On Friday, January 17, 2014 8:31:27 PM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 1/17/2014 8:09 PM, wrote:

On Friday, January 17, 2014 8:00:09 PM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:



50 years ago when I was about that age if I ever got caught with some

friends entering a vacant building, I'd probably be hauled down to the

police station along with my friends and all of the parents, read the

riot act by the cop on duty and then sent home to face the real

punishment at the hands of my old man.



The difference is, 50 years ago the chance of you and your friends packing heat is very low. As we've all seen, the chance of it now, with the numbing of our young by Hollywood's glamorization of violence along with video games, etc., has increased that chance many times. I'm, unfortunately, on the side of the homeowner. It's a consequence of the loss of morals by society in general.







I guess I agree although there is statistical data that would suggest

the opposite is true in terms of having access to firearms.



I found some data that covers 1973 to 2012 (39 years).



The percentage of households with one or more firearms has decreased

over that period from 49.1 percent in 1973 to 34.4 percent in 2012.

The percentage peaked in 1974 at 54 percent and the lowest was 2010 at

32.3 percent.



So, again, I put the blame solely on the lack of parenting.

I guess we're saying the same thing. It's not the number of firearms available, but rather the attitude of the people that put their hands on them. You and your friends wouldn't have thought of taking a pistol to that imaginary breakin, much less actually pulling the trigger on another human being.. Unfortunately, many people (not just the young) seem numb to the concept of killing someone being wrong. I agree that's it's lack of parenting, but also think it's repeated exposure as well.

On Fri, 17 Jan 2014 20:00:09 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 1/17/2014 7:19 PM, BAR wrote:
In article , says...

Watching Dr. Phil, the story is about four boys, 16 and 17 years old
that decided to rob a vacant home. When they got into the home, it turns
out the owner was home and came out with his gun. The home owner shot
and killed one of the boys. Because of the murder* committed during the
commission of a crime the three living boys were convicted of a murder
and each sentenced to 50 years.

I'm usually pretty hard on people that don't know what's theirs and
what's not, but 50 years for a 16 year old is pretty tough.




*not sure why they keep calling it a murder.

If one of these young men had killed the homeowner they would all be faced with the same
outcome.




50 years ago when I was about that age if I ever got caught with some
friends entering a vacant building, I'd probably be hauled down to the
police station along with my friends and all of the parents, read the
riot act by the cop on duty and then sent home to face the real
punishment at the hands of my old man.

Today you get shot or sent to prison for 50 years.

Is it me or has the concept of parenting and teaching right and wrong
gone out the window? It seems like many young people today have many
anger issues and absolutely no respect for authority, rules, laws or
respect for the property of others.


Look at 'homicide, dc' or homicide, chicago, or homicide detroit and check out the ages of the
suspects. Very young, most of them.

On 1/17/14, 9:24 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 17 Jan 2014 20:00:09 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 1/17/2014 7:19 PM, BAR wrote:
In article , says...

Watching Dr. Phil, the story is about four boys, 16 and 17 years old
that decided to rob a vacant home. When they got into the home, it turns
out the owner was home and came out with his gun. The home owner shot
and killed one of the boys. Because of the murder* committed during the
commission of a crime the three living boys were convicted of a murder
and each sentenced to 50 years.

I'm usually pretty hard on people that don't know what's theirs and
what's not, but 50 years for a 16 year old is pretty tough.




*not sure why they keep calling it a murder.

If one of these young men had killed the homeowner they would all be faced with the same
outcome.




50 years ago when I was about that age if I ever got caught with some
friends entering a vacant building, I'd probably be hauled down to the
police station along with my friends and all of the parents, read the
riot act by the cop on duty and then sent home to face the real
punishment at the hands of my old man.

Today you get shot or sent to prison for 50 years.

Is it me or has the concept of parenting and teaching right and wrong
gone out the window? It seems like many young people today have many
anger issues and absolutely no respect for authority, rules, laws or
respect for the property of others.


Look at 'homicide, dc' or homicide, chicago, or homicide detroit and check out the ages of the
suspects. Very young, most of them.


Look at the ages of your typical young men who are shooting up suburban
schools. "Very young, most of them." Is there a statistically
significant difference between the ages of urban and suburban shooters?
What was wrong with the parents of the Columbine shooters or Adam
Lanza's mother?

The point is, I think, is that there have been a great number of drastic
societal changes since the 1950s, and those changes, *including*
parenting and many, many other factors, have brought us the "shoot 'em
up" society we have today.

Sociology and other "people" sciences reveal many of the questions and
answers.

On Sat, 18 Jan 2014 08:00:14 -0500, "F.O.A.D." wrote:



Look at the ages of your typical young men who are shooting up suburban
schools. "Very young, most of them." Is there a statistically
significant difference between the ages of urban and suburban shooters?
What was wrong with the parents of the Columbine shooters or Adam
Lanza's mother?

The point is, I think, is that there have been a great number of drastic
societal changes since the 1950s, and those changes, *including*
parenting and many, many other factors, have brought us the "shoot 'em
up" society we have today.

Sociology and other "people" sciences reveal many of the questions and
answers.



Here, these are the top 25 most dangerous neighborhoods in the country. Note how often Chicago and
Detroit are listed. Suburban school shootings, although horrific, account for a very, very, small
percent of the total.

http://www.neighborhoodscout.com/nei...neighborhoods/

In article , says...

On 1/17/2014 7:19 PM, BAR wrote:
In article , says...

Watching Dr. Phil, the story is about four boys, 16 and 17 years old
that decided to rob a vacant home. When they got into the home, it turns
out the owner was home and came out with his gun. The home owner shot
and killed one of the boys. Because of the murder* committed during the
commission of a crime the three living boys were convicted of a murder
and each sentenced to 50 years.

I'm usually pretty hard on people that don't know what's theirs and
what's not, but 50 years for a 16 year old is pretty tough.




*not sure why they keep calling it a murder.

If one of these young men had killed the homeowner they would all be faced with the same
outcome.




50 years ago when I was about that age if I ever got caught with some
friends entering a vacant building, I'd probably be hauled down to the
police station along with my friends and all of the parents, read the
riot act by the cop on duty and then sent home to face the real
punishment at the hands of my old man.

Today you get shot or sent to prison for 50 years.

Is it me or has the concept of parenting and teaching right and wrong
gone out the window? It seems like many young people today have many
anger issues and absolutely no respect for authority, rules, laws or
respect for the property of others.

Parenting now is telling them they are all winners and they can do no wrong.

amdx wrote:
Watching Dr. Phil, the story is about four boys, 16 and 17 years old that
decided to rob a vacant home. When they got into the home, it turns out
the owner was home and came out with his gun. The home owner shot and
killed one of the boys. Because of the murder* committed during the
commission of a crime the three living boys were convicted of a murder
and each sentenced to 50 years.

I'm usually pretty hard on people that don't know what's theirs and
what's not, but 50 years for a 16 year old is pretty tough.




*not sure why they keep calling it a murder.

If it is like California, if a murder is committed during a felony, all are
guilty of murder, not just the one who did the actual killing. Basically
all are guilty of the same crime.

On 1/17/2014 10:48 PM, Califbill wrote:
amdx wrote:
Watching Dr. Phil, the story is about four boys, 16 and 17 years old that
decided to rob a vacant home. When they got into the home, it turns out
the owner was home and came out with his gun. The home owner shot and
killed one of the boys. Because of the murder* committed during the
commission of a crime the three living boys were convicted of a murder
and each sentenced to 50 years.

I'm usually pretty hard on people that don't know what's theirs and
what's not, but 50 years for a 16 year old is pretty tough.




*not sure why they keep calling it a murder.

If it is like California, if a murder is committed during a felony, all are
guilty of murder, not just the one who did the actual killing. Basically
all are guilty of the same crime.


I understand that, but this one is different, in that the murder was
committed by the home owner, not by the burglars. Just a bit of an oddity.
Mikek

amdx wrote:
On 1/17/2014 10:48 PM, Califbill wrote:
amdx wrote:
Watching Dr. Phil, the story is about four boys, 16 and 17 years old that
decided to rob a vacant home. When they got into the home, it turns out
the owner was home and came out with his gun. The home owner shot and
killed one of the boys. Because of the murder* committed during the
commission of a crime the three living boys were convicted of a murder
and each sentenced to 50 years.

I'm usually pretty hard on people that don't know what's theirs and
what's not, but 50 years for a 16 year old is pretty tough.




*not sure why they keep calling it a murder.

If it is like California, if a murder is committed during a felony, all are
guilty of murder, not just the one who did the actual killing. Basically
all are guilty of the same crime.


I understand that, but this one is different, in that the murder was
committed by the home owner, not by the burglars. Just a bit of an oddity.
Mikek

Actually in Calif. If a death occurs it is murder. If the death happens
during a crime. Does not really matter what caused the death, or who dies.