it or support it.
Checked a few places on the Internet in hopes of finding some kind of
documentation and all I found was horror story after horror story of
people with this system. Some failed shortly after they bought the
fifth wheel and never worked again.

I realized it was wireless while checking some voltages. When I checked
in the area of the "brain" my digital meter would initially read
12.something volts but then start slowly climbing to as high as 18
volts. I thought the meter was bad but when checking voltages at the
other end of the fifth wheel where the control panel is, the readings
were rock solid. Then I noticed a strange wire going nowhere that came
out of the "brain" and realized it was an antenna. The whole system
operates wirelessly and my meter was being affected by the RF noise.

The manufacturer of the wireless system is of no help either. No
diagrams available, no schematics, no replacement PC boards (everything
is surface mount). They basically have disowned anything to do with
this system.

My friend contacted a third party supplier who said they can send a
"kit" to replace the main control panel - no wireing diagrams though and
but will not guarantee it will work and no returns. The kit is $500.

I wish I never offered to help him. Now I own the damn problem.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com



Googled
it and came up with dead battery in remote. Also says it
wont work if you stray from front of 5th wheel.
There seems to be a lot of buzz about this problem on the internet.


Yeah, I found the thing about the batteries in the remote and how to
reset the whole system. Put new batteries in it and did the reset
procedure. No luck. Still no power on the control panel. I pulled the
panel out and checked the input voltage. It comes in on four pairs of
terminals and they all read 12.4 volts. There's a PC board in the panel
with a bunch of relays, logic chips and diodes on it. Everything is
double surface mount, so not designed to be worked on ... only replace
the whole board (which isn't made anymore).

The slides work with the remote, so that's most important as well as
some of the interior lights. There's a few more lights and the
redundant slide controls plus the input sensors from the three tanks so
the panel not working doesn't prevent them from using the rig.

Without any wiring diagrams, schematics or documentation of any kind
it's really Easter Egging as far as trying to troubleshoot.

I'm lucky. My slides, landing gear etc operate from individual switches. The tank lights show up on the 'display', but they've not worked since we got the rig anyway. That is a pretty common problem. I thought about searching for manuals, but it sounds like you,et al, have done all the searching that's to be done. He might try calling an RV 'junk yard' like one of those below to see if they might have it.

Johnson's Surplus
White Pigeon, MI ? (269) 483-2249

Bontrager's Surplus Inc
White Pigeon, MI ? (269) 483-7017

Wish him luck. Right now I'm soaking my hot water tank to remove a 'rotten egg' smell that I picked up at some campground. The book called for a solution of 4 parts vinegar to 2 parts water. But, it didn't say how much of the solution to make. Called the factory. Answer...make as much as the heater holds. So right now it's got 4 gallons of vinegar and 2 gallons of water in it. It needs to run for about 8 hours, and then get rinsed.

Hey, the camping life is rough!



Filter your water before it goes in the tank. Make sure the anode
isn't rotted away if there is one. Hook up to the city water and
use it before you decide to fill your tank with it. Sanitize the
tank and lines a couple of times a year with bleach. When you get
home from a trip drain the tank and heater and refill with your
own good water. Remember that your house water might need to be
flushed for a while after sitting while you're gone.

I do filter it first, and the anode was only about 25% used up. I checked the book to find the
anode, and couldn't find it. My dealer had talked me into putting a new drain plug in the tank which
had an anode and a petcock for easy draining. When I couldn't find a part number for the anode, I
called the factory. The technician said 'NO, NO' there should 'NOT' be an anode in there. He blamed
the smell on the use of the anode in that tank. Sure enough, I looked it up on Google and came
across this:

"The most common cause of smelly water is anaerobic bacteria that exist in some water and react with
sulfur and the magnesium and aluminum sacrificial anodes that come with most water heaters to
produce hydrogen sulfide gas, making the classic rotten egg odor."

Also, he said 'no bleach'...vinegar was the thing to use in the hot water heater. I use a bit of
bleach in the fresh water tank, as that's what my book calls for. About 1/2 cup to 15 gallons water.
Let that slosh for a trip, run it through the lines, drain it and run fresh water through the lines
for a bit.

On Wed, 9 Aug 2017 14:35:52 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote:

Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 8/8/2017 9:12 PM, justan wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" Wrote in message:
On 8/8/2017 4:13 PM, justan wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" Wrote in message:

An elderly friend has a 2013 Keystone Cougar fifth wheel that he and his
wife snowbird to Florida in during the winter. When he came back this
year the main control panel that controls slides, lights, displays
fresh, grey and black water levels, etc. stopped working. Doesn't even
light up like it's supposed to. He asked me if I had any ideas and,
being the friendly, helpful sort I offered to see if I could find the
problem.

Not that simple. For a couple of years Keystone made these panels using
a membrane type switch panel that transmits wirelessly to a "brain" in
one of the forward compartments. Worse, there are no manuals, wiring
diagrams or schematics for the system. Worse yet, they had so many
problems with this system that they no longer make it or support it.
Checked a few places on the Internet in hopes of finding some kind of
documentation and all I found was horror story after horror story of
people with this system. Some failed shortly after they bought the
fifth wheel and never worked again.

I realized it was wireless while checking some voltages. When I checked
in the area of the "brain" my digital meter would initially read
12.something volts but then start slowly climbing to as high as 18
volts. I thought the meter was bad but when checking voltages at the
other end of the fifth wheel where the control panel is, the readings
were rock solid. Then I noticed a strange wire going nowhere that came
out of the "brain" and realized it was an antenna. The whole system
operates wirelessly and my meter was being affected by the RF noise.

The manufacturer of the wireless system is of no help either. No
diagrams available, no schematics, no replacement PC boards (everything
is surface mount). They basically have disowned anything to do with
this system.

My friend contacted a third party supplier who said they can send a
"kit" to replace the main control panel - no wireing diagrams though and
but will not guarantee it will work and no returns. The kit is $500.

I wish I never offered to help him. Now I own the damn problem.

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Googled
it and came up with dead battery in remote. Also says it
wont work if you stray from front of 5th wheel.
There seems to be a lot of buzz about this problem on the internet.


Yeah, I found the thing about the batteries in the remote and how to
reset the whole system. Put new batteries in it and did the reset
procedure. No luck. Still no power on the control panel. I pulled the
panel out and checked the input voltage. It comes in on four pairs of
terminals and they all read 12.4 volts. There's a PC board in the panel
with a bunch of relays, logic chips and diodes on it. Everything is
double surface mount, so not designed to be worked on ... only replace
the whole board (which isn't made anymore).

The slides work with the remote, so that's most important as well as
some of the interior lights. There's a few more lights and the
redundant slide controls plus the input sensors from the three tanks so
the panel not working doesn't prevent them from using the rig.

Without any wiring diagrams, schematics or documentation of any kind
it's really Easter Egging as far as trying to troubleshoot.


In that case encourage them to trade it or sell it outright


That's my plan. I am going to give it one more try at trying to
determine if anything other than what's on the PC board is preventing
the panel from even turning on. If no luck with that I will recommend
as you suggested. He already bought another camper that mounts in the
bed of his truck. He's been saying that his days of hauling a big fifth
wheel are coming to an end anyway. I'll suggest that he sell the
Cougar disclosing the control panel problem and adjust the selling price
accordingly. A new owner may be willing to invest more into it in terms
of getting it fixed. If the problem was simple that's one thing. But,
unless I stumble on something today, the problem isn't simple, as
evidenced by the experiences of others who have had this system and it's
problems.


The motors for the slides have to be similar to John's or anybody else's
these days. Just the control panel different. Could probably just replace
the panel with a modern one with switches. Tracing the wires might be a
pain, but a $30 tracer from Lowes, etc. should do the job.

Probably different from mine. The Open Range has a cable slide system. The motors are on top of the
slides, operate a couple chains which pull cables back and forth to open/close the slide.