Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
 

On Wed, 18 Feb 2015 08:26:12 -0500, Keyser Söze wrote:

On 2/18/15 8:12 AM, Abit Loco wrote:
On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 20:30:45 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:


On 2/17/15 7:27 PM, Abit Loco wrote:
On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 19:00:07 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/17/2015 6:05 PM, Abit Loco wrote:
On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 16:28:55 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/17/2015 12:16 PM, Abit Loco wrote:
On Mon, 16 Feb 2015 19:08:08 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/16/2015 6:31 PM, wrote:
On Monday, February 16, 2015 at 12:25:26 PM UTC-5, John H. wrote:

The big difference between simulators/real airplanes and RC
airplanes - in sims or
real planes, the nose of the plane is in front of you. With an
RC plane, at least
part of the time, the nose is pointed at you. That means the
left and right controls
are reversed. This, I believe, is what causes the most
problems, at least for me.

Another related difference is that pilots in a real plane has a
seat of the pants, first person view. Not so with RC.

Something that helps newbies to RC is that when the airplane is
flying towards you and the controls are reversed, your can turn
your body so the transmitter is faced the same way as the plane,
but look back over your shoulder at the plane. That way the
stick moves to the right, the plane moves to the right. It's a
crutch, but with some more stick time it'll come naturally.



I don't think there's much at all in common comparing RC flying and
flying a real airplane. Speed scale is totally different. Turns
and maneuvers are not anything close to being realistic to flying an
airplane.

I see it as a fun hobby for many but to compare it to actually
flying
an airplane it isn't even close.


Many of the airplanes flown at our field fly in excess of 100mph -
and that's
measured by radar.

One of our guys has one of these:
http://www.modelairplanenews.com/blo...ini-radar-gun/


They measure real speed, not scale speed.

Since I've never flown a real airplane, I can't argue your 'turns
and maneuvers'
statement. I know that if I bank my airplane using the ailerons
and don't give it
some up elevator, it will head for the dirt. Perhaps you could
tell us what the big
differences are.

I'm thinking the biggest difference is that my crash isn't going
to kill anyone. Oh,
and my pre-flight checklist is shorter!


An introductory flight lesson is cheap. Used to be about $50 for a
half
hour but maybe it's gone up now.

If the CFI is halfway comfortable with how you follow directions,
he'll
let you taxi, take off and "fly the pattern". He'll land it
although he
may let you think you did.

Do that and then come back and tell me how similar RC flying is to
actually flying a real aircraft. You may be surprised. Flying a
real airplane might be simpler.


Geezie Pete - this is getting you wrapped around an axle, isn't it.

While in Vietnam I was lucky enough to go up in an OV-10 for a three
hour flight. The
pilot was nice enough to let me fly the plane for about a half hour
after flying our
missions.

There are a lot of similarities, especially in the controls. Pulling
the stick back
on the OV-10 does the same thing as pulling the stick back on the RC
xmtr. And, not
giving the plane some throttle when doing so could cause a stall -
as the OV-10 pilot
told me. Only his words were, "Do you want to crash?" Me, "No". Him,
"Well you'd
better give it some throttle."

There were a tremendous number of similarities.

Was it the same as flying an RC aircraft? Hell no. But, it was a tad
more difficult
than steering a train.



Not me getting wrapped around an axle. You are the one who thinks
flying RC airplanes is like flying a real one.

Putting words in my mouth, are you? Shame on you.

So you took the controls of an airplane after it took off and was flying
straight and level. I did that when I was 10 years old with a pilot
friend of my father.

I've never proclaimed myself to be the pilot you are.

Try "the hood". The hood is a device that you wear that limits your
field of view to the inside of the airplane only. All you can see is
the instruments. Your instructor will take control of the airplane and
put it in an unusual attitude meaning it may be banked over and
descending or in a banked climb nearing stall. He'll then say, "Your
plane" and you learn to recover using instruments only with no ground
reference. When you are in a banked turn, you can't tell by the seat
of your pants. The airplane could be standing on one wing tip and you
wouldn't know other than by instruments.


Don't need to. Not interested in getting a 'real' pilot's license. I
have a hard
enough time with RC planes - as do a lot of 'real' pilots, and I'm not
talking piper
cub guys.


Yet just a few posts ago you were asking what the "differences" are.


I don't think I said that. But you, Krause, and Don do have a way of inserting words.

I believe I said that there are similarities between RC flying and real airplane
flying.



Just as there are "similarities" between running a radio controlled toy
boat in a swimming pool and a real boat in the ocean, eh?

Exactly. Thank you for your insight.
--

Guns don't cause problems. The behavior
of certain gun owners causes problems.

Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
 

On 2/17/2015 12:16 PM, Abit Loco wrote:
On Mon, 16 Feb 2015 19:08:08 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/16/2015 6:31 PM, wrote:
On Monday, February 16, 2015 at 12:25:26 PM UTC-5, John H. wrote:

The big difference between simulators/real airplanes and RC airplanes - in sims or
real planes, the nose of the plane is in front of you. With an RC plane, at least
part of the time, the nose is pointed at you. That means the left and right controls
are reversed. This, I believe, is what causes the most problems, at least for me.

Another related difference is that pilots in a real plane has a seat of the pants, first person view. Not so with RC.

Something that helps newbies to RC is that when the airplane is flying towards you and the controls are reversed, your can turn your body so the transmitter is faced the same way as the plane, but look back over your shoulder at the plane. That way the stick moves to the right, the plane moves to the right. It's a crutch, but with some more stick time it'll come naturally.



I don't think there's much at all in common comparing RC flying and
flying a real airplane. Speed scale is totally different. Turns
and maneuvers are not anything close to being realistic to flying an
airplane.

I see it as a fun hobby for many but to compare it to actually flying
an airplane it isn't even close.


Many of the airplanes flown at our field fly in excess of 100mph - and that's
measured by radar.

One of our guys has one of these:
http://www.modelairplanenews.com/blo...ini-radar-gun/

They measure real speed, not scale speed.

Since I've never flown a real airplane, I can't argue your 'turns and maneuvers'
statement. I know that if I bank my airplane using the ailerons and don't give it
some up elevator, it will head for the dirt. Perhaps you could tell us what the big
differences are.

I'm thinking the biggest difference is that my crash isn't going to kill anyone. Oh,
and my pre-flight checklist is shorter!


Has anybody mentioned the seat of the pants feeling? I mean, that must
help you fly in some respect feeling the plane under you?

Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
 

On Wed, 18 Feb 2015 05:50:09 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Wednesday, February 18, 2015 at 8:17:27 AM UTC-5, John H. wrote:
On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 19:42:20 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

Whatever you say Captain Herring. I admit that I have many more hours
logged flying for real than I have flying a RC airplane, standing on the
ground and controlling it with basically a game controller.
Maybe if I did it more often I'd learn how similar it is to the real thing.

Then again, probably not. No interest.


with a

Let's see...ingrained racist, Aunt Clara, Sheriff, and now Captain...all in a couple
months.

From now on, whenever you're flying your real airplane, you will think this:

"STICK LEFT, STEER LEFT"

"STICK RIGHT, STEER RIGHT"

That thought will become ingrained. Don't ever mistake it with countersteering!
--

Guns don't cause problems. The behavior
of certain gun owners causes problems.

Say, aren't "real" airplanes and a pilot's license just toys for wealthy boys? :)

I'm not getting into finances. But it does kinda sound like that. Can one order a
Piper from Amazon? This is what I want when I grow up:

http://tinyurl.com/ofvvkzb
--

Guns don't cause problems. The behavior
of certain gun owners causes problems.

Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
 

On Wed, 18 Feb 2015 09:19:58 -0500, KC wrote:

On 2/17/2015 12:16 PM, Abit Loco wrote:
On Mon, 16 Feb 2015 19:08:08 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/16/2015 6:31 PM, wrote:
On Monday, February 16, 2015 at 12:25:26 PM UTC-5, John H. wrote:

The big difference between simulators/real airplanes and RC airplanes - in sims or
real planes, the nose of the plane is in front of you. With an RC plane, at least
part of the time, the nose is pointed at you. That means the left and right controls
are reversed. This, I believe, is what causes the most problems, at least for me.

Another related difference is that pilots in a real plane has a seat of the pants, first person view. Not so with RC.

Something that helps newbies to RC is that when the airplane is flying towards you and the controls are reversed, your can turn your body so the transmitter is faced the same way as the plane, but look back over your shoulder at the plane. That way the stick moves to the right, the plane moves to the right. It's a crutch, but with some more stick time it'll come naturally.



I don't think there's much at all in common comparing RC flying and
flying a real airplane. Speed scale is totally different. Turns
and maneuvers are not anything close to being realistic to flying an
airplane.

I see it as a fun hobby for many but to compare it to actually flying
an airplane it isn't even close.


Many of the airplanes flown at our field fly in excess of 100mph - and that's
measured by radar.

One of our guys has one of these:
http://www.modelairplanenews.com/blo...ini-radar-gun/

They measure real speed, not scale speed.

Since I've never flown a real airplane, I can't argue your 'turns and maneuvers'
statement. I know that if I bank my airplane using the ailerons and don't give it
some up elevator, it will head for the dirt. Perhaps you could tell us what the big
differences are.

I'm thinking the biggest difference is that my crash isn't going to kill anyone. Oh,
and my pre-flight checklist is shorter!


Has anybody mentioned the seat of the pants feeling? I mean, that must
help you fly in some respect feeling the plane under you?

Yup, that was mentioned. That feeling does not occur when flying an RC aircraft,
although some asshole puckering often does.
--

Guns don't cause problems. The behavior
of certain gun owners causes problems.

Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
 

On Wed, 18 Feb 2015 09:08:06 -0500, Keyser Söze wrote:

On 2/18/15 9:01 AM, Abit Loco wrote:

Gosh, and here just a while back you were telling me my 18'er was way too small for
the bay.

Gosh, Harry. You sure do change stories a lot.


When was that, John? During one of your anesthesia induced surgeries?

When I bought the Key West. Where'd your memory go?
--

Guns don't cause problems. The behavior
of certain gun owners causes problems.

Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
 

On Wed, 18 Feb 2015 08:17:31 -0500, Abit Loco wrote:

On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 19:42:20 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/17/2015 6:39 PM, Abit Loco wrote:
On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 18:17:23 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/17/2015 5:58 PM, Abit Loco wrote:
On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 16:34:20 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/17/2015 12:16 PM, Abit Loco wrote:
On Mon, 16 Feb 2015 19:54:29 -0500, Keyser Söze wrote:

On 2/16/15 7:08 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/16/2015 6:31 PM, wrote:
On Monday, February 16, 2015 at 12:25:26 PM UTC-5, John H. wrote:

The big difference between simulators/real airplanes and RC airplanes
- in sims or
real planes, the nose of the plane is in front of you. With an RC
plane, at least
part of the time, the nose is pointed at you. That means the left and
right controls
are reversed. This, I believe, is what causes the most problems, at
least for me.

Another related difference is that pilots in a real plane has a seat
of the pants, first person view. Not so with RC.

Something that helps newbies to RC is that when the airplane is flying
towards you and the controls are reversed, your can turn your body so
the transmitter is faced the same way as the plane, but look back over
your shoulder at the plane. That way the stick moves to the right,
the plane moves to the right. It's a crutch, but with some more stick
time it'll come naturally.



I don't think there's much at all in common comparing RC flying and
flying a real airplane. Speed scale is totally different. Turns
and maneuvers are not anything close to being realistic to flying an
airplane.

I see it as a fun hobby for many but to compare it to actually flying
an airplane it isn't even close.



What happens when your toy plane crashes? It breaks.
What happens when a real airplane crashes? Death and destruction.

And that, my friends, is the big difference!



The chances of you crashing a real airplane are pretty slim compared to
crashing a RC. First of all, while under instruction your CFI isn't
keen on crashing. By the time you are ready to solo you will be well
qualified in the eyes of your instructor.

When you consider the number of people taking flight lessons every day
across the country and the number of small aircraft pilots flying every
day, the safety record is pretty high and the number of crashes are low.


Have you ever 'buddy-boxed' with an RC instructor pilot? While under instruction, the
instructor isn't keen on you ruining your airplane. He has a switch which immediately
gives him control of the aircraft if he thinks trouble is approaching.



When I was actively flying the thought of ruining the airplane never
crossed my mind.

John, if you want to believe that flying a $200 airplane by remote
control emulates flying a real airplane, more power to you.
I see them as two completely different experiences that require totally
different skill sets. Any licensed pilot can remember every single
detail of their first solo flight when the CFI was no longer sitting
beside you and once you went up ... getting down alive was entirely
dependent on you. Second is the cross country phase where navigation
becomes key. With RC flying you don't lose where you are. I remember
some of the early flight lessons when the instructor would tell me
to head back to the airport ... and I just stared at the ground
wondering where the hell I was. These have nothing to do with
controlling or flying the airplane but are part of "real" flying.

If you think there are *no* similarities between flying an RC aircraft (of any cost)
and flying the real airplane, then more power to you.

Now you're comparing flying an RC airplane to getting a pilot's license for a real
airplane. Why not compare it to flying and landing an F/A-18 on a carrier. I'll bet
that's much different from landing an RC airplane in the grass.

True, when flying an RC airplane, the pilot never loses where *he* is. But, they
often lose where the airplane is. Happened to me a couple weeks ago. I flew the
airplane beyond my ability to see it. The clouds were much the same color as the
airplane. Had to yell for help. Young guy came and got it back for me.

Just calm down a bit. No one is trying to denigrate your experience in getting your
pilot's license. And, when you pushed that stick left or right, you were steering the
airplane, whether you like it or not!



Whatever you say Captain Herring. I admit that I have many more hours
logged flying for real than I have flying a RC airplane, standing on the
ground and controlling it with basically a game controller.
Maybe if I did it more often I'd learn how similar it is to the real thing.

Then again, probably not. No interest.


with a

Let's see...ingrained racist, Aunt Clara, Sheriff, and now Captain...all in a couple
months.

From now on, whenever you're flying your real airplane, you will think this:

"STICK LEFT, STEER LEFT"

"STICK RIGHT, STEER RIGHT"

That thought will become ingrained. Don't ever mistake it with countersteering!

And now 'asshole' can be added to the list.

You're giving Krause a real run for his money!
--

Guns don't cause problems. The behavior
of certain gun owners causes problems.

Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
 

On 2/18/15 9:11 AM, Abit Loco wrote:
On Wed, 18 Feb 2015 08:25:08 -0500, Keyser Söze wrote:

On 2/18/15 8:09 AM, Abit Loco wrote:
On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 21:46:53 -0500, Wayne.B wrote:

On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 19:34:16 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:

Don't need to. Not interested in getting a 'real' pilot's license. I have a hard
enough time with RC planes - as do a lot of 'real' pilots, and I'm not talking piper
cub guys.



This just gets funnier and funnier. :)

===

Why the heck are you in this discussion?

Accumulating points with Eriksson, why else?



Oh, please. Richard and I disagree on a lot of subjects, and never will
agree on most of them. I'm giggling at you and your comments about toy
airplanes, your obsession with them, and your claims that flying toy
airplanes and flying real airplanes require similar skills.

Perhaps you see yourself as a *real* pilot. Some might see you as a
disintegrating old fart with nothing real to do, too much time on your
hands, and an endless list of hobbies. I'm not saying *I* see you that
way, but some might, eh?

Touched a nerve, eh?


What? I'm not the one who has had a seemingly endless list of surgeries,
or the one with nothing real to do, or the one with an endless list of
hobbies.

--
Proud to be a Liberal.

Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
 

On 2/18/15 9:32 AM, Abit Loco wrote:
On Wed, 18 Feb 2015 09:08:06 -0500, Keyser Söze wrote:

On 2/18/15 9:01 AM, Abit Loco wrote:

Gosh, and here just a while back you were telling me my 18'er was way too small for
the bay.

Gosh, Harry. You sure do change stories a lot.


When was that, John? During one of your anesthesia induced surgeries?

When I bought the Key West. Where'd your memory go?


Since I boated on the bay with a boat only slightly larger when I came
up here, that hardly seems the case.

--
Proud to be a Liberal.

Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
 

On Wed, 18 Feb 2015 08:27:14 -0500, Keyser Söze wrote:

On 2/18/15 8:17 AM, Abit Loco wrote:
On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 19:42:20 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/17/2015 6:39 PM, Abit Loco wrote:
On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 18:17:23 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/17/2015 5:58 PM, Abit Loco wrote:
On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 16:34:20 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/17/2015 12:16 PM, Abit Loco wrote:
On Mon, 16 Feb 2015 19:54:29 -0500, Keyser Söze wrote:

On 2/16/15 7:08 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/16/2015 6:31 PM, wrote:
On Monday, February 16, 2015 at 12:25:26 PM UTC-5, John H. wrote:

The big difference between simulators/real airplanes and RC airplanes
- in sims or
real planes, the nose of the plane is in front of you. With an RC
plane, at least
part of the time, the nose is pointed at you. That means the left and
right controls
are reversed. This, I believe, is what causes the most problems, at
least for me.

Another related difference is that pilots in a real plane has a seat
of the pants, first person view. Not so with RC.

Something that helps newbies to RC is that when the airplane is flying
towards you and the controls are reversed, your can turn your body so
the transmitter is faced the same way as the plane, but look back over
your shoulder at the plane. That way the stick moves to the right,
the plane moves to the right. It's a crutch, but with some more stick
time it'll come naturally.



I don't think there's much at all in common comparing RC flying and
flying a real airplane. Speed scale is totally different. Turns
and maneuvers are not anything close to being realistic to flying an
airplane.

I see it as a fun hobby for many but to compare it to actually flying
an airplane it isn't even close.



What happens when your toy plane crashes? It breaks.
What happens when a real airplane crashes? Death and destruction.

And that, my friends, is the big difference!



The chances of you crashing a real airplane are pretty slim compared to
crashing a RC. First of all, while under instruction your CFI isn't
keen on crashing. By the time you are ready to solo you will be well
qualified in the eyes of your instructor.

When you consider the number of people taking flight lessons every day
across the country and the number of small aircraft pilots flying every
day, the safety record is pretty high and the number of crashes are low.


Have you ever 'buddy-boxed' with an RC instructor pilot? While under instruction, the
instructor isn't keen on you ruining your airplane. He has a switch which immediately
gives him control of the aircraft if he thinks trouble is approaching.



When I was actively flying the thought of ruining the airplane never
crossed my mind.

John, if you want to believe that flying a $200 airplane by remote
control emulates flying a real airplane, more power to you.
I see them as two completely different experiences that require totally
different skill sets. Any licensed pilot can remember every single
detail of their first solo flight when the CFI was no longer sitting
beside you and once you went up ... getting down alive was entirely
dependent on you. Second is the cross country phase where navigation
becomes key. With RC flying you don't lose where you are. I remember
some of the early flight lessons when the instructor would tell me
to head back to the airport ... and I just stared at the ground
wondering where the hell I was. These have nothing to do with
controlling or flying the airplane but are part of "real" flying.

If you think there are *no* similarities between flying an RC aircraft (of any cost)
and flying the real airplane, then more power to you.

Now you're comparing flying an RC airplane to getting a pilot's license for a real
airplane. Why not compare it to flying and landing an F/A-18 on a carrier. I'll bet
that's much different from landing an RC airplane in the grass.

True, when flying an RC airplane, the pilot never loses where *he* is. But, they
often lose where the airplane is. Happened to me a couple weeks ago. I flew the
airplane beyond my ability to see it. The clouds were much the same color as the
airplane. Had to yell for help. Young guy came and got it back for me.

Just calm down a bit. No one is trying to denigrate your experience in getting your
pilot's license. And, when you pushed that stick left or right, you were steering the
airplane, whether you like it or not!



Whatever you say Captain Herring. I admit that I have many more hours
logged flying for real than I have flying a RC airplane, standing on the
ground and controlling it with basically a game controller.
Maybe if I did it more often I'd learn how similar it is to the real thing.

Then again, probably not. No interest.


with a

Let's see...ingrained racist, Aunt Clara, Sheriff, and now Captain...all in a couple
months.

From now on, whenever you're flying your real airplane, you will think this:

"STICK LEFT, STEER LEFT"

"STICK RIGHT, STEER RIGHT"

That thought will become ingrained. Don't ever mistake it with countersteering!



Yup...we're on our way to Herring's 30+ posts today about toy airplanes.

What can I say? Eriksson keeps asking questions and I answer them. He then calls me
an asshole 'cause he doesn't like the answers.
--

Guns don't cause problems. The behavior
of certain gun owners causes problems.

Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
 

On 2/18/15 9:47 AM, Abit Loco wrote:
On Wed, 18 Feb 2015 08:27:14 -0500, Keyser Söze wrote:

On 2/18/15 8:17 AM, Abit Loco wrote:
On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 19:42:20 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/17/2015 6:39 PM, Abit Loco wrote:
On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 18:17:23 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/17/2015 5:58 PM, Abit Loco wrote:
On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 16:34:20 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/17/2015 12:16 PM, Abit Loco wrote:
On Mon, 16 Feb 2015 19:54:29 -0500, Keyser Söze wrote:

On 2/16/15 7:08 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/16/2015 6:31 PM, wrote:
On Monday, February 16, 2015 at 12:25:26 PM UTC-5, John H. wrote:

The big difference between simulators/real airplanes and RC airplanes
- in sims or
real planes, the nose of the plane is in front of you. With an RC
plane, at least
part of the time, the nose is pointed at you. That means the left and
right controls
are reversed. This, I believe, is what causes the most problems, at
least for me.

Another related difference is that pilots in a real plane has a seat
of the pants, first person view. Not so with RC.

Something that helps newbies to RC is that when the airplane is flying
towards you and the controls are reversed, your can turn your body so
the transmitter is faced the same way as the plane, but look back over
your shoulder at the plane. That way the stick moves to the right,
the plane moves to the right. It's a crutch, but with some more stick
time it'll come naturally.



I don't think there's much at all in common comparing RC flying and
flying a real airplane. Speed scale is totally different. Turns
and maneuvers are not anything close to being realistic to flying an
airplane.

I see it as a fun hobby for many but to compare it to actually flying
an airplane it isn't even close.



What happens when your toy plane crashes? It breaks.
What happens when a real airplane crashes? Death and destruction.

And that, my friends, is the big difference!



The chances of you crashing a real airplane are pretty slim compared to
crashing a RC. First of all, while under instruction your CFI isn't
keen on crashing. By the time you are ready to solo you will be well
qualified in the eyes of your instructor.

When you consider the number of people taking flight lessons every day
across the country and the number of small aircraft pilots flying every
day, the safety record is pretty high and the number of crashes are low.


Have you ever 'buddy-boxed' with an RC instructor pilot? While under instruction, the
instructor isn't keen on you ruining your airplane. He has a switch which immediately
gives him control of the aircraft if he thinks trouble is approaching.



When I was actively flying the thought of ruining the airplane never
crossed my mind.

John, if you want to believe that flying a $200 airplane by remote
control emulates flying a real airplane, more power to you.
I see them as two completely different experiences that require totally
different skill sets. Any licensed pilot can remember every single
detail of their first solo flight when the CFI was no longer sitting
beside you and once you went up ... getting down alive was entirely
dependent on you. Second is the cross country phase where navigation
becomes key. With RC flying you don't lose where you are. I remember
some of the early flight lessons when the instructor would tell me
to head back to the airport ... and I just stared at the ground
wondering where the hell I was. These have nothing to do with
controlling or flying the airplane but are part of "real" flying.

If you think there are *no* similarities between flying an RC aircraft (of any cost)
and flying the real airplane, then more power to you.

Now you're comparing flying an RC airplane to getting a pilot's license for a real
airplane. Why not compare it to flying and landing an F/A-18 on a carrier. I'll bet
that's much different from landing an RC airplane in the grass.

True, when flying an RC airplane, the pilot never loses where *he* is. But, they
often lose where the airplane is. Happened to me a couple weeks ago. I flew the
airplane beyond my ability to see it. The clouds were much the same color as the
airplane. Had to yell for help. Young guy came and got it back for me.

Just calm down a bit. No one is trying to denigrate your experience in getting your
pilot's license. And, when you pushed that stick left or right, you were steering the
airplane, whether you like it or not!



Whatever you say Captain Herring. I admit that I have many more hours
logged flying for real than I have flying a RC airplane, standing on the
ground and controlling it with basically a game controller.
Maybe if I did it more often I'd learn how similar it is to the real thing.

Then again, probably not. No interest.


with a

Let's see...ingrained racist, Aunt Clara, Sheriff, and now Captain...all in a couple
months.

From now on, whenever you're flying your real airplane, you will think this:

"STICK LEFT, STEER LEFT"

"STICK RIGHT, STEER RIGHT"

That thought will become ingrained. Don't ever mistake it with countersteering!



Yup...we're on our way to Herring's 30+ posts today about toy airplanes.

What can I say? Eriksson keeps asking questions and I answer them. He then calls me
an asshole 'cause he doesn't like the answers.



Actually, if he is calling you an asshole, it likely has little to do
with your answers and more to do with his perception of your ignorance,
arrogance, and attitude. Just a guess on my part. I'd never call you
ignorant, arrogant, and in need of an attitude adjustment. :)

--
Proud to be a Liberal.

Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
 

On Wed, 18 Feb 2015 09:49:45 -0500, Keyser Söze wrote:

On 2/18/15 9:47 AM, Abit Loco wrote:
On Wed, 18 Feb 2015 08:27:14 -0500, Keyser Söze wrote:

On 2/18/15 8:17 AM, Abit Loco wrote:
On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 19:42:20 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/17/2015 6:39 PM, Abit Loco wrote:
On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 18:17:23 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/17/2015 5:58 PM, Abit Loco wrote:
On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 16:34:20 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/17/2015 12:16 PM, Abit Loco wrote:
On Mon, 16 Feb 2015 19:54:29 -0500, Keyser Söze wrote:

On 2/16/15 7:08 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/16/2015 6:31 PM, wrote:
On Monday, February 16, 2015 at 12:25:26 PM UTC-5, John H. wrote:

The big difference between simulators/real airplanes and RC airplanes
- in sims or
real planes, the nose of the plane is in front of you. With an RC
plane, at least
part of the time, the nose is pointed at you. That means the left and
right controls
are reversed. This, I believe, is what causes the most problems, at
least for me.

Another related difference is that pilots in a real plane has a seat
of the pants, first person view. Not so with RC.

Something that helps newbies to RC is that when the airplane is flying
towards you and the controls are reversed, your can turn your body so
the transmitter is faced the same way as the plane, but look back over
your shoulder at the plane. That way the stick moves to the right,
the plane moves to the right. It's a crutch, but with some more stick
time it'll come naturally.



I don't think there's much at all in common comparing RC flying and
flying a real airplane. Speed scale is totally different. Turns
and maneuvers are not anything close to being realistic to flying an
airplane.

I see it as a fun hobby for many but to compare it to actually flying
an airplane it isn't even close.



What happens when your toy plane crashes? It breaks.
What happens when a real airplane crashes? Death and destruction.

And that, my friends, is the big difference!



The chances of you crashing a real airplane are pretty slim compared to
crashing a RC. First of all, while under instruction your CFI isn't
keen on crashing. By the time you are ready to solo you will be well
qualified in the eyes of your instructor.

When you consider the number of people taking flight lessons every day
across the country and the number of small aircraft pilots flying every
day, the safety record is pretty high and the number of crashes are low.


Have you ever 'buddy-boxed' with an RC instructor pilot? While under instruction, the
instructor isn't keen on you ruining your airplane. He has a switch which immediately
gives him control of the aircraft if he thinks trouble is approaching.



When I was actively flying the thought of ruining the airplane never
crossed my mind.

John, if you want to believe that flying a $200 airplane by remote
control emulates flying a real airplane, more power to you.
I see them as two completely different experiences that require totally
different skill sets. Any licensed pilot can remember every single
detail of their first solo flight when the CFI was no longer sitting
beside you and once you went up ... getting down alive was entirely
dependent on you. Second is the cross country phase where navigation
becomes key. With RC flying you don't lose where you are. I remember
some of the early flight lessons when the instructor would tell me
to head back to the airport ... and I just stared at the ground
wondering where the hell I was. These have nothing to do with
controlling or flying the airplane but are part of "real" flying.

If you think there are *no* similarities between flying an RC aircraft (of any cost)
and flying the real airplane, then more power to you.

Now you're comparing flying an RC airplane to getting a pilot's license for a real
airplane. Why not compare it to flying and landing an F/A-18 on a carrier. I'll bet
that's much different from landing an RC airplane in the grass.

True, when flying an RC airplane, the pilot never loses where *he* is. But, they
often lose where the airplane is. Happened to me a couple weeks ago. I flew the
airplane beyond my ability to see it. The clouds were much the same color as the
airplane. Had to yell for help. Young guy came and got it back for me.

Just calm down a bit. No one is trying to denigrate your experience in getting your
pilot's license. And, when you pushed that stick left or right, you were steering the
airplane, whether you like it or not!



Whatever you say Captain Herring. I admit that I have many more hours
logged flying for real than I have flying a RC airplane, standing on the
ground and controlling it with basically a game controller.
Maybe if I did it more often I'd learn how similar it is to the real thing.

Then again, probably not. No interest.


with a

Let's see...ingrained racist, Aunt Clara, Sheriff, and now Captain...all in a couple
months.

From now on, whenever you're flying your real airplane, you will think this:

"STICK LEFT, STEER LEFT"

"STICK RIGHT, STEER RIGHT"

That thought will become ingrained. Don't ever mistake it with countersteering!



Yup...we're on our way to Herring's 30+ posts today about toy airplanes.

What can I say? Eriksson keeps asking questions and I answer them. He then calls me
an asshole 'cause he doesn't like the answers.



Actually, if he is calling you an asshole, it likely has little to do
with your answers and more to do with his perception of your ignorance,
arrogance, and attitude. Just a guess on my part. I'd never call you
ignorant, arrogant, and in need of an attitude adjustment. :)

Well, I'm sure you earned at least 12 points for that. Good show.
--

Guns don't cause problems. The behavior
of certain gun owners causes problems.

Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
 

On 2/18/2015 8:19 AM, Abit Loco wrote:
On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 19:47:19 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/17/2015 6:30 PM, Abit Loco wrote:
On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 16:46:45 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/17/2015 12:44 PM, Abit Loco wrote:
On Mon, 16 Feb 2015 20:35:18 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/16/2015 8:18 PM, wrote:
On Monday, February 16, 2015 at 7:08:10 PM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/16/2015 6:31 PM, wrote:
On Monday, February 16, 2015 at 12:25:26 PM UTC-5, John H. wrote:

The big difference between simulators/real airplanes and RC airplanes - in sims or
real planes, the nose of the plane is in front of you. With an RC plane, at least
part of the time, the nose is pointed at you. That means the left and right controls
are reversed. This, I believe, is what causes the most problems, at least for me.

Another related difference is that pilots in a real plane has a seat of the pants, first person view. Not so with RC.

Something that helps newbies to RC is that when the airplane is flying towards you and the controls are reversed, your can turn your body so the transmitter is faced the same way as the plane, but look back over your shoulder at the plane. That way the stick moves to the right, the plane moves to the right. It's a crutch, but with some more stick time it'll come naturally.



I don't think there's much at all in common comparing RC flying and
flying a real airplane. Speed scale is totally different. Turns
and maneuvers are not anything close to being realistic to flying an
airplane.

I see it as a fun hobby for many but to compare it to actually flying
an airplane it isn't even close.

If you think about it, it's very similar. The same rules apply, the aircraft reacts the same way. RC planes can do things that real planes can't, but they also suffer from the fact that they don't fly quite the same way. Said another way, the air molecules are still the same size, while the wings and control surfaces of RC planes are far smaller. That's why truly scale RC planes don't tend to fly very well.

Good RC pilots can fly very realistically. I saw a jet done up in Fed-Ex colors being flown slowly and with coordinated turns. It looked very real, except for the size, although it was still large with about a 10 foot wingspan.

But while you may have not meant it, your attitude is common with "real" pilots. They think of RC planes as toys. And they crash them when they first try to fly them, thinking that if they can fly the real thing, they can fly the toy. They cannot. :)

Real pilots hope to walk away from a crash. RC pilots walk towards it!



I wasn't knocking RC flying. I know a lot of people enjoy it. I also
know a lot of people who think it's similar to actual flying (which it
isn't). As you point out the scale is totally different, the power to
weight ratio is different and the control surfaces behave differently.
I've tried a couple once in flight. You're right. I can land an
airplane but I'd crash an RC if I tried applying my flying instincts and
control.

Back when I was flying I used to play with whatever the current version
of Microsoft Flight Simulator was at the time. I had the yoke and pedal
controller set up. It was not exactly like flying but was pretty close
in many ways, especially how the wing surfaces reacted in the simulator.
Even more realistic when you added in a little "weather" and turbulence.
I think that was much closer to the "feel" of actually flying than a RC
plane can ever be.


Flight simulators such as Microsoft's have very, very little resemblance to RC
flying.

You keep saying its not similar to actual flying. How do the control surfaces behave
differently? What is the power to weight ration of the 'real' airplanes to which you
refer? Do RC airplanes have a lot more power to weight? Less?

Here are the motor specs for my motor:

Power 15 Brushless Outrunner Motor, 950Kv
Key Features

Equivalent to a 15-size glow engine for sport and scale airplanes weighing 36–56
oz (1020–1590 g)
Ideal for 3D airplanes weighing 32–40 oz (910–1135 g)
Ideal for models requiring up to 575 watts of power
High-torque, direct-drive alternative to inrunner brushless motors
Includes mount, prop adapters and mounting hardware
External rotor design—5mm shaft can easily be reversed for alternative motor
installations
Slotted 14-pole outrunner design
High-quality construction with ball bearings and hardened steel shaft

Here are my airplane specs:

Apprentice S 15e RTF with SAFE
Product Specifications
Wingspan: 59.0 in (1500mm)
Overall Length: 42.5 in (1080mm)
Wing Area: 515 sq. in. (33.2 sq. dm.)
Flying Weight: 49.0 oz (1390 g)
Motor Size: 15-size brushless outrunner
Radio: Spektrum DX5e transmitter (included)
CG (center of gravity): 3-1/8 in (79.0mm) back from the leading edge of wing
Prop Size: 11 x 8
Speed Control : 30-amp brushless (installed)
Recommended Battery: 11.1V 3S 3200mAh LiPo (included)
Flaps: No
Retracts: No
Control Throw (Ailerons): Low: 0.71 in (18mm); High: 0.91 in (23mm)
Control Throw (Elevator): Low: 0.71 in (18mm); High: 0.91 in (23mm)
Control Throw (Rudder): Low: 1.10 in (28mm); High: 1.35 in (35mm)

How does one compare the 'power to weight' ratio?

RC planes can climb faster than any comparable
"real" airplane. How fast can you climb? Pretty much like a rocket.
A real airplane doesn't climb like that and to try it would result in
a stall very quickly. A real airplane requires taking weight,
temperature, altitude and air density as factors. With RC flying, none
of those issues matter much.

Try flying a real airplane. Then you are qualified to judge and compare.

If I tried to climb vertically with the Apprentice, I'd be in a stall very quickly.
if the power is up it will do a loop, but not climb like the 3D planes discussed
earlier.

It's absolutely true that I don't worry much about temperature and air density as
factors. Weight and its distribution are important, as is altitude. Too high and I've
violated FCC regs and/or lost sight of the aircraft.

A real F/A-18 will probably climb faster than any of the scale RC aircraft and is
probably much faster. I've never seen any RC aircraft that could climb at 50,000
feet/min or fly 1000 mph, and that would include a scale RC F/A-18. But, maybe you
have.



A little sensitive about your newly found hobby, aren't you?



Do my comments about an F/A-18 sound sensitive? Or was that just the best rebuttal
you could come up with? You were the one telling us what real airplanes could not do.


I don't know why you two can't get along. It's not as if either one of
you is a Harry Krause type.

--

Respectfully submitted by Justan

Laugh of the day from Krause

"I'm not to blame anymore for the atmosphere in here.
I've been "born again" as a nice guy."

Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
 

On 2/18/2015 9:08 AM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 2/18/15 9:01 AM, Abit Loco wrote:

Gosh, and here just a while back you were telling me my 18'er was way
too small for
the bay.

Gosh, Harry. You sure do change stories a lot.


When was that, John? During one of your anesthesia induced surgeries?


Sounds just like something Donnie would say

--

Respectfully submitted by Justan

Laugh of the day from Krause

"I'm not to blame anymore for the atmosphere in here.
I've been "born again" as a nice guy."

Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
 

On Wed, 18 Feb 2015 11:10:31 -0500, Justan Olphart wrote:

On 2/18/2015 8:19 AM, Abit Loco wrote:
On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 19:47:19 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/17/2015 6:30 PM, Abit Loco wrote:
On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 16:46:45 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/17/2015 12:44 PM, Abit Loco wrote:
On Mon, 16 Feb 2015 20:35:18 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/16/2015 8:18 PM, wrote:
On Monday, February 16, 2015 at 7:08:10 PM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/16/2015 6:31 PM, wrote:
On Monday, February 16, 2015 at 12:25:26 PM UTC-5, John H. wrote:

The big difference between simulators/real airplanes and RC airplanes - in sims or
real planes, the nose of the plane is in front of you. With an RC plane, at least
part of the time, the nose is pointed at you. That means the left and right controls
are reversed. This, I believe, is what causes the most problems, at least for me.

Another related difference is that pilots in a real plane has a seat of the pants, first person view. Not so with RC.

Something that helps newbies to RC is that when the airplane is flying towards you and the controls are reversed, your can turn your body so the transmitter is faced the same way as the plane, but look back over your shoulder at the plane. That way the stick moves to the right, the plane moves to the right. It's a crutch, but with some more stick time it'll come naturally.



I don't think there's much at all in common comparing RC flying and
flying a real airplane. Speed scale is totally different. Turns
and maneuvers are not anything close to being realistic to flying an
airplane.

I see it as a fun hobby for many but to compare it to actually flying
an airplane it isn't even close.

If you think about it, it's very similar. The same rules apply, the aircraft reacts the same way. RC planes can do things that real planes can't, but they also suffer from the fact that they don't fly quite the same way. Said another way, the air molecules are still the same size, while the wings and control surfaces of RC planes are far smaller. That's why truly scale RC planes don't tend to fly very well.

Good RC pilots can fly very realistically. I saw a jet done up in Fed-Ex colors being flown slowly and with coordinated turns. It looked very real, except for the size, although it was still large with about a 10 foot wingspan.

But while you may have not meant it, your attitude is common with "real" pilots. They think of RC planes as toys. And they crash them when they first try to fly them, thinking that if they can fly the real thing, they can fly the toy. They cannot. :)

Real pilots hope to walk away from a crash. RC pilots walk towards it!



I wasn't knocking RC flying. I know a lot of people enjoy it. I also
know a lot of people who think it's similar to actual flying (which it
isn't). As you point out the scale is totally different, the power to
weight ratio is different and the control surfaces behave differently.
I've tried a couple once in flight. You're right. I can land an
airplane but I'd crash an RC if I tried applying my flying instincts and
control.

Back when I was flying I used to play with whatever the current version
of Microsoft Flight Simulator was at the time. I had the yoke and pedal
controller set up. It was not exactly like flying but was pretty close
in many ways, especially how the wing surfaces reacted in the simulator.
Even more realistic when you added in a little "weather" and turbulence.
I think that was much closer to the "feel" of actually flying than a RC
plane can ever be.


Flight simulators such as Microsoft's have very, very little resemblance to RC
flying.

You keep saying its not similar to actual flying. How do the control surfaces behave
differently? What is the power to weight ration of the 'real' airplanes to which you
refer? Do RC airplanes have a lot more power to weight? Less?

Here are the motor specs for my motor:

Power 15 Brushless Outrunner Motor, 950Kv
Key Features

Equivalent to a 15-size glow engine for sport and scale airplanes weighing 36–56
oz (1020–1590 g)
Ideal for 3D airplanes weighing 32–40 oz (910–1135 g)
Ideal for models requiring up to 575 watts of power
High-torque, direct-drive alternative to inrunner brushless motors
Includes mount, prop adapters and mounting hardware
External rotor design—5mm shaft can easily be reversed for alternative motor
installations
Slotted 14-pole outrunner design
High-quality construction with ball bearings and hardened steel shaft

Here are my airplane specs:

Apprentice S 15e RTF with SAFE
Product Specifications
Wingspan: 59.0 in (1500mm)
Overall Length: 42.5 in (1080mm)
Wing Area: 515 sq. in. (33.2 sq. dm.)
Flying Weight: 49.0 oz (1390 g)
Motor Size: 15-size brushless outrunner
Radio: Spektrum DX5e transmitter (included)
CG (center of gravity): 3-1/8 in (79.0mm) back from the leading edge of wing
Prop Size: 11 x 8
Speed Control : 30-amp brushless (installed)
Recommended Battery: 11.1V 3S 3200mAh LiPo (included)
Flaps: No
Retracts: No
Control Throw (Ailerons): Low: 0.71 in (18mm); High: 0.91 in (23mm)
Control Throw (Elevator): Low: 0.71 in (18mm); High: 0.91 in (23mm)
Control Throw (Rudder): Low: 1.10 in (28mm); High: 1.35 in (35mm)

How does one compare the 'power to weight' ratio?

RC planes can climb faster than any comparable
"real" airplane. How fast can you climb? Pretty much like a rocket.
A real airplane doesn't climb like that and to try it would result in
a stall very quickly. A real airplane requires taking weight,
temperature, altitude and air density as factors. With RC flying, none
of those issues matter much.

Try flying a real airplane. Then you are qualified to judge and compare.

If I tried to climb vertically with the Apprentice, I'd be in a stall very quickly.
if the power is up it will do a loop, but not climb like the 3D planes discussed
earlier.

It's absolutely true that I don't worry much about temperature and air density as
factors. Weight and its distribution are important, as is altitude. Too high and I've
violated FCC regs and/or lost sight of the aircraft.

A real F/A-18 will probably climb faster than any of the scale RC aircraft and is
probably much faster. I've never seen any RC aircraft that could climb at 50,000
feet/min or fly 1000 mph, and that would include a scale RC F/A-18. But, maybe you
have.



A little sensitive about your newly found hobby, aren't you?



Do my comments about an F/A-18 sound sensitive? Or was that just the best rebuttal
you could come up with? You were the one telling us what real airplanes could not do.


I don't know why you two can't get along. It's not as if either one of
you is a Harry Krause type.

I'm trying to answer his questions as best I can. I'm thinking the RC aircraft he
flew was his neighbor's quadcopter. That would explain all the questions he had about
flying an RC airplane.
--

Guns don't cause problems. The behavior
of certain gun owners causes problems.

Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
 

On Wed, 18 Feb 2015 08:58:19 -0500, Abit Loco
wrote:

On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 20:41:57 -0500, Wayne.B wrote:

On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 17:10:34 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:

This is really funny stuff...thanks, Luddite. :) And remember, driving
that RC boat in a swimming pool is just like driving a real boat through
a ferocious inlet. I mean, what's the difference?

===

What the heck would you know about driving a *real* boat through a
ferocious inlet? Really.

With regard to Dick's suggestion about taking a flying lesson, I
highly recommend it. Introductory lessons are usually priced at
reasonable rates and it will give you a taste of the real deal. You'll
find it quite interesting. My first lesson was in a Piper J3 tail
dragger with no doors or windows and controlled with a "stick".
It was about as basic as you can get short of an ultra light.

I'd like to find someone who would take me and a couple grandkids up in one of those
piper style airplanes.

===

The Piper that I went up was only a two place plane. There are lots
of Cessna 172s around that would be quite suitable.

Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
 

On Wed, 18 Feb 2015 09:41:15 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 2/18/15 9:11 AM, Abit Loco wrote:
On Wed, 18 Feb 2015 08:25:08 -0500, Keyser Söze wrote:

On 2/18/15 8:09 AM, Abit Loco wrote:
On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 21:46:53 -0500, Wayne.B wrote:

On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 19:34:16 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:

Don't need to. Not interested in getting a 'real' pilot's license. I have a hard
enough time with RC planes - as do a lot of 'real' pilots, and I'm not talking piper
cub guys.



This just gets funnier and funnier. :)

===

Why the heck are you in this discussion?

Accumulating points with Eriksson, why else?



Oh, please. Richard and I disagree on a lot of subjects, and never will
agree on most of them. I'm giggling at you and your comments about toy
airplanes, your obsession with them, and your claims that flying toy
airplanes and flying real airplanes require similar skills.

Perhaps you see yourself as a *real* pilot. Some might see you as a
disintegrating old fart with nothing real to do, too much time on your
hands, and an endless list of hobbies. I'm not saying *I* see you that
way, but some might, eh?

Touched a nerve, eh?


What? I'm not the one who has had a seemingly endless list of surgeries,
or the one with nothing real to do, or the one with an endless list of
hobbies.

===

Do you routinely make fun of people who need surgery? If so, you
should do some volunteer work at a hospital where you could indulge
your hobby 10 times a day.

Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
 

On Wed, 18 Feb 2015 07:52:38 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:

Are you going to put up another set of 30-40 posts today about your toy
model airplanes? How about mixing in some golf, RV, hillbilly music,
steel ammo posts, just for, oh, variety? And perhaps a few about your
surgeries, past, present, and future...

===

Putz.

Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
 

On Wed, 18 Feb 2015 09:06:23 -0500, Abit Loco
wrote:

On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 20:44:29 -0500, Wayne.B wrote:

On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 17:22:57 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

This is a common debate between RC pilots and those who hold a pilot's
license. Like I said before I don't knock those to enjoy the RC thing.
It's fun for many but it's a totally different experience.
Sure, there are similarities in the respect that both have wings
and go up in the air. But that's about it.

I did all of my flight instruction in a Cessna 152. After I soloed I
flew the 152 and a 150 quite a bit. I did the cross country phase and
final check flight for my ticket in a Cessna 172. All the Cessna's were
high winged aircraft.

After a while I wanted to try something different, so I arranged for a
checkout flight in a Piper Warrior which is more powerful and low
winged. Felt like I was flying a Boeing 747 by comparison.

That all said, I am glad I did it but I also realized I am not a
"natural" pilot who enjoys the stresses of flying. I like boating much
more.

===

I agree with all that, and most importantly, boats do not fall from
the sky when you screw up. :-)

Don't these new boats have the S.A.F.E. technology? I'll bet Harry's does, so he can
navigate ferocious inlets.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZpFSE2pUI0

I've never used my SAFE switch. Never had enough time to get to it.

===

I assume you mean panic mode?


The beginners mode sounds highly desirable while you're just getting
started.

Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
 

On Wed, 18 Feb 2015 12:27:46 -0500, Wayne.B wrote:

On Wed, 18 Feb 2015 09:41:15 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 2/18/15 9:11 AM, Abit Loco wrote:
On Wed, 18 Feb 2015 08:25:08 -0500, Keyser Söze wrote:

On 2/18/15 8:09 AM, Abit Loco wrote:
On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 21:46:53 -0500, Wayne.B wrote:

On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 19:34:16 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:

Don't need to. Not interested in getting a 'real' pilot's license. I have a hard
enough time with RC planes - as do a lot of 'real' pilots, and I'm not talking piper
cub guys.



This just gets funnier and funnier. :)

===

Why the heck are you in this discussion?

Accumulating points with Eriksson, why else?



Oh, please. Richard and I disagree on a lot of subjects, and never will
agree on most of them. I'm giggling at you and your comments about toy
airplanes, your obsession with them, and your claims that flying toy
airplanes and flying real airplanes require similar skills.

Perhaps you see yourself as a *real* pilot. Some might see you as a
disintegrating old fart with nothing real to do, too much time on your
hands, and an endless list of hobbies. I'm not saying *I* see you that
way, but some might, eh?

Touched a nerve, eh?


What? I'm not the one who has had a seemingly endless list of surgeries,
or the one with nothing real to do, or the one with an endless list of
hobbies.

===

Do you routinely make fun of people who need surgery? If so, you
should do some volunteer work at a hospital where you could indulge
your hobby 10 times a day.

Good idea.
--

Guns don't cause problems. The behavior
of certain gun owners causes problems.

Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
 

On Wed, 18 Feb 2015 12:40:26 -0500, Wayne.B wrote:

On Wed, 18 Feb 2015 09:06:23 -0500, Abit Loco
wrote:

On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 20:44:29 -0500, Wayne.B wrote:

On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 17:22:57 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

This is a common debate between RC pilots and those who hold a pilot's
license. Like I said before I don't knock those to enjoy the RC thing.
It's fun for many but it's a totally different experience.
Sure, there are similarities in the respect that both have wings
and go up in the air. But that's about it.

I did all of my flight instruction in a Cessna 152. After I soloed I
flew the 152 and a 150 quite a bit. I did the cross country phase and
final check flight for my ticket in a Cessna 172. All the Cessna's were
high winged aircraft.

After a while I wanted to try something different, so I arranged for a
checkout flight in a Piper Warrior which is more powerful and low
winged. Felt like I was flying a Boeing 747 by comparison.

That all said, I am glad I did it but I also realized I am not a
"natural" pilot who enjoys the stresses of flying. I like boating much
more.

===

I agree with all that, and most importantly, boats do not fall from
the sky when you screw up. :-)

Don't these new boats have the S.A.F.E. technology? I'll bet Harry's does, so he can
navigate ferocious inlets.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZpFSE2pUI0

I've never used my SAFE switch. Never had enough time to get to it.

===

I assume you mean panic mode?


The beginners mode sounds highly desirable while you're just getting
started.

Yeah, panic mode. The beginner's mode takes a lot of room. The plane will not turn,
climb, or desend as rapidly. I flew it in beginner's mode when I first got it, but
twice put it in trees because it wouldn't climb fast enough. Upon lots of advice, I
quit flying in beginner's mode.
--

Guns don't cause problems. The behavior
of certain gun owners causes problems.

Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
 

On 2/18/15 1:41 PM, Stick Left-Steer Left wrote:
On Wed, 18 Feb 2015 12:40:26 -0500, Wayne.B wrote:

On Wed, 18 Feb 2015 09:06:23 -0500, Abit Loco
wrote:

On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 20:44:29 -0500, Wayne.B wrote:

On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 17:22:57 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

This is a common debate between RC pilots and those who hold a pilot's
license. Like I said before I don't knock those to enjoy the RC thing.
It's fun for many but it's a totally different experience.
Sure, there are similarities in the respect that both have wings
and go up in the air. But that's about it.

I did all of my flight instruction in a Cessna 152. After I soloed I
flew the 152 and a 150 quite a bit. I did the cross country phase and
final check flight for my ticket in a Cessna 172. All the Cessna's were
high winged aircraft.

After a while I wanted to try something different, so I arranged for a
checkout flight in a Piper Warrior which is more powerful and low
winged. Felt like I was flying a Boeing 747 by comparison.

That all said, I am glad I did it but I also realized I am not a
"natural" pilot who enjoys the stresses of flying. I like boating much
more.

===

I agree with all that, and most importantly, boats do not fall from
the sky when you screw up. :-)

Don't these new boats have the S.A.F.E. technology? I'll bet Harry's does, so he can
navigate ferocious inlets.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZpFSE2pUI0

I've never used my SAFE switch. Never had enough time to get to it.

===

I assume you mean panic mode?


The beginners mode sounds highly desirable while you're just getting
started.

Yeah, panic mode. The beginner's mode takes a lot of room. The plane will not turn,
climb, or desend as rapidly. I flew it in beginner's mode when I first got it, but
twice put it in trees because it wouldn't climb fast enough. Upon lots of advice, I
quit flying in beginner's mode.


You must be approaching 30 posts so far today on your toy
airplanes...will you set a record? Stay tuned.

--
Proud to be a Liberal.

Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
 

On Wed, 18 Feb 2015 13:43:24 -0500, Keyser Söze wrote:

On 2/18/15 1:41 PM, Stick Left-Steer Left wrote:
On Wed, 18 Feb 2015 12:40:26 -0500, Wayne.B wrote:

On Wed, 18 Feb 2015 09:06:23 -0500, Abit Loco
wrote:

On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 20:44:29 -0500, Wayne.B wrote:

On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 17:22:57 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

This is a common debate between RC pilots and those who hold a pilot's
license. Like I said before I don't knock those to enjoy the RC thing.
It's fun for many but it's a totally different experience.
Sure, there are similarities in the respect that both have wings
and go up in the air. But that's about it.

I did all of my flight instruction in a Cessna 152. After I soloed I
flew the 152 and a 150 quite a bit. I did the cross country phase and
final check flight for my ticket in a Cessna 172. All the Cessna's were
high winged aircraft.

After a while I wanted to try something different, so I arranged for a
checkout flight in a Piper Warrior which is more powerful and low
winged. Felt like I was flying a Boeing 747 by comparison.

That all said, I am glad I did it but I also realized I am not a
"natural" pilot who enjoys the stresses of flying. I like boating much
more.

===

I agree with all that, and most importantly, boats do not fall from
the sky when you screw up. :-)

Don't these new boats have the S.A.F.E. technology? I'll bet Harry's does, so he can
navigate ferocious inlets.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZpFSE2pUI0

I've never used my SAFE switch. Never had enough time to get to it.

===

I assume you mean panic mode?


The beginners mode sounds highly desirable while you're just getting
started.

Yeah, panic mode. The beginner's mode takes a lot of room. The plane will not turn,
climb, or desend as rapidly. I flew it in beginner's mode when I first got it, but
twice put it in trees because it wouldn't climb fast enough. Upon lots of advice, I
quit flying in beginner's mode.


You must be approaching 30 posts so far today on your toy
airplanes...will you set a record? Stay tuned.

Would you rather see anti-social ****?
--

Guns don't cause problems. The behavior
of certain gun owners causes problems.

Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
 

On 2/18/15 1:47 PM, Stick Left-Steer Left wrote:
On Wed, 18 Feb 2015 13:43:24 -0500, Keyser Söze wrote:

On 2/18/15 1:41 PM, Stick Left-Steer Left wrote:
On Wed, 18 Feb 2015 12:40:26 -0500, Wayne.B wrote:

On Wed, 18 Feb 2015 09:06:23 -0500, Abit Loco
wrote:

On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 20:44:29 -0500, Wayne.B wrote:

On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 17:22:57 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

This is a common debate between RC pilots and those who hold a pilot's
license. Like I said before I don't knock those to enjoy the RC thing.
It's fun for many but it's a totally different experience.
Sure, there are similarities in the respect that both have wings
and go up in the air. But that's about it.

I did all of my flight instruction in a Cessna 152. After I soloed I
flew the 152 and a 150 quite a bit. I did the cross country phase and
final check flight for my ticket in a Cessna 172. All the Cessna's were
high winged aircraft.

After a while I wanted to try something different, so I arranged for a
checkout flight in a Piper Warrior which is more powerful and low
winged. Felt like I was flying a Boeing 747 by comparison.

That all said, I am glad I did it but I also realized I am not a
"natural" pilot who enjoys the stresses of flying. I like boating much
more.

===

I agree with all that, and most importantly, boats do not fall from
the sky when you screw up. :-)

Don't these new boats have the S.A.F.E. technology? I'll bet Harry's does, so he can
navigate ferocious inlets.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZpFSE2pUI0

I've never used my SAFE switch. Never had enough time to get to it.

===

I assume you mean panic mode?


The beginners mode sounds highly desirable while you're just getting
started.

Yeah, panic mode. The beginner's mode takes a lot of room. The plane will not turn,
climb, or desend as rapidly. I flew it in beginner's mode when I first got it, but
twice put it in trees because it wouldn't climb fast enough. Upon lots of advice, I
quit flying in beginner's mode.


You must be approaching 30 posts so far today on your toy
airplanes...will you set a record? Stay tuned.

Would you rather see anti-social ****?


Are you referring to your racist, anti-black posts?

--
Proud to be a Liberal.

Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
 

On Wed, 18 Feb 2015 13:48:44 -0500, Keyser Söze wrote:

On 2/18/15 1:47 PM, Stick Left-Steer Left wrote:
On Wed, 18 Feb 2015 13:43:24 -0500, Keyser Söze wrote:

On 2/18/15 1:41 PM, Stick Left-Steer Left wrote:
On Wed, 18 Feb 2015 12:40:26 -0500, Wayne.B wrote:

On Wed, 18 Feb 2015 09:06:23 -0500, Abit Loco
wrote:

On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 20:44:29 -0500, Wayne.B wrote:

On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 17:22:57 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

This is a common debate between RC pilots and those who hold a pilot's
license. Like I said before I don't knock those to enjoy the RC thing.
It's fun for many but it's a totally different experience.
Sure, there are similarities in the respect that both have wings
and go up in the air. But that's about it.

I did all of my flight instruction in a Cessna 152. After I soloed I
flew the 152 and a 150 quite a bit. I did the cross country phase and
final check flight for my ticket in a Cessna 172. All the Cessna's were
high winged aircraft.

After a while I wanted to try something different, so I arranged for a
checkout flight in a Piper Warrior which is more powerful and low
winged. Felt like I was flying a Boeing 747 by comparison.

That all said, I am glad I did it but I also realized I am not a
"natural" pilot who enjoys the stresses of flying. I like boating much
more.

===

I agree with all that, and most importantly, boats do not fall from
the sky when you screw up. :-)

Don't these new boats have the S.A.F.E. technology? I'll bet Harry's does, so he can
navigate ferocious inlets.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZpFSE2pUI0

I've never used my SAFE switch. Never had enough time to get to it.

===

I assume you mean panic mode?


The beginners mode sounds highly desirable while you're just getting
started.

Yeah, panic mode. The beginner's mode takes a lot of room. The plane will not turn,
climb, or desend as rapidly. I flew it in beginner's mode when I first got it, but
twice put it in trees because it wouldn't climb fast enough. Upon lots of advice, I
quit flying in beginner's mode.


You must be approaching 30 posts so far today on your toy
airplanes...will you set a record? Stay tuned.

Would you rather see anti-social ****?


Are you referring to your racist, anti-black posts?

I'm referring to the last 247 posts you've made.

The Bozo's Bin...is it full yet? Are you heeding Eriksson's advice - if you don't
like it, don't read it?
--

Guns don't cause problems. The behavior
of certain gun owners causes problems.

Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
 

On 2/18/2015 8:19 AM, Abit Loco wrote:
On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 19:47:19 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/17/2015 6:30 PM, Abit Loco wrote:
On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 16:46:45 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/17/2015 12:44 PM, Abit Loco wrote:
On Mon, 16 Feb 2015 20:35:18 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/16/2015 8:18 PM, wrote:
On Monday, February 16, 2015 at 7:08:10 PM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/16/2015 6:31 PM, wrote:
On Monday, February 16, 2015 at 12:25:26 PM UTC-5, John H. wrote:

The big difference between simulators/real airplanes and RC airplanes - in sims or
real planes, the nose of the plane is in front of you. With an RC plane, at least
part of the time, the nose is pointed at you. That means the left and right controls
are reversed. This, I believe, is what causes the most problems, at least for me.

Another related difference is that pilots in a real plane has a seat of the pants, first person view. Not so with RC.

Something that helps newbies to RC is that when the airplane is flying towards you and the controls are reversed, your can turn your body so the transmitter is faced the same way as the plane, but look back over your shoulder at the plane. That way the stick moves to the right, the plane moves to the right. It's a crutch, but with some more stick time it'll come naturally.



I don't think there's much at all in common comparing RC flying and
flying a real airplane. Speed scale is totally different. Turns
and maneuvers are not anything close to being realistic to flying an
airplane.

I see it as a fun hobby for many but to compare it to actually flying
an airplane it isn't even close.

If you think about it, it's very similar. The same rules apply, the aircraft reacts the same way. RC planes can do things that real planes can't, but they also suffer from the fact that they don't fly quite the same way. Said another way, the air molecules are still the same size, while the wings and control surfaces of RC planes are far smaller. That's why truly scale RC planes don't tend to fly very well.

Good RC pilots can fly very realistically. I saw a jet done up in Fed-Ex colors being flown slowly and with coordinated turns. It looked very real, except for the size, although it was still large with about a 10 foot wingspan.

But while you may have not meant it, your attitude is common with "real" pilots. They think of RC planes as toys. And they crash them when they first try to fly them, thinking that if they can fly the real thing, they can fly the toy. They cannot. :)

Real pilots hope to walk away from a crash. RC pilots walk towards it!



I wasn't knocking RC flying. I know a lot of people enjoy it. I also
know a lot of people who think it's similar to actual flying (which it
isn't). As you point out the scale is totally different, the power to
weight ratio is different and the control surfaces behave differently.
I've tried a couple once in flight. You're right. I can land an
airplane but I'd crash an RC if I tried applying my flying instincts and
control.

Back when I was flying I used to play with whatever the current version
of Microsoft Flight Simulator was at the time. I had the yoke and pedal
controller set up. It was not exactly like flying but was pretty close
in many ways, especially how the wing surfaces reacted in the simulator.
Even more realistic when you added in a little "weather" and turbulence.
I think that was much closer to the "feel" of actually flying than a RC
plane can ever be.


Flight simulators such as Microsoft's have very, very little resemblance to RC
flying.

You keep saying its not similar to actual flying. How do the control surfaces behave
differently? What is the power to weight ration of the 'real' airplanes to which you
refer? Do RC airplanes have a lot more power to weight? Less?

Here are the motor specs for my motor:

Power 15 Brushless Outrunner Motor, 950Kv
Key Features

Equivalent to a 15-size glow engine for sport and scale airplanes weighing 36–56
oz (1020–1590 g)
Ideal for 3D airplanes weighing 32–40 oz (910–1135 g)
Ideal for models requiring up to 575 watts of power
High-torque, direct-drive alternative to inrunner brushless motors
Includes mount, prop adapters and mounting hardware
External rotor design—5mm shaft can easily be reversed for alternative motor
installations
Slotted 14-pole outrunner design
High-quality construction with ball bearings and hardened steel shaft

Here are my airplane specs:

Apprentice S 15e RTF with SAFE
Product Specifications
Wingspan: 59.0 in (1500mm)
Overall Length: 42.5 in (1080mm)
Wing Area: 515 sq. in. (33.2 sq. dm.)
Flying Weight: 49.0 oz (1390 g)
Motor Size: 15-size brushless outrunner
Radio: Spektrum DX5e transmitter (included)
CG (center of gravity): 3-1/8 in (79.0mm) back from the leading edge of wing
Prop Size: 11 x 8
Speed Control : 30-amp brushless (installed)
Recommended Battery: 11.1V 3S 3200mAh LiPo (included)
Flaps: No
Retracts: No
Control Throw (Ailerons): Low: 0.71 in (18mm); High: 0.91 in (23mm)
Control Throw (Elevator): Low: 0.71 in (18mm); High: 0.91 in (23mm)
Control Throw (Rudder): Low: 1.10 in (28mm); High: 1.35 in (35mm)

How does one compare the 'power to weight' ratio?

RC planes can climb faster than any comparable
"real" airplane. How fast can you climb? Pretty much like a rocket.
A real airplane doesn't climb like that and to try it would result in
a stall very quickly. A real airplane requires taking weight,
temperature, altitude and air density as factors. With RC flying, none
of those issues matter much.

Try flying a real airplane. Then you are qualified to judge and compare.

If I tried to climb vertically with the Apprentice, I'd be in a stall very quickly.
if the power is up it will do a loop, but not climb like the 3D planes discussed
earlier.

It's absolutely true that I don't worry much about temperature and air density as
factors. Weight and its distribution are important, as is altitude. Too high and I've
violated FCC regs and/or lost sight of the aircraft.

A real F/A-18 will probably climb faster than any of the scale RC aircraft and is
probably much faster. I've never seen any RC aircraft that could climb at 50,000
feet/min or fly 1000 mph, and that would include a scale RC F/A-18. But, maybe you
have.



A little sensitive about your newly found hobby, aren't you?



Do my comments about an F/A-18 sound sensitive? Or was that just the best rebuttal
you could come up with? You were the one telling us what real airplanes could not do.



For Christ's sake John, we are talking about model replicas of small,
recreational aircraft, not a F/A-18. I am not interested in your silly
arguments and comparisons. If you enjoy flying your RC airplane ...
have a ball. BTW ... in response to someone else's comment ... I
pursued and got my ticket years before I had much extra $$ to spend.
It was a dream I had since I was a little kid and I am very glad to have
accomplished it even though it turns out it was not something I wanted
to stay heavily involved in.

Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
 

On 2/18/2015 11:19 AM, Stick Left-Steer Left wrote:
On Wed, 18 Feb 2015 11:10:31 -0500, Justan Olphart wrote:

On 2/18/2015 8:19 AM, Abit Loco wrote:
On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 19:47:19 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/17/2015 6:30 PM, Abit Loco wrote:
On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 16:46:45 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/17/2015 12:44 PM, Abit Loco wrote:
On Mon, 16 Feb 2015 20:35:18 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/16/2015 8:18 PM, wrote:
On Monday, February 16, 2015 at 7:08:10 PM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/16/2015 6:31 PM, wrote:
On Monday, February 16, 2015 at 12:25:26 PM UTC-5, John H. wrote:

The big difference between simulators/real airplanes and RC airplanes - in sims or
real planes, the nose of the plane is in front of you. With an RC plane, at least
part of the time, the nose is pointed at you. That means the left and right controls
are reversed. This, I believe, is what causes the most problems, at least for me.

Another related difference is that pilots in a real plane has a seat of the pants, first person view. Not so with RC.

Something that helps newbies to RC is that when the airplane is flying towards you and the controls are reversed, your can turn your body so the transmitter is faced the same way as the plane, but look back over your shoulder at the plane. That way the stick moves to the right, the plane moves to the right. It's a crutch, but with some more stick time it'll come naturally.



I don't think there's much at all in common comparing RC flying and
flying a real airplane. Speed scale is totally different. Turns
and maneuvers are not anything close to being realistic to flying an
airplane.

I see it as a fun hobby for many but to compare it to actually flying
an airplane it isn't even close.

If you think about it, it's very similar. The same rules apply, the aircraft reacts the same way. RC planes can do things that real planes can't, but they also suffer from the fact that they don't fly quite the same way. Said another way, the air molecules are still the same size, while the wings and control surfaces of RC planes are far smaller. That's why truly scale RC planes don't tend to fly very well.

Good RC pilots can fly very realistically. I saw a jet done up in Fed-Ex colors being flown slowly and with coordinated turns. It looked very real, except for the size, although it was still large with about a 10 foot wingspan.

But while you may have not meant it, your attitude is common with "real" pilots. They think of RC planes as toys. And they crash them when they first try to fly them, thinking that if they can fly the real thing, they can fly the toy. They cannot. :)

Real pilots hope to walk away from a crash. RC pilots walk towards it!



I wasn't knocking RC flying. I know a lot of people enjoy it. I also
know a lot of people who think it's similar to actual flying (which it
isn't). As you point out the scale is totally different, the power to
weight ratio is different and the control surfaces behave differently.
I've tried a couple once in flight. You're right. I can land an
airplane but I'd crash an RC if I tried applying my flying instincts and
control.

Back when I was flying I used to play with whatever the current version
of Microsoft Flight Simulator was at the time. I had the yoke and pedal
controller set up. It was not exactly like flying but was pretty close
in many ways, especially how the wing surfaces reacted in the simulator.
Even more realistic when you added in a little "weather" and turbulence.
I think that was much closer to the "feel" of actually flying than a RC
plane can ever be.


Flight simulators such as Microsoft's have very, very little resemblance to RC
flying.

You keep saying its not similar to actual flying. How do the control surfaces behave
differently? What is the power to weight ration of the 'real' airplanes to which you
refer? Do RC airplanes have a lot more power to weight? Less?

Here are the motor specs for my motor:

Power 15 Brushless Outrunner Motor, 950Kv
Key Features

Equivalent to a 15-size glow engine for sport and scale airplanes weighing 36–56
oz (1020–1590 g)
Ideal for 3D airplanes weighing 32–40 oz (910–1135 g)
Ideal for models requiring up to 575 watts of power
High-torque, direct-drive alternative to inrunner brushless motors
Includes mount, prop adapters and mounting hardware
External rotor design—5mm shaft can easily be reversed for alternative motor
installations
Slotted 14-pole outrunner design
High-quality construction with ball bearings and hardened steel shaft

Here are my airplane specs:

Apprentice S 15e RTF with SAFE
Product Specifications
Wingspan: 59.0 in (1500mm)
Overall Length: 42.5 in (1080mm)
Wing Area: 515 sq. in. (33.2 sq. dm.)
Flying Weight: 49.0 oz (1390 g)
Motor Size: 15-size brushless outrunner
Radio: Spektrum DX5e transmitter (included)
CG (center of gravity): 3-1/8 in (79.0mm) back from the leading edge of wing
Prop Size: 11 x 8
Speed Control : 30-amp brushless (installed)
Recommended Battery: 11.1V 3S 3200mAh LiPo (included)
Flaps: No
Retracts: No
Control Throw (Ailerons): Low: 0.71 in (18mm); High: 0.91 in (23mm)
Control Throw (Elevator): Low: 0.71 in (18mm); High: 0.91 in (23mm)
Control Throw (Rudder): Low: 1.10 in (28mm); High: 1.35 in (35mm)

How does one compare the 'power to weight' ratio?

RC planes can climb faster than any comparable
"real" airplane. How fast can you climb? Pretty much like a rocket.
A real airplane doesn't climb like that and to try it would result in
a stall very quickly. A real airplane requires taking weight,
temperature, altitude and air density as factors. With RC flying, none
of those issues matter much.

Try flying a real airplane. Then you are qualified to judge and compare.

If I tried to climb vertically with the Apprentice, I'd be in a stall very quickly.
if the power is up it will do a loop, but not climb like the 3D planes discussed
earlier.

It's absolutely true that I don't worry much about temperature and air density as
factors. Weight and its distribution are important, as is altitude. Too high and I've
violated FCC regs and/or lost sight of the aircraft.

A real F/A-18 will probably climb faster than any of the scale RC aircraft and is
probably much faster. I've never seen any RC aircraft that could climb at 50,000
feet/min or fly 1000 mph, and that would include a scale RC F/A-18. But, maybe you
have.



A little sensitive about your newly found hobby, aren't you?



Do my comments about an F/A-18 sound sensitive? Or was that just the best rebuttal
you could come up with? You were the one telling us what real airplanes could not do.


I don't know why you two can't get along. It's not as if either one of
you is a Harry Krause type.

I'm trying to answer his questions as best I can. I'm thinking the RC aircraft he
flew was his neighbor's quadcopter. That would explain all the questions he had about
flying an RC airplane.



And you would be wrong. Again.

Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
 

On 2/18/2015 8:45 AM, Abit Loco wrote:
On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 20:43:23 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/17/2015 8:22 PM, Abit Loco wrote:
On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 19:03:38 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/17/2015 6:11 PM, Abit Loco wrote:
On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 14:47:49 -0800 (PST), True North wrote:

I'm not sure it's a good idea to encourage Johnny to try real flying.
If he has half the problems with a real plane as he does with his toy versions....Lord help the local folk.

You have to admit, it's kind of fun watching Krause and Eriksson 'gang up' on Herring
over something so ridiculous.

What a laugh!


Ganging up?

I told you that I am not knocking your RC flying hobby. It's fun for many.

You are the one who is trying to convince me and others that flying a RC
airplane is similar to real flying.

There are similarities. Period. That's all anyone here has said.

I think that ingrained pilot arrogance is rearing its ugly head.

Done for today. Sleep well.



I can more clearly understand why some consider you an asshole.
I wasn't looking for a fight nor was I boasting about having a pilot's
license. I acknowledged that I wasn't knocking your hobby and I
acknowledged that I am not a "natural" pilot and didn't particularly
find it relaxing or even fun.

Coulda fooled the **** right out of me!

You are the one who asked what the differences where. I tried to
present a few and you respond with the pilot arrogance thing.

It was not me who responded with the pilot arrogance thing, although I'll admit to
using the word later.


You remind me of an old lady sometimes. Amazing that you made it in the
Army for so long.

Good morning!

Some consider me an asshole because I'm assholish.


You are catching on.

Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
 

On 2/18/2015 8:58 AM, Abit Loco wrote:
On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 20:41:57 -0500, Wayne.B wrote:

On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 17:10:34 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:

This is really funny stuff...thanks, Luddite. :) And remember, driving
that RC boat in a swimming pool is just like driving a real boat through
a ferocious inlet. I mean, what's the difference?

===

What the heck would you know about driving a *real* boat through a
ferocious inlet? Really.

With regard to Dick's suggestion about taking a flying lesson, I
highly recommend it. Introductory lessons are usually priced at
reasonable rates and it will give you a taste of the real deal. You'll
find it quite interesting. My first lesson was in a Piper J3 tail
dragger with no doors or windows and controlled with a "stick".
It was about as basic as you can get short of an ultra light.

I'd like to find someone who would take me and a couple grandkids up in one of those
piper style airplanes.



Any flight school would be happy to accommodate you. In my check out
flight in the Piper Warrior my younger son and son-in-law were in the
back seat.

Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
 

On Wed, 18 Feb 2015 14:44:12 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/18/2015 8:19 AM, Abit Loco wrote:
On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 19:47:19 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/17/2015 6:30 PM, Abit Loco wrote:
On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 16:46:45 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/17/2015 12:44 PM, Abit Loco wrote:
On Mon, 16 Feb 2015 20:35:18 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/16/2015 8:18 PM, wrote:
On Monday, February 16, 2015 at 7:08:10 PM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/16/2015 6:31 PM, wrote:
On Monday, February 16, 2015 at 12:25:26 PM UTC-5, John H. wrote:

The big difference between simulators/real airplanes and RC airplanes - in sims or
real planes, the nose of the plane is in front of you. With an RC plane, at least
part of the time, the nose is pointed at you. That means the left and right controls
are reversed. This, I believe, is what causes the most problems, at least for me.

Another related difference is that pilots in a real plane has a seat of the pants, first person view. Not so with RC.

Something that helps newbies to RC is that when the airplane is flying towards you and the controls are reversed, your can turn your body so the transmitter is faced the same way as the plane, but look back over your shoulder at the plane. That way the stick moves to the right, the plane moves to the right. It's a crutch, but with some more stick time it'll come naturally.



I don't think there's much at all in common comparing RC flying and
flying a real airplane. Speed scale is totally different. Turns
and maneuvers are not anything close to being realistic to flying an
airplane.

I see it as a fun hobby for many but to compare it to actually flying
an airplane it isn't even close.

If you think about it, it's very similar. The same rules apply, the aircraft reacts the same way. RC planes can do things that real planes can't, but they also suffer from the fact that they don't fly quite the same way. Said another way, the air molecules are still the same size, while the wings and control surfaces of RC planes are far smaller. That's why truly scale RC planes don't tend to fly very well.

Good RC pilots can fly very realistically. I saw a jet done up in Fed-Ex colors being flown slowly and with coordinated turns. It looked very real, except for the size, although it was still large with about a 10 foot wingspan.

But while you may have not meant it, your attitude is common with "real" pilots. They think of RC planes as toys. And they crash them when they first try to fly them, thinking that if they can fly the real thing, they can fly the toy. They cannot. :)

Real pilots hope to walk away from a crash. RC pilots walk towards it!



I wasn't knocking RC flying. I know a lot of people enjoy it. I also
know a lot of people who think it's similar to actual flying (which it
isn't). As you point out the scale is totally different, the power to
weight ratio is different and the control surfaces behave differently.
I've tried a couple once in flight. You're right. I can land an
airplane but I'd crash an RC if I tried applying my flying instincts and
control.

Back when I was flying I used to play with whatever the current version
of Microsoft Flight Simulator was at the time. I had the yoke and pedal
controller set up. It was not exactly like flying but was pretty close
in many ways, especially how the wing surfaces reacted in the simulator.
Even more realistic when you added in a little "weather" and turbulence.
I think that was much closer to the "feel" of actually flying than a RC
plane can ever be.


Flight simulators such as Microsoft's have very, very little resemblance to RC
flying.

You keep saying its not similar to actual flying. How do the control surfaces behave
differently? What is the power to weight ration of the 'real' airplanes to which you
refer? Do RC airplanes have a lot more power to weight? Less?

Here are the motor specs for my motor:

Power 15 Brushless Outrunner Motor, 950Kv
Key Features

Equivalent to a 15-size glow engine for sport and scale airplanes weighing 36–56
oz (1020–1590 g)
Ideal for 3D airplanes weighing 32–40 oz (910–1135 g)
Ideal for models requiring up to 575 watts of power
High-torque, direct-drive alternative to inrunner brushless motors
Includes mount, prop adapters and mounting hardware
External rotor design—5mm shaft can easily be reversed for alternative motor
installations
Slotted 14-pole outrunner design
High-quality construction with ball bearings and hardened steel shaft

Here are my airplane specs:

Apprentice S 15e RTF with SAFE
Product Specifications
Wingspan: 59.0 in (1500mm)
Overall Length: 42.5 in (1080mm)
Wing Area: 515 sq. in. (33.2 sq. dm.)
Flying Weight: 49.0 oz (1390 g)
Motor Size: 15-size brushless outrunner
Radio: Spektrum DX5e transmitter (included)
CG (center of gravity): 3-1/8 in (79.0mm) back from the leading edge of wing
Prop Size: 11 x 8
Speed Control : 30-amp brushless (installed)
Recommended Battery: 11.1V 3S 3200mAh LiPo (included)
Flaps: No
Retracts: No
Control Throw (Ailerons): Low: 0.71 in (18mm); High: 0.91 in (23mm)
Control Throw (Elevator): Low: 0.71 in (18mm); High: 0.91 in (23mm)
Control Throw (Rudder): Low: 1.10 in (28mm); High: 1.35 in (35mm)

How does one compare the 'power to weight' ratio?

RC planes can climb faster than any comparable
"real" airplane. How fast can you climb? Pretty much like a rocket.
A real airplane doesn't climb like that and to try it would result in
a stall very quickly. A real airplane requires taking weight,
temperature, altitude and air density as factors. With RC flying, none
of those issues matter much.

Try flying a real airplane. Then you are qualified to judge and compare.

If I tried to climb vertically with the Apprentice, I'd be in a stall very quickly.
if the power is up it will do a loop, but not climb like the 3D planes discussed
earlier.

It's absolutely true that I don't worry much about temperature and air density as
factors. Weight and its distribution are important, as is altitude. Too high and I've
violated FCC regs and/or lost sight of the aircraft.

A real F/A-18 will probably climb faster than any of the scale RC aircraft and is
probably much faster. I've never seen any RC aircraft that could climb at 50,000
feet/min or fly 1000 mph, and that would include a scale RC F/A-18. But, maybe you
have.



A little sensitive about your newly found hobby, aren't you?



Do my comments about an F/A-18 sound sensitive? Or was that just the best rebuttal
you could come up with? You were the one telling us what real airplanes could not do.



For Christ's sake John, we are talking about model replicas of small,
recreational aircraft, not a F/A-18. I am not interested in your silly
arguments and comparisons. If you enjoy flying your RC airplane ...
have a ball. BTW ... in response to someone else's comment ... I
pursued and got my ticket years before I had much extra $$ to spend.
It was a dream I had since I was a little kid and I am very glad to have
accomplished it even though it turns out it was not something I wanted
to stay heavily involved in.


Sorry, Richard, but you're the one who made the bull**** statement:

" RC planes can climb faster than any comparable
"real" airplane. How fast can you climb? Pretty much like a rocket.
A real airplane doesn't climb like that and to try it would result in
a stall very quickly. "

I simply responded to it.
--

Guns don't cause problems. The behavior
of certain gun owners causes problems.

Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
 

On Wed, 18 Feb 2015 14:47:19 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/18/2015 11:19 AM, Stick Left-Steer Left wrote:
On Wed, 18 Feb 2015 11:10:31 -0500, Justan Olphart wrote:

On 2/18/2015 8:19 AM, Abit Loco wrote:
On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 19:47:19 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/17/2015 6:30 PM, Abit Loco wrote:
On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 16:46:45 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/17/2015 12:44 PM, Abit Loco wrote:
On Mon, 16 Feb 2015 20:35:18 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/16/2015 8:18 PM, wrote:
On Monday, February 16, 2015 at 7:08:10 PM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/16/2015 6:31 PM, wrote:
On Monday, February 16, 2015 at 12:25:26 PM UTC-5, John H. wrote:

The big difference between simulators/real airplanes and RC airplanes - in sims or
real planes, the nose of the plane is in front of you. With an RC plane, at least
part of the time, the nose is pointed at you. That means the left and right controls
are reversed. This, I believe, is what causes the most problems, at least for me.

Another related difference is that pilots in a real plane has a seat of the pants, first person view. Not so with RC.

Something that helps newbies to RC is that when the airplane is flying towards you and the controls are reversed, your can turn your body so the transmitter is faced the same way as the plane, but look back over your shoulder at the plane. That way the stick moves to the right, the plane moves to the right. It's a crutch, but with some more stick time it'll come naturally.



I don't think there's much at all in common comparing RC flying and
flying a real airplane. Speed scale is totally different. Turns
and maneuvers are not anything close to being realistic to flying an
airplane.

I see it as a fun hobby for many but to compare it to actually flying
an airplane it isn't even close.

If you think about it, it's very similar. The same rules apply, the aircraft reacts the same way. RC planes can do things that real planes can't, but they also suffer from the fact that they don't fly quite the same way. Said another way, the air molecules are still the same size, while the wings and control surfaces of RC planes are far smaller. That's why truly scale RC planes don't tend to fly very well.

Good RC pilots can fly very realistically. I saw a jet done up in Fed-Ex colors being flown slowly and with coordinated turns. It looked very real, except for the size, although it was still large with about a 10 foot wingspan.

But while you may have not meant it, your attitude is common with "real" pilots. They think of RC planes as toys. And they crash them when they first try to fly them, thinking that if they can fly the real thing, they can fly the toy. They cannot. :)

Real pilots hope to walk away from a crash. RC pilots walk towards it!



I wasn't knocking RC flying. I know a lot of people enjoy it. I also
know a lot of people who think it's similar to actual flying (which it
isn't). As you point out the scale is totally different, the power to
weight ratio is different and the control surfaces behave differently.
I've tried a couple once in flight. You're right. I can land an
airplane but I'd crash an RC if I tried applying my flying instincts and
control.

Back when I was flying I used to play with whatever the current version
of Microsoft Flight Simulator was at the time. I had the yoke and pedal
controller set up. It was not exactly like flying but was pretty close
in many ways, especially how the wing surfaces reacted in the simulator.
Even more realistic when you added in a little "weather" and turbulence.
I think that was much closer to the "feel" of actually flying than a RC
plane can ever be.


Flight simulators such as Microsoft's have very, very little resemblance to RC
flying.

You keep saying its not similar to actual flying. How do the control surfaces behave
differently? What is the power to weight ration of the 'real' airplanes to which you
refer? Do RC airplanes have a lot more power to weight? Less?

Here are the motor specs for my motor:

Power 15 Brushless Outrunner Motor, 950Kv
Key Features

Equivalent to a 15-size glow engine for sport and scale airplanes weighing 36–56
oz (1020–1590 g)
Ideal for 3D airplanes weighing 32–40 oz (910–1135 g)
Ideal for models requiring up to 575 watts of power
High-torque, direct-drive alternative to inrunner brushless motors
Includes mount, prop adapters and mounting hardware
External rotor design—5mm shaft can easily be reversed for alternative motor
installations
Slotted 14-pole outrunner design
High-quality construction with ball bearings and hardened steel shaft

Here are my airplane specs:

Apprentice S 15e RTF with SAFE
Product Specifications
Wingspan: 59.0 in (1500mm)
Overall Length: 42.5 in (1080mm)
Wing Area: 515 sq. in. (33.2 sq. dm.)
Flying Weight: 49.0 oz (1390 g)
Motor Size: 15-size brushless outrunner
Radio: Spektrum DX5e transmitter (included)
CG (center of gravity): 3-1/8 in (79.0mm) back from the leading edge of wing
Prop Size: 11 x 8
Speed Control : 30-amp brushless (installed)
Recommended Battery: 11.1V 3S 3200mAh LiPo (included)
Flaps: No
Retracts: No
Control Throw (Ailerons): Low: 0.71 in (18mm); High: 0.91 in (23mm)
Control Throw (Elevator): Low: 0.71 in (18mm); High: 0.91 in (23mm)
Control Throw (Rudder): Low: 1.10 in (28mm); High: 1.35 in (35mm)

How does one compare the 'power to weight' ratio?

RC planes can climb faster than any comparable
"real" airplane. How fast can you climb? Pretty much like a rocket.
A real airplane doesn't climb like that and to try it would result in
a stall very quickly. A real airplane requires taking weight,
temperature, altitude and air density as factors. With RC flying, none
of those issues matter much.

Try flying a real airplane. Then you are qualified to judge and compare.

If I tried to climb vertically with the Apprentice, I'd be in a stall very quickly.
if the power is up it will do a loop, but not climb like the 3D planes discussed
earlier.

It's absolutely true that I don't worry much about temperature and air density as
factors. Weight and its distribution are important, as is altitude. Too high and I've
violated FCC regs and/or lost sight of the aircraft.

A real F/A-18 will probably climb faster than any of the scale RC aircraft and is
probably much faster. I've never seen any RC aircraft that could climb at 50,000
feet/min or fly 1000 mph, and that would include a scale RC F/A-18. But, maybe you
have.



A little sensitive about your newly found hobby, aren't you?



Do my comments about an F/A-18 sound sensitive? Or was that just the best rebuttal
you could come up with? You were the one telling us what real airplanes could not do.


I don't know why you two can't get along. It's not as if either one of
you is a Harry Krause type.

I'm trying to answer his questions as best I can. I'm thinking the RC aircraft he
flew was his neighbor's quadcopter. That would explain all the questions he had about
flying an RC airplane.



And you would be wrong. Again.


Well, if you've flown an RC airplane, why all the questions about take offs,
landings, taxiing, pre-flight checks, etc.

Seems like you'd know the answers.

I notice you didn't respond to the answers I gave you. But that's pretty much your
MO, isn't it?
--

Guns don't cause problems. The behavior
of certain gun owners causes problems.

Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
 

On 2/18/2015 9:19 AM, KC wrote:
On 2/17/2015 12:16 PM, Abit Loco wrote:
On Mon, 16 Feb 2015 19:08:08 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/16/2015 6:31 PM, wrote:
On Monday, February 16, 2015 at 12:25:26 PM UTC-5, John H. wrote:

The big difference between simulators/real airplanes and RC
airplanes - in sims or
real planes, the nose of the plane is in front of you. With an RC
plane, at least
part of the time, the nose is pointed at you. That means the left
and right controls
are reversed. This, I believe, is what causes the most problems, at
least for me.

Another related difference is that pilots in a real plane has a seat
of the pants, first person view. Not so with RC.

Something that helps newbies to RC is that when the airplane is
flying towards you and the controls are reversed, your can turn your
body so the transmitter is faced the same way as the plane, but look
back over your shoulder at the plane. That way the stick moves to
the right, the plane moves to the right. It's a crutch, but with
some more stick time it'll come naturally.



I don't think there's much at all in common comparing RC flying and
flying a real airplane. Speed scale is totally different. Turns
and maneuvers are not anything close to being realistic to flying an
airplane.

I see it as a fun hobby for many but to compare it to actually flying
an airplane it isn't even close.


Many of the airplanes flown at our field fly in excess of 100mph - and
that's
measured by radar.

One of our guys has one of these:
http://www.modelairplanenews.com/blo...ini-radar-gun/


They measure real speed, not scale speed.

Since I've never flown a real airplane, I can't argue your 'turns and
maneuvers'
statement. I know that if I bank my airplane using the ailerons and
don't give it
some up elevator, it will head for the dirt. Perhaps you could tell us
what the big
differences are.

I'm thinking the biggest difference is that my crash isn't going to
kill anyone. Oh,
and my pre-flight checklist is shorter!


Has anybody mentioned the seat of the pants feeling? I mean, that must
help you fly in some respect feeling the plane under you?


"Seat of the pants" flying is something that a person with a natural
pilot aptitude develops. I never have. At one point in the flight
instruction period my CFI commented that engineering types often have a
tough time developing a "feel" for the airplane. We tend to be too
analytical and fly "by the books". He was right. I took me longer
than normal to feel totally comfortable flying.

Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
 

On Wed, 18 Feb 2015 14:48:41 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/18/2015 8:45 AM, Abit Loco wrote:
On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 20:43:23 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/17/2015 8:22 PM, Abit Loco wrote:
On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 19:03:38 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/17/2015 6:11 PM, Abit Loco wrote:
On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 14:47:49 -0800 (PST), True North wrote:

I'm not sure it's a good idea to encourage Johnny to try real flying.
If he has half the problems with a real plane as he does with his toy versions....Lord help the local folk.

You have to admit, it's kind of fun watching Krause and Eriksson 'gang up' on Herring
over something so ridiculous.

What a laugh!


Ganging up?

I told you that I am not knocking your RC flying hobby. It's fun for many.

You are the one who is trying to convince me and others that flying a RC
airplane is similar to real flying.

There are similarities. Period. That's all anyone here has said.

I think that ingrained pilot arrogance is rearing its ugly head.

Done for today. Sleep well.



I can more clearly understand why some consider you an asshole.
I wasn't looking for a fight nor was I boasting about having a pilot's
license. I acknowledged that I wasn't knocking your hobby and I
acknowledged that I am not a "natural" pilot and didn't particularly
find it relaxing or even fun.

Coulda fooled the **** right out of me!

You are the one who asked what the differences where. I tried to
present a few and you respond with the pilot arrogance thing.

It was not me who responded with the pilot arrogance thing, although I'll admit to
using the word later.


You remind me of an old lady sometimes. Amazing that you made it in the
Army for so long.

Good morning!

Some consider me an asshole because I'm assholish.


You are catching on.


Either agree with Eriksson or be an asshole. I'll take the latter. No sweat.
--

Guns don't cause problems. The behavior
of certain gun owners causes problems.

Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
 

On 2/18/2015 3:07 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 18 Feb 2015 14:44:12 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

BTW ... in response to someone else's comment ... I
pursued and got my ticket years before I had much extra $$ to spend.
It was a dream I had since I was a little kid and I am very glad to have
accomplished it even though it turns out it was not something I wanted
to stay heavily involved in.


I know several pilots and they all say it is a rich man's hobby. Just
keeping one of those little "Buddy Holly" planes up to FAA specs is
like owning a second home.
All the work needs to be done by a licensed mechanic and parts make
boat parts look like peanuts.



I never had any interest in buying an airplane. Cheaper to rent.

Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
 

On 2/18/15 3:00 PM, Stick Left-Steer Left wrote:
On Wed, 18 Feb 2015 14:48:41 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/18/2015 8:45 AM, Abit Loco wrote:
On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 20:43:23 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/17/2015 8:22 PM, Abit Loco wrote:
On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 19:03:38 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/17/2015 6:11 PM, Abit Loco wrote:
On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 14:47:49 -0800 (PST), True North wrote:

I'm not sure it's a good idea to encourage Johnny to try real flying.
If he has half the problems with a real plane as he does with his toy versions....Lord help the local folk.

You have to admit, it's kind of fun watching Krause and Eriksson 'gang up' on Herring
over something so ridiculous.

What a laugh!


Ganging up?

I told you that I am not knocking your RC flying hobby. It's fun for many.

You are the one who is trying to convince me and others that flying a RC
airplane is similar to real flying.

There are similarities. Period. That's all anyone here has said.

I think that ingrained pilot arrogance is rearing its ugly head.

Done for today. Sleep well.



I can more clearly understand why some consider you an asshole.
I wasn't looking for a fight nor was I boasting about having a pilot's
license. I acknowledged that I wasn't knocking your hobby and I
acknowledged that I am not a "natural" pilot and didn't particularly
find it relaxing or even fun.

Coulda fooled the **** right out of me!

You are the one who asked what the differences where. I tried to
present a few and you respond with the pilot arrogance thing.

It was not me who responded with the pilot arrogance thing, although I'll admit to
using the word later.


You remind me of an old lady sometimes. Amazing that you made it in the
Army for so long.

Good morning!

Some consider me an asshole because I'm assholish.


You are catching on.


Either agree with Eriksson or be an asshole. I'll take the latter. No sweat.



I suggest you are tripping over...yourself.

--
Proud to be a Liberal.

Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
 

On Wed, 18 Feb 2015 13:43:24 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:

You must be approaching 30 posts so far today on your toy
airplanes...will you set a record? Stay tuned.

===

Putz.

Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
 

On Wed, 18 Feb 2015 15:07:12 -0500, wrote:

All the work needs to be done by a licensed mechanic and parts make
boat parts look like peanuts.

===

Every single part has to be certified and traceable back to its place
and date of manufacture.

Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
 

On Wed, 18 Feb 2015 15:37:57 -0500, Wayne.B wrote:

On Wed, 18 Feb 2015 15:07:12 -0500, wrote:

All the work needs to be done by a licensed mechanic and parts make
boat parts look like peanuts.

===

Every single part has to be certified and traceable back to its place
and date of manufacture.

You can't buy 'em out behind the shed from someone's trunk at a 'plane show' in
Virginia?

Well, ****. Guess I'll have to do without.
--

Guns don't cause problems. The behavior
of certain gun owners causes problems.

Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
 

On 2/18/15 4:05 PM, Stick Left-Steer Left wrote:
On Wed, 18 Feb 2015 15:37:57 -0500, Wayne.B wrote:

On Wed, 18 Feb 2015 15:07:12 -0500, wrote:

All the work needs to be done by a licensed mechanic and parts make
boat parts look like peanuts.

===

Every single part has to be certified and traceable back to its place
and date of manufacture.

You can't buy 'em out behind the shed from someone's trunk at a 'plane show' in
Virginia?

Well, ****. Guess I'll have to do without.



Somewhere along the line, someone must have told you they thought you
were clever or funny.

They were wrong.

--
Proud to be a Liberal.

Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
 

On Wednesday, February 18, 2015 at 4:21:45 PM UTC-5, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 2/18/15 4:05 PM, Stick Left-Steer Left wrote:
On Wed, 18 Feb 2015 15:37:57 -0500, Wayne.B wrote:

On Wed, 18 Feb 2015 15:07:12 -0500, wrote:

All the work needs to be done by a licensed mechanic and parts make
boat parts look like peanuts.

===

Every single part has to be certified and traceable back to its place
and date of manufacture.

You can't buy 'em out behind the shed from someone's trunk at a 'plane show' in
Virginia?

Well, ****. Guess I'll have to do without.



Somewhere along the line, someone must have told you they thought you
were clever or funny.

They were wrong.

Somewhere along the way, someone must have told you that you could recognize clever or funny.

They were delusional.

Ya'll have fun for the next few days. We'll be in a much warmer place for some downtime.

Tim, you're in charge.

Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
 

On 2/18/2015 4:05 PM, Stick Left-Steer Left wrote:
On Wed, 18 Feb 2015 15:37:57 -0500, Wayne.B wrote:

On Wed, 18 Feb 2015 15:07:12 -0500, wrote:

All the work needs to be done by a licensed mechanic and parts make
boat parts look like peanuts.

===

Every single part has to be certified and traceable back to its place
and date of manufacture.

You can't buy 'em out behind the shed from someone's trunk at a 'plane show' in
Virginia?

Well, ****. Guess I'll have to do without.


There are a lot of very airworthy and proven "experimental" aircraft out
there. Are they held to the same standard as registered aircraft? There
is a huge rc club down by our practice track. I have seen everything
from gas and electric rc planes to manned single seat eggbeaters and
several kinds of ultra light paragliders, etc take off and fly around there.