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On 11/1/2014 1:18 AM, wrote:


Felons are unlikely to sign any kind of transfer form, that is the
express train to the slammer, so I am not sure that is even relevant.


Greg, you are therefore making the case *for* gun registration and the
tracking of sales/transfers.

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On 11/1/2014 1:44 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 21:19:40 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 10/31/2014 8:49 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 13:02:04 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

Raises another question. Ever wonder why a new gun comes with a spent
shell in the box or case?

To test functionality. And/Or, to build a database of gun "fingerprints", i.e. bullet striations. That info, along with registration, can lead back to the owner.

I have never bought a gun with a case in the box.
I do question the validity of all of these ballistic fingerprint
things if the gun has been used a lot. I agree that if they have the
gun and a recently fired bullet or case, they usually can match them
up but if this gun has several thousand rounds of barrel erosion and
the slings and arrows of dirty ammo going through it, matching up
tool marks from the day it was made is going to be far from exact.

I bet the difference between S/N xxxxx1 and xxxxx2 brand new is less
than xxxx1 to xxxx1 after years of hard use. If the same tool cut the
rifling, won't the tool marks be very close to the same?




Interesting. When was the last time you bought a new gun?

Every gun I have purchased in the past 3-4 years has an envelope with a
spent round casing that was fired from the gun at the factory.

It's also mandatory that new guns come with some type of lock.

Is this a MA thing or is it true everywhere?


Certainly does not seem to be true in Florida. Maybe the dealers just
remove it if the manufacturer puts them in there.
The 9mm I bought recently had a trigger lock but it is a joke. A 10
year old with a fingernail file could pop it off.



I'd like to see a trigger lock like that. The ones I have (gun
manufacturer supplied) are pretty well made and substantial.
I took the Ruger 10/22 to the range once and forgot the key.
No way could I or anyone else remove the trigger lock unless we
destroyed something (like the rifle).

The chamber locks supplied by the gun manufacturers are also pretty high
quality. Sure, maybe a heavy bolt cutter or half an hour with a hack
saw would work but again, the purpose of a trigger or chamber lock is to
help prevent accidental discharge of the firearm by the owner or an
inquisitive visitor when stored in your home. They are not designed to
prevent theft.

The locks are *required* ... again by law. Even if you purchase a used
firearm from a licensed dealer up here, the dealer is required to
furnish a lock.

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On 11/1/2014 12:04 AM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Thu, 30 Oct 2014 19:05:28 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

Gun control and it's related issues are a big deal in today's society.
We shouldn't bury our heads in the sand and ignore it while clinging to
the 2A and interpretations of what "infringement" means. Eventually it
may be interpreted in a way that gun nuts won't like. Better to
reason, negotiate and find ways to keep 2A rights while satisfying those
who would like to revoke it entirely. This is the 21st century.

===

History has repeatedly shown that a policy of appeasement is the wrong
strategy against an intractable foe. The NRA is frequently criticzed
for their hard ball, "my way or the highway," no compromise tactics
but I think they appreciate that every inch of ground lost will be
twice as difficult to regain. A lot of the political hysteria is a
result of the mostly liberal media flogging every incident for all
it's worth. Meanwhile, the real issue statistically, black-on-black
murder, seems to get very little media attention unless an NFL
football player is involved.



I agree with that. Idealism is nice but reality prevails, something
many far left liberals can't get though their heads.

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On 11/1/2014 1:50 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 21:53:52 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:



That's why the show is interesting. It goes into that sort of stuff.
It's not a liberal political thing like the rest of the MSNBC programing.


I have no interest in watching a prison reality show. I spent plenty
of time in the prisons when I was inspecting and a little bit of that
kind of reality goes a long way.



That's why the show is worth seeing once in a while for those of us who
have never seen the inside of a jail or prison. Most of the inmates
have a totally different outlook on society and life in general and it's
a way of thinking that most of us cannot fathom.

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On 11/1/2014 1:28 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 21:15:30 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 10/31/2014 8:40 PM, wrote:

They do sell a tag cover that you can read the tag through but it
seriously reduces the laser reflection and it is hard to see from an
angle, frustrating cameras.



Heh. You don't have annual vehicle inspections in Florida like we do.
People have tried the plastic over the front plate trick by getting
fancy plate holders. Won't pass inspection if you have one installed.

That was another bureaucratic boondoggle that we got rid of. In fact
it was a democratic governor who did it. (Bob Graham)



Years ago Massachusetts required all of the privately owned gas stations
and repair shops that were licensed by the state to do vehicle
inspections to install dynamometers (at considerable expense) for under
load emission testing. Your car or truck would be driven onto the
rollers and a sensor was placed in the exhaust. Emission levels at idle
and at high speed were taken by a computer.

Then, about 3 or 4 years ago active emission tests were eliminated. All
the stations had to dig out the dynamometers or simply no longer use them.

All they do now is plug the computer into the vehicle's OBD-II connector
and check for faults. If your car is a 1996 or older, it is exempted
from this test completely and all they do is check the horn, lights,
etc., like they did 35 years ago. Some stations will jack up the front
end and check for bad ball joints or tie rods.

When we had the winter house in Jupiter FL, I bought a used Ford Ranger
down there and registered it in Florida. I was very surprised to find
out there was no vehicle safety or emission testing required.
Up here you have to get a car, new or used, inspected within 7 days of
purchase.

The only problem I ran into in Florida was getting insurance. Because
the Ranger had Florida tags I couldn't put it on my MA insurance policy.
Then, because I held a MA driver's license, I was told I couldn't get
insurance. Finally Allstate gave me a policy but only after they
received a fax from my MA insurance company stating that I had held a
policy for some number of years and was in good standing.

The other thing unique to MA is that it is the only state in the Union
that does not issue temporary paper tags (or plates).

When we sold the place in Florida my last trip back involved hauling two
Harley motorcycles back to MA. I bought an enclosed trailer and got a
temporary FL tag for it that was good for 30 days. Used it to drive
home, then tossed the paper tag away.

Had to share this story
 

On 11/1/2014 2:00 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 22:25:06 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:



I did a lot of driving a few years ago back and forth from Florida. Made
about 11 or 12 trips, about 1500 miles each way over a period of three
years. Many of the trips included hauling a trailer or a boat.

It took 2 and a half days, regardless of how fast I drove.

Did one trip non-stop other than a 20 minute nap and fuel stops. I'll
never do that again.

I used to go to Florida from Southern Md twice a year for years. It is
a shorter ride (950 or so) to St Pete and my fastest trip was a tad
over 14 hours door to door. Usually it was more like 17 or 18 with a
short nap in a truck stop or a rest station along the way (Brunswick
Georgia generally) By then the sun was up and I did the Florida leg.

I had a radar detector but the real aid was the childrens band radio
and choosing your travel time carefully. I did most of the driving at
night but I was a midnight to 8 guy anyway.



The worst part of driving to Florida (or anywhere south of here) is
getting through the southern part of CT, New York and New Jersey.
After that it's a pretty easy drive except for some parts of Maryland.

I used to leave MA at about 11 pm after sleeping in the afternoon or
evening. That would usually get me over the George Washington Bridge in
New York just before the major rush hour traffic.

Had to share this story
 

On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 21:19:40 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 10/31/2014 8:49 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 13:02:04 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

Raises another question. Ever wonder why a new gun comes with a spent
shell in the box or case?

To test functionality. And/Or, to build a database of gun "fingerprints", i.e. bullet striations. That info, along with registration, can lead back to the owner.

I have never bought a gun with a case in the box.
I do question the validity of all of these ballistic fingerprint
things if the gun has been used a lot. I agree that if they have the
gun and a recently fired bullet or case, they usually can match them
up but if this gun has several thousand rounds of barrel erosion and
the slings and arrows of dirty ammo going through it, matching up
tool marks from the day it was made is going to be far from exact.

I bet the difference between S/N xxxxx1 and xxxxx2 brand new is less
than xxxx1 to xxxx1 after years of hard use. If the same tool cut the
rifling, won't the tool marks be very close to the same?




Interesting. When was the last time you bought a new gun?

Every gun I have purchased in the past 3-4 years has an envelope with a
spent round casing that was fired from the gun at the factory.

It's also mandatory that new guns come with some type of lock.

Is this a MA thing or is it true everywhere?


The S&W's I bought came with a shell casing in a sealed envelope. The
Sig Sauers came without a casing. The Kimber also came without a
casing, but it did have a sticker on the box saying, "NO SHELL CASING
FOR MARYLAND."

Had to share this story
 

On Sat, 01 Nov 2014 01:44:01 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 21:19:40 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 10/31/2014 8:49 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 13:02:04 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

Raises another question. Ever wonder why a new gun comes with a spent
shell in the box or case?

To test functionality. And/Or, to build a database of gun "fingerprints", i.e. bullet striations. That info, along with registration, can lead back to the owner.

I have never bought a gun with a case in the box.
I do question the validity of all of these ballistic fingerprint
things if the gun has been used a lot. I agree that if they have the
gun and a recently fired bullet or case, they usually can match them
up but if this gun has several thousand rounds of barrel erosion and
the slings and arrows of dirty ammo going through it, matching up
tool marks from the day it was made is going to be far from exact.

I bet the difference between S/N xxxxx1 and xxxxx2 brand new is less
than xxxx1 to xxxx1 after years of hard use. If the same tool cut the
rifling, won't the tool marks be very close to the same?




Interesting. When was the last time you bought a new gun?

Every gun I have purchased in the past 3-4 years has an envelope with a
spent round casing that was fired from the gun at the factory.

It's also mandatory that new guns come with some type of lock.

Is this a MA thing or is it true everywhere?


Certainly does not seem to be true in Florida. Maybe the dealers just
remove it if the manufacturer puts them in there.
The 9mm I bought recently had a trigger lock but it is a joke. A 10
year old with a fingernail file could pop it off.

The guns I've bought here all came with the same type lock:
http://www.info4guns.com/graphics/pi...cable_lock.jpg

Each has it's own key. Probably could be picked or the cable cut, but
would keep a kid from accidentally loading the gun and shooting
someone.

Had to share this story
 

On Sat, 01 Nov 2014 01:38:18 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 21:16:32 -0400, KC wrote:

On 10/31/2014 9:09 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 19:30:15 -0400, KC wrote:


I don't get it.. to me a radar decector means you don't really give a
**** about me or my family, you are gonna' do what ever you want, kind
of like that nurse in Maine who could care less about the quarantine
cause she thinks she is just entitled to put others in danger. Selfish
people use radar detectors to go faster than their elected officials
think they should go to protect themselves and others... and probably
call the cops when somebody speeds by their house, after all, they are
selfish.... lol!

If you lived in Maryland when they were the speed trap state, it would
make more sense to you. 65 on the beltway was not endangering anyone.
Writing tickets for it was simply revenue.


Were they writing tickets for less than ten over?

Yes. 9 over was $20 and one point, 10 over was $40 and 2 points.
Five over generally got you a ticket.
When they did the Beltway at rush hour, usually everyone got a 9 over
ticket. They would shoot the first car in a "platoon" (pack), 20 cops
would jump out in the road and wave everyone over. They would write
like crazy until they were are cited, and do it again.
They usually had the ticket pretty much made out before they got there
and they just put in the time and the name, DL number etc. This was
production speed trapping at it's finest.

If you didn't stop, you got an "evading" ticket and you were in
serious trouble. You might even be arrested and have your car
impounded.

That was when a radar detector was handy. If you had enough warning,
you could drop out of the pack and pull over on the shoulder if
necessary. Usually just being obviously slower than everyone else was
enough but you had the real chance of being hit from behind.

At least one of those pack wolves would be just over the rise up
around the Hwy 4 exit. I haven't seen that since we returned from
Germany back in '91, but they were sure there in the mid-80's and
earlier.

Had to share this story
 

On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 21:10:27 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 10/31/2014 8:30 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 15:34:59 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 10/31/2014 3:24 PM, wrote:

How many crime guns have actually been traced to a gun show?
You do understand a licensed dealer still needs to record "private"
sales I suppose.



Sure. In many states he "records" it in his little black book that is
subject to audit ... maybe. Wasn't that the case in the kid who used
his mother's gun to shoot up some kids at a school? The ATF hadn't
checked his books for years.

That is because none of the guns he handled were ever investigated in
a crime. That should be a good thing.
When they did go looking for one, the system worked. Isn't all you are
looking for?

It also doesn't stop a private or gun show dealer sale of a firearm to a
person legally prohibited from owning one. That was proven by the TV
investigation where they sent a guy to gun shows and he was able to buy
anything he wanted with no background check performed.

There is nothing to stop a person from selling a gun to a person who
shouldn't have one. It is already illegal and making it "more" illegal
is meaningless. If 10 years and $100k fine is not a deterrent, what do
you think your new law would impose that would do the trick? Death?



Did you read the wording on the Federal Transfer Form that John posted a
link to?

I am still scratching my head trying to figure out what good it does.
It basically says that you can sell or transfer a firearm to a convicted
felon or nut case as long as you didn't know he was a convicted felon or
nut case.


The form I put a link to, 'Record of Firearms Transfer...', is not a
'Government Form' of any kind. It's more a courtesy form. I don't even
know who or what originated it.