Had to share this story
 

On Sun, 02 Nov 2014 11:25:11 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 11/2/2014 11:03 AM, wrote:
On Sunday, November 2, 2014 10:35:46 AM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 11/2/2014 10:12 AM, wrote:
On Sunday, November 2, 2014 9:29:22 AM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:


For example, I've looked at the gun laws in South Carolina. All you
have to do is prove you are a resident and you can buy a gun. No
permit, no license, no safety course. Nothing. A permit is required if
you want to conceal carry however.

Well, not quite.

"Federal law requires federally licensed firearms dealers (but not private sellers) to initiate a background check on the purchaser prior to sale of a firearm. Federal law provides states with the option of serving as a state "point of contact" and conducting their own background checks using state, as well as federal, records and databases, or having the checks performed by the FBI using only the federal National Instant Criminal Background Check System ("NICS") database. (Note that state files are not always included in the federal database.)

South Carolina is not a point of contact state for firearm purchaser background checks.1 In South Carolina, firearms dealers must initiate the background check required by federal law by contacting the FBI directly.

Federal law does not require dealers to conduct a background check if a firearm purchaser presents a state permit to purchase or possess firearms that meets certain conditions.2 As a result, concealable weapons permit holders in South Carolina are exempt from the federal background check requirement.3 (Note, however, that people who have become prohibited from possessing firearms may continue to hold state permits to purchase or carry firearms if the state fails to remove these permits in a timely fashion.).

South Carolina law states that a person must be a resident of South Carolina to purchase a handgun from a South Carolina dealer, and that the possession of a valid South Carolina driver's license or Department of Motor Vehicles identification card constitutes proof of residency.4 A dealer may not sell a handgun without clear evidence as to the identity of the purchaser being furnished to the dealer.5

South Carolina does not require private sellers (sellers who are not licensed dealers) to initiate a background check when transferring a firearm."

So, that reads to me that I must be a resident, and will have a background check done on me unless I am a concealed permit holder.

Should I have to take a safety course to get a permit to buy a gun? I'm on the fence with that. One thing is for sure... requiring that would not have any effect on gun crimes. Criminals don't get permits or care about safety, right?



I asked my son about this a while back after he moved to SC. He seemed
to think all you needed was a driver's license to prove residency. He
had a concealed carry permit here in MA but he didn't bother getting one
in SC. He said you can have a handgun in your car in the glove
compartment or center console without a concealed carry permit.

From what you've said it sounds like a SC dealer does an "instant"
background check at the time of purchase like they do in Florida.

You and your son are correct, at least with my understanding of the state laws. This website has some really good info. It might be helpful especially since you are considering a move to our fine state!

http://www.charlestonlaw.net/handgun-carry-laws-south-carolina/

If you do move down here, I think you'll enjoy it. Great weather while still retaining the four seasons, and the Charleston area is nice and has some really outstanding restaurants. The natives are nice too!



My son and his family moved down there about 2 and a half years ago.
They have two girls, (one 16, one 10 or 11) and 3 year old twins ... a
boy and a girl. All of them love it down there.

Of all things, he decided to buy an existing liqueur store in the Mt.
Pleasant area where he lives. It was run down and not doing that well
so he applied and received the licenses required, bought the place and
completely renovated it. He turned it into more of a high-end, boutique
place with a sports theme and the place has become very popular, both
for locals and for boaters on the ICW looking to "stock up". His place
has won awards for the selection of booze available, the service and
it's unique atmosphere. Last year he was able to lease an adjoining
space and opened it exclusively for wine sales.


He must have had a good businessman for a dad.

Had to share this story
 

On 11/2/2014 12:26 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Sun, 02 Nov 2014 11:25:11 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 11/2/2014 11:03 AM, wrote:
On Sunday, November 2, 2014 10:35:46 AM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 11/2/2014 10:12 AM, wrote:
On Sunday, November 2, 2014 9:29:22 AM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:


For example, I've looked at the gun laws in South Carolina. All you
have to do is prove you are a resident and you can buy a gun. No
permit, no license, no safety course. Nothing. A permit is required if
you want to conceal carry however.

Well, not quite.

"Federal law requires federally licensed firearms dealers (but not private sellers) to initiate a background check on the purchaser prior to sale of a firearm. Federal law provides states with the option of serving as a state "point of contact" and conducting their own background checks using state, as well as federal, records and databases, or having the checks performed by the FBI using only the federal National Instant Criminal Background Check System ("NICS") database. (Note that state files are not always included in the federal database.)

South Carolina is not a point of contact state for firearm purchaser background checks.1 In South Carolina, firearms dealers must initiate the background check required by federal law by contacting the FBI directly.

Federal law does not require dealers to conduct a background check if a firearm purchaser presents a state permit to purchase or possess firearms that meets certain conditions.2 As a result, concealable weapons permit holders in South Carolina are exempt from the federal background check requirement.3 (Note, however, that people who have become prohibited from possessing firearms may continue to hold state permits to purchase or carry firearms if the state fails to remove these permits in a timely fashion.).

South Carolina law states that a person must be a resident of South Carolina to purchase a handgun from a South Carolina dealer, and that the possession of a valid South Carolina driver's license or Department of Motor Vehicles identification card constitutes proof of residency.4 A dealer may not sell a handgun without clear evidence as to the identity of the purchaser being furnished to the dealer.5

South Carolina does not require private sellers (sellers who are not licensed dealers) to initiate a background check when transferring a firearm."

So, that reads to me that I must be a resident, and will have a background check done on me unless I am a concealed permit holder.

Should I have to take a safety course to get a permit to buy a gun? I'm on the fence with that. One thing is for sure... requiring that would not have any effect on gun crimes. Criminals don't get permits or care about safety, right?



I asked my son about this a while back after he moved to SC. He seemed
to think all you needed was a driver's license to prove residency. He
had a concealed carry permit here in MA but he didn't bother getting one
in SC. He said you can have a handgun in your car in the glove
compartment or center console without a concealed carry permit.

From what you've said it sounds like a SC dealer does an "instant"
background check at the time of purchase like they do in Florida.

You and your son are correct, at least with my understanding of the state laws. This website has some really good info. It might be helpful especially since you are considering a move to our fine state!

http://www.charlestonlaw.net/handgun-carry-laws-south-carolina/

If you do move down here, I think you'll enjoy it. Great weather while still retaining the four seasons, and the Charleston area is nice and has some really outstanding restaurants. The natives are nice too!



My son and his family moved down there about 2 and a half years ago.
They have two girls, (one 16, one 10 or 11) and 3 year old twins ... a
boy and a girl. All of them love it down there.

Of all things, he decided to buy an existing liqueur store in the Mt.
Pleasant area where he lives. It was run down and not doing that well
so he applied and received the licenses required, bought the place and
completely renovated it. He turned it into more of a high-end, boutique
place with a sports theme and the place has become very popular, both
for locals and for boaters on the ICW looking to "stock up". His place
has won awards for the selection of booze available, the service and
it's unique atmosphere. Last year he was able to lease an adjoining
space and opened it exclusively for wine sales.


He must have had a good businessman for a dad.



Nah, he's is own man and a far better businessman than I could ever
dream to be. I was a technocrat. BTW, his store in SC just won "Best
in Mt. Pleasant" by some state grading organization.

People who know our family get a kick out of our two sons. The oldest
(the one in SC) got all the Italian genes from his mother. (not to
profile anyone ... have to be politically correct now-a-days)

He's a people person and loves being around lots of them. Has the gift
for gab as they say. Smart as a whip though.

The other one inherited my family's Scandinavian traits. He's blond,
blue-eyed and very reserved in a crowd. More of an introvert but very
sharp in technology and electronics. Has a fantastic sense of humor but
it's very dry and his joking comments are often missed by some until
they think about it a bit.

My daughter (the oldest) shares both of my wife and my personality
traits equally. Of the three she is the most practical, down to earth
and sensible.

Had to share this story
 

On Sun, 02 Nov 2014 13:11:08 -0500, wrote:

On Sun, 02 Nov 2014 11:39:23 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 11/2/2014 11:28 AM, wrote:

I would contend that most of the country has very little in common
with the Northern Atlantic states. That is why we had a limited
federal government in the first place. Laws that seem to make perfect
sense to people in Boston, New York or New Haven sound ridiculous in
Butte or Boise



So, you're saying that "PaPy" in Boise still hands a .22 rifle to 9 year
old "Jr" and tells him, "I'm a'grumblin. Go fetch us some viddles while
I stoke up the stove"?



It would certainly not be unreasonable for a 9 year old to get a .22
that would be used under supervision for a few years but by the time
they were 14 or so they would have a hunting license. That was when I
got my first one and I lived within a mile of the DC line, inside what
is the beltway now.
There was excellent quail hunting in the area south and west of where
exit #3 is now.

It was an anti aircraft base in the 40s and even into the early 50s,
then it was a huge open field. The whole area between exit 3 and 4 was
woods. So was the area south of Forest Heights all the way to the
river on both sides of the beltway ROW. That is thousands of acres.
Looking at google there still seems to be a lot of woods there north
of the ROW. I doubt you can hunt there now ;-)

Used to do a lot of quail hunting out Hwy 50 north of I-66. In the
early 70's that was all farm land. Got a lot of birds out there.

Had to share this story
 

On 11/2/2014 1:11 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 02 Nov 2014 11:39:23 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 11/2/2014 11:28 AM, wrote:

I would contend that most of the country has very little in common
with the Northern Atlantic states. That is why we had a limited
federal government in the first place. Laws that seem to make perfect
sense to people in Boston, New York or New Haven sound ridiculous in
Butte or Boise



So, you're saying that "PaPy" in Boise still hands a .22 rifle to 9 year
old "Jr" and tells him, "I'm a'grumblin. Go fetch us some viddles while
I stoke up the stove"?



It would certainly not be unreasonable for a 9 year old to get a .22
that would be used under supervision for a few years but by the time
they were 14 or so they would have a hunting license. That was when I
got my first one and I lived within a mile of the DC line, inside what
is the beltway now.
There was excellent quail hunting in the area south and west of where
exit #3 is now.

It was an anti aircraft base in the 40s and even into the early 50s,
then it was a huge open field. The whole area between exit 3 and 4 was
woods. So was the area south of Forest Heights all the way to the
river on both sides of the beltway ROW. That is thousands of acres.
Looking at google there still seems to be a lot of woods there north
of the ROW. I doubt you can hunt there now ;-)



I shot a bird with a Daisey BB gun when I was about 8 years old and
immediately felt like ****. Never got into hunting but I don't begrudge
those who do.

I am surrounded by animal lovers. I was teasing my daughter one day,
telling her I was going to go deer hunting when the season opened up
here. She was all over me.

So I asked her where she thought meat like beef, etc., comes from.

"The supermarket", she said.

Had to share this story
 

On Sun, 02 Nov 2014 13:20:07 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 11/2/2014 1:11 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 02 Nov 2014 11:39:23 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 11/2/2014 11:28 AM, wrote:

I would contend that most of the country has very little in common
with the Northern Atlantic states. That is why we had a limited
federal government in the first place. Laws that seem to make perfect
sense to people in Boston, New York or New Haven sound ridiculous in
Butte or Boise



So, you're saying that "PaPy" in Boise still hands a .22 rifle to 9 year
old "Jr" and tells him, "I'm a'grumblin. Go fetch us some viddles while
I stoke up the stove"?



It would certainly not be unreasonable for a 9 year old to get a .22
that would be used under supervision for a few years but by the time
they were 14 or so they would have a hunting license. That was when I
got my first one and I lived within a mile of the DC line, inside what
is the beltway now.
There was excellent quail hunting in the area south and west of where
exit #3 is now.

It was an anti aircraft base in the 40s and even into the early 50s,
then it was a huge open field. The whole area between exit 3 and 4 was
woods. So was the area south of Forest Heights all the way to the
river on both sides of the beltway ROW. That is thousands of acres.
Looking at google there still seems to be a lot of woods there north
of the ROW. I doubt you can hunt there now ;-)



I shot a bird with a Daisey BB gun when I was about 8 years old and
immediately felt like ****. Never got into hunting but I don't begrudge
those who do.

I am surrounded by animal lovers. I was teasing my daughter one day,
telling her I was going to go deer hunting when the season opened up
here. She was all over me.

So I asked her where she thought meat like beef, etc., comes from.

"The supermarket", she said.


Eating the bird may have given you a different perspective. Fried
quail are really good. Not much to it past the breast, but the legs
are worth knawing. It takes quite a few to make a decent meal.

Had to share this story
 

On Sun, 02 Nov 2014 09:13:07 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

BTW ... your Nor'ester is presently dumping heavy snow up here. :-(

===

How's the wind? Some places got a lot and sustained quite a bit of
tree damage if the leaves had not yet fallen.

Did you ever get the GFS forecast model working? I find it nice to
not be dependent on the mass media forecasts.

Had to share this story
 

On Sun, 02 Nov 2014 09:29:20 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 11/2/2014 9:11 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Sun, 02 Nov 2014 08:07:46 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 11/2/2014 8:00 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Sat, 1 Nov 2014 20:31:48 -0500, Boating All Out
wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Sat, 1 Nov 2014 12:15:27 -0500, Boating All Out
wrote:

I never said that. I said the opposite. Most gun crimes are done with
legally purchased guns. Stolen guns are a very small percentage.
You've mistaken me for Basskisser.

OK perhaps but what are you calling "gun crimes". Are you talking
about acquaintance killings or are you talking about drug killings,
robberies gone bad and gang violence?


Gun crimes by legal gun owners.



I would sure like to see some proof that most gun crimes are committed
by legal gun owners.


Define "legal" gun owners.



What he said ...'most gun crimes are done with legally purchased
guns'...and then...'gun crimes by legal gun owners'.

I'm thinking that if I wanted to commit a crime with a gun, I wouldn't
want to use one that's traceable back to me. If I had to use one that
was traceable to me, then it would be somewhere in the Potomac when I
was finished with it.

The Chicago Tribune reports 440 murders in Chicago in 2013. You reckon
most of those were committed by 'legal gun owners'? And then throw in
Flint, New Orleans, Detroit, and Jackson. Most murders committed by
legal gun owners?



I find it hard to believe most crimes involving guns are committed by
legal gun owners but then again, I don't know what "legal" means in the
areas you mentioned.

For example, I've looked at the gun laws in South Carolina. All you
have to do is prove you are a resident and you can buy a gun. No
permit, no license, no safety course. Nothing. A permit is required if
you want to conceal carry however.


===

I don't think it's legal for a convicted felon to own a gun anywhere,
and I suspect (but don't know) that most gun crimes are committed by
those with prior convictions.

Had to share this story
 

On Sun, 02 Nov 2014 15:18:16 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Sun, 02 Nov 2014 09:29:20 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 11/2/2014 9:11 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Sun, 02 Nov 2014 08:07:46 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 11/2/2014 8:00 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Sat, 1 Nov 2014 20:31:48 -0500, Boating All Out
wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Sat, 1 Nov 2014 12:15:27 -0500, Boating All Out
wrote:

I never said that. I said the opposite. Most gun crimes are done with
legally purchased guns. Stolen guns are a very small percentage.
You've mistaken me for Basskisser.

OK perhaps but what are you calling "gun crimes". Are you talking
about acquaintance killings or are you talking about drug killings,
robberies gone bad and gang violence?


Gun crimes by legal gun owners.



I would sure like to see some proof that most gun crimes are committed
by legal gun owners.


Define "legal" gun owners.



What he said ...'most gun crimes are done with legally purchased
guns'...and then...'gun crimes by legal gun owners'.

I'm thinking that if I wanted to commit a crime with a gun, I wouldn't
want to use one that's traceable back to me. If I had to use one that
was traceable to me, then it would be somewhere in the Potomac when I
was finished with it.

The Chicago Tribune reports 440 murders in Chicago in 2013. You reckon
most of those were committed by 'legal gun owners'? And then throw in
Flint, New Orleans, Detroit, and Jackson. Most murders committed by
legal gun owners?



I find it hard to believe most crimes involving guns are committed by
legal gun owners but then again, I don't know what "legal" means in the
areas you mentioned.

For example, I've looked at the gun laws in South Carolina. All you
have to do is prove you are a resident and you can buy a gun. No
permit, no license, no safety course. Nothing. A permit is required if
you want to conceal carry however.


===

I don't think it's legal for a convicted felon to own a gun anywhere,
and I suspect (but don't know) that most gun crimes are committed by
those with prior convictions.

Well, I'd find it hard to believe that Boating All Out was actually
*wrong* about something.

Had to share this story
 

On 11/2/2014 3:13 PM, Wayne.B wrote:

On Sun, 02 Nov 2014 09:13:07 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

BTW ... your Nor'ester is presently dumping heavy snow up here. :-(

===

How's the wind? Some places got a lot and sustained quite a bit of
tree damage if the leaves had not yet fallen.

Did you ever get the GFS forecast model working? I find it nice to
not be dependent on the mass media forecasts.



Very strong winds earlier today but everything has calmed down now. I
was sorta hoping it would stay around for the Patriots/Denver game in
Foxboro but now it just looks drizzly and cold.

Haven't had any luck yet with the GFS but I haven't given up. I need to
go back and check to make sure I downloaded the correct version for this
computer. I remember seeing something about a specific version for Vista.

Had to share this story
 

On Sun, 02 Nov 2014 15:27:50 -0500, Poco Loco
wrote:

On Sun, 02 Nov 2014 15:18:16 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Sun, 02 Nov 2014 09:29:20 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 11/2/2014 9:11 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Sun, 02 Nov 2014 08:07:46 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 11/2/2014 8:00 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Sat, 1 Nov 2014 20:31:48 -0500, Boating All Out
wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Sat, 1 Nov 2014 12:15:27 -0500, Boating All Out
wrote:

I never said that. I said the opposite. Most gun crimes are done with
legally purchased guns. Stolen guns are a very small percentage.
You've mistaken me for Basskisser.

OK perhaps but what are you calling "gun crimes". Are you talking
about acquaintance killings or are you talking about drug killings,
robberies gone bad and gang violence?


Gun crimes by legal gun owners.



I would sure like to see some proof that most gun crimes are committed
by legal gun owners.


Define "legal" gun owners.



What he said ...'most gun crimes are done with legally purchased
guns'...and then...'gun crimes by legal gun owners'.

I'm thinking that if I wanted to commit a crime with a gun, I wouldn't
want to use one that's traceable back to me. If I had to use one that
was traceable to me, then it would be somewhere in the Potomac when I
was finished with it.

The Chicago Tribune reports 440 murders in Chicago in 2013. You reckon
most of those were committed by 'legal gun owners'? And then throw in
Flint, New Orleans, Detroit, and Jackson. Most murders committed by
legal gun owners?



I find it hard to believe most crimes involving guns are committed by
legal gun owners but then again, I don't know what "legal" means in the
areas you mentioned.

For example, I've looked at the gun laws in South Carolina. All you
have to do is prove you are a resident and you can buy a gun. No
permit, no license, no safety course. Nothing. A permit is required if
you want to conceal carry however.


===

I don't think it's legal for a convicted felon to own a gun anywhere,
and I suspect (but don't know) that most gun crimes are committed by
those with prior convictions.

Well, I'd find it hard to believe that Boating All Out was actually
*wrong* about something.

===

Do we know what part of the country BAO is from?