On Fri, 17 Jan 2014 20:31:27 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 1/17/2014 8:09 PM, wrote:
On Friday, January 17, 2014 8:00:09 PM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:

50 years ago when I was about that age if I ever got caught with some
friends entering a vacant building, I'd probably be hauled down to the
police station along with my friends and all of the parents, read the
riot act by the cop on duty and then sent home to face the real
punishment at the hands of my old man.

The difference is, 50 years ago the chance of you and your friends packing heat is very low. As we've all seen, the chance of it now, with the numbing of our young by Hollywood's glamorization of violence along with video games, etc., has increased that chance many times. I'm, unfortunately, on the side of the homeowner. It's a consequence of the loss of morals by society in general.



I guess I agree although there is statistical data that would suggest
the opposite is true in terms of having access to firearms.

I found some data that covers 1973 to 2012 (39 years).

The percentage of households with one or more firearms has decreased
over that period from 49.1 percent in 1973 to 34.4 percent in 2012.
The percentage peaked in 1974 at 54 percent and the lowest was 2010 at
32.3 percent.

So, again, I put the blame solely on the lack of parenting.


I wonder where they got that data. I've never been asked how many firearms I own on any census or
survey I can remember. I'll bet there are a whole hell of a lot of unregistered, illegal handguns
floating around our big problem cities that aren't included in those households.

On 1/17/2014 9:27 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 17 Jan 2014 20:31:27 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 1/17/2014 8:09 PM, wrote:
On Friday, January 17, 2014 8:00:09 PM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:

50 years ago when I was about that age if I ever got caught with some
friends entering a vacant building, I'd probably be hauled down to the
police station along with my friends and all of the parents, read the
riot act by the cop on duty and then sent home to face the real
punishment at the hands of my old man.

The difference is, 50 years ago the chance of you and your friends packing heat is very low. As we've all seen, the chance of it now, with the numbing of our young by Hollywood's glamorization of violence along with video games, etc., has increased that chance many times. I'm, unfortunately, on the side of the homeowner. It's a consequence of the loss of morals by society in general.



I guess I agree although there is statistical data that would suggest
the opposite is true in terms of having access to firearms.

I found some data that covers 1973 to 2012 (39 years).

The percentage of households with one or more firearms has decreased
over that period from 49.1 percent in 1973 to 34.4 percent in 2012.
The percentage peaked in 1974 at 54 percent and the lowest was 2010 at
32.3 percent.

So, again, I put the blame solely on the lack of parenting.


I wonder where they got that data. I've never been asked how many firearms I own on any census or
survey I can remember. I'll bet there are a whole hell of a lot of unregistered, illegal handguns
floating around our big problem cities that aren't included in those households.



I found the data I posted at:

http://www.gunpolicy.org/

I don't know where they get their data from but I suspect it's from
random surveys.

In article , says...

On 1/17/2014 7:19 PM, BAR wrote:
In article , says...

Watching Dr. Phil, the story is about four boys, 16 and 17 years old
that decided to rob a vacant home. When they got into the home, it turns
out the owner was home and came out with his gun. The home owner shot
and killed one of the boys. Because of the murder* committed during the
commission of a crime the three living boys were convicted of a murder
and each sentenced to 50 years.

I'm usually pretty hard on people that don't know what's theirs and
what's not, but 50 years for a 16 year old is pretty tough.




*not sure why they keep calling it a murder.

If one of these young men had killed the homeowner they would all be faced with the same
outcome.




50 years ago when I was about that age if I ever got caught with some
friends entering a vacant building, I'd probably be hauled down to the
police station along with my friends and all of the parents, read the
riot act by the cop on duty and then sent home to face the real
punishment at the hands of my old man.

Today you get shot or sent to prison for 50 years.

Is it me or has the concept of parenting and teaching right and wrong
gone out the window? It seems like many young people today have many
anger issues and absolutely no respect for authority, rules, laws or
respect for the property of others.

Parenting now is telling them they are all winners and they can do no wrong.

In article , says...

On Fri, 17 Jan 2014 20:31:27 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 1/17/2014 8:09 PM, wrote:
On Friday, January 17, 2014 8:00:09 PM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:

50 years ago when I was about that age if I ever got caught with some
friends entering a vacant building, I'd probably be hauled down to the
police station along with my friends and all of the parents, read the
riot act by the cop on duty and then sent home to face the real
punishment at the hands of my old man.

The difference is, 50 years ago the chance of you and your friends packing heat is very low. As we've all seen, the chance of it now, with the numbing of our young by Hollywood's glamorization of violence along with video games, etc., has increased that chance many times. I'm, unfortunately, on the side of the homeowner. It's a consequence of the loss of morals by society in general.



I guess I agree although there is statistical data that would suggest
the opposite is true in terms of having access to firearms.

I found some data that covers 1973 to 2012 (39 years).

The percentage of households with one or more firearms has decreased
over that period from 49.1 percent in 1973 to 34.4 percent in 2012.
The percentage peaked in 1974 at 54 percent and the lowest was 2010 at
32.3 percent.

So, again, I put the blame solely on the lack of parenting.


I wonder where they got that data. I've never been asked how many firearms I own on any census or
survey I can remember. I'll bet there are a whole hell of a lot of unregistered, illegal handguns
floating around our big problem cities that aren't included in those households.

Extrapolated from census and other data.

"Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 1/17/2014 9:27 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 17 Jan 2014 20:31:27 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 1/17/2014 8:09 PM, wrote:
On Friday, January 17, 2014 8:00:09 PM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:

50 years ago when I was about that age if I ever got caught with some
friends entering a vacant building, I'd probably be hauled down to the
police station along with my friends and all of the parents, read the
riot act by the cop on duty and then sent home to face the real
punishment at the hands of my old man.

The difference is, 50 years ago the chance of you and your friends
packing heat is very low. As we've all seen, the chance of it now,
with the numbing of our young by Hollywood's glamorization of violence
along with video games, etc., has increased that chance many times.
I'm, unfortunately, on the side of the homeowner. It's a consequence
of the loss of morals by society in general.



I guess I agree although there is statistical data that would suggest
the opposite is true in terms of having access to firearms.

I found some data that covers 1973 to 2012 (39 years).

The percentage of households with one or more firearms has decreased
over that period from 49.1 percent in 1973 to 34.4 percent in 2012.
The percentage peaked in 1974 at 54 percent and the lowest was 2010 at
32.3 percent.

So, again, I put the blame solely on the lack of parenting.


I wonder where they got that data. I've never been asked how many
firearms I own on any census or
survey I can remember. I'll bet there are a whole hell of a lot of
unregistered, illegal handguns
floating around our big problem cities that aren't included in those households.



I found the data I posted at:

http://www.gunpolicy.org/

I don't know where they get their data from but I suspect it's from random surveys.

Most people would not answer the question. There are very few illegal
unregistered weapons in California. Only those "assault weapons" on the
banned list, that people had before the ban, and did not register.
Otherwise, no permit or license is required to own a firearm in this state.
federal and state laws now require a transaction to go though an FFL
holder, but that has only been for some years. When I bought my Rem. 1100,
I bought it at the firearms dealer on 2nd street in downtown San Francisco.
No waiting period for long guns. They wrapped in paper and handed it to
me, and
I walked out the door. The records are not supposed to go to the state!

amdx wrote:
Watching Dr. Phil, the story is about four boys, 16 and 17 years old that
decided to rob a vacant home. When they got into the home, it turns out
the owner was home and came out with his gun. The home owner shot and
killed one of the boys. Because of the murder* committed during the
commission of a crime the three living boys were convicted of a murder
and each sentenced to 50 years.

I'm usually pretty hard on people that don't know what's theirs and
what's not, but 50 years for a 16 year old is pretty tough.




*not sure why they keep calling it a murder.

If it is like California, if a murder is committed during a felony, all are
guilty of murder, not just the one who did the actual killing. Basically
all are guilty of the same crime.

On 1/17/14, 9:24 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 17 Jan 2014 20:00:09 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 1/17/2014 7:19 PM, BAR wrote:
In article , says...

Watching Dr. Phil, the story is about four boys, 16 and 17 years old
that decided to rob a vacant home. When they got into the home, it turns
out the owner was home and came out with his gun. The home owner shot
and killed one of the boys. Because of the murder* committed during the
commission of a crime the three living boys were convicted of a murder
and each sentenced to 50 years.

I'm usually pretty hard on people that don't know what's theirs and
what's not, but 50 years for a 16 year old is pretty tough.




*not sure why they keep calling it a murder.

If one of these young men had killed the homeowner they would all be faced with the same
outcome.




50 years ago when I was about that age if I ever got caught with some
friends entering a vacant building, I'd probably be hauled down to the
police station along with my friends and all of the parents, read the
riot act by the cop on duty and then sent home to face the real
punishment at the hands of my old man.

Today you get shot or sent to prison for 50 years.

Is it me or has the concept of parenting and teaching right and wrong
gone out the window? It seems like many young people today have many
anger issues and absolutely no respect for authority, rules, laws or
respect for the property of others.


Look at 'homicide, dc' or homicide, chicago, or homicide detroit and check out the ages of the
suspects. Very young, most of them.


Look at the ages of your typical young men who are shooting up suburban
schools. "Very young, most of them." Is there a statistically
significant difference between the ages of urban and suburban shooters?
What was wrong with the parents of the Columbine shooters or Adam
Lanza's mother?

The point is, I think, is that there have been a great number of drastic
societal changes since the 1950s, and those changes, *including*
parenting and many, many other factors, have brought us the "shoot 'em
up" society we have today.

Sociology and other "people" sciences reveal many of the questions and
answers.

On Friday, January 17, 2014 8:31:27 PM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 1/17/2014 8:09 PM, wrote:

On Friday, January 17, 2014 8:00:09 PM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:



50 years ago when I was about that age if I ever got caught with some

friends entering a vacant building, I'd probably be hauled down to the

police station along with my friends and all of the parents, read the

riot act by the cop on duty and then sent home to face the real

punishment at the hands of my old man.



The difference is, 50 years ago the chance of you and your friends packing heat is very low. As we've all seen, the chance of it now, with the numbing of our young by Hollywood's glamorization of violence along with video games, etc., has increased that chance many times. I'm, unfortunately, on the side of the homeowner. It's a consequence of the loss of morals by society in general.







I guess I agree although there is statistical data that would suggest

the opposite is true in terms of having access to firearms.



I found some data that covers 1973 to 2012 (39 years).



The percentage of households with one or more firearms has decreased

over that period from 49.1 percent in 1973 to 34.4 percent in 2012.

The percentage peaked in 1974 at 54 percent and the lowest was 2010 at

32.3 percent.



So, again, I put the blame solely on the lack of parenting.

I guess we're saying the same thing. It's not the number of firearms available, but rather the attitude of the people that put their hands on them. You and your friends wouldn't have thought of taking a pistol to that imaginary breakin, much less actually pulling the trigger on another human being.. Unfortunately, many people (not just the young) seem numb to the concept of killing someone being wrong. I agree that's it's lack of parenting, but also think it's repeated exposure as well.

On Fri, 17 Jan 2014 21:41:55 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 1/17/2014 9:27 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 17 Jan 2014 20:31:27 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:


I found some data that covers 1973 to 2012 (39 years).

The percentage of households with one or more firearms has decreased
over that period from 49.1 percent in 1973 to 34.4 percent in 2012.
The percentage peaked in 1974 at 54 percent and the lowest was 2010 at
32.3 percent.

So, again, I put the blame solely on the lack of parenting.


I wonder where they got that data. I've never been asked how many firearms I own on any census or
survey I can remember. I'll bet there are a whole hell of a lot of unregistered, illegal handguns
floating around our big problem cities that aren't included in those households.



I found the data I posted at:

http://www.gunpolicy.org/

I don't know where they get their data from but I suspect it's from
random surveys.

I wonder...could that be due to the population increase over the past 40 years coupled with the
source of the increase? The number of small arms either manufactured or imported during the past 25
years has gone from about 3.7 million to 8.7 million. I suppose DHS accounts for a bunch, but it has
only about 230,000 employees. Even giving each of them a couple guns doesn't account for the growth.

The handgun chart is really weird, showing 5% gains and drops in household possession in two year
periods.

http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/co..._with_handguns

On Fri, 17 Jan 2014 22:58:19 -0500, BAR wrote:

In article , says...

On Fri, 17 Jan 2014 20:31:27 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 1/17/2014 8:09 PM, wrote:
On Friday, January 17, 2014 8:00:09 PM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:

50 years ago when I was about that age if I ever got caught with some
friends entering a vacant building, I'd probably be hauled down to the
police station along with my friends and all of the parents, read the
riot act by the cop on duty and then sent home to face the real
punishment at the hands of my old man.

The difference is, 50 years ago the chance of you and your friends packing heat is very low. As we've all seen, the chance of it now, with the numbing of our young by Hollywood's glamorization of violence along with video games, etc., has increased that chance many times. I'm, unfortunately, on the side of the homeowner. It's a consequence of the loss of morals by society in general.



I guess I agree although there is statistical data that would suggest
the opposite is true in terms of having access to firearms.

I found some data that covers 1973 to 2012 (39 years).

The percentage of households with one or more firearms has decreased
over that period from 49.1 percent in 1973 to 34.4 percent in 2012.
The percentage peaked in 1974 at 54 percent and the lowest was 2010 at
32.3 percent.

So, again, I put the blame solely on the lack of parenting.


I wonder where they got that data. I've never been asked how many firearms I own on any census or
survey I can remember. I'll bet there are a whole hell of a lot of unregistered, illegal handguns
floating around our big problem cities that aren't included in those households.

Extrapolated from census and other data.

I don't remember answering any gun questions on the census. I think I'd remember if I had. Heck, I'm
not that old!