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Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 12:16:06 -0500, Abit Loco
wrote: Since I've never flown a real airplane, I can't argue your 'turns and maneuvers' statement. I know that if I bank my airplane using the ailerons and don't give it some up elevator, it will head for the dirt. Perhaps you could tell us what the big differences are. === In a real plane you initiate a turn by briefly banking the plane with the ailerons and giving it a momentary touch of rudder in the desired direction. The plane will stay banked and continue to turn until you reverse the process. And yes, you do need to pull back on the stick or yoke a bit to maintain altitude. Does a model behave the same way? |
Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 11:45:30 -0500, KC wrote:
I have seen them with a live screen so you can fly with a cockpit point of view on your controller... Not sure how fast it updates for real time but the one I saw was a quad copter so it was not as fast... === I've never flown a quad copter but I am absolutely sure that it is nothing like flying a fixed wing aircraft - model or real. |
Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 20:20:59 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote: I still go down and fly two or three times a year. My medical expired long ago, so I always go up with an instructor. I usually just fly the pattern several times, practicing landings, then get bored and go home. === To me the best part of flying in a small plane is sight seeing on a nice day. You're close enough that you could fly out over the Cape and on to Nantucket or the Vineyard. I used to have friends in Stamford, CT who would sometimes fly out to Nantucket for Sunday brunch on a nice winter day. |
Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
Abit Loco wrote:
On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 19:03:38 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 2/17/2015 6:11 PM, Abit Loco wrote: On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 14:47:49 -0800 (PST), True North wrote: I'm not sure it's a good idea to encourage Johnny to try real flying. If he has half the problems with a real plane as he does with his toy versions....Lord help the local folk. You have to admit, it's kind of fun watching Krause and Eriksson 'gang up' on Herring over something so ridiculous. What a laugh! Ganging up? I told you that I am not knocking your RC flying hobby. It's fun for many. You are the one who is trying to convince me and others that flying a RC airplane is similar to real flying. There are similarities. Period. That's all anyone here has said. I think that ingrained pilot arrogance is rearing its ugly head. Done for today. Sleep well. I flew u controls as a kid, wanted RC but was not in my budget. I do not have a pilots license but have flown with a pilot in some cool airplanes. Besides a 172. The Ucontrol is an example of very much quicker response than a real airplane. Someways is harder to fly a model airplane because of the very quick response characteristic and the fact you are not at 5000'. |
Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 20:11:53 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote: The more I think about it the more the differences become obvious. When starting your take off roll, how do you "steer" the RC? Or do you? When landing, how do you correct for crosswinds? Dipped wing or slip? What's your pre-flight like. What's a "run up". Magneto check limits? What's your landing pattern procedures? How do you stop the plane when you land? How do you control direction of the plane when taxiing? Those are but a few very basic issues of "real" flying that I don't think the average RC pilot deals with. === With all due respect, I'd argue that those are mostly procedural differences that are not related to flight and control surface dynamics. |
Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 19:34:16 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote: Don't need to. Not interested in getting a 'real' pilot's license. I have a hard enough time with RC planes - as do a lot of 'real' pilots, and I'm not talking piper cub guys. This just gets funnier and funnier. :) === Why the heck are you in this discussion? |
Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
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Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
Wayne.B wrote:
On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 20:11:53 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: The more I think about it the more the differences become obvious. When starting your take off roll, how do you "steer" the RC? Or do you? When landing, how do you correct for crosswinds? Dipped wing or slip? What's your pre-flight like. What's a "run up". Magneto check limits? What's your landing pattern procedures? How do you stop the plane when you land? How do you control direction of the plane when taxiing? Those are but a few very basic issues of "real" flying that I don't think the average RC pilot deals with. === With all due respect, I'd argue that those are mostly procedural differences that are not related to flight and control surface dynamics. I think there are some major differences in handling. Both the control surfaces and polar moments. |
Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
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Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
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Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
On 2/18/15 1:34 AM, wrote:
On Wed, 18 Feb 2015 00:27:01 -0500, Wayne.B wrote: On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 23:49:35 -0500, wrote: On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 20:41:57 -0500, Wayne.B wrote: What the heck would you know about driving a *real* boat through a ferocious inlet? Really. Maybe he took a 16' boat out of Deale That can be exciting on a windy day. === I think the biggest boat that harry has actually owned was the 24 ft Parker. Not a bad boat for the Chesapeake on a moderately calm day but not my choice for going offshore any distance. Apparently the fuel burn on the 24 was too much for him as I recall. He had a buck and a half Yamaha as I recall. My neighbor has a new one and he says it is a lot better on gas than the 115 4s Merc. I am not sure if that was the same motor Harry had tho. As for the boat, a 24 should be fine in the bay. I used to fish on a 22.2 Aquasport all the time and we ran from Scheibels down to a ledge 20 miles south of Tangier most of the time. It wasn't a bad ride. The little 16' had, not so much ;-) I had a 225 Yammy on a 25' Parker that weighed 3-1/2 tons and was suitable for reasonable offshore work. Later had a 150 Yammy on a 21' deep vee that was also suitable for reasonable offshore work. When we lived in Florida and I had an 18' center console boat, we'd often go 20 miles offshore to fish some wrecks. There are plenty of guys who fish the Bay here in 16' boats. Perhaps you simply didn't have the balls or back for it. -- Proud to be a Liberal. |
Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 21:10:41 -0500, Wayne.B wrote:
On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 12:16:06 -0500, Abit Loco wrote: Since I've never flown a real airplane, I can't argue your 'turns and maneuvers' statement. I know that if I bank my airplane using the ailerons and don't give it some up elevator, it will head for the dirt. Perhaps you could tell us what the big differences are. === In a real plane you initiate a turn by briefly banking the plane with the ailerons and giving it a momentary touch of rudder in the desired direction. The plane will stay banked and continue to turn until you reverse the process. And yes, you do need to pull back on the stick or yoke a bit to maintain altitude. Does a model behave the same way? More or less. I use my rudder very little, unless there's a side wind. But a little up elevator is a necessity to maintain the same altitude. -- Guns don't cause problems. The behavior of certain gun owners causes problems. |
Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
On 2/18/2015 7:12 AM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 2/17/15 11:49 PM, wrote: On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 20:41:57 -0500, Wayne.B wrote: What the heck would you know about driving a *real* boat through a ferocious inlet? Really. Maybe he took a 16' boat out of Deale That can be exciting on a windy day. Sorry, Gregster, never had a 16 footer up here. Smallest was a 19-footer. No ferocious inlets up here, either. Why are you commenting about inlets, when your boating is done on a flat-calm swamp in a beat up old pontoon boat that looks like a prop from Duck Dynasty? Extending your olive branch again Krauster? Oh, my tag line below could never be more appropriate, eh krauseberg? -- Respectfully submitted by Justan Laugh of the day from Krause "I'm not to blame anymore for the atmosphere in here. I've been "born again" as a nice guy." |
Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
On 2/18/15 7:49 AM, Abit Loco wrote:
On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 21:10:41 -0500, Wayne.B wrote: On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 12:16:06 -0500, Abit Loco wrote: Since I've never flown a real airplane, I can't argue your 'turns and maneuvers' statement. I know that if I bank my airplane using the ailerons and don't give it some up elevator, it will head for the dirt. Perhaps you could tell us what the big differences are. === In a real plane you initiate a turn by briefly banking the plane with the ailerons and giving it a momentary touch of rudder in the desired direction. The plane will stay banked and continue to turn until you reverse the process. And yes, you do need to pull back on the stick or yoke a bit to maintain altitude. Does a model behave the same way? More or less. I use my rudder very little, unless there's a side wind. But a little up elevator is a necessity to maintain the same altitude. Are you going to put up another set of 30-40 posts today about your toy model airplanes? How about mixing in some golf, RV, hillbilly music, steel ammo posts, just for, oh, variety? And perhaps a few about your surgeries, past, present, and future... -- Proud to be a Liberal. |
Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 21:13:53 -0500, Wayne.B wrote:
On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 11:45:30 -0500, KC wrote: I have seen them with a live screen so you can fly with a cockpit point of view on your controller... Not sure how fast it updates for real time but the one I saw was a quad copter so it was not as fast... === I've never flown a quad copter but I am absolutely sure that it is nothing like flying a fixed wing aircraft - model or real. Totally different. They're fun to fly though. I bought one for the kids to play with when we go to Solomon's. They get a charge out of it. The quadcopters don't require nearly as much room as an airplane. If you get one for kids, be sure to get extra batteries. -- Guns don't cause problems. The behavior of certain gun owners causes problems. |
Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 19:12:46 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 2/17/2015 6:30 PM, Abit Loco wrote: On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 16:46:45 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 2/17/2015 12:44 PM, Abit Loco wrote: On Mon, 16 Feb 2015 20:35:18 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 2/16/2015 8:18 PM, wrote: On Monday, February 16, 2015 at 7:08:10 PM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 2/16/2015 6:31 PM, wrote: On Monday, February 16, 2015 at 12:25:26 PM UTC-5, John H. wrote: The big difference between simulators/real airplanes and RC airplanes - in sims or real planes, the nose of the plane is in front of you. With an RC plane, at least part of the time, the nose is pointed at you. That means the left and right controls are reversed. This, I believe, is what causes the most problems, at least for me. Another related difference is that pilots in a real plane has a seat of the pants, first person view. Not so with RC. Something that helps newbies to RC is that when the airplane is flying towards you and the controls are reversed, your can turn your body so the transmitter is faced the same way as the plane, but look back over your shoulder at the plane. That way the stick moves to the right, the plane moves to the right. It's a crutch, but with some more stick time it'll come naturally. I don't think there's much at all in common comparing RC flying and flying a real airplane. Speed scale is totally different. Turns and maneuvers are not anything close to being realistic to flying an airplane. I see it as a fun hobby for many but to compare it to actually flying an airplane it isn't even close. If you think about it, it's very similar. The same rules apply, the aircraft reacts the same way. RC planes can do things that real planes can't, but they also suffer from the fact that they don't fly quite the same way. Said another way, the air molecules are still the same size, while the wings and control surfaces of RC planes are far smaller. That's why truly scale RC planes don't tend to fly very well. Good RC pilots can fly very realistically. I saw a jet done up in Fed-Ex colors being flown slowly and with coordinated turns. It looked very real, except for the size, although it was still large with about a 10 foot wingspan. But while you may have not meant it, your attitude is common with "real" pilots. They think of RC planes as toys. And they crash them when they first try to fly them, thinking that if they can fly the real thing, they can fly the toy. They cannot. :) Real pilots hope to walk away from a crash. RC pilots walk towards it! I wasn't knocking RC flying. I know a lot of people enjoy it. I also know a lot of people who think it's similar to actual flying (which it isn't). As you point out the scale is totally different, the power to weight ratio is different and the control surfaces behave differently. I've tried a couple once in flight. You're right. I can land an airplane but I'd crash an RC if I tried applying my flying instincts and control. Back when I was flying I used to play with whatever the current version of Microsoft Flight Simulator was at the time. I had the yoke and pedal controller set up. It was not exactly like flying but was pretty close in many ways, especially how the wing surfaces reacted in the simulator. Even more realistic when you added in a little "weather" and turbulence. I think that was much closer to the "feel" of actually flying than a RC plane can ever be. Flight simulators such as Microsoft's have very, very little resemblance to RC flying. You keep saying its not similar to actual flying. How do the control surfaces behave differently? What is the power to weight ration of the 'real' airplanes to which you refer? Do RC airplanes have a lot more power to weight? Less? Here are the motor specs for my motor: Power 15 Brushless Outrunner Motor, 950Kv Key Features Equivalent to a 15-size glow engine for sport and scale airplanes weighing 36–56 oz (1020–1590 g) Ideal for 3D airplanes weighing 32–40 oz (910–1135 g) Ideal for models requiring up to 575 watts of power High-torque, direct-drive alternative to inrunner brushless motors Includes mount, prop adapters and mounting hardware External rotor design—5mm shaft can easily be reversed for alternative motor installations Slotted 14-pole outrunner design High-quality construction with ball bearings and hardened steel shaft Here are my airplane specs: Apprentice S 15e RTF with SAFE Product Specifications Wingspan: 59.0 in (1500mm) Overall Length: 42.5 in (1080mm) Wing Area: 515 sq. in. (33.2 sq. dm.) Flying Weight: 49.0 oz (1390 g) Motor Size: 15-size brushless outrunner Radio: Spektrum DX5e transmitter (included) CG (center of gravity): 3-1/8 in (79.0mm) back from the leading edge of wing Prop Size: 11 x 8 Speed Control : 30-amp brushless (installed) Recommended Battery: 11.1V 3S 3200mAh LiPo (included) Flaps: No Retracts: No Control Throw (Ailerons): Low: 0.71 in (18mm); High: 0.91 in (23mm) Control Throw (Elevator): Low: 0.71 in (18mm); High: 0.91 in (23mm) Control Throw (Rudder): Low: 1.10 in (28mm); High: 1.35 in (35mm) How does one compare the 'power to weight' ratio? RC planes can climb faster than any comparable "real" airplane. How fast can you climb? Pretty much like a rocket. A real airplane doesn't climb like that and to try it would result in a stall very quickly. A real airplane requires taking weight, temperature, altitude and air density as factors. With RC flying, none of those issues matter much. Try flying a real airplane. Then you are qualified to judge and compare. If I tried to climb vertically with the Apprentice, I'd be in a stall very quickly. if the power is up it will do a loop, but not climb like the 3D planes discussed earlier. It's absolutely true that I don't worry much about temperature and air density as factors. Weight and its distribution are important, as is altitude. Too high and I've violated FCC regs and/or lost sight of the aircraft. A real F/A-18 will probably climb faster than any of the scale RC aircraft and is probably much faster. I've never seen any RC aircraft that could climb at 50,000 feet/min or fly 1000 mph, and that would include a scale RC F/A-18. But, maybe you have. I wasn't referring to high your fly your plane when I mentioned "altitude". Oh man, you caught me on that one! I should have said 'feet above the surface'. But, as my flying is mostly done from close to sea level, 'altitude' works for me. I notice you skipped over my response to your 'real airplane doesn't climb like that' comment. Have you seen RC airplanes that can climb like an F/A-18? -- Guns don't cause problems. The behavior of certain gun owners causes problems. |
Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 21:46:53 -0500, Wayne.B wrote:
On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 19:34:16 -0500, Keyser Söze wrote: Don't need to. Not interested in getting a 'real' pilot's license. I have a hard enough time with RC planes - as do a lot of 'real' pilots, and I'm not talking piper cub guys. This just gets funnier and funnier. :) === Why the heck are you in this discussion? Accumulating points with Eriksson, why else? -- Guns don't cause problems. The behavior of certain gun owners causes problems. |
Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
On 2/18/15 8:08 AM, Abit Loco wrote:
On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 19:12:46 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: I notice you skipped over my response to your 'real airplane doesn't climb like that' comment. Have you seen RC airplanes that can climb like an F/A-18? Hehehehehehe... And the bleat goes on. -- Proud to be a Liberal. |
Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 20:30:45 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 2/17/15 7:27 PM, Abit Loco wrote: On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 19:00:07 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 2/17/2015 6:05 PM, Abit Loco wrote: On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 16:28:55 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 2/17/2015 12:16 PM, Abit Loco wrote: On Mon, 16 Feb 2015 19:08:08 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 2/16/2015 6:31 PM, wrote: On Monday, February 16, 2015 at 12:25:26 PM UTC-5, John H. wrote: The big difference between simulators/real airplanes and RC airplanes - in sims or real planes, the nose of the plane is in front of you. With an RC plane, at least part of the time, the nose is pointed at you. That means the left and right controls are reversed. This, I believe, is what causes the most problems, at least for me. Another related difference is that pilots in a real plane has a seat of the pants, first person view. Not so with RC. Something that helps newbies to RC is that when the airplane is flying towards you and the controls are reversed, your can turn your body so the transmitter is faced the same way as the plane, but look back over your shoulder at the plane. That way the stick moves to the right, the plane moves to the right. It's a crutch, but with some more stick time it'll come naturally. I don't think there's much at all in common comparing RC flying and flying a real airplane. Speed scale is totally different. Turns and maneuvers are not anything close to being realistic to flying an airplane. I see it as a fun hobby for many but to compare it to actually flying an airplane it isn't even close. Many of the airplanes flown at our field fly in excess of 100mph - and that's measured by radar. One of our guys has one of these: http://www.modelairplanenews.com/blo...ini-radar-gun/ They measure real speed, not scale speed. Since I've never flown a real airplane, I can't argue your 'turns and maneuvers' statement. I know that if I bank my airplane using the ailerons and don't give it some up elevator, it will head for the dirt. Perhaps you could tell us what the big differences are. I'm thinking the biggest difference is that my crash isn't going to kill anyone. Oh, and my pre-flight checklist is shorter! An introductory flight lesson is cheap. Used to be about $50 for a half hour but maybe it's gone up now. If the CFI is halfway comfortable with how you follow directions, he'll let you taxi, take off and "fly the pattern". He'll land it although he may let you think you did. Do that and then come back and tell me how similar RC flying is to actually flying a real aircraft. You may be surprised. Flying a real airplane might be simpler. Geezie Pete - this is getting you wrapped around an axle, isn't it. While in Vietnam I was lucky enough to go up in an OV-10 for a three hour flight. The pilot was nice enough to let me fly the plane for about a half hour after flying our missions. There are a lot of similarities, especially in the controls. Pulling the stick back on the OV-10 does the same thing as pulling the stick back on the RC xmtr. And, not giving the plane some throttle when doing so could cause a stall - as the OV-10 pilot told me. Only his words were, "Do you want to crash?" Me, "No". Him, "Well you'd better give it some throttle." There were a tremendous number of similarities. Was it the same as flying an RC aircraft? Hell no. But, it was a tad more difficult than steering a train. Not me getting wrapped around an axle. You are the one who thinks flying RC airplanes is like flying a real one. Putting words in my mouth, are you? Shame on you. So you took the controls of an airplane after it took off and was flying straight and level. I did that when I was 10 years old with a pilot friend of my father. I've never proclaimed myself to be the pilot you are. Try "the hood". The hood is a device that you wear that limits your field of view to the inside of the airplane only. All you can see is the instruments. Your instructor will take control of the airplane and put it in an unusual attitude meaning it may be banked over and descending or in a banked climb nearing stall. He'll then say, "Your plane" and you learn to recover using instruments only with no ground reference. When you are in a banked turn, you can't tell by the seat of your pants. The airplane could be standing on one wing tip and you wouldn't know other than by instruments. Don't need to. Not interested in getting a 'real' pilot's license. I have a hard enough time with RC planes - as do a lot of 'real' pilots, and I'm not talking piper cub guys. Yet just a few posts ago you were asking what the "differences" are. I don't think I said that. But you, Krause, and Don do have a way of inserting words. I believe I said that there are similarities between RC flying and real airplane flying. -- Guns don't cause problems. The behavior of certain gun owners causes problems. |
Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 19:42:20 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 2/17/2015 6:39 PM, Abit Loco wrote: On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 18:17:23 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 2/17/2015 5:58 PM, Abit Loco wrote: On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 16:34:20 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 2/17/2015 12:16 PM, Abit Loco wrote: On Mon, 16 Feb 2015 19:54:29 -0500, Keyser Söze wrote: On 2/16/15 7:08 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 2/16/2015 6:31 PM, wrote: On Monday, February 16, 2015 at 12:25:26 PM UTC-5, John H. wrote: The big difference between simulators/real airplanes and RC airplanes - in sims or real planes, the nose of the plane is in front of you. With an RC plane, at least part of the time, the nose is pointed at you. That means the left and right controls are reversed. This, I believe, is what causes the most problems, at least for me. Another related difference is that pilots in a real plane has a seat of the pants, first person view. Not so with RC. Something that helps newbies to RC is that when the airplane is flying towards you and the controls are reversed, your can turn your body so the transmitter is faced the same way as the plane, but look back over your shoulder at the plane. That way the stick moves to the right, the plane moves to the right. It's a crutch, but with some more stick time it'll come naturally. I don't think there's much at all in common comparing RC flying and flying a real airplane. Speed scale is totally different. Turns and maneuvers are not anything close to being realistic to flying an airplane. I see it as a fun hobby for many but to compare it to actually flying an airplane it isn't even close. What happens when your toy plane crashes? It breaks. What happens when a real airplane crashes? Death and destruction. And that, my friends, is the big difference! The chances of you crashing a real airplane are pretty slim compared to crashing a RC. First of all, while under instruction your CFI isn't keen on crashing. By the time you are ready to solo you will be well qualified in the eyes of your instructor. When you consider the number of people taking flight lessons every day across the country and the number of small aircraft pilots flying every day, the safety record is pretty high and the number of crashes are low. Have you ever 'buddy-boxed' with an RC instructor pilot? While under instruction, the instructor isn't keen on you ruining your airplane. He has a switch which immediately gives him control of the aircraft if he thinks trouble is approaching. When I was actively flying the thought of ruining the airplane never crossed my mind. John, if you want to believe that flying a $200 airplane by remote control emulates flying a real airplane, more power to you. I see them as two completely different experiences that require totally different skill sets. Any licensed pilot can remember every single detail of their first solo flight when the CFI was no longer sitting beside you and once you went up ... getting down alive was entirely dependent on you. Second is the cross country phase where navigation becomes key. With RC flying you don't lose where you are. I remember some of the early flight lessons when the instructor would tell me to head back to the airport ... and I just stared at the ground wondering where the hell I was. These have nothing to do with controlling or flying the airplane but are part of "real" flying. If you think there are *no* similarities between flying an RC aircraft (of any cost) and flying the real airplane, then more power to you. Now you're comparing flying an RC airplane to getting a pilot's license for a real airplane. Why not compare it to flying and landing an F/A-18 on a carrier. I'll bet that's much different from landing an RC airplane in the grass. True, when flying an RC airplane, the pilot never loses where *he* is. But, they often lose where the airplane is. Happened to me a couple weeks ago. I flew the airplane beyond my ability to see it. The clouds were much the same color as the airplane. Had to yell for help. Young guy came and got it back for me. Just calm down a bit. No one is trying to denigrate your experience in getting your pilot's license. And, when you pushed that stick left or right, you were steering the airplane, whether you like it or not! Whatever you say Captain Herring. I admit that I have many more hours logged flying for real than I have flying a RC airplane, standing on the ground and controlling it with basically a game controller. Maybe if I did it more often I'd learn how similar it is to the real thing. Then again, probably not. No interest. with a Let's see...ingrained racist, Aunt Clara, Sheriff, and now Captain...all in a couple months. From now on, whenever you're flying your real airplane, you will think this: "STICK LEFT, STEER LEFT" "STICK RIGHT, STEER RIGHT" That thought will become ingrained. Don't ever mistake it with countersteering! -- Guns don't cause problems. The behavior of certain gun owners causes problems. |
Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 19:47:19 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 2/17/2015 6:30 PM, Abit Loco wrote: On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 16:46:45 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 2/17/2015 12:44 PM, Abit Loco wrote: On Mon, 16 Feb 2015 20:35:18 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 2/16/2015 8:18 PM, wrote: On Monday, February 16, 2015 at 7:08:10 PM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 2/16/2015 6:31 PM, wrote: On Monday, February 16, 2015 at 12:25:26 PM UTC-5, John H. wrote: The big difference between simulators/real airplanes and RC airplanes - in sims or real planes, the nose of the plane is in front of you. With an RC plane, at least part of the time, the nose is pointed at you. That means the left and right controls are reversed. This, I believe, is what causes the most problems, at least for me. Another related difference is that pilots in a real plane has a seat of the pants, first person view. Not so with RC. Something that helps newbies to RC is that when the airplane is flying towards you and the controls are reversed, your can turn your body so the transmitter is faced the same way as the plane, but look back over your shoulder at the plane. That way the stick moves to the right, the plane moves to the right. It's a crutch, but with some more stick time it'll come naturally. I don't think there's much at all in common comparing RC flying and flying a real airplane. Speed scale is totally different. Turns and maneuvers are not anything close to being realistic to flying an airplane. I see it as a fun hobby for many but to compare it to actually flying an airplane it isn't even close. If you think about it, it's very similar. The same rules apply, the aircraft reacts the same way. RC planes can do things that real planes can't, but they also suffer from the fact that they don't fly quite the same way. Said another way, the air molecules are still the same size, while the wings and control surfaces of RC planes are far smaller. That's why truly scale RC planes don't tend to fly very well. Good RC pilots can fly very realistically. I saw a jet done up in Fed-Ex colors being flown slowly and with coordinated turns. It looked very real, except for the size, although it was still large with about a 10 foot wingspan. But while you may have not meant it, your attitude is common with "real" pilots. They think of RC planes as toys. And they crash them when they first try to fly them, thinking that if they can fly the real thing, they can fly the toy. They cannot. :) Real pilots hope to walk away from a crash. RC pilots walk towards it! I wasn't knocking RC flying. I know a lot of people enjoy it. I also know a lot of people who think it's similar to actual flying (which it isn't). As you point out the scale is totally different, the power to weight ratio is different and the control surfaces behave differently. I've tried a couple once in flight. You're right. I can land an airplane but I'd crash an RC if I tried applying my flying instincts and control. Back when I was flying I used to play with whatever the current version of Microsoft Flight Simulator was at the time. I had the yoke and pedal controller set up. It was not exactly like flying but was pretty close in many ways, especially how the wing surfaces reacted in the simulator. Even more realistic when you added in a little "weather" and turbulence. I think that was much closer to the "feel" of actually flying than a RC plane can ever be. Flight simulators such as Microsoft's have very, very little resemblance to RC flying. You keep saying its not similar to actual flying. How do the control surfaces behave differently? What is the power to weight ration of the 'real' airplanes to which you refer? Do RC airplanes have a lot more power to weight? Less? Here are the motor specs for my motor: Power 15 Brushless Outrunner Motor, 950Kv Key Features Equivalent to a 15-size glow engine for sport and scale airplanes weighing 36–56 oz (1020–1590 g) Ideal for 3D airplanes weighing 32–40 oz (910–1135 g) Ideal for models requiring up to 575 watts of power High-torque, direct-drive alternative to inrunner brushless motors Includes mount, prop adapters and mounting hardware External rotor design—5mm shaft can easily be reversed for alternative motor installations Slotted 14-pole outrunner design High-quality construction with ball bearings and hardened steel shaft Here are my airplane specs: Apprentice S 15e RTF with SAFE Product Specifications Wingspan: 59.0 in (1500mm) Overall Length: 42.5 in (1080mm) Wing Area: 515 sq. in. (33.2 sq. dm.) Flying Weight: 49.0 oz (1390 g) Motor Size: 15-size brushless outrunner Radio: Spektrum DX5e transmitter (included) CG (center of gravity): 3-1/8 in (79.0mm) back from the leading edge of wing Prop Size: 11 x 8 Speed Control : 30-amp brushless (installed) Recommended Battery: 11.1V 3S 3200mAh LiPo (included) Flaps: No Retracts: No Control Throw (Ailerons): Low: 0.71 in (18mm); High: 0.91 in (23mm) Control Throw (Elevator): Low: 0.71 in (18mm); High: 0.91 in (23mm) Control Throw (Rudder): Low: 1.10 in (28mm); High: 1.35 in (35mm) How does one compare the 'power to weight' ratio? RC planes can climb faster than any comparable "real" airplane. How fast can you climb? Pretty much like a rocket. A real airplane doesn't climb like that and to try it would result in a stall very quickly. A real airplane requires taking weight, temperature, altitude and air density as factors. With RC flying, none of those issues matter much. Try flying a real airplane. Then you are qualified to judge and compare. If I tried to climb vertically with the Apprentice, I'd be in a stall very quickly. if the power is up it will do a loop, but not climb like the 3D planes discussed earlier. It's absolutely true that I don't worry much about temperature and air density as factors. Weight and its distribution are important, as is altitude. Too high and I've violated FCC regs and/or lost sight of the aircraft. A real F/A-18 will probably climb faster than any of the scale RC aircraft and is probably much faster. I've never seen any RC aircraft that could climb at 50,000 feet/min or fly 1000 mph, and that would include a scale RC F/A-18. But, maybe you have. A little sensitive about your newly found hobby, aren't you? Do my comments about an F/A-18 sound sensitive? Or was that just the best rebuttal you could come up with? You were the one telling us what real airplanes could not do. -- Guns don't cause problems. The behavior of certain gun owners causes problems. |
Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
On 2/18/15 8:09 AM, Abit Loco wrote:
On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 21:46:53 -0500, Wayne.B wrote: On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 19:34:16 -0500, Keyser Söze wrote: Don't need to. Not interested in getting a 'real' pilot's license. I have a hard enough time with RC planes - as do a lot of 'real' pilots, and I'm not talking piper cub guys. This just gets funnier and funnier. :) === Why the heck are you in this discussion? Accumulating points with Eriksson, why else? Oh, please. Richard and I disagree on a lot of subjects, and never will agree on most of them. I'm giggling at you and your comments about toy airplanes, your obsession with them, and your claims that flying toy airplanes and flying real airplanes require similar skills. Perhaps you see yourself as a *real* pilot. Some might see you as a disintegrating old fart with nothing real to do, too much time on your hands, and an endless list of hobbies. I'm not saying *I* see you that way, but some might, eh? -- Proud to be a Liberal. |
Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
On 2/18/15 8:12 AM, Abit Loco wrote:
On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 20:30:45 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 2/17/15 7:27 PM, Abit Loco wrote: On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 19:00:07 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 2/17/2015 6:05 PM, Abit Loco wrote: On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 16:28:55 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 2/17/2015 12:16 PM, Abit Loco wrote: On Mon, 16 Feb 2015 19:08:08 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 2/16/2015 6:31 PM, wrote: On Monday, February 16, 2015 at 12:25:26 PM UTC-5, John H. wrote: The big difference between simulators/real airplanes and RC airplanes - in sims or real planes, the nose of the plane is in front of you. With an RC plane, at least part of the time, the nose is pointed at you. That means the left and right controls are reversed. This, I believe, is what causes the most problems, at least for me. Another related difference is that pilots in a real plane has a seat of the pants, first person view. Not so with RC. Something that helps newbies to RC is that when the airplane is flying towards you and the controls are reversed, your can turn your body so the transmitter is faced the same way as the plane, but look back over your shoulder at the plane. That way the stick moves to the right, the plane moves to the right. It's a crutch, but with some more stick time it'll come naturally. I don't think there's much at all in common comparing RC flying and flying a real airplane. Speed scale is totally different. Turns and maneuvers are not anything close to being realistic to flying an airplane. I see it as a fun hobby for many but to compare it to actually flying an airplane it isn't even close. Many of the airplanes flown at our field fly in excess of 100mph - and that's measured by radar. One of our guys has one of these: http://www.modelairplanenews.com/blo...ini-radar-gun/ They measure real speed, not scale speed. Since I've never flown a real airplane, I can't argue your 'turns and maneuvers' statement. I know that if I bank my airplane using the ailerons and don't give it some up elevator, it will head for the dirt. Perhaps you could tell us what the big differences are. I'm thinking the biggest difference is that my crash isn't going to kill anyone. Oh, and my pre-flight checklist is shorter! An introductory flight lesson is cheap. Used to be about $50 for a half hour but maybe it's gone up now. If the CFI is halfway comfortable with how you follow directions, he'll let you taxi, take off and "fly the pattern". He'll land it although he may let you think you did. Do that and then come back and tell me how similar RC flying is to actually flying a real aircraft. You may be surprised. Flying a real airplane might be simpler. Geezie Pete - this is getting you wrapped around an axle, isn't it. While in Vietnam I was lucky enough to go up in an OV-10 for a three hour flight. The pilot was nice enough to let me fly the plane for about a half hour after flying our missions. There are a lot of similarities, especially in the controls. Pulling the stick back on the OV-10 does the same thing as pulling the stick back on the RC xmtr. And, not giving the plane some throttle when doing so could cause a stall - as the OV-10 pilot told me. Only his words were, "Do you want to crash?" Me, "No". Him, "Well you'd better give it some throttle." There were a tremendous number of similarities. Was it the same as flying an RC aircraft? Hell no. But, it was a tad more difficult than steering a train. Not me getting wrapped around an axle. You are the one who thinks flying RC airplanes is like flying a real one. Putting words in my mouth, are you? Shame on you. So you took the controls of an airplane after it took off and was flying straight and level. I did that when I was 10 years old with a pilot friend of my father. I've never proclaimed myself to be the pilot you are. Try "the hood". The hood is a device that you wear that limits your field of view to the inside of the airplane only. All you can see is the instruments. Your instructor will take control of the airplane and put it in an unusual attitude meaning it may be banked over and descending or in a banked climb nearing stall. He'll then say, "Your plane" and you learn to recover using instruments only with no ground reference. When you are in a banked turn, you can't tell by the seat of your pants. The airplane could be standing on one wing tip and you wouldn't know other than by instruments. Don't need to. Not interested in getting a 'real' pilot's license. I have a hard enough time with RC planes - as do a lot of 'real' pilots, and I'm not talking piper cub guys. Yet just a few posts ago you were asking what the "differences" are. I don't think I said that. But you, Krause, and Don do have a way of inserting words. I believe I said that there are similarities between RC flying and real airplane flying. Just as there are "similarities" between running a radio controlled toy boat in a swimming pool and a real boat in the ocean, eh? -- Proud to be a Liberal. |
Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
On 2/18/15 8:17 AM, Abit Loco wrote:
On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 19:42:20 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 2/17/2015 6:39 PM, Abit Loco wrote: On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 18:17:23 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 2/17/2015 5:58 PM, Abit Loco wrote: On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 16:34:20 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 2/17/2015 12:16 PM, Abit Loco wrote: On Mon, 16 Feb 2015 19:54:29 -0500, Keyser Söze wrote: On 2/16/15 7:08 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 2/16/2015 6:31 PM, wrote: On Monday, February 16, 2015 at 12:25:26 PM UTC-5, John H. wrote: The big difference between simulators/real airplanes and RC airplanes - in sims or real planes, the nose of the plane is in front of you. With an RC plane, at least part of the time, the nose is pointed at you. That means the left and right controls are reversed. This, I believe, is what causes the most problems, at least for me. Another related difference is that pilots in a real plane has a seat of the pants, first person view. Not so with RC. Something that helps newbies to RC is that when the airplane is flying towards you and the controls are reversed, your can turn your body so the transmitter is faced the same way as the plane, but look back over your shoulder at the plane. That way the stick moves to the right, the plane moves to the right. It's a crutch, but with some more stick time it'll come naturally. I don't think there's much at all in common comparing RC flying and flying a real airplane. Speed scale is totally different. Turns and maneuvers are not anything close to being realistic to flying an airplane. I see it as a fun hobby for many but to compare it to actually flying an airplane it isn't even close. What happens when your toy plane crashes? It breaks. What happens when a real airplane crashes? Death and destruction. And that, my friends, is the big difference! The chances of you crashing a real airplane are pretty slim compared to crashing a RC. First of all, while under instruction your CFI isn't keen on crashing. By the time you are ready to solo you will be well qualified in the eyes of your instructor. When you consider the number of people taking flight lessons every day across the country and the number of small aircraft pilots flying every day, the safety record is pretty high and the number of crashes are low. Have you ever 'buddy-boxed' with an RC instructor pilot? While under instruction, the instructor isn't keen on you ruining your airplane. He has a switch which immediately gives him control of the aircraft if he thinks trouble is approaching. When I was actively flying the thought of ruining the airplane never crossed my mind. John, if you want to believe that flying a $200 airplane by remote control emulates flying a real airplane, more power to you. I see them as two completely different experiences that require totally different skill sets. Any licensed pilot can remember every single detail of their first solo flight when the CFI was no longer sitting beside you and once you went up ... getting down alive was entirely dependent on you. Second is the cross country phase where navigation becomes key. With RC flying you don't lose where you are. I remember some of the early flight lessons when the instructor would tell me to head back to the airport ... and I just stared at the ground wondering where the hell I was. These have nothing to do with controlling or flying the airplane but are part of "real" flying. If you think there are *no* similarities between flying an RC aircraft (of any cost) and flying the real airplane, then more power to you. Now you're comparing flying an RC airplane to getting a pilot's license for a real airplane. Why not compare it to flying and landing an F/A-18 on a carrier. I'll bet that's much different from landing an RC airplane in the grass. True, when flying an RC airplane, the pilot never loses where *he* is. But, they often lose where the airplane is. Happened to me a couple weeks ago. I flew the airplane beyond my ability to see it. The clouds were much the same color as the airplane. Had to yell for help. Young guy came and got it back for me. Just calm down a bit. No one is trying to denigrate your experience in getting your pilot's license. And, when you pushed that stick left or right, you were steering the airplane, whether you like it or not! Whatever you say Captain Herring. I admit that I have many more hours logged flying for real than I have flying a RC airplane, standing on the ground and controlling it with basically a game controller. Maybe if I did it more often I'd learn how similar it is to the real thing. Then again, probably not. No interest. with a Let's see...ingrained racist, Aunt Clara, Sheriff, and now Captain...all in a couple months. From now on, whenever you're flying your real airplane, you will think this: "STICK LEFT, STEER LEFT" "STICK RIGHT, STEER RIGHT" That thought will become ingrained. Don't ever mistake it with countersteering! Yup...we're on our way to Herring's 30+ posts today about toy airplanes. -- Proud to be a Liberal. |
Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 20:11:53 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 2/17/2015 6:45 PM, Califbill wrote: wrote: On Monday, February 16, 2015 at 7:08:10 PM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 2/16/2015 6:31 PM, wrote: On Monday, February 16, 2015 at 12:25:26 PM UTC-5, John H. wrote: The big difference between simulators/real airplanes and RC airplanes - in sims or real planes, the nose of the plane is in front of you. With an RC plane, at least part of the time, the nose is pointed at you. That means the left and right controls are reversed. This, I believe, is what causes the most problems, at least for me. Another related difference is that pilots in a real plane has a seat of the pants, first person view. Not so with RC. Something that helps newbies to RC is that when the airplane is flying towards you and the controls are reversed, your can turn your body so the transmitter is faced the same way as the plane, but look back over your shoulder at the plane. That way the stick moves to the right, the plane moves to the right. It's a crutch, but with some more stick time it'll come naturally. I don't think there's much at all in common comparing RC flying and flying a real airplane. Speed scale is totally different. Turns and maneuvers are not anything close to being realistic to flying an airplane. I see it as a fun hobby for many but to compare it to actually flying an airplane it isn't even close. If you think about it, it's very similar. The same rules apply, the aircraft reacts the same way. RC planes can do things that real planes can't, but they also suffer from the fact that they don't fly quite the same way. Said another way, the air molecules are still the same size, while the wings and control surfaces of RC planes are far smaller. That's why truly scale RC planes don't tend to fly very well. Good RC pilots can fly very realistically. I saw a jet done up in Fed-Ex colors being flown slowly and with coordinated turns. It looked very real, except for the size, although it was still large with about a 10 foot wingspan. But while you may have not meant it, your attitude is common with "real" pilots. They think of RC planes as toys. And they crash them when they first try to fly them, thinking that if they can fly the real thing, they can fly the toy. They cannot. :) Real pilots hope to walk away from a crash. RC pilots walk towards it! The airplanes do not react the same way. Lots more mass and leverage differences in a real airplane. The more I think about it the more the differences become obvious. When starting your take off roll, how do you "steer" the RC? Or do you? With the landing gear and rudder. When landing, how do you correct for crosswinds? Dipped wing or slip? Rudder, ailerons and elevator, as necessary. What's your pre-flight like. What's a "run up". Magneto check limits? Battery Check - Airplane and transmitter Structure check - no loose parts or cracks Landing gear check - everything tight and operable Ensure ESCV switch is 'OFF' Ensure throttle off - cut switch Transmitter on Insert battery, ensure security Level aircraft Turn ESC switch on Initialize S.A.F.E. Perform range check Perform controls check Taxi aircraft - trim as needed Take off What's your landing pattern procedures? Notify other fliers of landing Line up with runway markers Throttle off Raise nose just before touchdown Taxi to safe area As I don't have flaps or retracts, those do not come into play. How do you stop the plane when you land? With the throttle off, the airplane will not roll very far. If necessary, I can *steer* the plane and taxi it to my feet. Grass has a tendency to stop these things pretty quickly. How do you control direction of the plane when taxiing? Landing gear/rudder Those are but a few very basic issues of "real" flying that I don't think the average RC pilot deals with. You would be wrong, but that's OK. I have a lot of respect for the RC hobbyist who builds his own airplane from a kit or from scratch, assembling all the frame and wing sections, flaps, ailerons, tail, etc. Then he covers the airframe with paper or cloth and seals it. He wires all the control motors and tests. Might take him the better part of a year to do at a cost of several thousand dollars. Then he gets the satisfaction of it's first successful flight. To me, that's a true RC hobbyist. Well seek...I'll never meet your expectations. On the other hand, I have a lot of respect for a pilot that can take his plane off a pitching aircraft carrier deck and land on same. To me, that's a true airplane pilot. (Now doesn't that sound pretty friggin' ridiculous? Do you think I give a **** whether or not I meet your 'true RC hobbyist' expectations? I did all my building balsa models years ago...don't need to do so now.) Ordering one from Amazon, ready to fly, for a couple of hundred bucks and a pair of aviator sun glasses just isn't the same thing to me. I'm sure it isn't. -- Guns don't cause problems. The behavior of certain gun owners causes problems. |
Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 20:43:23 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 2/17/2015 8:22 PM, Abit Loco wrote: On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 19:03:38 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 2/17/2015 6:11 PM, Abit Loco wrote: On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 14:47:49 -0800 (PST), True North wrote: I'm not sure it's a good idea to encourage Johnny to try real flying. If he has half the problems with a real plane as he does with his toy versions....Lord help the local folk. You have to admit, it's kind of fun watching Krause and Eriksson 'gang up' on Herring over something so ridiculous. What a laugh! Ganging up? I told you that I am not knocking your RC flying hobby. It's fun for many. You are the one who is trying to convince me and others that flying a RC airplane is similar to real flying. There are similarities. Period. That's all anyone here has said. I think that ingrained pilot arrogance is rearing its ugly head. Done for today. Sleep well. I can more clearly understand why some consider you an asshole. I wasn't looking for a fight nor was I boasting about having a pilot's license. I acknowledged that I wasn't knocking your hobby and I acknowledged that I am not a "natural" pilot and didn't particularly find it relaxing or even fun. Coulda fooled the **** right out of me! You are the one who asked what the differences where. I tried to present a few and you respond with the pilot arrogance thing. It was not me who responded with the pilot arrogance thing, although I'll admit to using the word later. You remind me of an old lady sometimes. Amazing that you made it in the Army for so long. Good morning! Some consider me an asshole because I'm assholish. -- Guns don't cause problems. The behavior of certain gun owners causes problems. |
Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
On Wednesday, February 18, 2015 at 8:17:27 AM UTC-5, John H. wrote:
On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 19:42:20 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: Whatever you say Captain Herring. I admit that I have many more hours logged flying for real than I have flying a RC airplane, standing on the ground and controlling it with basically a game controller. Maybe if I did it more often I'd learn how similar it is to the real thing. Then again, probably not. No interest. with a Let's see...ingrained racist, Aunt Clara, Sheriff, and now Captain...all in a couple months. From now on, whenever you're flying your real airplane, you will think this: "STICK LEFT, STEER LEFT" "STICK RIGHT, STEER RIGHT" That thought will become ingrained. Don't ever mistake it with countersteering! -- Guns don't cause problems. The behavior of certain gun owners causes problems. Say, aren't "real" airplanes and a pilot's license just toys for wealthy boys? :) |
Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
On 2/18/15 8:45 AM, Abit Loco wrote:
Some consider me an asshole because I'm assholish. No disagreement from me. :) -- Proud to be a Liberal. |
Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 20:33:47 -0600, Califbill wrote:
Abit Loco wrote: On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 19:03:38 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 2/17/2015 6:11 PM, Abit Loco wrote: On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 14:47:49 -0800 (PST), True North wrote: I'm not sure it's a good idea to encourage Johnny to try real flying. If he has half the problems with a real plane as he does with his toy versions....Lord help the local folk. You have to admit, it's kind of fun watching Krause and Eriksson 'gang up' on Herring over something so ridiculous. What a laugh! Ganging up? I told you that I am not knocking your RC flying hobby. It's fun for many. You are the one who is trying to convince me and others that flying a RC airplane is similar to real flying. There are similarities. Period. That's all anyone here has said. I think that ingrained pilot arrogance is rearing its ugly head. Done for today. Sleep well. I flew u controls as a kid, wanted RC but was not in my budget. I do not have a pilots license but have flown with a pilot in some cool airplanes. Besides a 172. The Ucontrol is an example of very much quicker response than a real airplane. Someways is harder to fly a model airplane because of the very quick response characteristic and the fact you are not at 5000'. As a kid I was limited to U-control also. Hell, an RC airplane, transmitter, receiver, servos and all that stuff would cost well over $1000. I was building when Monocote came out. Wow, was that stuff nice compared to the paper and dope coverings. My favorite was the Ringmaster. Not too expensive and not overly difficult to assemble. http://tinyurl.com/ntsy5n9 But, if a control line broke while doing a wingover, it was time for a new airplane. -- Guns don't cause problems. The behavior of certain gun owners causes problems. |
Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
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Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 20:41:57 -0500, Wayne.B wrote:
On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 17:10:34 -0500, Keyser Söze wrote: This is really funny stuff...thanks, Luddite. :) And remember, driving that RC boat in a swimming pool is just like driving a real boat through a ferocious inlet. I mean, what's the difference? === What the heck would you know about driving a *real* boat through a ferocious inlet? Really. With regard to Dick's suggestion about taking a flying lesson, I highly recommend it. Introductory lessons are usually priced at reasonable rates and it will give you a taste of the real deal. You'll find it quite interesting. My first lesson was in a Piper J3 tail dragger with no doors or windows and controlled with a "stick". It was about as basic as you can get short of an ultra light. I'd like to find someone who would take me and a couple grandkids up in one of those piper style airplanes. -- Guns don't cause problems. The behavior of certain gun owners causes problems. |
Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
On Wed, 18 Feb 2015 00:27:01 -0500, Wayne.B wrote:
On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 23:49:35 -0500, wrote: On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 20:41:57 -0500, Wayne.B wrote: What the heck would you know about driving a *real* boat through a ferocious inlet? Really. Maybe he took a 16' boat out of Deale That can be exciting on a windy day. === I think the biggest boat that harry has actually owned was the 24 ft Parker. Not a bad boat for the Chesapeake on a moderately calm day but not my choice for going offshore any distance. Apparently the fuel burn on the 24 was too much for him as I recall. I did a lot of bay fishing in my 21'er. Always had folks willing to be a 'boat ho' for the day, so it must not have been too bad. We never went out if the small craft warnings were posted. -- Guns don't cause problems. The behavior of certain gun owners causes problems. |
Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
On Wed, 18 Feb 2015 07:16:08 -0500, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 2/18/15 1:34 AM, wrote: On Wed, 18 Feb 2015 00:27:01 -0500, Wayne.B wrote: On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 23:49:35 -0500, wrote: On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 20:41:57 -0500, Wayne.B wrote: What the heck would you know about driving a *real* boat through a ferocious inlet? Really. Maybe he took a 16' boat out of Deale That can be exciting on a windy day. === I think the biggest boat that harry has actually owned was the 24 ft Parker. Not a bad boat for the Chesapeake on a moderately calm day but not my choice for going offshore any distance. Apparently the fuel burn on the 24 was too much for him as I recall. He had a buck and a half Yamaha as I recall. My neighbor has a new one and he says it is a lot better on gas than the 115 4s Merc. I am not sure if that was the same motor Harry had tho. As for the boat, a 24 should be fine in the bay. I used to fish on a 22.2 Aquasport all the time and we ran from Scheibels down to a ledge 20 miles south of Tangier most of the time. It wasn't a bad ride. The little 16' had, not so much ;-) I had a 225 Yammy on a 25' Parker that weighed 3-1/2 tons and was suitable for reasonable offshore work. Later had a 150 Yammy on a 21' deep vee that was also suitable for reasonable offshore work. When we lived in Florida and I had an 18' center console boat, we'd often go 20 miles offshore to fish some wrecks. There are plenty of guys who fish the Bay here in 16' boats. Perhaps you simply didn't have the balls or back for it. Gosh, and here just a while back you were telling me my 18'er was way too small for the bay. Gosh, Harry. You sure do change stories a lot. -- Guns don't cause problems. The behavior of certain gun owners causes problems. |
Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
On Wed, 18 Feb 2015 07:12:47 -0500, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 2/17/15 11:49 PM, wrote: On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 20:41:57 -0500, Wayne.B wrote: What the heck would you know about driving a *real* boat through a ferocious inlet? Really. Maybe he took a 16' boat out of Deale That can be exciting on a windy day. Sorry, Gregster, never had a 16 footer up here. Smallest was a 19-footer. No ferocious inlets up here, either. Why are you commenting about inlets, when your boating is done on a flat-calm swamp in a beat up old pontoon boat that looks like a prop from Duck Dynasty? I could be wrong, but it seems like *you* were the one who brought up the 'ferocious inlet' activity, no? -- Guns don't cause problems. The behavior of certain gun owners causes problems. |
Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 20:44:29 -0500, Wayne.B wrote:
On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 17:22:57 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: This is a common debate between RC pilots and those who hold a pilot's license. Like I said before I don't knock those to enjoy the RC thing. It's fun for many but it's a totally different experience. Sure, there are similarities in the respect that both have wings and go up in the air. But that's about it. I did all of my flight instruction in a Cessna 152. After I soloed I flew the 152 and a 150 quite a bit. I did the cross country phase and final check flight for my ticket in a Cessna 172. All the Cessna's were high winged aircraft. After a while I wanted to try something different, so I arranged for a checkout flight in a Piper Warrior which is more powerful and low winged. Felt like I was flying a Boeing 747 by comparison. That all said, I am glad I did it but I also realized I am not a "natural" pilot who enjoys the stresses of flying. I like boating much more. === I agree with all that, and most importantly, boats do not fall from the sky when you screw up. :-) Don't these new boats have the S.A.F.E. technology? I'll bet Harry's does, so he can navigate ferocious inlets. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZpFSE2pUI0 I've never used my SAFE switch. Never had enough time to get to it. -- Guns don't cause problems. The behavior of certain gun owners causes problems. |
Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
On 2/18/15 9:01 AM, Abit Loco wrote:
Gosh, and here just a while back you were telling me my 18'er was way too small for the bay. Gosh, Harry. You sure do change stories a lot. When was that, John? During one of your anesthesia induced surgeries? -- Proud to be a Liberal. |
Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
On Wed, 18 Feb 2015 07:52:38 -0500, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 2/18/15 7:49 AM, Abit Loco wrote: On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 21:10:41 -0500, Wayne.B wrote: On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 12:16:06 -0500, Abit Loco wrote: Since I've never flown a real airplane, I can't argue your 'turns and maneuvers' statement. I know that if I bank my airplane using the ailerons and don't give it some up elevator, it will head for the dirt. Perhaps you could tell us what the big differences are. === In a real plane you initiate a turn by briefly banking the plane with the ailerons and giving it a momentary touch of rudder in the desired direction. The plane will stay banked and continue to turn until you reverse the process. And yes, you do need to pull back on the stick or yoke a bit to maintain altitude. Does a model behave the same way? More or less. I use my rudder very little, unless there's a side wind. But a little up elevator is a necessity to maintain the same altitude. Are you going to put up another set of 30-40 posts today about your toy model airplanes? How about mixing in some golf, RV, hillbilly music, steel ammo posts, just for, oh, variety? And perhaps a few about your surgeries, past, present, and future... Is the Bozo's Bin needing another entry? Would you prefer your brand of anti-this and that posting. Eriksson had some good advice for you - if you don't like the posts, don't read them. Remember? -- Guns don't cause problems. The behavior of certain gun owners causes problems. |
Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
On Wed, 18 Feb 2015 08:10:50 -0500, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 2/18/15 8:08 AM, Abit Loco wrote: On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 19:12:46 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: I notice you skipped over my response to your 'real airplane doesn't climb like that' comment. Have you seen RC airplanes that can climb like an F/A-18? Hehehehehehe... And the bleat goes on. He will probably pull your game, telling me I'm not 'entitled' to an answer. -- Guns don't cause problems. The behavior of certain gun owners causes problems. |
Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
On Wed, 18 Feb 2015 08:25:08 -0500, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 2/18/15 8:09 AM, Abit Loco wrote: On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 21:46:53 -0500, Wayne.B wrote: On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 19:34:16 -0500, Keyser Söze wrote: Don't need to. Not interested in getting a 'real' pilot's license. I have a hard enough time with RC planes - as do a lot of 'real' pilots, and I'm not talking piper cub guys. This just gets funnier and funnier. :) === Why the heck are you in this discussion? Accumulating points with Eriksson, why else? Oh, please. Richard and I disagree on a lot of subjects, and never will agree on most of them. I'm giggling at you and your comments about toy airplanes, your obsession with them, and your claims that flying toy airplanes and flying real airplanes require similar skills. Perhaps you see yourself as a *real* pilot. Some might see you as a disintegrating old fart with nothing real to do, too much time on your hands, and an endless list of hobbies. I'm not saying *I* see you that way, but some might, eh? Touched a nerve, eh? -- Guns don't cause problems. The behavior of certain gun owners causes problems. |
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