Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
 

wrote:
On Monday, February 16, 2015 at 7:08:10 PM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/16/2015 6:31 PM, wrote:
On Monday, February 16, 2015 at 12:25:26 PM UTC-5, John H. wrote:

The big difference between simulators/real airplanes and RC airplanes - in sims or
real planes, the nose of the plane is in front of you. With an RC plane, at least
part of the time, the nose is pointed at you. That means the left and right controls
are reversed. This, I believe, is what causes the most problems, at least for me.

Another related difference is that pilots in a real plane has a seat of
the pants, first person view. Not so with RC.

Something that helps newbies to RC is that when the airplane is flying
towards you and the controls are reversed, your can turn your body so
the transmitter is faced the same way as the plane, but look back over
your shoulder at the plane. That way the stick moves to the right, the
plane moves to the right. It's a crutch, but with some more stick time
it'll come naturally.



I don't think there's much at all in common comparing RC flying and
flying a real airplane. Speed scale is totally different. Turns
and maneuvers are not anything close to being realistic to flying an
airplane.

I see it as a fun hobby for many but to compare it to actually flying
an airplane it isn't even close.

If you think about it, it's very similar. The same rules apply, the
aircraft reacts the same way. RC planes can do things that real planes
can't, but they also suffer from the fact that they don't fly quite the
same way. Said another way, the air molecules are still the same size,
while the wings and control surfaces of RC planes are far smaller.
That's why truly scale RC planes don't tend to fly very well.

Good RC pilots can fly very realistically. I saw a jet done up in Fed-Ex
colors being flown slowly and with coordinated turns. It looked very
real, except for the size, although it was still large with about a 10 foot wingspan.

But while you may have not meant it, your attitude is common with "real"
pilots. They think of RC planes as toys. And they crash them when they
first try to fly them, thinking that if they can fly the real thing, they
can fly the toy. They cannot. :)

Real pilots hope to walk away from a crash. RC pilots walk towards it!

The airplanes do not react the same way. Lots more mass and leverage
differences in a real airplane.

Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
 

"Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 2/16/2015 6:31 PM, wrote:
On Monday, February 16, 2015 at 12:25:26 PM UTC-5, John H. wrote:

The big difference between simulators/real airplanes and RC airplanes - in sims or
real planes, the nose of the plane is in front of you. With an RC plane, at least
part of the time, the nose is pointed at you. That means the left and right controls
are reversed. This, I believe, is what causes the most problems, at least for me.

Another related difference is that pilots in a real plane has a seat of
the pants, first person view. Not so with RC.

Something that helps newbies to RC is that when the airplane is flying
towards you and the controls are reversed, your can turn your body so
the transmitter is faced the same way as the plane, but look back over
your shoulder at the plane. That way the stick moves to the right, the
plane moves to the right. It's a crutch, but with some more stick time
it'll come naturally.



I don't think there's much at all in common comparing RC flying and
flying a real airplane. Speed scale is totally different. Turns
and maneuvers are not anything close to being realistic to flying an
airplane.

I see it as a fun hobby for many but to compare it to actually flying
an airplane it isn't even close.

I have flown PC flight simulators and have an hour in a 3 axis 707
simulator. The 707 was Western Airlines simulator. Totally different
animals. Biggest problem flying a real simulator that acts just like a
real airplane. Is response times. MS simulator you move the stick the
plane turns quickly, and responds quickly. Real airline plane has mass and
momentum. You have to plan ahead and turn to stop the turn before the turn
is complete.

Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
 

On 2/17/15 5:22 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/17/2015 5:10 PM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 2/17/15 4:37 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/17/2015 12:25 PM, Abit Loco wrote:
On Mon, 16 Feb 2015 20:18:55 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/16/2015 7:54 PM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 2/16/15 7:08 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/16/2015 6:31 PM, wrote:
On Monday, February 16, 2015 at 12:25:26 PM UTC-5, John H. wrote:

The big difference between simulators/real airplanes and RC
airplanes
- in sims or
real planes, the nose of the plane is in front of you. With an RC
plane, at least
part of the time, the nose is pointed at you. That means the left
and
right controls
are reversed. This, I believe, is what causes the most
problems, at
least for me.

Another related difference is that pilots in a real plane has a
seat
of the pants, first person view. Not so with RC.

Something that helps newbies to RC is that when the airplane is
flying
towards you and the controls are reversed, your can turn your
body so
the transmitter is faced the same way as the plane, but look back
over
your shoulder at the plane. That way the stick moves to the right,
the plane moves to the right. It's a crutch, but with some more
stick
time it'll come naturally.



I don't think there's much at all in common comparing RC flying and
flying a real airplane. Speed scale is totally different. Turns
and maneuvers are not anything close to being realistic to flying an
airplane.

I see it as a fun hobby for many but to compare it to actually
flying
an airplane it isn't even close.



What happens when your toy plane crashes? It breaks.
What happens when a real airplane crashes? Death and destruction.





True.

I've seen some large RC planes that appear to be very realistic in
flight, maneuvers, take-offs and landings but the smaller ones I've
seen people flying are way out of scale to anything real. They can
do turns, climbs, etc. that would cause a human pilot to pass out
or worse.

The bigger ones fly slower, maneuver more slowly and look much more
realistic.

The smaller ones, depending on the configuration, can fly slower,
maneuver more
slowly and also look very realistic. My Apprentice, with its
tremendous wing area,
can stay aloft at little more than a walking speed.

Something like this, on the other hand, requires some speed just to
stay aloft.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=uN5BD4e55hE

I am not knocking those who enjoy the RC hobby thing. I just don't
think you can come close to comparing it to actual flying.



Why not? Granted, you're not in the airplane, but other than that
what's the big
difference?

Well, I've done both. Again I am not knocking your RC hobby but you
really cannot compare the two. Like I suggested in a different post,
go take an introductory flight lesson. Then you can compare for
yourself.





This is really funny stuff...thanks, Luddite. :) And remember, driving
that RC boat in a swimming pool is just like driving a real boat through
a ferocious inlet. I mean, what's the difference?



This is a common debate between RC pilots and those who hold a pilot's
license. Like I said before I don't knock those to enjoy the RC thing.
It's fun for many but it's a totally different experience.
Sure, there are similarities in the respect that both have wings
and go up in the air. But that's about it.

I did all of my flight instruction in a Cessna 152. After I soloed I
flew the 152 and a 150 quite a bit. I did the cross country phase and
final check flight for my ticket in a Cessna 172. All the Cessna's were
high winged aircraft.

After a while I wanted to try something different, so I arranged for a
checkout flight in a Piper Warrior which is more powerful and low
winged. Felt like I was flying a Boeing 747 by comparison.

That all said, I am glad I did it but I also realized I am not a
"natural" pilot who enjoys the stresses of flying. I like boating much
more.



When I worked for the teachers union, I got to fly around a bit in one
of its regional airplanes, a King Air. I remember once the pilot let me
sit in the second chair while he was landing at LaGuardia. If I had any
thought of taking flying lessons, that experience changed my mind. Too
much going on with the plane, the radio, other traffic, et cetera. I'm
sure flying a model plane is "just as difficult."


--
Proud to be a Liberal.

Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
 

On 2/17/15 5:58 PM, Abit Loco wrote:
On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 16:34:20 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/17/2015 12:16 PM, Abit Loco wrote:
On Mon, 16 Feb 2015 19:54:29 -0500, Keyser Söze wrote:

On 2/16/15 7:08 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/16/2015 6:31 PM, wrote:
On Monday, February 16, 2015 at 12:25:26 PM UTC-5, John H. wrote:

The big difference between simulators/real airplanes and RC airplanes
- in sims or
real planes, the nose of the plane is in front of you. With an RC
plane, at least
part of the time, the nose is pointed at you. That means the left and
right controls
are reversed. This, I believe, is what causes the most problems, at
least for me.

Another related difference is that pilots in a real plane has a seat
of the pants, first person view. Not so with RC.

Something that helps newbies to RC is that when the airplane is flying
towards you and the controls are reversed, your can turn your body so
the transmitter is faced the same way as the plane, but look back over
your shoulder at the plane. That way the stick moves to the right,
the plane moves to the right. It's a crutch, but with some more stick
time it'll come naturally.



I don't think there's much at all in common comparing RC flying and
flying a real airplane. Speed scale is totally different. Turns
and maneuvers are not anything close to being realistic to flying an
airplane.

I see it as a fun hobby for many but to compare it to actually flying
an airplane it isn't even close.



What happens when your toy plane crashes? It breaks.
What happens when a real airplane crashes? Death and destruction.

And that, my friends, is the big difference!



The chances of you crashing a real airplane are pretty slim compared to
crashing a RC. First of all, while under instruction your CFI isn't
keen on crashing. By the time you are ready to solo you will be well
qualified in the eyes of your instructor.

When you consider the number of people taking flight lessons every day
across the country and the number of small aircraft pilots flying every
day, the safety record is pretty high and the number of crashes are low.


Have you ever 'buddy-boxed' with an RC instructor pilot? While under instruction, the
instructor isn't keen on you ruining your airplane. He has a switch which immediately
gives him control of the aircraft if he thinks trouble is approaching.



Well, *of course* *That* makes it just like flying a real plane.

--
Proud to be a Liberal.

Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
 

On 2/17/2015 6:05 PM, Abit Loco wrote:
On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 16:28:55 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/17/2015 12:16 PM, Abit Loco wrote:
On Mon, 16 Feb 2015 19:08:08 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/16/2015 6:31 PM, wrote:
On Monday, February 16, 2015 at 12:25:26 PM UTC-5, John H. wrote:

The big difference between simulators/real airplanes and RC airplanes - in sims or
real planes, the nose of the plane is in front of you. With an RC plane, at least
part of the time, the nose is pointed at you. That means the left and right controls
are reversed. This, I believe, is what causes the most problems, at least for me.

Another related difference is that pilots in a real plane has a seat of the pants, first person view. Not so with RC.

Something that helps newbies to RC is that when the airplane is flying towards you and the controls are reversed, your can turn your body so the transmitter is faced the same way as the plane, but look back over your shoulder at the plane. That way the stick moves to the right, the plane moves to the right. It's a crutch, but with some more stick time it'll come naturally.



I don't think there's much at all in common comparing RC flying and
flying a real airplane. Speed scale is totally different. Turns
and maneuvers are not anything close to being realistic to flying an
airplane.

I see it as a fun hobby for many but to compare it to actually flying
an airplane it isn't even close.


Many of the airplanes flown at our field fly in excess of 100mph - and that's
measured by radar.

One of our guys has one of these:
http://www.modelairplanenews.com/blo...ini-radar-gun/

They measure real speed, not scale speed.

Since I've never flown a real airplane, I can't argue your 'turns and maneuvers'
statement. I know that if I bank my airplane using the ailerons and don't give it
some up elevator, it will head for the dirt. Perhaps you could tell us what the big
differences are.

I'm thinking the biggest difference is that my crash isn't going to kill anyone. Oh,
and my pre-flight checklist is shorter!


An introductory flight lesson is cheap. Used to be about $50 for a half
hour but maybe it's gone up now.

If the CFI is halfway comfortable with how you follow directions, he'll
let you taxi, take off and "fly the pattern". He'll land it although he
may let you think you did.

Do that and then come back and tell me how similar RC flying is to
actually flying a real aircraft. You may be surprised. Flying a
real airplane might be simpler.


Geezie Pete - this is getting you wrapped around an axle, isn't it.

While in Vietnam I was lucky enough to go up in an OV-10 for a three hour flight. The
pilot was nice enough to let me fly the plane for about a half hour after flying our
missions.

There are a lot of similarities, especially in the controls. Pulling the stick back
on the OV-10 does the same thing as pulling the stick back on the RC xmtr. And, not
giving the plane some throttle when doing so could cause a stall - as the OV-10 pilot
told me. Only his words were, "Do you want to crash?" Me, "No". Him, "Well you'd
better give it some throttle."

There were a tremendous number of similarities.

Was it the same as flying an RC aircraft? Hell no. But, it was a tad more difficult
than steering a train.



Not me getting wrapped around an axle. You are the one who thinks
flying RC airplanes is like flying a real one.

So you took the controls of an airplane after it took off and was flying
straight and level. I did that when I was 10 years old with a pilot
friend of my father.

Try "the hood". The hood is a device that you wear that limits your
field of view to the inside of the airplane only. All you can see is
the instruments. Your instructor will take control of the airplane and
put it in an unusual attitude meaning it may be banked over and
descending or in a banked climb nearing stall. He'll then say, "Your
plane" and you learn to recover using instruments only with no ground
reference. When you are in a banked turn, you can't tell by the seat
of your pants. The airplane could be standing on one wing tip and you
wouldn't know other than by instruments.

Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
 

On 2/17/2015 6:09 PM, Abit Loco wrote:
On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 16:48:31 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/17/2015 12:59 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 12:44:43 -0500, Abit Loco
wrote:

You keep saying its not similar to actual flying. How do the control surfaces behave
differently? What is the power to weight ration of the 'real' airplanes to which you
refer? Do RC airplanes have a lot more power to weight? Less?

When you are flying a real plane, you feel the surfaces reacting in
the seat of your pants


Heh. You feel a hell of a lot more than that. Take off on a windy day
with a lot of turbulence. Better yet, try landing under the same
conditions with a stiff crosswind.


The effect is the same on an RC plane.


Bull****. Sorry.

Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
 

On 2/17/15 5:53 PM, John H wrote:
On Tuesday, February 17, 2015 at 2:10:28 PM UTC-5, Keyser Söze wrote:
Abit Loco wrote:
On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 10:38:25 -0800 (PST), wrote:

Oh, and I agree with you about how similar flying RC and full scale
really is. I've said it before, but with RC you lose the 1st person,
seat of the pants experience that full scale pilots have. But the
wings, rudder, elevator, ailerons, vertical and horizontal stabilizers
all do the same exact things on RC as they do with full scale aircraft.
The biggest difference is where the pilots are, in respect to their
planes, while manipulating the controls.

And, weather and turbulence can definitely play a part in RC flying!

Wow...glad I skipped the last 30 or so posts on toy planes. Y-a-w-n.
--
Sent from my iPhone 6+

Yeah, I'll be the first to admit they weren't sexually oriented, anti-Christian, anti-Republican, anti-Palin, or just plain anti-social. Very boring stuff.


If you were more "sexually oriented," you might be having sex instead of
playing with a toy airplane. And I would never accuse you of being a
Christian.

--
Proud to be a Liberal.

Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
 

Abit Loco wrote:
On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 15:29:23 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Tuesday, February 17, 2015 at 4:37:37 PM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/17/2015 12:25 PM, Abit Loco wrote:
On Mon, 16 Feb 2015 20:18:55 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/16/2015 7:54 PM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 2/16/15 7:08 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/16/2015 6:31 PM, wrote:
On Monday, February 16, 2015 at 12:25:26 PM UTC-5, John H. wrote:

The big difference between simulators/real airplanes and RC airplanes
- in sims or
real planes, the nose of the plane is in front of you. With an RC
plane, at least
part of the time, the nose is pointed at you. That means the left and
right controls
are reversed. This, I believe, is what causes the most problems, at
least for me.

Another related difference is that pilots in a real plane has a seat
of the pants, first person view. Not so with RC.

Something that helps newbies to RC is that when the airplane is flying
towards you and the controls are reversed, your can turn your body so
the transmitter is faced the same way as the plane, but look back over
your shoulder at the plane. That way the stick moves to the right,
the plane moves to the right. It's a crutch, but with some more stick
time it'll come naturally.



I don't think there's much at all in common comparing RC flying and
flying a real airplane. Speed scale is totally different. Turns
and maneuvers are not anything close to being realistic to flying an
airplane.

I see it as a fun hobby for many but to compare it to actually flying
an airplane it isn't even close.



What happens when your toy plane crashes? It breaks.
What happens when a real airplane crashes? Death and destruction.





True.

I've seen some large RC planes that appear to be very realistic in
flight, maneuvers, take-offs and landings but the smaller ones I've
seen people flying are way out of scale to anything real. They can
do turns, climbs, etc. that would cause a human pilot to pass out
or worse.

The bigger ones fly slower, maneuver more slowly and look much more
realistic.

The smaller ones, depending on the configuration, can fly slower, maneuver more
slowly and also look very realistic. My Apprentice, with its tremendous wing area,
can stay aloft at little more than a walking speed.

Something like this, on the other hand, requires some speed just to stay aloft.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=uN5BD4e55hE

I am not knocking those who enjoy the RC hobby thing. I just don't
think you can come close to comparing it to actual flying.



Why not? Granted, you're not in the airplane, but other than that what's the big
difference?

Well, I've done both. Again I am not knocking your RC hobby but you
really cannot compare the two. Like I suggested in a different post,
go take an introductory flight lesson. Then you can compare for yourself.

So have I. Haven't landed a full scale, but have flown a 150, and been
up in a 182, Beechcraft Bonanza (regular and V tail) and Baron, and a
Zlin for some aerobatics. A little stick time in most. Funny, the
plane reacted pretty much the same to control inputs as any other plane, RC or full scale.

But you were correct in your other post. Full scale is easier to *fly*.
All of the procedural stuff and instruments are much more involved, but
the mechanics of flight are the *same*. Except RC lacks the seat of the
pants and FPV input that full scale pilots enjoy.

You're projecting the arrogance that typical full scale pilots exhibit.
The jokes about that are endless! I've also spent lots of time in
airport ramp towers, pilots lounges, and major airline OCCs (operational
control centers). I know a good bit about that. :)

Betcha none of those 'real' pilots are as arrogant as an Army Warrant Officer
helicopter pilot!

I turned down that job opportunity. Army offered me that when I was
finishing up AF training at Keesler AFB. Told the sarg that 1965 was not a
good year to fly choppers. Funny thing, I do not ever think I saw pilots
in the control tower in my times there. I was originally trained on ILS
systems. So we spent time in the tower where a lot of our controls were,
and my Captain was not allowed to go.

Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
 

On 2/17/2015 6:11 PM, Abit Loco wrote:
On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 14:47:49 -0800 (PST), True North wrote:

I'm not sure it's a good idea to encourage Johnny to try real flying.
If he has half the problems with a real plane as he does with his toy versions....Lord help the local folk.

You have to admit, it's kind of fun watching Krause and Eriksson 'gang up' on Herring
over something so ridiculous.

What a laugh!


Ganging up?

I told you that I am not knocking your RC flying hobby. It's fun for many.

You are the one who is trying to convince me and others that flying a RC
airplane is similar to real flying.

Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
 

On 2/17/15 6:06 PM, Abit Loco wrote:
On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 16:37:36 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/17/2015 12:25 PM, Abit Loco wrote:
On Mon, 16 Feb 2015 20:18:55 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/16/2015 7:54 PM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 2/16/15 7:08 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/16/2015 6:31 PM, wrote:
On Monday, February 16, 2015 at 12:25:26 PM UTC-5, John H. wrote:

The big difference between simulators/real airplanes and RC airplanes
- in sims or
real planes, the nose of the plane is in front of you. With an RC
plane, at least
part of the time, the nose is pointed at you. That means the left and
right controls
are reversed. This, I believe, is what causes the most problems, at
least for me.

Another related difference is that pilots in a real plane has a seat
of the pants, first person view. Not so with RC.

Something that helps newbies to RC is that when the airplane is flying
towards you and the controls are reversed, your can turn your body so
the transmitter is faced the same way as the plane, but look back over
your shoulder at the plane. That way the stick moves to the right,
the plane moves to the right. It's a crutch, but with some more stick
time it'll come naturally.



I don't think there's much at all in common comparing RC flying and
flying a real airplane. Speed scale is totally different. Turns
and maneuvers are not anything close to being realistic to flying an
airplane.

I see it as a fun hobby for many but to compare it to actually flying
an airplane it isn't even close.



What happens when your toy plane crashes? It breaks.
What happens when a real airplane crashes? Death and destruction.





True.

I've seen some large RC planes that appear to be very realistic in
flight, maneuvers, take-offs and landings but the smaller ones I've
seen people flying are way out of scale to anything real. They can
do turns, climbs, etc. that would cause a human pilot to pass out
or worse.

The bigger ones fly slower, maneuver more slowly and look much more
realistic.

The smaller ones, depending on the configuration, can fly slower, maneuver more
slowly and also look very realistic. My Apprentice, with its tremendous wing area,
can stay aloft at little more than a walking speed.

Something like this, on the other hand, requires some speed just to stay aloft.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=uN5BD4e55hE

I am not knocking those who enjoy the RC hobby thing. I just don't
think you can come close to comparing it to actual flying.



Why not? Granted, you're not in the airplane, but other than that what's the big
difference?

Well, I've done both. Again I am not knocking your RC hobby but you
really cannot compare the two. Like I suggested in a different post,
go take an introductory flight lesson. Then you can compare for yourself.


So have I, and the two can be compared. They are much different, but they can be
compared.



Masturbation and sex with a woman can be compared. Which would you
prefer...playing with your hand or flying a real woman.

--
Proud to be a Liberal.