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Keyser Söze February 17th 15 10:10 PM

Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
 
On 2/17/15 4:37 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/17/2015 12:25 PM, Abit Loco wrote:
On Mon, 16 Feb 2015 20:18:55 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/16/2015 7:54 PM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 2/16/15 7:08 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/16/2015 6:31 PM, wrote:
On Monday, February 16, 2015 at 12:25:26 PM UTC-5, John H. wrote:

The big difference between simulators/real airplanes and RC
airplanes
- in sims or
real planes, the nose of the plane is in front of you. With an RC
plane, at least
part of the time, the nose is pointed at you. That means the left
and
right controls
are reversed. This, I believe, is what causes the most problems, at
least for me.

Another related difference is that pilots in a real plane has a seat
of the pants, first person view. Not so with RC.

Something that helps newbies to RC is that when the airplane is
flying
towards you and the controls are reversed, your can turn your body so
the transmitter is faced the same way as the plane, but look back
over
your shoulder at the plane. That way the stick moves to the right,
the plane moves to the right. It's a crutch, but with some more
stick
time it'll come naturally.



I don't think there's much at all in common comparing RC flying and
flying a real airplane. Speed scale is totally different. Turns
and maneuvers are not anything close to being realistic to flying an
airplane.

I see it as a fun hobby for many but to compare it to actually flying
an airplane it isn't even close.



What happens when your toy plane crashes? It breaks.
What happens when a real airplane crashes? Death and destruction.





True.

I've seen some large RC planes that appear to be very realistic in
flight, maneuvers, take-offs and landings but the smaller ones I've
seen people flying are way out of scale to anything real. They can
do turns, climbs, etc. that would cause a human pilot to pass out
or worse.

The bigger ones fly slower, maneuver more slowly and look much more
realistic.

The smaller ones, depending on the configuration, can fly slower,
maneuver more
slowly and also look very realistic. My Apprentice, with its
tremendous wing area,
can stay aloft at little more than a walking speed.

Something like this, on the other hand, requires some speed just to
stay aloft.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=uN5BD4e55hE

I am not knocking those who enjoy the RC hobby thing. I just don't
think you can come close to comparing it to actual flying.



Why not? Granted, you're not in the airplane, but other than that
what's the big
difference?


Well, I've done both. Again I am not knocking your RC hobby but you
really cannot compare the two. Like I suggested in a different post,
go take an introductory flight lesson. Then you can compare for yourself.





This is really funny stuff...thanks, Luddite. :) And remember, driving
that RC boat in a swimming pool is just like driving a real boat through
a ferocious inlet. I mean, what's the difference?

--
Proud to be a Liberal.

Mr. Luddite February 17th 15 10:22 PM

Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
 
On 2/17/2015 5:10 PM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 2/17/15 4:37 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/17/2015 12:25 PM, Abit Loco wrote:
On Mon, 16 Feb 2015 20:18:55 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/16/2015 7:54 PM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 2/16/15 7:08 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/16/2015 6:31 PM, wrote:
On Monday, February 16, 2015 at 12:25:26 PM UTC-5, John H. wrote:

The big difference between simulators/real airplanes and RC
airplanes
- in sims or
real planes, the nose of the plane is in front of you. With an RC
plane, at least
part of the time, the nose is pointed at you. That means the left
and
right controls
are reversed. This, I believe, is what causes the most problems, at
least for me.

Another related difference is that pilots in a real plane has a seat
of the pants, first person view. Not so with RC.

Something that helps newbies to RC is that when the airplane is
flying
towards you and the controls are reversed, your can turn your
body so
the transmitter is faced the same way as the plane, but look back
over
your shoulder at the plane. That way the stick moves to the right,
the plane moves to the right. It's a crutch, but with some more
stick
time it'll come naturally.



I don't think there's much at all in common comparing RC flying and
flying a real airplane. Speed scale is totally different. Turns
and maneuvers are not anything close to being realistic to flying an
airplane.

I see it as a fun hobby for many but to compare it to actually flying
an airplane it isn't even close.



What happens when your toy plane crashes? It breaks.
What happens when a real airplane crashes? Death and destruction.





True.

I've seen some large RC planes that appear to be very realistic in
flight, maneuvers, take-offs and landings but the smaller ones I've
seen people flying are way out of scale to anything real. They can
do turns, climbs, etc. that would cause a human pilot to pass out
or worse.

The bigger ones fly slower, maneuver more slowly and look much more
realistic.

The smaller ones, depending on the configuration, can fly slower,
maneuver more
slowly and also look very realistic. My Apprentice, with its
tremendous wing area,
can stay aloft at little more than a walking speed.

Something like this, on the other hand, requires some speed just to
stay aloft.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=uN5BD4e55hE

I am not knocking those who enjoy the RC hobby thing. I just don't
think you can come close to comparing it to actual flying.



Why not? Granted, you're not in the airplane, but other than that
what's the big
difference?


Well, I've done both. Again I am not knocking your RC hobby but you
really cannot compare the two. Like I suggested in a different post,
go take an introductory flight lesson. Then you can compare for
yourself.





This is really funny stuff...thanks, Luddite. :) And remember, driving
that RC boat in a swimming pool is just like driving a real boat through
a ferocious inlet. I mean, what's the difference?



This is a common debate between RC pilots and those who hold a pilot's
license. Like I said before I don't knock those to enjoy the RC thing.
It's fun for many but it's a totally different experience.
Sure, there are similarities in the respect that both have wings
and go up in the air. But that's about it.

I did all of my flight instruction in a Cessna 152. After I soloed I
flew the 152 and a 150 quite a bit. I did the cross country phase and
final check flight for my ticket in a Cessna 172. All the Cessna's were
high winged aircraft.

After a while I wanted to try something different, so I arranged for a
checkout flight in a Piper Warrior which is more powerful and low
winged. Felt like I was flying a Boeing 747 by comparison.

That all said, I am glad I did it but I also realized I am not a
"natural" pilot who enjoys the stresses of flying. I like boating much
more.



Mr. Luddite February 17th 15 10:27 PM

Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
 
On 2/17/2015 5:10 PM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 2/17/15 4:37 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/17/2015 12:25 PM, Abit Loco wrote:
On Mon, 16 Feb 2015 20:18:55 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/16/2015 7:54 PM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 2/16/15 7:08 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/16/2015 6:31 PM, wrote:
On Monday, February 16, 2015 at 12:25:26 PM UTC-5, John H. wrote:

The big difference between simulators/real airplanes and RC
airplanes
- in sims or
real planes, the nose of the plane is in front of you. With an RC
plane, at least
part of the time, the nose is pointed at you. That means the left
and
right controls
are reversed. This, I believe, is what causes the most problems, at
least for me.

Another related difference is that pilots in a real plane has a seat
of the pants, first person view. Not so with RC.

Something that helps newbies to RC is that when the airplane is
flying
towards you and the controls are reversed, your can turn your
body so
the transmitter is faced the same way as the plane, but look back
over
your shoulder at the plane. That way the stick moves to the right,
the plane moves to the right. It's a crutch, but with some more
stick
time it'll come naturally.



I don't think there's much at all in common comparing RC flying and
flying a real airplane. Speed scale is totally different. Turns
and maneuvers are not anything close to being realistic to flying an
airplane.

I see it as a fun hobby for many but to compare it to actually flying
an airplane it isn't even close.



What happens when your toy plane crashes? It breaks.
What happens when a real airplane crashes? Death and destruction.





True.

I've seen some large RC planes that appear to be very realistic in
flight, maneuvers, take-offs and landings but the smaller ones I've
seen people flying are way out of scale to anything real. They can
do turns, climbs, etc. that would cause a human pilot to pass out
or worse.

The bigger ones fly slower, maneuver more slowly and look much more
realistic.

The smaller ones, depending on the configuration, can fly slower,
maneuver more
slowly and also look very realistic. My Apprentice, with its
tremendous wing area,
can stay aloft at little more than a walking speed.

Something like this, on the other hand, requires some speed just to
stay aloft.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=uN5BD4e55hE

I am not knocking those who enjoy the RC hobby thing. I just don't
think you can come close to comparing it to actual flying.



Why not? Granted, you're not in the airplane, but other than that
what's the big
difference?


Well, I've done both. Again I am not knocking your RC hobby but you
really cannot compare the two. Like I suggested in a different post,
go take an introductory flight lesson. Then you can compare for
yourself.





This is really funny stuff...thanks, Luddite. :) And remember, driving
that RC boat in a swimming pool is just like driving a real boat through
a ferocious inlet. I mean, what's the difference?


LOL



True North[_2_] February 17th 15 10:47 PM

Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
 
I'm not sure it's a good idea to encourage Johnny to try real flying.
If he has half the problems with a real plane as he does with his toy versions....Lord help the local folk.

John H[_15_] February 17th 15 10:53 PM

Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
 
On Tuesday, February 17, 2015 at 2:10:28 PM UTC-5, Keyser Söze wrote:
Abit Loco wrote:
On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 10:38:25 -0800 (PST), wrote:

Oh, and I agree with you about how similar flying RC and full scale
really is. I've said it before, but with RC you lose the 1st person,
seat of the pants experience that full scale pilots have. But the
wings, rudder, elevator, ailerons, vertical and horizontal stabilizers
all do the same exact things on RC as they do with full scale aircraft..
The biggest difference is where the pilots are, in respect to their
planes, while manipulating the controls.


And, weather and turbulence can definitely play a part in RC flying!


Wow...glad I skipped the last 30 or so posts on toy planes. Y-a-w-n.
--
Sent from my iPhone 6+


Yeah, I'll be the first to admit they weren't sexually oriented, anti-Christian, anti-Republican, anti-Palin, or just plain anti-social. Very boring stuff.

Mr. Luddite February 17th 15 10:55 PM

Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
 
On 2/17/2015 5:47 PM, True North wrote:
I'm not sure it's a good idea to encourage Johnny to try real flying.
If he has half the problems with a real plane as he does with his toy versions....Lord help the local folk.



RC "pilots" take great umbrage when you call their airplanes "toys".

This people disagree though...

http://www.toysrus.com/family/index.jsp?categoryId=2290621

Abit Loco February 17th 15 10:58 PM

Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
 
On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 16:34:20 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/17/2015 12:16 PM, Abit Loco wrote:
On Mon, 16 Feb 2015 19:54:29 -0500, Keyser Söze wrote:

On 2/16/15 7:08 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/16/2015 6:31 PM, wrote:
On Monday, February 16, 2015 at 12:25:26 PM UTC-5, John H. wrote:

The big difference between simulators/real airplanes and RC airplanes
- in sims or
real planes, the nose of the plane is in front of you. With an RC
plane, at least
part of the time, the nose is pointed at you. That means the left and
right controls
are reversed. This, I believe, is what causes the most problems, at
least for me.

Another related difference is that pilots in a real plane has a seat
of the pants, first person view. Not so with RC.

Something that helps newbies to RC is that when the airplane is flying
towards you and the controls are reversed, your can turn your body so
the transmitter is faced the same way as the plane, but look back over
your shoulder at the plane. That way the stick moves to the right,
the plane moves to the right. It's a crutch, but with some more stick
time it'll come naturally.



I don't think there's much at all in common comparing RC flying and
flying a real airplane. Speed scale is totally different. Turns
and maneuvers are not anything close to being realistic to flying an
airplane.

I see it as a fun hobby for many but to compare it to actually flying
an airplane it isn't even close.



What happens when your toy plane crashes? It breaks.
What happens when a real airplane crashes? Death and destruction.


And that, my friends, is the big difference!



The chances of you crashing a real airplane are pretty slim compared to
crashing a RC. First of all, while under instruction your CFI isn't
keen on crashing. By the time you are ready to solo you will be well
qualified in the eyes of your instructor.

When you consider the number of people taking flight lessons every day
across the country and the number of small aircraft pilots flying every
day, the safety record is pretty high and the number of crashes are low.


Have you ever 'buddy-boxed' with an RC instructor pilot? While under instruction, the
instructor isn't keen on you ruining your airplane. He has a switch which immediately
gives him control of the aircraft if he thinks trouble is approaching.
--

Guns don't cause problems. The behavior
of certain gun owners causes problems.

Abit Loco February 17th 15 11:05 PM

Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
 
On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 16:28:55 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/17/2015 12:16 PM, Abit Loco wrote:
On Mon, 16 Feb 2015 19:08:08 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/16/2015 6:31 PM, wrote:
On Monday, February 16, 2015 at 12:25:26 PM UTC-5, John H. wrote:

The big difference between simulators/real airplanes and RC airplanes - in sims or
real planes, the nose of the plane is in front of you. With an RC plane, at least
part of the time, the nose is pointed at you. That means the left and right controls
are reversed. This, I believe, is what causes the most problems, at least for me.

Another related difference is that pilots in a real plane has a seat of the pants, first person view. Not so with RC.

Something that helps newbies to RC is that when the airplane is flying towards you and the controls are reversed, your can turn your body so the transmitter is faced the same way as the plane, but look back over your shoulder at the plane. That way the stick moves to the right, the plane moves to the right. It's a crutch, but with some more stick time it'll come naturally.



I don't think there's much at all in common comparing RC flying and
flying a real airplane. Speed scale is totally different. Turns
and maneuvers are not anything close to being realistic to flying an
airplane.

I see it as a fun hobby for many but to compare it to actually flying
an airplane it isn't even close.


Many of the airplanes flown at our field fly in excess of 100mph - and that's
measured by radar.

One of our guys has one of these:
http://www.modelairplanenews.com/blo...ini-radar-gun/

They measure real speed, not scale speed.

Since I've never flown a real airplane, I can't argue your 'turns and maneuvers'
statement. I know that if I bank my airplane using the ailerons and don't give it
some up elevator, it will head for the dirt. Perhaps you could tell us what the big
differences are.

I'm thinking the biggest difference is that my crash isn't going to kill anyone. Oh,
and my pre-flight checklist is shorter!


An introductory flight lesson is cheap. Used to be about $50 for a half
hour but maybe it's gone up now.

If the CFI is halfway comfortable with how you follow directions, he'll
let you taxi, take off and "fly the pattern". He'll land it although he
may let you think you did.

Do that and then come back and tell me how similar RC flying is to
actually flying a real aircraft. You may be surprised. Flying a
real airplane might be simpler.


Geezie Pete - this is getting you wrapped around an axle, isn't it.

While in Vietnam I was lucky enough to go up in an OV-10 for a three hour flight. The
pilot was nice enough to let me fly the plane for about a half hour after flying our
missions.

There are a lot of similarities, especially in the controls. Pulling the stick back
on the OV-10 does the same thing as pulling the stick back on the RC xmtr. And, not
giving the plane some throttle when doing so could cause a stall - as the OV-10 pilot
told me. Only his words were, "Do you want to crash?" Me, "No". Him, "Well you'd
better give it some throttle."

There were a tremendous number of similarities.

Was it the same as flying an RC aircraft? Hell no. But, it was a tad more difficult
than steering a train.
--

Guns don't cause problems. The behavior
of certain gun owners causes problems.

Abit Loco February 17th 15 11:06 PM

Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
 
On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 16:37:36 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/17/2015 12:25 PM, Abit Loco wrote:
On Mon, 16 Feb 2015 20:18:55 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/16/2015 7:54 PM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 2/16/15 7:08 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/16/2015 6:31 PM, wrote:
On Monday, February 16, 2015 at 12:25:26 PM UTC-5, John H. wrote:

The big difference between simulators/real airplanes and RC airplanes
- in sims or
real planes, the nose of the plane is in front of you. With an RC
plane, at least
part of the time, the nose is pointed at you. That means the left and
right controls
are reversed. This, I believe, is what causes the most problems, at
least for me.

Another related difference is that pilots in a real plane has a seat
of the pants, first person view. Not so with RC.

Something that helps newbies to RC is that when the airplane is flying
towards you and the controls are reversed, your can turn your body so
the transmitter is faced the same way as the plane, but look back over
your shoulder at the plane. That way the stick moves to the right,
the plane moves to the right. It's a crutch, but with some more stick
time it'll come naturally.



I don't think there's much at all in common comparing RC flying and
flying a real airplane. Speed scale is totally different. Turns
and maneuvers are not anything close to being realistic to flying an
airplane.

I see it as a fun hobby for many but to compare it to actually flying
an airplane it isn't even close.



What happens when your toy plane crashes? It breaks.
What happens when a real airplane crashes? Death and destruction.





True.

I've seen some large RC planes that appear to be very realistic in
flight, maneuvers, take-offs and landings but the smaller ones I've
seen people flying are way out of scale to anything real. They can
do turns, climbs, etc. that would cause a human pilot to pass out
or worse.

The bigger ones fly slower, maneuver more slowly and look much more
realistic.

The smaller ones, depending on the configuration, can fly slower, maneuver more
slowly and also look very realistic. My Apprentice, with its tremendous wing area,
can stay aloft at little more than a walking speed.

Something like this, on the other hand, requires some speed just to stay aloft.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=uN5BD4e55hE

I am not knocking those who enjoy the RC hobby thing. I just don't
think you can come close to comparing it to actual flying.



Why not? Granted, you're not in the airplane, but other than that what's the big
difference?


Well, I've done both. Again I am not knocking your RC hobby but you
really cannot compare the two. Like I suggested in a different post,
go take an introductory flight lesson. Then you can compare for yourself.


So have I, and the two can be compared. They are much different, but they can be
compared.
--

Guns don't cause problems. The behavior
of certain gun owners causes problems.

Abit Loco February 17th 15 11:07 PM

Navy Carrier Pilots - Overpaid?
 
On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 16:21:34 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/17/2015 12:04 PM, Abit Loco wrote:
On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 09:41:20 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/17/2015 7:24 AM, wrote:
On Monday, February 16, 2015 at 9:07:56 PM UTC-5, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 2/16/15 8:19 PM,
wrote:
On Monday, February 16, 2015 at 6:57:42 PM UTC-5, Keyser Söze wrote:

Works with other toys, too, like model railroad layouts.

That's stupid. You don't have to steer a model railroad.


You've heard of switches, right?

Switches move the train from one track to another.

The track itself "steers" the train.



True but pilots don't "steer" a plane either. They fly them.

From Dictionary.com:

verb (used without object)
4.
to direct the course of a vessel, vehicle, airplane, or the like, by the use of a
rudder or other means.

One could say that a pilot does, in fact, steer his airplane. Trains are not
'steered'.


Go take a flying lesson. Tell the CFI you want to "steer" the plane.


Blame the dictionary, don't blame me.
--

Guns don't cause problems. The behavior
of certain gun owners causes problems.


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