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Had to share this story
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Had to share this story
On Sunday, November 2, 2014 10:35:46 AM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 11/2/2014 10:12 AM, wrote: On Sunday, November 2, 2014 9:29:22 AM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote: For example, I've looked at the gun laws in South Carolina. All you have to do is prove you are a resident and you can buy a gun. No permit, no license, no safety course. Nothing. A permit is required if you want to conceal carry however. Well, not quite. "Federal law requires federally licensed firearms dealers (but not private sellers) to initiate a background check on the purchaser prior to sale of a firearm. Federal law provides states with the option of serving as a state "point of contact" and conducting their own background checks using state, as well as federal, records and databases, or having the checks performed by the FBI using only the federal National Instant Criminal Background Check System ("NICS") database. (Note that state files are not always included in the federal database.) South Carolina is not a point of contact state for firearm purchaser background checks.1 In South Carolina, firearms dealers must initiate the background check required by federal law by contacting the FBI directly. Federal law does not require dealers to conduct a background check if a firearm purchaser presents a state permit to purchase or possess firearms that meets certain conditions.2 As a result, concealable weapons permit holders in South Carolina are exempt from the federal background check requirement.3 (Note, however, that people who have become prohibited from possessing firearms may continue to hold state permits to purchase or carry firearms if the state fails to remove these permits in a timely fashion.). South Carolina law states that a person must be a resident of South Carolina to purchase a handgun from a South Carolina dealer, and that the possession of a valid South Carolina driver's license or Department of Motor Vehicles identification card constitutes proof of residency.4 A dealer may not sell a handgun without clear evidence as to the identity of the purchaser being furnished to the dealer.5 South Carolina does not require private sellers (sellers who are not licensed dealers) to initiate a background check when transferring a firearm." So, that reads to me that I must be a resident, and will have a background check done on me unless I am a concealed permit holder. Should I have to take a safety course to get a permit to buy a gun? I'm on the fence with that. One thing is for sure... requiring that would not have any effect on gun crimes. Criminals don't get permits or care about safety, right? I asked my son about this a while back after he moved to SC. He seemed to think all you needed was a driver's license to prove residency. He had a concealed carry permit here in MA but he didn't bother getting one in SC. He said you can have a handgun in your car in the glove compartment or center console without a concealed carry permit. From what you've said it sounds like a SC dealer does an "instant" background check at the time of purchase like they do in Florida. You and your son are correct, at least with my understanding of the state laws. This website has some really good info. It might be helpful especially since you are considering a move to our fine state! http://www.charlestonlaw.net/handgun-carry-laws-south-carolina/ If you do move down here, I think you'll enjoy it. Great weather while still retaining the four seasons, and the Charleston area is nice and has some really outstanding restaurants. The natives are nice too! |
Had to share this story
On 11/2/2014 10:24 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 2 Nov 2014 10:02:30 -0500, BAR wrote: In article , says... On 11/2/2014 9:11 AM, Poco Loco wrote: On Sun, 02 Nov 2014 08:07:46 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 11/2/2014 8:00 AM, Poco Loco wrote: On Sat, 1 Nov 2014 20:31:48 -0500, Boating All Out wrote: In article , says... On Sat, 1 Nov 2014 12:15:27 -0500, Boating All Out wrote: I never said that. I said the opposite. Most gun crimes are done with legally purchased guns. Stolen guns are a very small percentage. You've mistaken me for Basskisser. OK perhaps but what are you calling "gun crimes". Are you talking about acquaintance killings or are you talking about drug killings, robberies gone bad and gang violence? Gun crimes by legal gun owners. I would sure like to see some proof that most gun crimes are committed by legal gun owners. Define "legal" gun owners. What he said ...'most gun crimes are done with legally purchased guns'...and then...'gun crimes by legal gun owners'. I'm thinking that if I wanted to commit a crime with a gun, I wouldn't want to use one that's traceable back to me. If I had to use one that was traceable to me, then it would be somewhere in the Potomac when I was finished with it. The Chicago Tribune reports 440 murders in Chicago in 2013. You reckon most of those were committed by 'legal gun owners'? And then throw in Flint, New Orleans, Detroit, and Jackson. Most murders committed by legal gun owners? I find it hard to believe most crimes involving guns are committed by legal gun owners but then again, I don't know what "legal" means in the areas you mentioned. legal adj., adv. according to law, not in violation of law or anything related to the law. For example, I've looked at the gun laws in South Carolina. All you have to do is prove you are a resident and you can buy a gun. No permit, no license, no safety course. Nothing. A permit is required if you want to conceal carry however. Do you believe that people should have to ask and receive permission from the government to exercise their rights before they exercise their rights? BAO is certainly a fascist (in the classical sense) He sees no real limit to government power, even implying he thinks you should need to be finger printed and submit to a background check before you can vote. I doubt Richard would agree with that but then he is simply cherry picking the rights we are entitled to without infringement. I don't see a background check as being an infringement on your right to buy or own a firearm. The concept of a nationwide computerized data base was unfathomable when the Bill of Rights was written. By virtue of getting a permit it means you had a background check performed. What I'd really like to see is some standardization and uniformity of the gun laws throughout the country. In some states, like mine, the determination of granting a permit and what type comes down to the police chief in the town or city you live in. Massachusetts used to be a "may issue" state for all types of permits with the determination left up to the local police department chief. That was changed to "shall issue" for permits that do not allow concealed carry and "may issue" for concealed carry. There was a time when it was difficult to get any type of gun permit because it was all up to the local (town) government and police department. There are still a couple of towns that are trying to stay "gun free zones". |
Had to share this story
On 11/2/2014 11:03 AM, wrote:
On Sunday, November 2, 2014 10:35:46 AM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 11/2/2014 10:12 AM, wrote: On Sunday, November 2, 2014 9:29:22 AM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote: For example, I've looked at the gun laws in South Carolina. All you have to do is prove you are a resident and you can buy a gun. No permit, no license, no safety course. Nothing. A permit is required if you want to conceal carry however. Well, not quite. "Federal law requires federally licensed firearms dealers (but not private sellers) to initiate a background check on the purchaser prior to sale of a firearm. Federal law provides states with the option of serving as a state "point of contact" and conducting their own background checks using state, as well as federal, records and databases, or having the checks performed by the FBI using only the federal National Instant Criminal Background Check System ("NICS") database. (Note that state files are not always included in the federal database.) South Carolina is not a point of contact state for firearm purchaser background checks.1 In South Carolina, firearms dealers must initiate the background check required by federal law by contacting the FBI directly. Federal law does not require dealers to conduct a background check if a firearm purchaser presents a state permit to purchase or possess firearms that meets certain conditions.2 As a result, concealable weapons permit holders in South Carolina are exempt from the federal background check requirement.3 (Note, however, that people who have become prohibited from possessing firearms may continue to hold state permits to purchase or carry firearms if the state fails to remove these permits in a timely fashion.). South Carolina law states that a person must be a resident of South Carolina to purchase a handgun from a South Carolina dealer, and that the possession of a valid South Carolina driver's license or Department of Motor Vehicles identification card constitutes proof of residency.4 A dealer may not sell a handgun without clear evidence as to the identity of the purchaser being furnished to the dealer.5 South Carolina does not require private sellers (sellers who are not licensed dealers) to initiate a background check when transferring a firearm." So, that reads to me that I must be a resident, and will have a background check done on me unless I am a concealed permit holder. Should I have to take a safety course to get a permit to buy a gun? I'm on the fence with that. One thing is for sure... requiring that would not have any effect on gun crimes. Criminals don't get permits or care about safety, right? I asked my son about this a while back after he moved to SC. He seemed to think all you needed was a driver's license to prove residency. He had a concealed carry permit here in MA but he didn't bother getting one in SC. He said you can have a handgun in your car in the glove compartment or center console without a concealed carry permit. From what you've said it sounds like a SC dealer does an "instant" background check at the time of purchase like they do in Florida. You and your son are correct, at least with my understanding of the state laws. This website has some really good info. It might be helpful especially since you are considering a move to our fine state! http://www.charlestonlaw.net/handgun-carry-laws-south-carolina/ If you do move down here, I think you'll enjoy it. Great weather while still retaining the four seasons, and the Charleston area is nice and has some really outstanding restaurants. The natives are nice too! My son and his family moved down there about 2 and a half years ago. They have two girls, (one 16, one 10 or 11) and 3 year old twins ... a boy and a girl. All of them love it down there. Of all things, he decided to buy an existing liqueur store in the Mt. Pleasant area where he lives. It was run down and not doing that well so he applied and received the licenses required, bought the place and completely renovated it. He turned it into more of a high-end, boutique place with a sports theme and the place has become very popular, both for locals and for boaters on the ICW looking to "stock up". His place has won awards for the selection of booze available, the service and it's unique atmosphere. Last year he was able to lease an adjoining space and opened it exclusively for wine sales. |
Had to share this story
On 11/2/2014 11:28 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 02 Nov 2014 11:06:06 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 11/2/2014 10:24 AM, wrote: On Sun, 2 Nov 2014 10:02:30 -0500, BAR wrote: In article , says... On 11/2/2014 9:11 AM, Poco Loco wrote: On Sun, 02 Nov 2014 08:07:46 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 11/2/2014 8:00 AM, Poco Loco wrote: On Sat, 1 Nov 2014 20:31:48 -0500, Boating All Out wrote: In article , says... On Sat, 1 Nov 2014 12:15:27 -0500, Boating All Out wrote: I never said that. I said the opposite. Most gun crimes are done with legally purchased guns. Stolen guns are a very small percentage. You've mistaken me for Basskisser. OK perhaps but what are you calling "gun crimes". Are you talking about acquaintance killings or are you talking about drug killings, robberies gone bad and gang violence? Gun crimes by legal gun owners. I would sure like to see some proof that most gun crimes are committed by legal gun owners. Define "legal" gun owners. What he said ...'most gun crimes are done with legally purchased guns'...and then...'gun crimes by legal gun owners'. I'm thinking that if I wanted to commit a crime with a gun, I wouldn't want to use one that's traceable back to me. If I had to use one that was traceable to me, then it would be somewhere in the Potomac when I was finished with it. The Chicago Tribune reports 440 murders in Chicago in 2013. You reckon most of those were committed by 'legal gun owners'? And then throw in Flint, New Orleans, Detroit, and Jackson. Most murders committed by legal gun owners? I find it hard to believe most crimes involving guns are committed by legal gun owners but then again, I don't know what "legal" means in the areas you mentioned. legal adj., adv. according to law, not in violation of law or anything related to the law. For example, I've looked at the gun laws in South Carolina. All you have to do is prove you are a resident and you can buy a gun. No permit, no license, no safety course. Nothing. A permit is required if you want to conceal carry however. Do you believe that people should have to ask and receive permission from the government to exercise their rights before they exercise their rights? BAO is certainly a fascist (in the classical sense) He sees no real limit to government power, even implying he thinks you should need to be finger printed and submit to a background check before you can vote. I doubt Richard would agree with that but then he is simply cherry picking the rights we are entitled to without infringement. I don't see a background check as being an infringement on your right to buy or own a firearm. The concept of a nationwide computerized data base was unfathomable when the Bill of Rights was written. By virtue of getting a permit it means you had a background check performed. What I'd really like to see is some standardization and uniformity of the gun laws throughout the country. In some states, like mine, the determination of granting a permit and what type comes down to the police chief in the town or city you live in. Massachusetts used to be a "may issue" state for all types of permits with the determination left up to the local police department chief. That was changed to "shall issue" for permits that do not allow concealed carry and "may issue" for concealed carry. There was a time when it was difficult to get any type of gun permit because it was all up to the local (town) government and police department. There are still a couple of towns that are trying to stay "gun free zones". I would contend that most of the country has very little in common with the Northern Atlantic states. That is why we had a limited federal government in the first place. Laws that seem to make perfect sense to people in Boston, New York or New Haven sound ridiculous in Butte or Boise So, you're saying that "PaPy" in Boise still hands a .22 rifle to 9 year old "Jr" and tells him, "I'm a'grumblin. Go fetch us some viddles while I stoke up the stove"? |
Had to share this story
On 11/2/2014 11:07 AM, BAR wrote:
In article , says... On 11/2/2014 10:02 AM, BAR wrote: In article , says... On 11/2/2014 9:11 AM, Poco Loco wrote: On Sun, 02 Nov 2014 08:07:46 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 11/2/2014 8:00 AM, Poco Loco wrote: On Sat, 1 Nov 2014 20:31:48 -0500, Boating All Out wrote: In article , says... On Sat, 1 Nov 2014 12:15:27 -0500, Boating All Out wrote: I never said that. I said the opposite. Most gun crimes are done with legally purchased guns. Stolen guns are a very small percentage. You've mistaken me for Basskisser. OK perhaps but what are you calling "gun crimes". Are you talking about acquaintance killings or are you talking about drug killings, robberies gone bad and gang violence? Gun crimes by legal gun owners. I would sure like to see some proof that most gun crimes are committed by legal gun owners. Define "legal" gun owners. What he said ...'most gun crimes are done with legally purchased guns'...and then...'gun crimes by legal gun owners'. I'm thinking that if I wanted to commit a crime with a gun, I wouldn't want to use one that's traceable back to me. If I had to use one that was traceable to me, then it would be somewhere in the Potomac when I was finished with it. The Chicago Tribune reports 440 murders in Chicago in 2013. You reckon most of those were committed by 'legal gun owners'? And then throw in Flint, New Orleans, Detroit, and Jackson. Most murders committed by legal gun owners? I find it hard to believe most crimes involving guns are committed by legal gun owners but then again, I don't know what "legal" means in the areas you mentioned. legal adj., adv. according to law, not in violation of law or anything related to the law. For example, I've looked at the gun laws in South Carolina. All you have to do is prove you are a resident and you can buy a gun. No permit, no license, no safety course. Nothing. A permit is required if you want to conceal carry however. Do you believe that people should have to ask and receive permission from the government to exercise their rights before they exercise their rights? No I don't, but in that case how do you justify the federal laws that prohibits those with a felony conviction from legally owning a firearm or not being able to vote if you are in prison, on parole or on probation? Why shouldn't a person who has served their time (prison, parole or probation) for a conviction have his rights restored? If evidence of previous bad acts can't be used to convict someone why should the same apply with respect to rights. I support the idea of having background checks for gun ownership. Do you support the idea of having background checks for casting votes? Why do you treat some rights differently than other rights? Voting and owning a gun are two different things, don'cha think? Come to think of it, I don't know which is more dangerous. -) BTW .. While in prison a convict cannot vote. While he/she is is on parole or probation ... they cannot vote. Once a sentence is served or a parole/probation period is completed, their right to vote is restored. Federal law. |
Had to share this story
On Sun, 02 Nov 2014 10:20:43 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote: On 11/2/2014 10:00 AM, wrote: On Sunday, November 2, 2014 9:05:40 AM UTC-5, Wayne. B wrote: On Sun, 02 Nov 2014 08:07:46 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 11/2/2014 8:00 AM, Poco Loco wrote: On Sat, 1 Nov 2014 20:31:48 -0500, Boating All Out wrote: In article , says... On Sat, 1 Nov 2014 12:15:27 -0500, Boating All Out wrote: I never said that. I said the opposite. Most gun crimes are done with legally purchased guns. Stolen guns are a very small percentage. You've mistaken me for Basskisser. OK perhaps but what are you calling "gun crimes". Are you talking about acquaintance killings or are you talking about drug killings, robberies gone bad and gang violence? Gun crimes by legal gun owners. I would sure like to see some proof that most gun crimes are committed by legal gun owners. Define "legal" gun owners. === I think that's relatively easy: Any person who is legally entitled to own a gun, and using a gun that they legally own (not stolen or borrowed without permission). BOA is playing with words. Virtually all guns are initially legally purchased. However, I've seen no evidence that most gun crimes are committed by legal gun owners with their legally purchased guns. That's BS. Maybe he can post a cite that supports his claim. I've looked. Can't find any. That's what I asked for! |
Had to share this story
On Sun, 02 Nov 2014 11:46:29 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote: On 11/2/2014 11:07 AM, BAR wrote: In article , says... On 11/2/2014 10:02 AM, BAR wrote: In article , says... On 11/2/2014 9:11 AM, Poco Loco wrote: On Sun, 02 Nov 2014 08:07:46 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 11/2/2014 8:00 AM, Poco Loco wrote: On Sat, 1 Nov 2014 20:31:48 -0500, Boating All Out wrote: In article , says... On Sat, 1 Nov 2014 12:15:27 -0500, Boating All Out wrote: I never said that. I said the opposite. Most gun crimes are done with legally purchased guns. Stolen guns are a very small percentage. You've mistaken me for Basskisser. OK perhaps but what are you calling "gun crimes". Are you talking about acquaintance killings or are you talking about drug killings, robberies gone bad and gang violence? Gun crimes by legal gun owners. I would sure like to see some proof that most gun crimes are committed by legal gun owners. Define "legal" gun owners. What he said ...'most gun crimes are done with legally purchased guns'...and then...'gun crimes by legal gun owners'. I'm thinking that if I wanted to commit a crime with a gun, I wouldn't want to use one that's traceable back to me. If I had to use one that was traceable to me, then it would be somewhere in the Potomac when I was finished with it. The Chicago Tribune reports 440 murders in Chicago in 2013. You reckon most of those were committed by 'legal gun owners'? And then throw in Flint, New Orleans, Detroit, and Jackson. Most murders committed by legal gun owners? I find it hard to believe most crimes involving guns are committed by legal gun owners but then again, I don't know what "legal" means in the areas you mentioned. legal adj., adv. according to law, not in violation of law or anything related to the law. For example, I've looked at the gun laws in South Carolina. All you have to do is prove you are a resident and you can buy a gun. No permit, no license, no safety course. Nothing. A permit is required if you want to conceal carry however. Do you believe that people should have to ask and receive permission from the government to exercise their rights before they exercise their rights? No I don't, but in that case how do you justify the federal laws that prohibits those with a felony conviction from legally owning a firearm or not being able to vote if you are in prison, on parole or on probation? Why shouldn't a person who has served their time (prison, parole or probation) for a conviction have his rights restored? If evidence of previous bad acts can't be used to convict someone why should the same apply with respect to rights. I support the idea of having background checks for gun ownership. Do you support the idea of having background checks for casting votes? Why do you treat some rights differently than other rights? Voting and owning a gun are two different things, don'cha think? Come to think of it, I don't know which is more dangerous. -) BTW .. While in prison a convict cannot vote. While he/she is is on parole or probation ... they cannot vote. Once a sentence is served or a parole/probation period is completed, their right to vote is restored. Federal law. Are you talking about legal or illegal convicts? :) |
Had to share this story
On Sun, 02 Nov 2014 11:39:23 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote: On 11/2/2014 11:28 AM, wrote: On Sun, 02 Nov 2014 11:06:06 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 11/2/2014 10:24 AM, wrote: On Sun, 2 Nov 2014 10:02:30 -0500, BAR wrote: In article , says... On 11/2/2014 9:11 AM, Poco Loco wrote: On Sun, 02 Nov 2014 08:07:46 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 11/2/2014 8:00 AM, Poco Loco wrote: On Sat, 1 Nov 2014 20:31:48 -0500, Boating All Out wrote: In article , says... On Sat, 1 Nov 2014 12:15:27 -0500, Boating All Out wrote: I never said that. I said the opposite. Most gun crimes are done with legally purchased guns. Stolen guns are a very small percentage. You've mistaken me for Basskisser. OK perhaps but what are you calling "gun crimes". Are you talking about acquaintance killings or are you talking about drug killings, robberies gone bad and gang violence? Gun crimes by legal gun owners. I would sure like to see some proof that most gun crimes are committed by legal gun owners. Define "legal" gun owners. What he said ...'most gun crimes are done with legally purchased guns'...and then...'gun crimes by legal gun owners'. I'm thinking that if I wanted to commit a crime with a gun, I wouldn't want to use one that's traceable back to me. If I had to use one that was traceable to me, then it would be somewhere in the Potomac when I was finished with it. The Chicago Tribune reports 440 murders in Chicago in 2013. You reckon most of those were committed by 'legal gun owners'? And then throw in Flint, New Orleans, Detroit, and Jackson. Most murders committed by legal gun owners? I find it hard to believe most crimes involving guns are committed by legal gun owners but then again, I don't know what "legal" means in the areas you mentioned. legal adj., adv. according to law, not in violation of law or anything related to the law. For example, I've looked at the gun laws in South Carolina. All you have to do is prove you are a resident and you can buy a gun. No permit, no license, no safety course. Nothing. A permit is required if you want to conceal carry however. Do you believe that people should have to ask and receive permission from the government to exercise their rights before they exercise their rights? BAO is certainly a fascist (in the classical sense) He sees no real limit to government power, even implying he thinks you should need to be finger printed and submit to a background check before you can vote. I doubt Richard would agree with that but then he is simply cherry picking the rights we are entitled to without infringement. I don't see a background check as being an infringement on your right to buy or own a firearm. The concept of a nationwide computerized data base was unfathomable when the Bill of Rights was written. By virtue of getting a permit it means you had a background check performed. What I'd really like to see is some standardization and uniformity of the gun laws throughout the country. In some states, like mine, the determination of granting a permit and what type comes down to the police chief in the town or city you live in. Massachusetts used to be a "may issue" state for all types of permits with the determination left up to the local police department chief. That was changed to "shall issue" for permits that do not allow concealed carry and "may issue" for concealed carry. There was a time when it was difficult to get any type of gun permit because it was all up to the local (town) government and police department. There are still a couple of towns that are trying to stay "gun free zones". I would contend that most of the country has very little in common with the Northern Atlantic states. That is why we had a limited federal government in the first place. Laws that seem to make perfect sense to people in Boston, New York or New Haven sound ridiculous in Butte or Boise So, you're saying that "PaPy" in Boise still hands a .22 rifle to 9 year old "Jr" and tells him, "I'm a'grumblin. Go fetch us some viddles while I stoke up the stove"? I was a tad older, 12, when I'd bring rabbits and squirrels home a couple times a week for dinner. Believe it, it's done. |
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