On 2/10/2014 9:29 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/10/2014 9:05 AM, F.O.A.D. wrote:
On 2/10/14, 8:58 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/10/2014 7:57 AM, F.O.A.D. wrote:
On 2/10/14, 7:45 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/10/2014 5:35 AM, F.O.A.D. wrote:
On 2/10/14, 2:31 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 10 Feb 2014 01:08:02 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Mon, 10 Feb 2014 00:58:43 -0500, wrote:

For $200 it comes with a fairly fast processor and Win 7
professional.

I suspect it will sell out quickly at that price.

I bet off lease W7 machines will be more like $125 -150 soon and
Tiger
is not usually even the best place to look.

===

Win7 Pro by itself is worth $80 or more.

That is not a retail version it is the OEM so it is really not worth
that much.
They usually call that "logo only" (has a valid 25 digit code
sticker)
You are probably going to have to reload it.
Since there were originally sold as "enterprise" machines, they
don't
come with the disks a retail customer gets.
You may have to buy the disk (~$10). I bought one for my first off
lease HP XP machine.
It is good because it comes with all the HP drivers.



A few years ago, I saw some allegedly new, legit XP CDs at a computer
swap meeting. They were $5 to $10. Wouldn't Win 7 be available at the
same sales outlets soon at similar prices? I don't keep up with the
Windoze OS anymore, but I was going to install Win 7 on my Mac
until I
saw the OS was fetching $100+ from mail order dealers. If I happen to
notice a swap meet in the area, I might stop by and pay up to $10
for a
64-bit Win 7 CD/DVD.



I realize my application is somewhat in the minority but I am
beginning
to wish I had *not* installed Mavericks in my iMac. I am having all
kinds of problems making a midi controller work properly for
recording
purposes. The midi "events" simply instruct the program used to play
certain instruments, what note, velocity, etc. I am having problems
with the system "hanging", missing event inputs and generally
operating
in an unstable way.

I thought it was me. After a month of trying to make it work
properly
I have discovered that their are many, many other long term Mac users
who are experiencing the same problems, most of whom used previous
versions of the Mac OSX with no problems at all. I've scoured the
Apple Support forums and, to date, no one has found the "secret" to
making Mavericks work with midi in the same, reliable manner that
Mountain Lion and previous versions worked.

My friend (the recording engineer) has none of these problems with
Mountain Lion and is using basically the same type of equipment I
have.
He was about to upgrade to Mavericks but I suggested to him that he
may
want to hold off for a while.

I tried temporarily hooking everything up to my Win 7 computer. Works
fine.

I wonder if I can remove Mavericks and re-install Mountain Lion.



Have you contacted Apple directly via Apple Care? I had a problem
getting the built-in wifi on my new little Canon camera to link up
consistently with my new iMac. I contacted Apple care last week, an
engineer called me, he had a solution that partially worked and said he
would escalate the problem to a development team. He called me on
Saturday to let me know the "team" sent him an email saying it was
working on the problem and might get back to him this week.





I have not personally called Apple Care but a number of Mac users on the
forums who are experiencing the same problems have indicated that they
have. To date, there appears to be no resolution.



How about the midi software vendor? If it expects its product to
survive, it obvious has to make an update available.


The software I am currently using is Apple's Garage Band (full version).
So, if an update is needed to run on Mavericks, I would think they
would be aware of it.

According to the forum users, the problem exists in other recording,
editing and mixing applications besides Garage Band. Same issues of
hanging and missing input events. As previously mentioned, the
recording engineer I know is using essentially the same midi devices
that I am using but does not have a problem with Mountain Lion.

It's not going to go over well if the only resolution is to purchase new
software. Pro-Tools is $700 and is probably the most popular among
users, both amateur and professional. I think I mentioned that I have
a brand new copy of an earlier version of Pro-Tools but I already know
it won't run in Mavericks. It *does* run in Mountain Lion and also on
a Windows PC. I'd be willing to go back to Mountain Lion if I knew
how. Need to check into that.




Is there something wrong with Windows?

On Mon, 10 Feb 2014 14:08:24 -0500, HanK wrote:

Is there something wrong with Windows?

===

It's too complicated for Harry's simple tastes.

On 2/10/14, 11:34 AM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Mon, 10 Feb 2014 14:08:24 -0500, HanK wrote:

Is there something wrong with Windows?

===

It's too complicated for Harry's simple tastes.

Can not be, when you are all knowing.

On 2/10/2014 2:08 PM, HanK wrote:
On 2/10/2014 9:29 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/10/2014 9:05 AM, F.O.A.D. wrote:
On 2/10/14, 8:58 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/10/2014 7:57 AM, F.O.A.D. wrote:
On 2/10/14, 7:45 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/10/2014 5:35 AM, F.O.A.D. wrote:
On 2/10/14, 2:31 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 10 Feb 2014 01:08:02 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Mon, 10 Feb 2014 00:58:43 -0500, wrote:

For $200 it comes with a fairly fast processor and Win 7
professional.

I suspect it will sell out quickly at that price.

I bet off lease W7 machines will be more like $125 -150 soon and
Tiger
is not usually even the best place to look.

===

Win7 Pro by itself is worth $80 or more.

That is not a retail version it is the OEM so it is really not
worth
that much.
They usually call that "logo only" (has a valid 25 digit code
sticker)
You are probably going to have to reload it.
Since there were originally sold as "enterprise" machines, they
don't
come with the disks a retail customer gets.
You may have to buy the disk (~$10). I bought one for my first
off
lease HP XP machine.
It is good because it comes with all the HP drivers.



A few years ago, I saw some allegedly new, legit XP CDs at a
computer
swap meeting. They were $5 to $10. Wouldn't Win 7 be available at
the
same sales outlets soon at similar prices? I don't keep up with the
Windoze OS anymore, but I was going to install Win 7 on my Mac
until I
saw the OS was fetching $100+ from mail order dealers. If I
happen to
notice a swap meet in the area, I might stop by and pay up to $10
for a
64-bit Win 7 CD/DVD.



I realize my application is somewhat in the minority but I am
beginning
to wish I had *not* installed Mavericks in my iMac. I am having
all
kinds of problems making a midi controller work properly for
recording
purposes. The midi "events" simply instruct the program used to play
certain instruments, what note, velocity, etc. I am having problems
with the system "hanging", missing event inputs and generally
operating
in an unstable way.

I thought it was me. After a month of trying to make it work
properly
I have discovered that their are many, many other long term Mac users
who are experiencing the same problems, most of whom used previous
versions of the Mac OSX with no problems at all. I've scoured the
Apple Support forums and, to date, no one has found the "secret" to
making Mavericks work with midi in the same, reliable manner that
Mountain Lion and previous versions worked.

My friend (the recording engineer) has none of these problems with
Mountain Lion and is using basically the same type of equipment I
have.
He was about to upgrade to Mavericks but I suggested to him that he
may
want to hold off for a while.

I tried temporarily hooking everything up to my Win 7 computer.
Works
fine.

I wonder if I can remove Mavericks and re-install Mountain Lion.



Have you contacted Apple directly via Apple Care? I had a problem
getting the built-in wifi on my new little Canon camera to link up
consistently with my new iMac. I contacted Apple care last week, an
engineer called me, he had a solution that partially worked and
said he
would escalate the problem to a development team. He called me on
Saturday to let me know the "team" sent him an email saying it was
working on the problem and might get back to him this week.





I have not personally called Apple Care but a number of Mac users on
the
forums who are experiencing the same problems have indicated that they
have. To date, there appears to be no resolution.



How about the midi software vendor? If it expects its product to
survive, it obvious has to make an update available.


The software I am currently using is Apple's Garage Band (full version).
So, if an update is needed to run on Mavericks, I would think they
would be aware of it.

According to the forum users, the problem exists in other recording,
editing and mixing applications besides Garage Band. Same issues of
hanging and missing input events. As previously mentioned, the
recording engineer I know is using essentially the same midi devices
that I am using but does not have a problem with Mountain Lion.

It's not going to go over well if the only resolution is to purchase new
software. Pro-Tools is $700 and is probably the most popular among
users, both amateur and professional. I think I mentioned that I have
a brand new copy of an earlier version of Pro-Tools but I already know
it won't run in Mavericks. It *does* run in Mountain Lion and also on
a Windows PC. I'd be willing to go back to Mountain Lion if I knew
how. Need to check into that.




Is there something wrong with Windows?

Nothing wrong with Windows in my experience. It's just that the iMac
has a much nicer, easier to read display and came with more RAM and a
faster hard drive so it seems to handle more demanding applications
better. For what I am messing around with, the iMac is definitely
faster. I really haven't got into much more of it yet, so I can't
really comment on other applications. I suspect less demanding
applications such as word processing, etc. won't be noticeably from Mac
to Windows.

What I do with the recording/editing/mixing and mastering tasks a
computer fairly hard. I suspect that's why most pros who do it use Macs.

I've noticed a few things that may or may not be a fair comparison.
For example, if I watch a long video on one of the Windows laptops, the
fan starts running faster and the housing gets noticeably warm to the
touch, meaning the CPU and other electronic components are working
harder. The iMac is dead silent. The housing never feels warm at all,
even after some extensive hard use like watching a full length movie in
full screen. The only time I've ever heard the disk drive run is when I
was downloading and installing the Mavericks OSX upgrade. Other than
that, I've never heard it. Not the same on the Windows machines.

On 2/10/2014 2:34 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Mon, 10 Feb 2014 14:08:24 -0500, HanK wrote:

Is there something wrong with Windows?

===

It's too complicated for Harry's simple tastes.

It must be. Even with the uncomplicated Apple box he uses, he seems to
be needing an ever expanding team of experts to show him how to run it.
But in Harry's defense, even some of the brighter individuals here are
having issues with Apple stuff.

On 2/10/2014 2:44 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/10/2014 2:08 PM, HanK wrote:
On 2/10/2014 9:29 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/10/2014 9:05 AM, F.O.A.D. wrote:
On 2/10/14, 8:58 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/10/2014 7:57 AM, F.O.A.D. wrote:
On 2/10/14, 7:45 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/10/2014 5:35 AM, F.O.A.D. wrote:
On 2/10/14, 2:31 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 10 Feb 2014 01:08:02 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Mon, 10 Feb 2014 00:58:43 -0500, wrote:

For $200 it comes with a fairly fast processor and Win 7
professional.

I suspect it will sell out quickly at that price.

I bet off lease W7 machines will be more like $125 -150 soon and
Tiger
is not usually even the best place to look.

===

Win7 Pro by itself is worth $80 or more.

That is not a retail version it is the OEM so it is really not
worth
that much.
They usually call that "logo only" (has a valid 25 digit code
sticker)
You are probably going to have to reload it.
Since there were originally sold as "enterprise" machines, they
don't
come with the disks a retail customer gets.
You may have to buy the disk (~$10). I bought one for my first
off
lease HP XP machine.
It is good because it comes with all the HP drivers.



A few years ago, I saw some allegedly new, legit XP CDs at a
computer
swap meeting. They were $5 to $10. Wouldn't Win 7 be available at
the
same sales outlets soon at similar prices? I don't keep up with the
Windoze OS anymore, but I was going to install Win 7 on my Mac
until I
saw the OS was fetching $100+ from mail order dealers. If I
happen to
notice a swap meet in the area, I might stop by and pay up to $10
for a
64-bit Win 7 CD/DVD.



I realize my application is somewhat in the minority but I am
beginning
to wish I had *not* installed Mavericks in my iMac. I am having
all
kinds of problems making a midi controller work properly for
recording
purposes. The midi "events" simply instruct the program used to
play
certain instruments, what note, velocity, etc. I am having problems
with the system "hanging", missing event inputs and generally
operating
in an unstable way.

I thought it was me. After a month of trying to make it work
properly
I have discovered that their are many, many other long term Mac
users
who are experiencing the same problems, most of whom used previous
versions of the Mac OSX with no problems at all. I've scoured the
Apple Support forums and, to date, no one has found the "secret" to
making Mavericks work with midi in the same, reliable manner that
Mountain Lion and previous versions worked.

My friend (the recording engineer) has none of these problems with
Mountain Lion and is using basically the same type of equipment I
have.
He was about to upgrade to Mavericks but I suggested to him that he
may
want to hold off for a while.

I tried temporarily hooking everything up to my Win 7 computer.
Works
fine.

I wonder if I can remove Mavericks and re-install Mountain Lion.



Have you contacted Apple directly via Apple Care? I had a problem
getting the built-in wifi on my new little Canon camera to link up
consistently with my new iMac. I contacted Apple care last week, an
engineer called me, he had a solution that partially worked and
said he
would escalate the problem to a development team. He called me on
Saturday to let me know the "team" sent him an email saying it was
working on the problem and might get back to him this week.





I have not personally called Apple Care but a number of Mac users on
the
forums who are experiencing the same problems have indicated that they
have. To date, there appears to be no resolution.



How about the midi software vendor? If it expects its product to
survive, it obvious has to make an update available.


The software I am currently using is Apple's Garage Band (full version).
So, if an update is needed to run on Mavericks, I would think they
would be aware of it.

According to the forum users, the problem exists in other recording,
editing and mixing applications besides Garage Band. Same issues of
hanging and missing input events. As previously mentioned, the
recording engineer I know is using essentially the same midi devices
that I am using but does not have a problem with Mountain Lion.

It's not going to go over well if the only resolution is to purchase new
software. Pro-Tools is $700 and is probably the most popular among
users, both amateur and professional. I think I mentioned that I have
a brand new copy of an earlier version of Pro-Tools but I already know
it won't run in Mavericks. It *does* run in Mountain Lion and also on
a Windows PC. I'd be willing to go back to Mountain Lion if I knew
how. Need to check into that.




Is there something wrong with Windows?

Nothing wrong with Windows in my experience. It's just that the iMac
has a much nicer, easier to read display and came with more RAM and a
faster hard drive so it seems to handle more demanding applications
better. For what I am messing around with, the iMac is definitely
faster. I really haven't got into much more of it yet, so I can't
really comment on other applications. I suspect less demanding
applications such as word processing, etc. won't be noticeably from Mac
to Windows.

What I do with the recording/editing/mixing and mastering tasks a
computer fairly hard. I suspect that's why most pros who do it use Macs.

I've noticed a few things that may or may not be a fair comparison.
For example, if I watch a long video on one of the Windows laptops, the
fan starts running faster and the housing gets noticeably warm to the
touch, meaning the CPU and other electronic components are working
harder. The iMac is dead silent. The housing never feels warm at all,
even after some extensive hard use like watching a full length movie in
full screen. The only time I've ever heard the disk drive run is when I
was downloading and installing the Mavericks OSX upgrade. Other than
that, I've never heard it. Not the same on the Windows machines.



Are you comparing your new Apple to a new Windows machine with equal or
better resources? I suspect most pros are more into their art than
computers.

On 2/10/2014 3:08 PM, HanK wrote:
On 2/10/2014 2:44 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/10/2014 2:08 PM, HanK wrote:
On 2/10/2014 9:29 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/10/2014 9:05 AM, F.O.A.D. wrote:
On 2/10/14, 8:58 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/10/2014 7:57 AM, F.O.A.D. wrote:
On 2/10/14, 7:45 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/10/2014 5:35 AM, F.O.A.D. wrote:
On 2/10/14, 2:31 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 10 Feb 2014 01:08:02 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Mon, 10 Feb 2014 00:58:43 -0500, wrote:

For $200 it comes with a fairly fast processor and Win 7
professional.

I suspect it will sell out quickly at that price.

I bet off lease W7 machines will be more like $125 -150 soon
and
Tiger
is not usually even the best place to look.

===

Win7 Pro by itself is worth $80 or more.

That is not a retail version it is the OEM so it is really not
worth
that much.
They usually call that "logo only" (has a valid 25 digit code
sticker)
You are probably going to have to reload it.
Since there were originally sold as "enterprise" machines, they
don't
come with the disks a retail customer gets.
You may have to buy the disk (~$10). I bought one for my first
off
lease HP XP machine.
It is good because it comes with all the HP drivers.



A few years ago, I saw some allegedly new, legit XP CDs at a
computer
swap meeting. They were $5 to $10. Wouldn't Win 7 be available at
the
same sales outlets soon at similar prices? I don't keep up with
the
Windoze OS anymore, but I was going to install Win 7 on my Mac
until I
saw the OS was fetching $100+ from mail order dealers. If I
happen to
notice a swap meet in the area, I might stop by and pay up to $10
for a
64-bit Win 7 CD/DVD.



I realize my application is somewhat in the minority but I am
beginning
to wish I had *not* installed Mavericks in my iMac. I am having
all
kinds of problems making a midi controller work properly for
recording
purposes. The midi "events" simply instruct the program used to
play
certain instruments, what note, velocity, etc. I am having
problems
with the system "hanging", missing event inputs and generally
operating
in an unstable way.

I thought it was me. After a month of trying to make it work
properly
I have discovered that their are many, many other long term Mac
users
who are experiencing the same problems, most of whom used previous
versions of the Mac OSX with no problems at all. I've scoured the
Apple Support forums and, to date, no one has found the "secret" to
making Mavericks work with midi in the same, reliable manner that
Mountain Lion and previous versions worked.

My friend (the recording engineer) has none of these problems with
Mountain Lion and is using basically the same type of equipment I
have.
He was about to upgrade to Mavericks but I suggested to him
that he
may
want to hold off for a while.

I tried temporarily hooking everything up to my Win 7 computer.
Works
fine.

I wonder if I can remove Mavericks and re-install Mountain Lion.



Have you contacted Apple directly via Apple Care? I had a problem
getting the built-in wifi on my new little Canon camera to link up
consistently with my new iMac. I contacted Apple care last week, an
engineer called me, he had a solution that partially worked and
said he
would escalate the problem to a development team. He called me on
Saturday to let me know the "team" sent him an email saying it was
working on the problem and might get back to him this week.





I have not personally called Apple Care but a number of Mac users on
the
forums who are experiencing the same problems have indicated that
they
have. To date, there appears to be no resolution.



How about the midi software vendor? If it expects its product to
survive, it obvious has to make an update available.


The software I am currently using is Apple's Garage Band (full
version).
So, if an update is needed to run on Mavericks, I would think they
would be aware of it.

According to the forum users, the problem exists in other recording,
editing and mixing applications besides Garage Band. Same issues of
hanging and missing input events. As previously mentioned, the
recording engineer I know is using essentially the same midi devices
that I am using but does not have a problem with Mountain Lion.

It's not going to go over well if the only resolution is to purchase
new
software. Pro-Tools is $700 and is probably the most popular among
users, both amateur and professional. I think I mentioned that I have
a brand new copy of an earlier version of Pro-Tools but I already know
it won't run in Mavericks. It *does* run in Mountain Lion and also on
a Windows PC. I'd be willing to go back to Mountain Lion if I knew
how. Need to check into that.




Is there something wrong with Windows?

Nothing wrong with Windows in my experience. It's just that the iMac
has a much nicer, easier to read display and came with more RAM and a
faster hard drive so it seems to handle more demanding applications
better. For what I am messing around with, the iMac is definitely
faster. I really haven't got into much more of it yet, so I can't
really comment on other applications. I suspect less demanding
applications such as word processing, etc. won't be noticeably from Mac
to Windows.

What I do with the recording/editing/mixing and mastering tasks a
computer fairly hard. I suspect that's why most pros who do it use Macs.

I've noticed a few things that may or may not be a fair comparison.
For example, if I watch a long video on one of the Windows laptops, the
fan starts running faster and the housing gets noticeably warm to the
touch, meaning the CPU and other electronic components are working
harder. The iMac is dead silent. The housing never feels warm at all,
even after some extensive hard use like watching a full length movie in
full screen. The only time I've ever heard the disk drive run is when I
was downloading and installing the Mavericks OSX upgrade. Other than
that, I've never heard it. Not the same on the Windows machines.



Are you comparing your new Apple to a new Windows machine with equal or
better resources? I suspect most pros are more into their art than
computers.


Both of my Windows laptops are 64 bit machines with a similar CPU clock
speed of the iMac. I think the iMac has a slightly faster CPU than the
Vista laptop but is near identical to the Win7 laptop. The major
difference is RAM. The laptops each have 4Gb whereas the iMac has 8Gb.
I don't know how that would affect how hot they run however. Maybe it
does. I just don't know. All I know is that the iMac is dead silent,
even when performing a lot of computing and I can't feel any "warm"
spots on it anywhere. I've felt for it, mainy because I am curious like
that.

In article , says...


Have you contacted Apple directly via Apple Care? I had a problem
getting the built-in wifi on my new little Canon camera to link up
consistently with my new iMac. I contacted Apple care last week, an
engineer called me, he had a solution that partially worked and said he
would escalate the problem to a development team. He called me on
Saturday to let me know the "team" sent him an email saying it was
working on the problem and might get back to him this week.

I'm beginning to see why the computer-illiterate prefer Apple.
Hand-holding.
I wonder how many people here with Win systems have talked to or
exchanged e-mails with Window tech support.
Not me.

On 2/10/2014 6:31 PM, Boating All Out wrote:
In article , says...


Have you contacted Apple directly via Apple Care? I had a problem
getting the built-in wifi on my new little Canon camera to link up
consistently with my new iMac. I contacted Apple care last week, an
engineer called me, he had a solution that partially worked and said he
would escalate the problem to a development team. He called me on
Saturday to let me know the "team" sent him an email saying it was
working on the problem and might get back to him this week.

I'm beginning to see why the computer-illiterate prefer Apple.
Hand-holding.
I wonder how many people here with Win systems have talked to or
exchanged e-mails with Window tech support.
Not me.



Me either and I've been using Windows since it came out. Before that I
used DOS and "Geo-Works".

I am still exploring the Mac world. There are things I like and there
are things I either don't like or maybe don't understand yet.

One thing is for sure however. The "Mac" world is not as intuitive or
problem-free as many of the Apple acolytes would like us all to believe.

Other than the issue I am having with recording midi stuff I really
haven't had an issue that I couldn't figure out, but it sometimes takes
some hunting on the 'net to find the answers. The "help" sections and
tutorials built into the Mac are not very specific or helpful. I get
the impression sometimes that those who never used a computer or Windows
would have an easier time becoming accustom to the Mac world which is
maybe why I get tangle footed sometimes.

Here's an example. I was trying to set up the 16 channels for midi
event inputs last night. There's a window I found that represents the
channels as boxes, numbered 1-16. I discovered if you click on the
individual boxes, they change color from white to blue but nowhere does
it indicate if blue represents "on" or "off". I guess you are just
supposed to know this stuff. Wouldn't a check mark for "on" and blank
for "off" make more sense? Why white and blue? Beats me.

This is after spending an hour even finding the setup window with the
boxes for these channels. Nowhere can I find any references to it in
the help sections or setup instructions.

In article ,
says...


Both of my Windows laptops are 64 bit machines with a similar CPU clock
speed of the iMac. I think the iMac has a slightly faster CPU than the
Vista laptop but is near identical to the Win7 laptop. The major
difference is RAM. The laptops each have 4Gb whereas the iMac has 8Gb.
I don't know how that would affect how hot they run however. Maybe it
does. I just don't know. All I know is that the iMac is dead silent,
even when performing a lot of computing and I can't feel any "warm"
spots on it anywhere. I've felt for it, mainy because I am curious like
that.

Graphics GPU, fan and case quality also come into play.
Some GPUs have noisy fans - if you have one. Might have integrated
graphics.
Never had a laptop, except a couple provided by work.
My desktop emits a hum from various fans, but doesn't change when
running graphics intenseive apps.
There has been a hobby, or whatever you want to call it, to have quiet
machines of late. Low-decibel fans, "quiet" hard drives, and insulated
cases.
You didn't mention if the laptops have SSDs.