Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
 

On 2/17/15 11:49 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 20:41:57 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:

What the heck would you know about driving a *real* boat through a
ferocious inlet? Really.

Maybe he took a 16' boat out of Deale
That can be exciting on a windy day.


Sorry, Gregster, never had a 16 footer up here. Smallest was a
19-footer. No ferocious inlets up here, either. Why are you commenting
about inlets, when your boating is done on a flat-calm swamp in a beat
up old pontoon boat that looks like a prop from Duck Dynasty?

--
Proud to be a Liberal.

Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
 

On 2/18/15 1:34 AM, wrote:
On Wed, 18 Feb 2015 00:27:01 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 23:49:35 -0500, wrote:

On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 20:41:57 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:

What the heck would you know about driving a *real* boat through a
ferocious inlet? Really.

Maybe he took a 16' boat out of Deale
That can be exciting on a windy day.

===

I think the biggest boat that harry has actually owned was the 24 ft
Parker. Not a bad boat for the Chesapeake on a moderately calm day
but not my choice for going offshore any distance. Apparently the
fuel burn on the 24 was too much for him as I recall.

He had a buck and a half Yamaha as I recall. My neighbor has a new one
and he says it is a lot better on gas than the 115 4s Merc.
I am not sure if that was the same motor Harry had tho.

As for the boat, a 24 should be fine in the bay. I used to fish on a
22.2 Aquasport all the time and we ran from Scheibels down to a ledge
20 miles south of Tangier most of the time. It wasn't a bad ride.

The little 16' had, not so much ;-)



I had a 225 Yammy on a 25' Parker that weighed 3-1/2 tons and was
suitable for reasonable offshore work. Later had a 150 Yammy on a 21'
deep vee that was also suitable for reasonable offshore work. When we
lived in Florida and I had an 18' center console boat, we'd often go 20
miles offshore to fish some wrecks.

There are plenty of guys who fish the Bay here in 16' boats. Perhaps you
simply didn't have the balls or back for it.

--
Proud to be a Liberal.

Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
 

On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 21:10:41 -0500, Wayne.B wrote:

On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 12:16:06 -0500, Abit Loco
wrote:

Since I've never flown a real airplane, I can't argue your 'turns and maneuvers'
statement. I know that if I bank my airplane using the ailerons and don't give it
some up elevator, it will head for the dirt. Perhaps you could tell us what the big
differences are.

===

In a real plane you initiate a turn by briefly banking the plane with
the ailerons and giving it a momentary touch of rudder in the desired
direction. The plane will stay banked and continue to turn until you
reverse the process. And yes, you do need to pull back on the stick or
yoke a bit to maintain altitude. Does a model behave the same way?

More or less. I use my rudder very little, unless there's a side wind. But a little
up elevator is a necessity to maintain the same altitude.
--

Guns don't cause problems. The behavior
of certain gun owners causes problems.

Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
 

On 2/18/2015 7:12 AM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 2/17/15 11:49 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 20:41:57 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:

What the heck would you know about driving a *real* boat through a
ferocious inlet? Really.

Maybe he took a 16' boat out of Deale
That can be exciting on a windy day.


Sorry, Gregster, never had a 16 footer up here. Smallest was a
19-footer. No ferocious inlets up here, either. Why are you commenting
about inlets, when your boating is done on a flat-calm swamp in a beat
up old pontoon boat that looks like a prop from Duck Dynasty?

Extending your olive branch again Krauster?
Oh, my tag line below could never be more appropriate, eh krauseberg?

--

Respectfully submitted by Justan

Laugh of the day from Krause

"I'm not to blame anymore for the atmosphere in here.
I've been "born again" as a nice guy."

Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
 

On 2/18/15 7:49 AM, Abit Loco wrote:
On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 21:10:41 -0500, Wayne.B wrote:

On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 12:16:06 -0500, Abit Loco
wrote:

Since I've never flown a real airplane, I can't argue your 'turns and maneuvers'
statement. I know that if I bank my airplane using the ailerons and don't give it
some up elevator, it will head for the dirt. Perhaps you could tell us what the big
differences are.

===

In a real plane you initiate a turn by briefly banking the plane with
the ailerons and giving it a momentary touch of rudder in the desired
direction. The plane will stay banked and continue to turn until you
reverse the process. And yes, you do need to pull back on the stick or
yoke a bit to maintain altitude. Does a model behave the same way?

More or less. I use my rudder very little, unless there's a side wind. But a little
up elevator is a necessity to maintain the same altitude.


Are you going to put up another set of 30-40 posts today about your toy
model airplanes? How about mixing in some golf, RV, hillbilly music,
steel ammo posts, just for, oh, variety? And perhaps a few about your
surgeries, past, present, and future...



--
Proud to be a Liberal.

Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
 

On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 21:13:53 -0500, Wayne.B wrote:

On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 11:45:30 -0500, KC wrote:

I have seen them with a live screen so you can fly with a cockpit point
of view on your controller... Not sure how fast it updates for real time
but the one I saw was a quad copter so it was not as fast...

===

I've never flown a quad copter but I am absolutely sure that it is
nothing like flying a fixed wing aircraft - model or real.

Totally different. They're fun to fly though. I bought one for the kids to play with
when we go to Solomon's. They get a charge out of it. The quadcopters don't require
nearly as much room as an airplane. If you get one for kids, be sure to get extra
batteries.
--

Guns don't cause problems. The behavior
of certain gun owners causes problems.

Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
 

On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 19:12:46 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/17/2015 6:30 PM, Abit Loco wrote:
On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 16:46:45 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/17/2015 12:44 PM, Abit Loco wrote:
On Mon, 16 Feb 2015 20:35:18 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/16/2015 8:18 PM, wrote:
On Monday, February 16, 2015 at 7:08:10 PM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/16/2015 6:31 PM, wrote:
On Monday, February 16, 2015 at 12:25:26 PM UTC-5, John H. wrote:

The big difference between simulators/real airplanes and RC airplanes - in sims or
real planes, the nose of the plane is in front of you. With an RC plane, at least
part of the time, the nose is pointed at you. That means the left and right controls
are reversed. This, I believe, is what causes the most problems, at least for me.

Another related difference is that pilots in a real plane has a seat of the pants, first person view. Not so with RC.

Something that helps newbies to RC is that when the airplane is flying towards you and the controls are reversed, your can turn your body so the transmitter is faced the same way as the plane, but look back over your shoulder at the plane. That way the stick moves to the right, the plane moves to the right. It's a crutch, but with some more stick time it'll come naturally.



I don't think there's much at all in common comparing RC flying and
flying a real airplane. Speed scale is totally different. Turns
and maneuvers are not anything close to being realistic to flying an
airplane.

I see it as a fun hobby for many but to compare it to actually flying
an airplane it isn't even close.

If you think about it, it's very similar. The same rules apply, the aircraft reacts the same way. RC planes can do things that real planes can't, but they also suffer from the fact that they don't fly quite the same way. Said another way, the air molecules are still the same size, while the wings and control surfaces of RC planes are far smaller. That's why truly scale RC planes don't tend to fly very well.

Good RC pilots can fly very realistically. I saw a jet done up in Fed-Ex colors being flown slowly and with coordinated turns. It looked very real, except for the size, although it was still large with about a 10 foot wingspan.

But while you may have not meant it, your attitude is common with "real" pilots. They think of RC planes as toys. And they crash them when they first try to fly them, thinking that if they can fly the real thing, they can fly the toy. They cannot. :)

Real pilots hope to walk away from a crash. RC pilots walk towards it!



I wasn't knocking RC flying. I know a lot of people enjoy it. I also
know a lot of people who think it's similar to actual flying (which it
isn't). As you point out the scale is totally different, the power to
weight ratio is different and the control surfaces behave differently.
I've tried a couple once in flight. You're right. I can land an
airplane but I'd crash an RC if I tried applying my flying instincts and
control.

Back when I was flying I used to play with whatever the current version
of Microsoft Flight Simulator was at the time. I had the yoke and pedal
controller set up. It was not exactly like flying but was pretty close
in many ways, especially how the wing surfaces reacted in the simulator.
Even more realistic when you added in a little "weather" and turbulence.
I think that was much closer to the "feel" of actually flying than a RC
plane can ever be.


Flight simulators such as Microsoft's have very, very little resemblance to RC
flying.

You keep saying its not similar to actual flying. How do the control surfaces behave
differently? What is the power to weight ration of the 'real' airplanes to which you
refer? Do RC airplanes have a lot more power to weight? Less?

Here are the motor specs for my motor:

Power 15 Brushless Outrunner Motor, 950Kv
Key Features

Equivalent to a 15-size glow engine for sport and scale airplanes weighing 36–56
oz (1020–1590 g)
Ideal for 3D airplanes weighing 32–40 oz (910–1135 g)
Ideal for models requiring up to 575 watts of power
High-torque, direct-drive alternative to inrunner brushless motors
Includes mount, prop adapters and mounting hardware
External rotor design—5mm shaft can easily be reversed for alternative motor
installations
Slotted 14-pole outrunner design
High-quality construction with ball bearings and hardened steel shaft

Here are my airplane specs:

Apprentice S 15e RTF with SAFE
Product Specifications
Wingspan: 59.0 in (1500mm)
Overall Length: 42.5 in (1080mm)
Wing Area: 515 sq. in. (33.2 sq. dm.)
Flying Weight: 49.0 oz (1390 g)
Motor Size: 15-size brushless outrunner
Radio: Spektrum DX5e transmitter (included)
CG (center of gravity): 3-1/8 in (79.0mm) back from the leading edge of wing
Prop Size: 11 x 8
Speed Control : 30-amp brushless (installed)
Recommended Battery: 11.1V 3S 3200mAh LiPo (included)
Flaps: No
Retracts: No
Control Throw (Ailerons): Low: 0.71 in (18mm); High: 0.91 in (23mm)
Control Throw (Elevator): Low: 0.71 in (18mm); High: 0.91 in (23mm)
Control Throw (Rudder): Low: 1.10 in (28mm); High: 1.35 in (35mm)

How does one compare the 'power to weight' ratio?

RC planes can climb faster than any comparable
"real" airplane. How fast can you climb? Pretty much like a rocket.
A real airplane doesn't climb like that and to try it would result in
a stall very quickly. A real airplane requires taking weight,
temperature, altitude and air density as factors. With RC flying, none
of those issues matter much.

Try flying a real airplane. Then you are qualified to judge and compare.

If I tried to climb vertically with the Apprentice, I'd be in a stall very quickly.
if the power is up it will do a loop, but not climb like the 3D planes discussed
earlier.

It's absolutely true that I don't worry much about temperature and air density as
factors. Weight and its distribution are important, as is altitude. Too high and I've
violated FCC regs and/or lost sight of the aircraft.

A real F/A-18 will probably climb faster than any of the scale RC aircraft and is
probably much faster. I've never seen any RC aircraft that could climb at 50,000
feet/min or fly 1000 mph, and that would include a scale RC F/A-18. But, maybe you
have.


I wasn't referring to high your fly your plane when I mentioned "altitude".


Oh man, you caught me on that one! I should have said 'feet above the surface'. But,
as my flying is mostly done from close to sea level, 'altitude' works for me.

I notice you skipped over my response to your 'real airplane doesn't climb like that'
comment. Have you seen RC airplanes that can climb like an F/A-18?
--

Guns don't cause problems. The behavior
of certain gun owners causes problems.

Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
 

On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 21:46:53 -0500, Wayne.B wrote:

On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 19:34:16 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:

Don't need to. Not interested in getting a 'real' pilot's license. I have a hard
enough time with RC planes - as do a lot of 'real' pilots, and I'm not talking piper
cub guys.



This just gets funnier and funnier. :)

===

Why the heck are you in this discussion?

Accumulating points with Eriksson, why else?
--

Guns don't cause problems. The behavior
of certain gun owners causes problems.

Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
 

On 2/18/15 8:08 AM, Abit Loco wrote:
On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 19:12:46 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:


I notice you skipped over my response to your 'real airplane doesn't climb like that'
comment. Have you seen RC airplanes that can climb like an F/A-18?



Hehehehehehe...

And the bleat goes on.

--
Proud to be a Liberal.

Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
 

On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 20:30:45 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:


On 2/17/15 7:27 PM, Abit Loco wrote:
On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 19:00:07 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/17/2015 6:05 PM, Abit Loco wrote:
On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 16:28:55 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/17/2015 12:16 PM, Abit Loco wrote:
On Mon, 16 Feb 2015 19:08:08 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/16/2015 6:31 PM, wrote:
On Monday, February 16, 2015 at 12:25:26 PM UTC-5, John H. wrote:

The big difference between simulators/real airplanes and RC
airplanes - in sims or
real planes, the nose of the plane is in front of you. With an
RC plane, at least
part of the time, the nose is pointed at you. That means the
left and right controls
are reversed. This, I believe, is what causes the most
problems, at least for me.

Another related difference is that pilots in a real plane has a
seat of the pants, first person view. Not so with RC.

Something that helps newbies to RC is that when the airplane is
flying towards you and the controls are reversed, your can turn
your body so the transmitter is faced the same way as the plane,
but look back over your shoulder at the plane. That way the
stick moves to the right, the plane moves to the right. It's a
crutch, but with some more stick time it'll come naturally.



I don't think there's much at all in common comparing RC flying and
flying a real airplane. Speed scale is totally different. Turns
and maneuvers are not anything close to being realistic to flying an
airplane.

I see it as a fun hobby for many but to compare it to actually
flying
an airplane it isn't even close.


Many of the airplanes flown at our field fly in excess of 100mph -
and that's
measured by radar.

One of our guys has one of these:
http://www.modelairplanenews.com/blo...ini-radar-gun/


They measure real speed, not scale speed.

Since I've never flown a real airplane, I can't argue your 'turns
and maneuvers'
statement. I know that if I bank my airplane using the ailerons
and don't give it
some up elevator, it will head for the dirt. Perhaps you could
tell us what the big
differences are.

I'm thinking the biggest difference is that my crash isn't going
to kill anyone. Oh,
and my pre-flight checklist is shorter!


An introductory flight lesson is cheap. Used to be about $50 for a
half
hour but maybe it's gone up now.

If the CFI is halfway comfortable with how you follow directions,
he'll
let you taxi, take off and "fly the pattern". He'll land it
although he
may let you think you did.

Do that and then come back and tell me how similar RC flying is to
actually flying a real aircraft. You may be surprised. Flying a
real airplane might be simpler.


Geezie Pete - this is getting you wrapped around an axle, isn't it.

While in Vietnam I was lucky enough to go up in an OV-10 for a three
hour flight. The
pilot was nice enough to let me fly the plane for about a half hour
after flying our
missions.

There are a lot of similarities, especially in the controls. Pulling
the stick back
on the OV-10 does the same thing as pulling the stick back on the RC
xmtr. And, not
giving the plane some throttle when doing so could cause a stall -
as the OV-10 pilot
told me. Only his words were, "Do you want to crash?" Me, "No". Him,
"Well you'd
better give it some throttle."

There were a tremendous number of similarities.

Was it the same as flying an RC aircraft? Hell no. But, it was a tad
more difficult
than steering a train.



Not me getting wrapped around an axle. You are the one who thinks
flying RC airplanes is like flying a real one.

Putting words in my mouth, are you? Shame on you.

So you took the controls of an airplane after it took off and was flying
straight and level. I did that when I was 10 years old with a pilot
friend of my father.

I've never proclaimed myself to be the pilot you are.

Try "the hood". The hood is a device that you wear that limits your
field of view to the inside of the airplane only. All you can see is
the instruments. Your instructor will take control of the airplane and
put it in an unusual attitude meaning it may be banked over and
descending or in a banked climb nearing stall. He'll then say, "Your
plane" and you learn to recover using instruments only with no ground
reference. When you are in a banked turn, you can't tell by the seat
of your pants. The airplane could be standing on one wing tip and you
wouldn't know other than by instruments.


Don't need to. Not interested in getting a 'real' pilot's license. I
have a hard
enough time with RC planes - as do a lot of 'real' pilots, and I'm not
talking piper
cub guys.


Yet just a few posts ago you were asking what the "differences" are.


I don't think I said that. But you, Krause, and Don do have a way of inserting words.

I believe I said that there are similarities between RC flying and real airplane
flying.
--

Guns don't cause problems. The behavior
of certain gun owners causes problems.