Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
 

Now I see why these folks are all chewing gum so hard.

A couple of great videos.

Part One http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=4gGMI8d3vLs

Part Two http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=S0yj70QbBzg

My butt was puckering just watching the videos.

--

Guns don't cause problems. The behavior
of certain gun owners causes problems.

Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
 

Abit Loco wrote:
Now I see why these folks are all chewing gum so hard.

A couple of great videos.
My butt was puckering just watching the videos.

Yawn and I'll bet it was. Why are you pimping for the military?

--
Sent from my iPhone 6+

Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
 

On Fri, 13 Feb 2015 08:48:05 -0500, Abit Loco
wrote:

Now I see why these folks are all chewing gum so hard.

A couple of great videos.

Part One http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=4gGMI8d3vLs

Part Two http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=S0yj70QbBzg

My butt was puckering just watching the videos.

===

Good vids John, thanks for posting.

That has to be one of the scariest jobs in the world. The son of one
of our neighbors was doing it for a while but recently retired. He
was top gun in his training group about the time we moved to Florida
and his parents were justifiably proud.

Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
 

On 13 Feb 2015 15:07:09 GMT, Keyser Söze wrote:

Yawn and I'll bet it was. Why are you pimping for the military?

===

Putz.

Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
 

On 2/13/2015 10:53 AM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Fri, 13 Feb 2015 08:48:05 -0500, Abit Loco
wrote:

Now I see why these folks are all chewing gum so hard.

A couple of great videos.

Part One http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=4gGMI8d3vLs

Part Two http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=S0yj70QbBzg

My butt was puckering just watching the videos.

===

Good vids John, thanks for posting.

That has to be one of the scariest jobs in the world. The son of one
of our neighbors was doing it for a while but recently retired. He
was top gun in his training group about the time we moved to Florida
and his parents were justifiably proud.



Interesting when one of the pilots commented that landing on a pitching
deck was more dangerous than flying combat missions.

I'll bet the CO of that carrier was kicking himself for allowing "training".

Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
 

On Fri, 13 Feb 2015 11:02:25 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/13/2015 10:53 AM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Fri, 13 Feb 2015 08:48:05 -0500, Abit Loco
wrote:

Now I see why these folks are all chewing gum so hard.

A couple of great videos.

Part One http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=4gGMI8d3vLs

Part Two http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=S0yj70QbBzg

My butt was puckering just watching the videos.

===

Good vids John, thanks for posting.

That has to be one of the scariest jobs in the world. The son of one
of our neighbors was doing it for a while but recently retired. He
was top gun in his training group about the time we moved to Florida
and his parents were justifiably proud.



Interesting when one of the pilots commented that landing on a pitching
deck was more dangerous than flying combat missions.

I'll bet the CO of that carrier was kicking himself for allowing "training".


But imagine how great those pilots feel having done it.
--

Guns don't cause problems. The behavior
of certain gun owners causes problems.

Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
 

On 13 Feb 2015 15:07:09 GMT, Keyser Söze wrote:

Abit Loco wrote:
Now I see why these folks are all chewing gum so hard.

A couple of great videos.
My butt was puckering just watching the videos.

Yawn and I'll bet it was. Why are you pimping for the military?

I've always appreciated our military, Krause. I've got a bunch of grandkids I'd love
to see in a military academy some day.
--

Guns don't cause problems. The behavior
of certain gun owners causes problems.

Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
 

On 2/13/15 11:26 AM, Abit Loco wrote:
On 13 Feb 2015 15:07:09 GMT, Keyser Söze wrote:

Abit Loco wrote:
Now I see why these folks are all chewing gum so hard.

A couple of great videos.
My butt was puckering just watching the videos.

Yawn and I'll bet it was. Why are you pimping for the military?

I've always appreciated our military, Krause. I've got a bunch of grandkids I'd love
to see in a military academy some day.



I'm hoping mine go to MIT, Harvard, or CalTech.

--
Proud to be a Liberal.

Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
 

On Fri, 13 Feb 2015 11:02:25 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/13/2015 10:53 AM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Fri, 13 Feb 2015 08:48:05 -0500, Abit Loco
wrote:

Now I see why these folks are all chewing gum so hard.

A couple of great videos.

Part One http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=4gGMI8d3vLs

Part Two http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=S0yj70QbBzg

My butt was puckering just watching the videos.

===

Good vids John, thanks for posting.

That has to be one of the scariest jobs in the world. The son of one
of our neighbors was doing it for a while but recently retired. He
was top gun in his training group about the time we moved to Florida
and his parents were justifiably proud.



Interesting when one of the pilots commented that landing on a pitching
deck was more dangerous than flying combat missions.

I'll bet the CO of that carrier was kicking himself for allowing "training".


===

Dangerous as it is they probably feel a need to practice and train for
adverse conditions. After all, you don't get a chance to pick ideal
weather for combat operations. There must be a set of guidelines for
when they can fly

Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
 

On 2/13/15 12:25 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 13 Feb 2015 12:12:42 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 2/13/15 11:26 AM, Abit Loco wrote:
On 13 Feb 2015 15:07:09 GMT, Keyser Söze wrote:

Abit Loco wrote:
Now I see why these folks are all chewing gum so hard.

A couple of great videos.
My butt was puckering just watching the videos.

Yawn and I'll bet it was. Why are you pimping for the military?

I've always appreciated our military, Krause. I've got a bunch of grandkids I'd love
to see in a military academy some day.



I'm hoping mine go to MIT, Harvard, or CalTech.

Not Kansas?


No. That state has moved back to the 19th Century, or maybe the 18th.

--
Proud to be a Liberal.

Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
 

On 2/13/2015 11:55 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 13 Feb 2015 11:02:25 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/13/2015 10:53 AM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Fri, 13 Feb 2015 08:48:05 -0500, Abit Loco
wrote:

Now I see why these folks are all chewing gum so hard.

A couple of great videos.

Part One http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=4gGMI8d3vLs

Part Two http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=S0yj70QbBzg

My butt was puckering just watching the videos.

===

Good vids John, thanks for posting.

That has to be one of the scariest jobs in the world. The son of one
of our neighbors was doing it for a while but recently retired. He
was top gun in his training group about the time we moved to Florida
and his parents were justifiably proud.



Interesting when one of the pilots commented that landing on a pitching
deck was more dangerous than flying combat missions.

I'll bet the CO of that carrier was kicking himself for allowing "training".


I think you have to train in the same conditions you may have to fight
in and we don't take a time out in a war for weather.


Halsey almost got court martialed for that. A CO's primary
responsibility is the safety of the ship and crew. I don't
think night landings in 30 foot seas is in the training manual.

Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
 

In article ,
says...

On Fri, 13 Feb 2015 11:02:25 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/13/2015 10:53 AM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Fri, 13 Feb 2015 08:48:05 -0500, Abit Loco
wrote:

Now I see why these folks are all chewing gum so hard.

A couple of great videos.

Part One http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=4gGMI8d3vLs

Part Two http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=S0yj70QbBzg

My butt was puckering just watching the videos.

===

Good vids John, thanks for posting.

That has to be one of the scariest jobs in the world. The son of one
of our neighbors was doing it for a while but recently retired. He
was top gun in his training group about the time we moved to Florida
and his parents were justifiably proud.



Interesting when one of the pilots commented that landing on a pitching
deck was more dangerous than flying combat missions.

I'll bet the CO of that carrier was kicking himself for allowing "training".


===

Dangerous as it is they probably feel a need to practice and train for
adverse conditions. After all, you don't get a chance to pick ideal
weather for combat operations. There must be a set of guidelines for
when they can fly

The pilots thought it too dangerous. It provides no repeatable
training. You have to go looking for those sea conditions.
If a pilot was killed the skipper would lose his command. If two or
three were killed he'd face a court martial.
The only thing they proved is that male chauvinism is alive and well,
and girls can chew gum.

Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
 

On Fri, 13 Feb 2015 12:30:35 -0500, Wayne.B wrote:

On Fri, 13 Feb 2015 11:02:25 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/13/2015 10:53 AM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Fri, 13 Feb 2015 08:48:05 -0500, Abit Loco
wrote:

Now I see why these folks are all chewing gum so hard.

A couple of great videos.

Part One http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=4gGMI8d3vLs

Part Two http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=S0yj70QbBzg

My butt was puckering just watching the videos.

===

Good vids John, thanks for posting.

That has to be one of the scariest jobs in the world. The son of one
of our neighbors was doing it for a while but recently retired. He
was top gun in his training group about the time we moved to Florida
and his parents were justifiably proud.



Interesting when one of the pilots commented that landing on a pitching
deck was more dangerous than flying combat missions.

I'll bet the CO of that carrier was kicking himself for allowing "training".


===

Dangerous as it is they probably feel a need to practice and train for
adverse conditions. After all, you don't get a chance to pick ideal
weather for combat operations. There must be a set of guidelines for
when they can fly

He cut the training short, from what I understood, so the Captain must have realized
he was skating on thin ice.
--

Guns don't cause problems. The behavior
of certain gun owners causes problems.

Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
 

On Fri, 13 Feb 2015 11:48:39 -0600, Boating All Out
wrote:

If a pilot was killed the skipper would lose his command.

===

Only if he was operating outside of established guide lines.

Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
 

On Fri, 13 Feb 2015 12:12:42 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 2/13/15 11:26 AM, Abit Loco wrote:
On 13 Feb 2015 15:07:09 GMT, Keyser Söze wrote:

Abit Loco wrote:
Now I see why these folks are all chewing gum so hard.

A couple of great videos.
My butt was puckering just watching the videos.

Yawn and I'll bet it was. Why are you pimping for the military?

I've always appreciated our military, Krause. I've got a bunch of grandkids I'd love
to see in a military academy some day.



I'm hoping mine go to MIT, Harvard, or CalTech.

===

Why not Stanford?

I suppose it's possible but I've never heard of anyone going to MIT or
CalTech for a liberal arts major.

Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
 

On 2/13/2015 12:58 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 13 Feb 2015 12:38:25 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/13/2015 11:55 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 13 Feb 2015 11:02:25 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/13/2015 10:53 AM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Fri, 13 Feb 2015 08:48:05 -0500, Abit Loco
wrote:

Now I see why these folks are all chewing gum so hard.

A couple of great videos.

Part One http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=4gGMI8d3vLs

Part Two http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=S0yj70QbBzg

My butt was puckering just watching the videos.

===

Good vids John, thanks for posting.

That has to be one of the scariest jobs in the world. The son of one
of our neighbors was doing it for a while but recently retired. He
was top gun in his training group about the time we moved to Florida
and his parents were justifiably proud.



Interesting when one of the pilots commented that landing on a pitching
deck was more dangerous than flying combat missions.

I'll bet the CO of that carrier was kicking himself for allowing "training".


I think you have to train in the same conditions you may have to fight
in and we don't take a time out in a war for weather.


Halsey almost got court martialed for that. A CO's primary
responsibility is the safety of the ship and crew. I don't
think night landings in 30 foot seas is in the training manual.


The Coast Guard trains in very rough conditions on a regular basis on
a lot smaller vessels than a nuke carrier and they called us "puddle
pirates"



The Coast Guard isn't doing night landings with billion dollar fighters
on a pitching flight deck in 30 foot sea swells. 30 feet is 30 feet
regardless of how big the ship is. Those carrier landings are precise.
Imagine being lined up and having the deck drop or rise 20 feet or so
at the last minute ... at over 130 knots.

If a plane and pilot had been lost in those conditions you can betcha
life there would be a formal inquiry and the CO would likely be found
negligent.

Many of the pilots said this was all new to them. Not standard
operating procedure.

Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
 

On 2/13/2015 12:48 PM, Boating All Out wrote:
In article ,
says...

On Fri, 13 Feb 2015 11:02:25 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/13/2015 10:53 AM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Fri, 13 Feb 2015 08:48:05 -0500, Abit Loco
wrote:

Now I see why these folks are all chewing gum so hard.

A couple of great videos.

Part One http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=4gGMI8d3vLs

Part Two http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=S0yj70QbBzg

My butt was puckering just watching the videos.

===

Good vids John, thanks for posting.

That has to be one of the scariest jobs in the world. The son of one
of our neighbors was doing it for a while but recently retired. He
was top gun in his training group about the time we moved to Florida
and his parents were justifiably proud.



Interesting when one of the pilots commented that landing on a pitching
deck was more dangerous than flying combat missions.

I'll bet the CO of that carrier was kicking himself for allowing "training".


===

Dangerous as it is they probably feel a need to practice and train for
adverse conditions. After all, you don't get a chance to pick ideal
weather for combat operations. There must be a set of guidelines for
when they can fly

The pilots thought it too dangerous. It provides no repeatable
training. You have to go looking for those sea conditions.
If a pilot was killed the skipper would lose his command. If two or
three were killed he'd face a court martial.
The only thing they proved is that male chauvinism is alive and well,
and girls can chew gum.




LOL. Got a kick out of her.

Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
 

On 2/13/2015 12:58 PM, Abit Loco wrote:
On Fri, 13 Feb 2015 12:30:35 -0500, Wayne.B wrote:

On Fri, 13 Feb 2015 11:02:25 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/13/2015 10:53 AM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Fri, 13 Feb 2015 08:48:05 -0500, Abit Loco
wrote:

Now I see why these folks are all chewing gum so hard.

A couple of great videos.

Part One http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=4gGMI8d3vLs

Part Two http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=S0yj70QbBzg

My butt was puckering just watching the videos.

===

Good vids John, thanks for posting.

That has to be one of the scariest jobs in the world. The son of one
of our neighbors was doing it for a while but recently retired. He
was top gun in his training group about the time we moved to Florida
and his parents were justifiably proud.



Interesting when one of the pilots commented that landing on a pitching
deck was more dangerous than flying combat missions.

I'll bet the CO of that carrier was kicking himself for allowing "training".


===

Dangerous as it is they probably feel a need to practice and train for
adverse conditions. After all, you don't get a chance to pick ideal
weather for combat operations. There must be a set of guidelines for
when they can fly

He cut the training short, from what I understood, so the Captain must have realized
he was skating on thin ice.



I think so also. Even when it was called off they had a hell of a time
recovering all the planes and pilots. I'll bet they didn't plan on it
being night ops. Risky things are done at times during warfare but the
risks here were not necessary. How often are you sailing in seas like that?

Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
 

On Fri, 13 Feb 2015 13:16:33 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/13/2015 12:58 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 13 Feb 2015 12:38:25 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/13/2015 11:55 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 13 Feb 2015 11:02:25 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/13/2015 10:53 AM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Fri, 13 Feb 2015 08:48:05 -0500, Abit Loco
wrote:

Now I see why these folks are all chewing gum so hard.

A couple of great videos.

Part One http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=4gGMI8d3vLs

Part Two http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=S0yj70QbBzg

My butt was puckering just watching the videos.

===

Good vids John, thanks for posting.

That has to be one of the scariest jobs in the world. The son of one
of our neighbors was doing it for a while but recently retired. He
was top gun in his training group about the time we moved to Florida
and his parents were justifiably proud.



Interesting when one of the pilots commented that landing on a pitching
deck was more dangerous than flying combat missions.

I'll bet the CO of that carrier was kicking himself for allowing "training".


I think you have to train in the same conditions you may have to fight
in and we don't take a time out in a war for weather.


Halsey almost got court martialed for that. A CO's primary
responsibility is the safety of the ship and crew. I don't
think night landings in 30 foot seas is in the training manual.


The Coast Guard trains in very rough conditions on a regular basis on
a lot smaller vessels than a nuke carrier and they called us "puddle
pirates"



The Coast Guard isn't doing night landings with billion dollar fighters
on a pitching flight deck in 30 foot sea swells. 30 feet is 30 feet
regardless of how big the ship is. Those carrier landings are precise.
Imagine being lined up and having the deck drop or rise 20 feet or so
at the last minute ... at over 130 knots.

If a plane and pilot had been lost in those conditions you can betcha
life there would be a formal inquiry and the CO would likely be found
negligent.

Many of the pilots said this was all new to them. Not standard
operating procedure.

I'm thinking you're probably right.
--

Guns don't cause problems. The behavior
of certain gun owners causes problems.

Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
 

In article ,
says...

On Fri, 13 Feb 2015 11:48:39 -0600, Boating All Out
wrote:

If a pilot was killed the skipper would lose his command.

===

Only if he was operating outside of established guide lines.

Two pilots said as much on tape. Of course the skipper could have those
tapes erased. But that usually turns out badly.
Anyway, all's well that ends well.

Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
 

wrote:
On Fri, 13 Feb 2015 12:34:12 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 2/13/15 12:25 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 13 Feb 2015 12:12:42 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 2/13/15 11:26 AM, Abit Loco wrote:
On 13 Feb 2015 15:07:09 GMT, Keyser Söze wrote:

Abit Loco wrote:
Now I see why these folks are all chewing gum so hard.

A couple of great videos.
My butt was puckering just watching the videos.

Yawn and I'll bet it was. Why are you pimping for the military?

I've always appreciated our military, Krause. I've got a bunch of grandkids I'd love
to see in a military academy some day.



I'm hoping mine go to MIT, Harvard, or CalTech.

Not Kansas?


No. That state has moved back to the 19th Century, or maybe the 18th.

Did Kansas ever get out of the 19th century?

For a while. Now it is controlled by the Christian Taliban.
--
Sent from my iPhone 6+

Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
 

On Fri, 13 Feb 2015 13:21:48 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/13/2015 12:58 PM, Abit Loco wrote:
On Fri, 13 Feb 2015 12:30:35 -0500, Wayne.B wrote:

On Fri, 13 Feb 2015 11:02:25 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/13/2015 10:53 AM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Fri, 13 Feb 2015 08:48:05 -0500, Abit Loco
wrote:

Now I see why these folks are all chewing gum so hard.

A couple of great videos.

Part One http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=4gGMI8d3vLs

Part Two http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=S0yj70QbBzg

My butt was puckering just watching the videos.

===

Good vids John, thanks for posting.

That has to be one of the scariest jobs in the world. The son of one
of our neighbors was doing it for a while but recently retired. He
was top gun in his training group about the time we moved to Florida
and his parents were justifiably proud.



Interesting when one of the pilots commented that landing on a pitching
deck was more dangerous than flying combat missions.

I'll bet the CO of that carrier was kicking himself for allowing "training".


===

Dangerous as it is they probably feel a need to practice and train for
adverse conditions. After all, you don't get a chance to pick ideal
weather for combat operations. There must be a set of guidelines for
when they can fly

He cut the training short, from what I understood, so the Captain must have realized
he was skating on thin ice.



I think so also. Even when it was called off they had a hell of a time
recovering all the planes and pilots. I'll bet they didn't plan on it
being night ops. Risky things are done at times during warfare but the
risks here were not necessary. How often are you sailing in seas like that?


===

It's easy to understand how a situation like that develops however.
The captain no doubt had orders to go out and conduct practice
excercises. Conditions were probably a bit better when they started
and within training guidelines. No captain wants to abort a mission
that's been ordered from above unless there is a very clear cut reason
to do so. You get ahead in the military by getting things done and
overcoming adversity.

Of course once you send planes up, you've got to get them down and
that's where things started to get hairy. There were repeated "go
arounds" and planes had to be refueled in mid-air. That all takes
extra time and conditions probably deteriorated along the way making
things even worse.

Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
 

On 2/13/2015 1:30 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 13 Feb 2015 13:16:33 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/13/2015 12:58 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 13 Feb 2015 12:38:25 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/13/2015 11:55 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 13 Feb 2015 11:02:25 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/13/2015 10:53 AM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Fri, 13 Feb 2015 08:48:05 -0500, Abit Loco
wrote:

Now I see why these folks are all chewing gum so hard.

A couple of great videos.

Part One http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=4gGMI8d3vLs

Part Two http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=S0yj70QbBzg

My butt was puckering just watching the videos.

===

Good vids John, thanks for posting.

That has to be one of the scariest jobs in the world. The son of one
of our neighbors was doing it for a while but recently retired. He
was top gun in his training group about the time we moved to Florida
and his parents were justifiably proud.



Interesting when one of the pilots commented that landing on a pitching
deck was more dangerous than flying combat missions.

I'll bet the CO of that carrier was kicking himself for allowing "training".


I think you have to train in the same conditions you may have to fight
in and we don't take a time out in a war for weather.


Halsey almost got court martialed for that. A CO's primary
responsibility is the safety of the ship and crew. I don't
think night landings in 30 foot seas is in the training manual.


The Coast Guard trains in very rough conditions on a regular basis on
a lot smaller vessels than a nuke carrier and they called us "puddle
pirates"



The Coast Guard isn't doing night landings with billion dollar fighters
on a pitching flight deck in 30 foot sea swells. 30 feet is 30 feet
regardless of how big the ship is. Those carrier landings are precise.
Imagine being lined up and having the deck drop or rise 20 feet or so
at the last minute ... at over 130 knots.

If a plane and pilot had been lost in those conditions you can betcha
life there would be a formal inquiry and the CO would likely be found
negligent.

Many of the pilots said this was all new to them. Not standard
operating procedure.


It is not "new to them" now and that might have been the objective.
War is a dangerous thing and training for it has to be too.

As for the CG, when they are dropping a rescue swimmer into the water
during a hurricane, you don't want it to be the first time he has ever
been in rough water, nor do you want that helicopter pilot to have
done all of his training on a sunny day.


Again, the primary responsibility of a ship's captain is the safety
of the ship and crew. The risks became very apparent after the many
bolters and that next to last pilot was one attempt away from ditching.

I highly respect what the USCG does but the situation is not the same.
I've seen videos of Coast Guard rescue missions being aborted due to
weather or seas that are too rough.

Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
 

On 2/13/2015 1:42 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Fri, 13 Feb 2015 13:21:48 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/13/2015 12:58 PM, Abit Loco wrote:
On Fri, 13 Feb 2015 12:30:35 -0500, Wayne.B wrote:

On Fri, 13 Feb 2015 11:02:25 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/13/2015 10:53 AM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Fri, 13 Feb 2015 08:48:05 -0500, Abit Loco
wrote:

Now I see why these folks are all chewing gum so hard.

A couple of great videos.

Part One http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=4gGMI8d3vLs

Part Two http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=S0yj70QbBzg

My butt was puckering just watching the videos.

===

Good vids John, thanks for posting.

That has to be one of the scariest jobs in the world. The son of one
of our neighbors was doing it for a while but recently retired. He
was top gun in his training group about the time we moved to Florida
and his parents were justifiably proud.



Interesting when one of the pilots commented that landing on a pitching
deck was more dangerous than flying combat missions.

I'll bet the CO of that carrier was kicking himself for allowing "training".


===

Dangerous as it is they probably feel a need to practice and train for
adverse conditions. After all, you don't get a chance to pick ideal
weather for combat operations. There must be a set of guidelines for
when they can fly

He cut the training short, from what I understood, so the Captain must have realized
he was skating on thin ice.



I think so also. Even when it was called off they had a hell of a time
recovering all the planes and pilots. I'll bet they didn't plan on it
being night ops. Risky things are done at times during warfare but the
risks here were not necessary. How often are you sailing in seas like that?


===

It's easy to understand how a situation like that develops however.
The captain no doubt had orders to go out and conduct practice
excercises. Conditions were probably a bit better when they started
and within training guidelines. No captain wants to abort a mission
that's been ordered from above unless there is a very clear cut reason
to do so. You get ahead in the military by getting things done and
overcoming adversity.

Of course once you send planes up, you've got to get them down and
that's where things started to get hairy. There were repeated "go
arounds" and planes had to be refueled in mid-air. That all takes
extra time and conditions probably deteriorated along the way making
things even worse.



Been a while since Navy days but I don't think the captain of a ship
gets orders from above to conduct training. Training is a normal
ship's routine while underway and the scheduling is done at the local
command.

Another issue is the chain of command on a carrier. The pilots and
planes are squadrons that embark on the carrier when it is deployed.
The squadron has it's own CO who is also responsible for training.

But, the ship's captain has the final say.

Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
 

Abit Loco wrote:
Now I see why these folks are all chewing gum so hard.

A couple of great videos.

Part One http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=4gGMI8d3vLs

Part Two http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=S0yj70QbBzg

My butt was puckering just watching the videos.

That's some awesome stuff!


---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
http://www.avast.com

Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
 

Keyser Söze wrote:
On 2/13/15 11:26 AM, Abit Loco wrote:
On 13 Feb 2015 15:07:09 GMT, Keyser Söze wrote:

Abit Loco wrote:
Now I see why these folks are all chewing gum so hard.

A couple of great videos.
My butt was puckering just watching the videos.

Yawn and I'll bet it was. Why are you pimping for the military?

I've always appreciated our military, Krause. I've got a bunch of
grandkids I'd love
to see in a military academy some day.



I'm hoping mine go to MIT, Harvard, or CalTech.

They don't know you exist and rightfully so.


---
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http://www.avast.com

Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
 

Someone Else wrote:
Abit Loco wrote:
Now I see why these folks are all chewing gum so hard.

A couple of great videos.

Part One http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=4gGMI8d3vLs

Part Two http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=S0yj70QbBzg

My butt was puckering just watching the videos.

That's some awesome stuff!


---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
http://www.avast.com

I have a friend who was a Marine carrier pilot, two tours in Vietnam. Said
the hardest part of the selection test was lining up a couple paddles in a
long box. Said that washed out more pilot wannabes than anything else.
Was a depth perception test.

Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
 

On Friday, February 13, 2015 at 12:12:44 PM UTC-5, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 2/13/15 11:26 AM, Abit Loco wrote:
On 13 Feb 2015 15:07:09 GMT, Keyser Söze wrote:

Abit Loco wrote:
Now I see why these folks are all chewing gum so hard.

A couple of great videos.
My butt was puckering just watching the videos.

Yawn and I'll bet it was. Why are you pimping for the military?

I've always appreciated our military, Krause. I've got a bunch of grandkids I'd love
to see in a military academy some day.



I'm hoping mine go to MIT, Harvard, or CalTech.

--
Proud to be a Liberal.

Those are some great choices, Harry. I hope they get in. I'm sure they'll excel should they do so.

Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
 

On Sun, 15 Feb 2015 18:48:01 -0500, KC wrote:

Might have told this one before but a friend of mine was a pilot in
Vietnam and after spent a long career flying freight for American
Airlines. A few years after retirement, in the early 90's I was at his
house and he had a huge computer screen with a full yoke and pedals and
was flying a Flight Simulator, I think it was the Microsoft package. I
had never seen one before with the full hand and foot controls, it was
pretty cool... After watching him fly for some time during our
conversation that day I asked him "what happens when you crash the
thing?". Wondering what the software package did and his answer caught
me off guard. He said, "I don't know, I would never crash it".... To me
that was weird, but I accepted it and still do.

===

I remember the orignal Microsoft Flight Simulator that ran on the
early IBM PCs using keyboard controls to fly the plane. If you
crashed, and just about everyone did, it would make a very abrupt
crunching sound and the windshield image would shatter. It was a bit
unnerving the first time it happened to you.

Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
 

On Monday, February 16, 2015 at 12:25:26 PM UTC-5, John H. wrote:

The big difference between simulators/real airplanes and RC airplanes - in sims or
real planes, the nose of the plane is in front of you. With an RC plane, at least
part of the time, the nose is pointed at you. That means the left and right controls
are reversed. This, I believe, is what causes the most problems, at least for me.

Another related difference is that pilots in a real plane has a seat of the pants, first person view. Not so with RC.

Something that helps newbies to RC is that when the airplane is flying towards you and the controls are reversed, your can turn your body so the transmitter is faced the same way as the plane, but look back over your shoulder at the plane. That way the stick moves to the right, the plane moves to the right. It's a crutch, but with some more stick time it'll come naturally.

Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
 

On Mon, 16 Feb 2015 15:31:41 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Monday, February 16, 2015 at 12:25:26 PM UTC-5, John H. wrote:

The big difference between simulators/real airplanes and RC airplanes - in sims or
real planes, the nose of the plane is in front of you. With an RC plane, at least
part of the time, the nose is pointed at you. That means the left and right controls
are reversed. This, I believe, is what causes the most problems, at least for me.

Another related difference is that pilots in a real plane has a seat of the pants, first person view. Not so with RC.

Something that helps newbies to RC is that when the airplane is flying towards you and the controls are reversed, your can turn your body so the transmitter is faced the same way as the plane, but look back over your shoulder at the plane. That way the stick moves to the right, the plane moves to the right. It's a crutch, but with some more stick time it'll come naturally.

Believe it or not, I learned that the last time I was out. A turn of the body sure
helps.
--

Guns don't cause problems. The behavior
of certain gun owners causes problems.

Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
 

On 2/16/15 6:51 PM, Abit Loco wrote:
On Mon, 16 Feb 2015 15:31:41 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Monday, February 16, 2015 at 12:25:26 PM UTC-5, John H. wrote:

The big difference between simulators/real airplanes and RC airplanes - in sims or
real planes, the nose of the plane is in front of you. With an RC plane, at least
part of the time, the nose is pointed at you. That means the left and right controls
are reversed. This, I believe, is what causes the most problems, at least for me.

Another related difference is that pilots in a real plane has a seat of the pants, first person view. Not so with RC.

Something that helps newbies to RC is that when the airplane is flying towards you and the controls are reversed, your can turn your body so the transmitter is faced the same way as the plane, but look back over your shoulder at the plane. That way the stick moves to the right, the plane moves to the right. It's a crutch, but with some more stick time it'll come naturally.

Believe it or not, I learned that the last time I was out. A turn of the body sure
helps.


Works with other toys, too, like model railroad layouts.

--
Proud to be a Liberal.

Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
 

On 2/16/2015 6:31 PM, wrote:
On Monday, February 16, 2015 at 12:25:26 PM UTC-5, John H. wrote:

The big difference between simulators/real airplanes and RC airplanes - in sims or
real planes, the nose of the plane is in front of you. With an RC plane, at least
part of the time, the nose is pointed at you. That means the left and right controls
are reversed. This, I believe, is what causes the most problems, at least for me.

Another related difference is that pilots in a real plane has a seat of the pants, first person view. Not so with RC.

Something that helps newbies to RC is that when the airplane is flying towards you and the controls are reversed, your can turn your body so the transmitter is faced the same way as the plane, but look back over your shoulder at the plane. That way the stick moves to the right, the plane moves to the right. It's a crutch, but with some more stick time it'll come naturally.



I don't think there's much at all in common comparing RC flying and
flying a real airplane. Speed scale is totally different. Turns
and maneuvers are not anything close to being realistic to flying an
airplane.

I see it as a fun hobby for many but to compare it to actually flying
an airplane it isn't even close.

Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
 

On 2/16/15 7:08 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/16/2015 6:31 PM, wrote:
On Monday, February 16, 2015 at 12:25:26 PM UTC-5, John H. wrote:

The big difference between simulators/real airplanes and RC airplanes
- in sims or
real planes, the nose of the plane is in front of you. With an RC
plane, at least
part of the time, the nose is pointed at you. That means the left and
right controls
are reversed. This, I believe, is what causes the most problems, at
least for me.

Another related difference is that pilots in a real plane has a seat
of the pants, first person view. Not so with RC.

Something that helps newbies to RC is that when the airplane is flying
towards you and the controls are reversed, your can turn your body so
the transmitter is faced the same way as the plane, but look back over
your shoulder at the plane. That way the stick moves to the right,
the plane moves to the right. It's a crutch, but with some more stick
time it'll come naturally.



I don't think there's much at all in common comparing RC flying and
flying a real airplane. Speed scale is totally different. Turns
and maneuvers are not anything close to being realistic to flying an
airplane.

I see it as a fun hobby for many but to compare it to actually flying
an airplane it isn't even close.



What happens when your toy plane crashes? It breaks.
What happens when a real airplane crashes? Death and destruction.



--
Proud to be a Liberal.

Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
 

On Monday, February 16, 2015 at 7:08:10 PM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/16/2015 6:31 PM, wrote:
On Monday, February 16, 2015 at 12:25:26 PM UTC-5, John H. wrote:

The big difference between simulators/real airplanes and RC airplanes - in sims or
real planes, the nose of the plane is in front of you. With an RC plane, at least
part of the time, the nose is pointed at you. That means the left and right controls
are reversed. This, I believe, is what causes the most problems, at least for me.

Another related difference is that pilots in a real plane has a seat of the pants, first person view. Not so with RC.

Something that helps newbies to RC is that when the airplane is flying towards you and the controls are reversed, your can turn your body so the transmitter is faced the same way as the plane, but look back over your shoulder at the plane. That way the stick moves to the right, the plane moves to the right. It's a crutch, but with some more stick time it'll come naturally.



I don't think there's much at all in common comparing RC flying and
flying a real airplane. Speed scale is totally different. Turns
and maneuvers are not anything close to being realistic to flying an
airplane.

I see it as a fun hobby for many but to compare it to actually flying
an airplane it isn't even close.

If you think about it, it's very similar. The same rules apply, the aircraft reacts the same way. RC planes can do things that real planes can't, but they also suffer from the fact that they don't fly quite the same way. Said another way, the air molecules are still the same size, while the wings and control surfaces of RC planes are far smaller. That's why truly scale RC planes don't tend to fly very well.

Good RC pilots can fly very realistically. I saw a jet done up in Fed-Ex colors being flown slowly and with coordinated turns. It looked very real, except for the size, although it was still large with about a 10 foot wingspan.

But while you may have not meant it, your attitude is common with "real" pilots. They think of RC planes as toys. And they crash them when they first try to fly them, thinking that if they can fly the real thing, they can fly the toy. They cannot. :)

Real pilots hope to walk away from a crash. RC pilots walk towards it!

Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
 

On 2/16/2015 7:54 PM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 2/16/15 7:08 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/16/2015 6:31 PM, wrote:
On Monday, February 16, 2015 at 12:25:26 PM UTC-5, John H. wrote:

The big difference between simulators/real airplanes and RC airplanes
- in sims or
real planes, the nose of the plane is in front of you. With an RC
plane, at least
part of the time, the nose is pointed at you. That means the left and
right controls
are reversed. This, I believe, is what causes the most problems, at
least for me.

Another related difference is that pilots in a real plane has a seat
of the pants, first person view. Not so with RC.

Something that helps newbies to RC is that when the airplane is flying
towards you and the controls are reversed, your can turn your body so
the transmitter is faced the same way as the plane, but look back over
your shoulder at the plane. That way the stick moves to the right,
the plane moves to the right. It's a crutch, but with some more stick
time it'll come naturally.



I don't think there's much at all in common comparing RC flying and
flying a real airplane. Speed scale is totally different. Turns
and maneuvers are not anything close to being realistic to flying an
airplane.

I see it as a fun hobby for many but to compare it to actually flying
an airplane it isn't even close.



What happens when your toy plane crashes? It breaks.
What happens when a real airplane crashes? Death and destruction.





True.

I've seen some large RC planes that appear to be very realistic in
flight, maneuvers, take-offs and landings but the smaller ones I've
seen people flying are way out of scale to anything real. They can
do turns, climbs, etc. that would cause a human pilot to pass out
or worse.

The bigger ones fly slower, maneuver more slowly and look much more
realistic.

I am not knocking those who enjoy the RC hobby thing. I just don't
think you can come close to comparing it to actual flying.

Heard something on the new the other day about proposed regulations
governing RC and drone flying. One was an FAA Certificate which, I
assume, means a demonstration of basic proficiency.

Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
 

On Monday, February 16, 2015 at 6:57:42 PM UTC-5, Keyser Söze wrote:

Works with other toys, too, like model railroad layouts.

That's stupid. You don't have to steer a model railroad.

Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
 

On 2/16/2015 8:18 PM, wrote:
On Monday, February 16, 2015 at 7:08:10 PM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/16/2015 6:31 PM, wrote:
On Monday, February 16, 2015 at 12:25:26 PM UTC-5, John H. wrote:

The big difference between simulators/real airplanes and RC airplanes - in sims or
real planes, the nose of the plane is in front of you. With an RC plane, at least
part of the time, the nose is pointed at you. That means the left and right controls
are reversed. This, I believe, is what causes the most problems, at least for me.

Another related difference is that pilots in a real plane has a seat of the pants, first person view. Not so with RC.

Something that helps newbies to RC is that when the airplane is flying towards you and the controls are reversed, your can turn your body so the transmitter is faced the same way as the plane, but look back over your shoulder at the plane. That way the stick moves to the right, the plane moves to the right. It's a crutch, but with some more stick time it'll come naturally.



I don't think there's much at all in common comparing RC flying and
flying a real airplane. Speed scale is totally different. Turns
and maneuvers are not anything close to being realistic to flying an
airplane.

I see it as a fun hobby for many but to compare it to actually flying
an airplane it isn't even close.

If you think about it, it's very similar. The same rules apply, the aircraft reacts the same way. RC planes can do things that real planes can't, but they also suffer from the fact that they don't fly quite the same way. Said another way, the air molecules are still the same size, while the wings and control surfaces of RC planes are far smaller. That's why truly scale RC planes don't tend to fly very well.

Good RC pilots can fly very realistically. I saw a jet done up in Fed-Ex colors being flown slowly and with coordinated turns. It looked very real, except for the size, although it was still large with about a 10 foot wingspan.

But while you may have not meant it, your attitude is common with "real" pilots. They think of RC planes as toys. And they crash them when they first try to fly them, thinking that if they can fly the real thing, they can fly the toy. They cannot. :)

Real pilots hope to walk away from a crash. RC pilots walk towards it!



I wasn't knocking RC flying. I know a lot of people enjoy it. I also
know a lot of people who think it's similar to actual flying (which it
isn't). As you point out the scale is totally different, the power to
weight ratio is different and the control surfaces behave differently.
I've tried a couple once in flight. You're right. I can land an
airplane but I'd crash an RC if I tried applying my flying instincts and
control.

Back when I was flying I used to play with whatever the current version
of Microsoft Flight Simulator was at the time. I had the yoke and pedal
controller set up. It was not exactly like flying but was pretty close
in many ways, especially how the wing surfaces reacted in the simulator.
Even more realistic when you added in a little "weather" and turbulence.
I think that was much closer to the "feel" of actually flying than a RC
plane can ever be.

Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
 

On 2/16/15 8:19 PM, wrote:
On Monday, February 16, 2015 at 6:57:42 PM UTC-5, Keyser Söze wrote:

Works with other toys, too, like model railroad layouts.

That's stupid. You don't have to steer a model railroad.


You've heard of switches, right?

--
Proud to be a Liberal.

Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
 

Mr. Luddite
- show quoted text -


Snip...
"Heard something on the new the other day about proposed regulations
governing RC and drone flying. * One was an FAA Certificate which, I
assume, means a demonstration of basic proficiency."


Oh oh...there goes Johnny's short career.