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In article ,
says... On Sat, 01 Nov 2014 06:38:07 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 11/1/2014 1:18 AM, wrote: Felons are unlikely to sign any kind of transfer form, that is the express train to the slammer, so I am not sure that is even relevant. Greg, you are therefore making the case *for* gun registration and the tracking of sales/transfers. Only if you believe the only people who sell guns would be willing to make the buyer fill out the form. BAO contended a while ago that most of the crime guns were stolen. It is clear that they would never go through legal channels again. They still move around. I never said that. I said the opposite. Most gun crimes are done with legally purchased guns. Stolen guns are a very small percentage. You've mistaken me for Basskisser. BTW, despite your contention otherwise, some of the Columbine weapons were illegally purchased at a Colorado gun show. If you are just talking about nuts and people shooting the ones they love, registration and background checks mean nothing. Until they snap, they will be fine upstanding citizens who would pass any background check and after they go on their shooting spree, there is no problem figuring out who did it or what gun they used. Gun registration does little in solving crimes; it reduces it. Keeps the guns in the hands of fewer people. Make it a big hassle to own a gun, and "marginal" people are less likely to get their hands on one. Simple as that. |
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In article ,
says... On 11/1/2014 1:50 AM, wrote: On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 21:53:52 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: That's why the show is interesting. It goes into that sort of stuff. It's not a liberal political thing like the rest of the MSNBC programing. I have no interest in watching a prison reality show. I spent plenty of time in the prisons when I was inspecting and a little bit of that kind of reality goes a long way. That's why the show is worth seeing once in a while for those of us who have never seen the inside of a jail or prison. Most of the inmates have a totally different outlook on society and life in general and it's a way of thinking that most of us cannot fathom. I've watched it, and never more than 5 minutes, but it didn't teach me anything I didn't know. It's probably the cheapest show to produce on MSNBC. I don't quite understand why it's still in production, but that channel is full of questionable programming decisions. It's seems the show is running for many hours around the weekend, and I don't like spending my time in prison with low-lifes. |
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On Sat, 1 Nov 2014 12:15:27 -0500, Boating All Out
wrote: Gun registration does little in solving crimes; it reduces it. Keeps the guns in the hands of fewer people. Make it a big hassle to own a gun, and "marginal" people are less likely to get their hands on one. Simple as that. === One man's "marginal person" is another man's fine, upstanding citizen. Who gets to decide - some government bureaucrat who may not like guns in the first place? |
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On Sat, 1 Nov 2014 13:48:27 -0400, BAR wrote:
Not too many people insert them. They just lay the gun on the table and step back. === That means the RSO (Range Safety Officer) is not doing their job. |
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On Sat, 1 Nov 2014 13:48:27 -0400, BAR wrote:
In article , says... On 11/1/2014 11:44 AM, wrote: On Sat, 01 Nov 2014 06:58:03 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 11/1/2014 1:44 AM, wrote: On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 21:19:40 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/31/2014 8:49 PM, wrote: On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 13:02:04 -0700 (PDT), wrote: Raises another question. Ever wonder why a new gun comes with a spent shell in the box or case? To test functionality. And/Or, to build a database of gun "fingerprints", i.e. bullet striations. That info, along with registration, can lead back to the owner. I have never bought a gun with a case in the box. I do question the validity of all of these ballistic fingerprint things if the gun has been used a lot. I agree that if they have the gun and a recently fired bullet or case, they usually can match them up but if this gun has several thousand rounds of barrel erosion and the slings and arrows of dirty ammo going through it, matching up tool marks from the day it was made is going to be far from exact. I bet the difference between S/N xxxxx1 and xxxxx2 brand new is less than xxxx1 to xxxx1 after years of hard use. If the same tool cut the rifling, won't the tool marks be very close to the same? Interesting. When was the last time you bought a new gun? Every gun I have purchased in the past 3-4 years has an envelope with a spent round casing that was fired from the gun at the factory. It's also mandatory that new guns come with some type of lock. Is this a MA thing or is it true everywhere? Certainly does not seem to be true in Florida. Maybe the dealers just remove it if the manufacturer puts them in there. The 9mm I bought recently had a trigger lock but it is a joke. A 10 year old with a fingernail file could pop it off. I'd like to see a trigger lock like that. The ones I have (gun manufacturer supplied) are pretty well made and substantial. I took the Ruger 10/22 to the range once and forgot the key. No way could I or anyone else remove the trigger lock unless we destroyed something (like the rifle). This thing is made of plastic. If I get a minute I will give this a look and see what the easiest way to get it off would be. Obviously I have tools in the garage that will take just about anything off. The chamber locks supplied by the gun manufacturers are also pretty high quality. Sure, maybe a heavy bolt cutter or half an hour with a hack saw would work but again, the purpose of a trigger or chamber lock is to help prevent accidental discharge of the firearm by the owner or an inquisitive visitor when stored in your home. They are not designed to prevent theft. 10 seconds with a side grinder? The locks are *required* ... again by law. Even if you purchase a used firearm from a licensed dealer up here, the dealer is required to furnish a lock. I still do not see the value. If your kid is going to be a problem around your gun, the trigger lock does not prevent access to the gun, they can play with the gun and the lock just becomes a puzzle for him and his friends. When I google how to remove a trigger lock I get hits for the various brands. Most seem to be destructive of the lock but if you stole the gun, so what? I would also be curious how hard it is to simply pick the lock. The one I have looks pretty trivial but I did not spend any time really looking at it. I'll repeat again. The locks are *NOT* designed to prevent or even dissuade theft. They are to help prevent accidental discharge. The ones I have been supplied are not cheap plastic either. The trigger lock is metal and would take anyone a while to figure out how to get it off without the key. A kid that found it in the house (if you were stupid enough to leave it laying around) isn't going to get it off in 10 seconds, 10 minutes or 10 hours. 10 seconds is a generous amount of time. The standard trigger lock regarless of what is it made of is very easy to get off of a firearm. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKfYCCEH0Y4 The range I shoot at provides cheap plastic chamber "locks". You are supposed to insert them and lay your gun down on the firing table whenever the range is down while someone is placing targets, etc. Are you talking about a chamber lock or a chamber block. The chamber block is effective ini letting people know that the chamber lock is in the firearm and if properly inserted will show that the firearm has no round in the chamber. Not too many people insert them. They just lay the gun on the table and step back. Most people will drop the magazine and lock the slide to the rear leaving the chamber open. After I am doen firing the rounds in the mag, I drop the magazine, visually check the chamber and then put the firearm down and lay it on its left side. If you ever shoot at Quantico, be sure to take the chamber blocks. They will not let you put the gun down and clear your position without one in the chamber. |
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On 11/1/2014 2:23 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Sat, 1 Nov 2014 12:15:27 -0500, Boating All Out wrote: Gun registration does little in solving crimes; it reduces it. Keeps the guns in the hands of fewer people. Make it a big hassle to own a gun, and "marginal" people are less likely to get their hands on one. Simple as that. === One man's "marginal person" is another man's fine, upstanding citizen. Who gets to decide - some government bureaucrat who may not like guns in the first place? Democrats get to decide. Maybe we can get the same friendly folks from the IRS who decided who got free speech during the last two election cycles. That ought to please, well, at least 51% of the pouplation :) |
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On 11/1/2014 12:08 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 11/1/2014 11:44 AM, wrote: On Sat, 01 Nov 2014 06:58:03 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 11/1/2014 1:44 AM, wrote: On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 21:19:40 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/31/2014 8:49 PM, wrote: On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 13:02:04 -0700 (PDT), wrote: Raises another question. Ever wonder why a new gun comes with a spent shell in the box or case? To test functionality. And/Or, to build a database of gun "fingerprints", i.e. bullet striations. That info, along with registration, can lead back to the owner. I have never bought a gun with a case in the box. I do question the validity of all of these ballistic fingerprint things if the gun has been used a lot. I agree that if they have the gun and a recently fired bullet or case, they usually can match them up but if this gun has several thousand rounds of barrel erosion and the slings and arrows of dirty ammo going through it, matching up tool marks from the day it was made is going to be far from exact. I bet the difference between S/N xxxxx1 and xxxxx2 brand new is less than xxxx1 to xxxx1 after years of hard use. If the same tool cut the rifling, won't the tool marks be very close to the same? Interesting. When was the last time you bought a new gun? Every gun I have purchased in the past 3-4 years has an envelope with a spent round casing that was fired from the gun at the factory. It's also mandatory that new guns come with some type of lock. Is this a MA thing or is it true everywhere? Certainly does not seem to be true in Florida. Maybe the dealers just remove it if the manufacturer puts them in there. The 9mm I bought recently had a trigger lock but it is a joke. A 10 year old with a fingernail file could pop it off. I'd like to see a trigger lock like that. The ones I have (gun manufacturer supplied) are pretty well made and substantial. I took the Ruger 10/22 to the range once and forgot the key. No way could I or anyone else remove the trigger lock unless we destroyed something (like the rifle). This thing is made of plastic. If I get a minute I will give this a look and see what the easiest way to get it off would be. Obviously I have tools in the garage that will take just about anything off. The chamber locks supplied by the gun manufacturers are also pretty high quality. Sure, maybe a heavy bolt cutter or half an hour with a hack saw would work but again, the purpose of a trigger or chamber lock is to help prevent accidental discharge of the firearm by the owner or an inquisitive visitor when stored in your home. They are not designed to prevent theft. 10 seconds with a side grinder? The locks are *required* ... again by law. Even if you purchase a used firearm from a licensed dealer up here, the dealer is required to furnish a lock. I still do not see the value. If your kid is going to be a problem around your gun, the trigger lock does not prevent access to the gun, they can play with the gun and the lock just becomes a puzzle for him and his friends. When I google how to remove a trigger lock I get hits for the various brands. Most seem to be destructive of the lock but if you stole the gun, so what? I would also be curious how hard it is to simply pick the lock. The one I have looks pretty trivial but I did not spend any time really looking at it. I'll repeat again. The locks are *NOT* designed to prevent or even dissuade theft. They are to help prevent accidental discharge. We agree on that, locks only keep honest people honest like my dad used to say. The ones I have been supplied are not cheap plastic either. The trigger lock is metal and would take anyone a while to figure out how to get it off without the key. A kid that found it in the house (if you were stupid enough to leave it laying around) isn't going to get it off in 10 seconds, 10 minutes or 10 hours. Again, I agree. Youtube all you want, then try it. I tried to Youtube a lock for our trailer, the technique, perfectly applied failed miserably. When I was a kid I decided that since I kept losing house keys, I would just make a pic set and learn to pick the locks around the house. I was always pretty good with tools and such, had a friend who helped me make the tools (his dad did locksmithing) but never actually had success with a 5 pin houselock and rakepick.... Furthermore, I suggest if somebody thinks Youtube is so good, look up starting fires without matches then go into the wilderness without matches and see how it goes.. it's just not as easy as it is edited to look... My dad was a scoutmaster, I got to the rank of Life and camped all of my life. I do not remember actually ever being successful with "rubbing two sticks together" even though I know how to do it.... The range I shoot at provides cheap plastic chamber "locks". You are supposed to insert them and lay your gun down on the firing table whenever the range is down while someone is placing targets, etc. Not too many people insert them. They just lay the gun on the table and step back. That is unacceptable and pretty stupid of the range operator, negligent at it's worst. Seriously, take a cell phone pic of that to protect yourself or someone else in case of accident. It's like safety flagging a race. When I run a crew, cell phones are not allowed on the track cause if one person catches even a random shot of a flagger on the phone reading a text on raceday and someone gets hurt on the track that day, we could be ****ed. Doesn't matter if the race was even going on when the flagger was looking at the screen cause really, you may not be able to prove that from a photo, but the plaintiff could easily prove a flagger was pre-occupied during the race... and that would be low hanging fruit for any jury... |
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On 11/1/2014 1:48 PM, BAR wrote:
In article , says... On 11/1/2014 11:44 AM, wrote: On Sat, 01 Nov 2014 06:58:03 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 11/1/2014 1:44 AM, wrote: On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 21:19:40 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/31/2014 8:49 PM, wrote: On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 13:02:04 -0700 (PDT), wrote: Raises another question. Ever wonder why a new gun comes with a spent shell in the box or case? To test functionality. And/Or, to build a database of gun "fingerprints", i.e. bullet striations. That info, along with registration, can lead back to the owner. I have never bought a gun with a case in the box. I do question the validity of all of these ballistic fingerprint things if the gun has been used a lot. I agree that if they have the gun and a recently fired bullet or case, they usually can match them up but if this gun has several thousand rounds of barrel erosion and the slings and arrows of dirty ammo going through it, matching up tool marks from the day it was made is going to be far from exact. I bet the difference between S/N xxxxx1 and xxxxx2 brand new is less than xxxx1 to xxxx1 after years of hard use. If the same tool cut the rifling, won't the tool marks be very close to the same? Interesting. When was the last time you bought a new gun? Every gun I have purchased in the past 3-4 years has an envelope with a spent round casing that was fired from the gun at the factory. It's also mandatory that new guns come with some type of lock. Is this a MA thing or is it true everywhere? Certainly does not seem to be true in Florida. Maybe the dealers just remove it if the manufacturer puts them in there. The 9mm I bought recently had a trigger lock but it is a joke. A 10 year old with a fingernail file could pop it off. I'd like to see a trigger lock like that. The ones I have (gun manufacturer supplied) are pretty well made and substantial. I took the Ruger 10/22 to the range once and forgot the key. No way could I or anyone else remove the trigger lock unless we destroyed something (like the rifle). This thing is made of plastic. If I get a minute I will give this a look and see what the easiest way to get it off would be. Obviously I have tools in the garage that will take just about anything off. The chamber locks supplied by the gun manufacturers are also pretty high quality. Sure, maybe a heavy bolt cutter or half an hour with a hack saw would work but again, the purpose of a trigger or chamber lock is to help prevent accidental discharge of the firearm by the owner or an inquisitive visitor when stored in your home. They are not designed to prevent theft. 10 seconds with a side grinder? The locks are *required* ... again by law. Even if you purchase a used firearm from a licensed dealer up here, the dealer is required to furnish a lock. I still do not see the value. If your kid is going to be a problem around your gun, the trigger lock does not prevent access to the gun, they can play with the gun and the lock just becomes a puzzle for him and his friends. When I google how to remove a trigger lock I get hits for the various brands. Most seem to be destructive of the lock but if you stole the gun, so what? I would also be curious how hard it is to simply pick the lock. The one I have looks pretty trivial but I did not spend any time really looking at it. I'll repeat again. The locks are *NOT* designed to prevent or even dissuade theft. They are to help prevent accidental discharge. The ones I have been supplied are not cheap plastic either. The trigger lock is metal and would take anyone a while to figure out how to get it off without the key. A kid that found it in the house (if you were stupid enough to leave it laying around) isn't going to get it off in 10 seconds, 10 minutes or 10 hours. 10 seconds is a generous amount of time. The standard trigger lock regarless of what is it made of is very easy to get off of a firearm. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKfYCCEH0Y4 I don't know but it almost seems the lock is designed that way ... meaning there's a relatively easy method of taking it off if you lose the key (if you know how to do it). A kid or someone who doesn't know how to do it isn't going to get it off in 10 seconds. Even the guy in the video didn't. Point again is: They are made to help prevent accidental discharge ... not theft. |
Had to share this story
On 11/1/2014 2:25 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Sat, 1 Nov 2014 13:48:27 -0400, BAR wrote: Not too many people insert them. They just lay the gun on the table and step back. === That means the RSO (Range Safety Officer) is not doing their job. The only time I've seen one of the RSO's walking around is on weekends when the range is fairly busy. During the weekdays there is rarely one around. The range isn't busy either. |
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