On 1/19/14, 5:51 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jan 2014 17:41:26 -0500, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 1/19/14, 1:46 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jan 2014 12:43:01 -0500, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 1/19/14, 12:37 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jan 2014 11:45:03 -0500, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 1/19/14, 11:12 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jan 2014 10:12:02 -0500, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

The concept of citizens in this country taking on armed governmental
forces is absurd. All the armed citizenry in this county, and there are
lots of citizens with guns in this county, couldn't take on the county
sheriff.

That is absurd if you are talking about more than a few people hiding
out in a cabin.
Our military has not been very successful in stopping asymmetrical
warriors whether it is Vietnam, The Middle East, Africa or South Asia.
They kill a lot of people and win most of the battles but they lose
the war. (much like the Brits in the latter 18th century American
war)..


Hey, there's always hope a large number of righties will start an
insurrection in the United States and get wiped out...it'll definitely
improve the gene pool.

I do not actually believe that we would ever allow a government to get
that oppressive before we enacted a political solution but it would be
the left who ended up organizing the revolution if it did.
I do believe it would come out of a massive financial collapse and the
well intentioned desire to find a strong leader with an agenda that
sounded good in the beginning and then descended into a dictatorship.
Bear in mind every dictator of the last 100 years started with a
socialist agenda. Most have the word "socialist" in the title of their
government.
The only way socialism can exist as a governmental policy is if you
have an overbearing government. (be it the Cubans, Venezuela, the
Soviets or the Nazis)



My Northern European buddies in socialist countries report no problems
with overbearing government.

Your buddies don't even complain of the overbearing taxes? Wow, mine has started doing that big
time. He's also not very happy with providing housing to all the Moroccan and Turkish folks that
have been flooding Holland since the borders went away.

Funny, fifteen-twenty years ago he was very happy with his 'socialist' country. Times have changed.
Good to know your buddies don't mind oppressive taxes.

My Norwegian friend who was seriously
injured in an offshore drilling platform accident was financially
supported and retrained as a teacher and is quite happy with how things
turned out. He didn't lose his house or his healthcare or his pension,
and his kids went to college. In the USA, he'd be out on the street.

Norway would be a great place for you to live. You could get herring prepared in a tremendous
variety of ways - including raw.


Been there, done that.

On a motorcycle trip to Stockholm, we took a ferry from Kiel, Germany to Gotenberg, Sweden. For an
extra 25 Deutsche Marks, we got the buffet on the ferry. One whole counter, about 15 feet long was
devoted solely to herring in its many forms = fried, pickled in various sauces, raw with various
sauces, and so on. What a pig out!

One of our group didn't want to spend the money. The next day, about halfway across Swededn, he got
hungry. We stopped at a little highway diner where he paid about the same amount of money for a
hamburger, fries, and soft drink. Sweden may be a socialist heaven, but it cost me almost $50 to
fill my motorcycle tank and about $5 for a wrapped (the cheap kind) loaf of bread at a supermarket.

But they put on a pretty good motorcycle rally.


No question that prices are higher in Europe for many things, but, on
the other hand, a lot of that comes back to ordinary citizens in terms
of guaranteed vacation time, guaranteed sick leave, a decent retirement,
health care coverage, education, retraining if necessary, et cetera.

My Norwegian friends are middle class. Most of them have nice but
smaller houses than most of us have, and they make do with one car. They
work hard and they are sans the awful worries that plague many
Americans. *Not* spending upwards of $700 billion a year on their
military means there are funds for programs for people.

On Sun, 19 Jan 2014 18:09:44 -0500, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 1/19/14, 5:51 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jan 2014 17:41:26 -0500, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 1/19/14, 1:46 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jan 2014 12:43:01 -0500, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 1/19/14, 12:37 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jan 2014 11:45:03 -0500, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 1/19/14, 11:12 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jan 2014 10:12:02 -0500, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

The concept of citizens in this country taking on armed governmental
forces is absurd. All the armed citizenry in this county, and there are
lots of citizens with guns in this county, couldn't take on the county
sheriff.

That is absurd if you are talking about more than a few people hiding
out in a cabin.
Our military has not been very successful in stopping asymmetrical
warriors whether it is Vietnam, The Middle East, Africa or South Asia.
They kill a lot of people and win most of the battles but they lose
the war. (much like the Brits in the latter 18th century American
war)..


Hey, there's always hope a large number of righties will start an
insurrection in the United States and get wiped out...it'll definitely
improve the gene pool.

I do not actually believe that we would ever allow a government to get
that oppressive before we enacted a political solution but it would be
the left who ended up organizing the revolution if it did.
I do believe it would come out of a massive financial collapse and the
well intentioned desire to find a strong leader with an agenda that
sounded good in the beginning and then descended into a dictatorship.
Bear in mind every dictator of the last 100 years started with a
socialist agenda. Most have the word "socialist" in the title of their
government.
The only way socialism can exist as a governmental policy is if you
have an overbearing government. (be it the Cubans, Venezuela, the
Soviets or the Nazis)



My Northern European buddies in socialist countries report no problems
with overbearing government.

Your buddies don't even complain of the overbearing taxes? Wow, mine has started doing that big
time. He's also not very happy with providing housing to all the Moroccan and Turkish folks that
have been flooding Holland since the borders went away.

Funny, fifteen-twenty years ago he was very happy with his 'socialist' country. Times have changed.
Good to know your buddies don't mind oppressive taxes.

My Norwegian friend who was seriously
injured in an offshore drilling platform accident was financially
supported and retrained as a teacher and is quite happy with how things
turned out. He didn't lose his house or his healthcare or his pension,
and his kids went to college. In the USA, he'd be out on the street.

Norway would be a great place for you to live. You could get herring prepared in a tremendous
variety of ways - including raw.


Been there, done that.

On a motorcycle trip to Stockholm, we took a ferry from Kiel, Germany to Gotenberg, Sweden. For an
extra 25 Deutsche Marks, we got the buffet on the ferry. One whole counter, about 15 feet long was
devoted solely to herring in its many forms = fried, pickled in various sauces, raw with various
sauces, and so on. What a pig out!

One of our group didn't want to spend the money. The next day, about halfway across Swededn, he got
hungry. We stopped at a little highway diner where he paid about the same amount of money for a
hamburger, fries, and soft drink. Sweden may be a socialist heaven, but it cost me almost $50 to
fill my motorcycle tank and about $5 for a wrapped (the cheap kind) loaf of bread at a supermarket.

But they put on a pretty good motorcycle rally.


No question that prices are higher in Europe for many things, but, on
the other hand, a lot of that comes back to ordinary citizens in terms
of guaranteed vacation time, guaranteed sick leave, a decent retirement,
health care coverage, education, retraining if necessary, et cetera.

My Norwegian friends are middle class. Most of them have nice but
smaller houses than most of us have, and they make do with one car. They
work hard and they are sans the awful worries that plague many
Americans. *Not* spending upwards of $700 billion a year on their
military means there are funds for programs for people.

Thank God the USA whipped the Germans, eh? And it's probably a good thing we kept the Fulda Gap
closed for all those years afterwards. I suppose learning Chinese would be no problem for one with
your education.

On 1/19/14, 6:16 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jan 2014 18:09:44 -0500, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 1/19/14, 5:51 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jan 2014 17:41:26 -0500, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 1/19/14, 1:46 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jan 2014 12:43:01 -0500, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 1/19/14, 12:37 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jan 2014 11:45:03 -0500, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 1/19/14, 11:12 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jan 2014 10:12:02 -0500, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

The concept of citizens in this country taking on armed governmental
forces is absurd. All the armed citizenry in this county, and there are
lots of citizens with guns in this county, couldn't take on the county
sheriff.

That is absurd if you are talking about more than a few people hiding
out in a cabin.
Our military has not been very successful in stopping asymmetrical
warriors whether it is Vietnam, The Middle East, Africa or South Asia.
They kill a lot of people and win most of the battles but they lose
the war. (much like the Brits in the latter 18th century American
war)..


Hey, there's always hope a large number of righties will start an
insurrection in the United States and get wiped out...it'll definitely
improve the gene pool.

I do not actually believe that we would ever allow a government to get
that oppressive before we enacted a political solution but it would be
the left who ended up organizing the revolution if it did.
I do believe it would come out of a massive financial collapse and the
well intentioned desire to find a strong leader with an agenda that
sounded good in the beginning and then descended into a dictatorship.
Bear in mind every dictator of the last 100 years started with a
socialist agenda. Most have the word "socialist" in the title of their
government.
The only way socialism can exist as a governmental policy is if you
have an overbearing government. (be it the Cubans, Venezuela, the
Soviets or the Nazis)



My Northern European buddies in socialist countries report no problems
with overbearing government.

Your buddies don't even complain of the overbearing taxes? Wow, mine has started doing that big
time. He's also not very happy with providing housing to all the Moroccan and Turkish folks that
have been flooding Holland since the borders went away.

Funny, fifteen-twenty years ago he was very happy with his 'socialist' country. Times have changed.
Good to know your buddies don't mind oppressive taxes.

My Norwegian friend who was seriously
injured in an offshore drilling platform accident was financially
supported and retrained as a teacher and is quite happy with how things
turned out. He didn't lose his house or his healthcare or his pension,
and his kids went to college. In the USA, he'd be out on the street.

Norway would be a great place for you to live. You could get herring prepared in a tremendous
variety of ways - including raw.


Been there, done that.

On a motorcycle trip to Stockholm, we took a ferry from Kiel, Germany to Gotenberg, Sweden. For an
extra 25 Deutsche Marks, we got the buffet on the ferry. One whole counter, about 15 feet long was
devoted solely to herring in its many forms = fried, pickled in various sauces, raw with various
sauces, and so on. What a pig out!

One of our group didn't want to spend the money. The next day, about halfway across Swededn, he got
hungry. We stopped at a little highway diner where he paid about the same amount of money for a
hamburger, fries, and soft drink. Sweden may be a socialist heaven, but it cost me almost $50 to
fill my motorcycle tank and about $5 for a wrapped (the cheap kind) loaf of bread at a supermarket.

But they put on a pretty good motorcycle rally.


No question that prices are higher in Europe for many things, but, on
the other hand, a lot of that comes back to ordinary citizens in terms
of guaranteed vacation time, guaranteed sick leave, a decent retirement,
health care coverage, education, retraining if necessary, et cetera.

My Norwegian friends are middle class. Most of them have nice but
smaller houses than most of us have, and they make do with one car. They
work hard and they are sans the awful worries that plague many
Americans. *Not* spending upwards of $700 billion a year on their
military means there are funds for programs for people.

Thank God the USA whipped the Germans, eh? And it's probably a good thing we kept the Fulda Gap
closed for all those years afterwards. I suppose learning Chinese would be no problem for one with
your education.



The United States along with many allies "whipped" the Germans, and
without the sort of military budget this country has today. I have to
admit, the Cold War against the Sovs was a wonderful way for the
military establishment and contractors in both countries to keep lots of
men in uniform and lots of corporations in the black.

We're spending far, far too much on the military. We should start
cutting it in half over a 10 year period, and then see if we can cut it
in half again.

As for learning Chinese, it would be a wonderful idea for American
schools and American kids to have as mandatory the teaching of a second
language. It was that way back when I was in high school...if you were
in the "college prep" high school divisions, you were required to take
four years of foreign language. I don't recall all the offerings, but
among them were German, Russian, Italian, French, Spanish, et cetera.
Many of us took two languages. I took Latin and Russian, the latter
because many of my relatives here spoke Russian and I could practice
with them. I remember the Russian teacher, a fellow named Mr. Crosby.

Chinese would be a very worthwhile addition, considering the importance
of China in today's world.

In article ,
says...

In article ,
says...

On Sun, 19 Jan 2014 13:05:28 -0600, Boating All Out
wrote:

Name one law against things people want that has not caused a massive
underground enterprise to supply that item and short circuit any
effort to regulate it..

Incandescent light bulbs.

There does not seem to be any shortage of 100w incandescent bulbs
If it really became something people wanted in any quantity, they
would be coming in by the truck load.

http://www.elightbulbs.com/Halco-063...UOOg odHSYAtg


There's no shortage because virtually nobody wants them.

Would you rather have a incandescent bulb or a potential super-fund clean-up CFL?



I think "people want" is variable.
People in Mass wanted gun registration. They got it.
It'll happen federally, when the times comes.
Guns don't care about state borders.

Again, how relevant is gun registration if more than half of the guns
never get registered and nobody who plans to use them criminally ever
registers one.

We've been through this. It's simple mechanisms that get it done.
The gun owning population is much less than that of car owners.
How many cars are unregistered?
If it's decided to register guns, it will be done.
You will be dead before it happens, so you won't hve a say.
That's part of getting it done. Old farts dying off.

"shall not be infringed!"

On 1/19/14, 7:12 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jan 2014 15:16:43 -0600, Boating All Out
wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Sun, 19 Jan 2014 13:05:28 -0600, Boating All Out
wrote:

Name one law against things people want that has not caused a massive
underground enterprise to supply that item and short circuit any
effort to regulate it..

Incandescent light bulbs.

There does not seem to be any shortage of 100w incandescent bulbs
If it really became something people wanted in any quantity, they
would be coming in by the truck load.

http://www.elightbulbs.com/Halco-063...UOOg odHSYAtg


There's no shortage because virtually nobody wants them.


Are you moving the goal post?

I think "people want" is variable.
People in Mass wanted gun registration. They got it.
It'll happen federally, when the times comes.
Guns don't care about state borders.

Again, how relevant is gun registration if more than half of the guns
never get registered and nobody who plans to use them criminally ever
registers one.

We've been through this. It's simple mechanisms that get it done.
The gun owning population is much less than that of car owners.
How many cars are unregistered?
If it's decided to register guns, it will be done.
You will be dead before it happens, so you won't hve a say.
That's part of getting it done. Old farts dying off.

Cars are registered because the states like getting the money. It
certainly does not affect the 40,000 people who die in cars one way or
another..
Criminals don't seem to have any trouble using cars for their crimes.


Let's do nothing about gun violence because nothing can be done. Got it.

In article ,
says...

In article ,
says...

On Sun, 19 Jan 2014 15:16:43 -0600, Boating All Out wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Sun, 19 Jan 2014 13:05:28 -0600, Boating All Out
wrote:

Name one law against things people want that has not caused a massive
underground enterprise to supply that item and short circuit any
effort to regulate it..

Incandescent light bulbs.

There does not seem to be any shortage of 100w incandescent bulbs
If it really became something people wanted in any quantity, they
would be coming in by the truck load.

http://www.elightbulbs.com/Halco-063...UOOg odHSYAtg


There's no shortage because virtually nobody wants them.

I think "people want" is variable.
People in Mass wanted gun registration. They got it.
It'll happen federally, when the times comes.
Guns don't care about state borders.

Again, how relevant is gun registration if more than half of the guns
never get registered and nobody who plans to use them criminally ever
registers one.

We've been through this. It's simple mechanisms that get it done.
The gun owning population is much less than that of car owners.
How many cars are unregistered?
If it's decided to register guns, it will be done.
You will be dead before it happens, so you won't hve a say.
That's part of getting it done. Old farts dying off.

Uh, I'd venture to say that an unregistered car is much easier to spot than an unregistered gun. No?


Registration begins upon sale. Nothing to do with size.

How is the transfer from the legal owner to the illegal owner occur? Does the criminal go
down to the police station and register the gun he just stole from someone?

I've got a small .38 Chief's Special, unregistered anywhere. How would it get 'done' unless I did
it, or someone searched my house and found it?

Up to you. If it's the law, it's your choice to break it.

When are we going to require the registering of other arms? The second amendment is not just
about guns.

On 1/19/2014 6:05 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jan 2014 14:07:50 -0600, amdx wrote:

On 1/19/2014 1:37 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jan 2014 13:05:28 -0600, Boating All Out
wrote:

Name one law against things people want that has not caused a massive
underground enterprise to supply that item and short circuit any
effort to regulate it..

Incandescent light bulbs.

There does not seem to be any shortage of 100w incandescent bulbs
If it really became something people wanted in any quantity, they
would be coming in by the truck load.

http://www.elightbulbs.com/Halco-063...UOOg odHSYAtg


But, it's not a standard 100 Watt light bulb.
You not seeing them at Walmart, Kmart etc.
Mikek

He said "incandescent" That is an incandescent bulb. Your trusty old
A19, non halogen.

But as I said, it's not a standard 100 Watt bulb.
It is a 130 Volt bulb, there's an exception for them
at least for now.
Mikek

On 1/19/2014 8:42 AM, F.O.A.D. wrote:
On 1/19/14, 9:31 AM, amdx wrote:
On 1/18/2014 4:20 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Sat, 18 Jan 2014 15:38:19 -0600, Boating All Out
wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Sat, 18 Jan 2014 10:20:37 -0600, Boating All Out
wrote:

In article ,
says...


I wonder...could that be due to the population increase over the
past 40 years coupled with the
source of the increase? The number of small arms either
manufactured or imported during the past 25
years has gone from about 3.7 million to 8.7 million. I suppose
DHS accounts for a bunch, but it has
only about 230,000 employees. Even giving each of them a couple
guns doesn't account for the growth.

The handgun chart is really weird, showing 5% gains and drops in
household possession in two year
periods.

http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/co..._with_handguns



You can't get accurate stats on guns. Violates the 2nd.

In what way?

Unless guns are universally registered, it's just guessing.
Do you think universal registration violates the 2nd?
I have no opinion on that. You might have an opinion.
But the reason for lack of registration is the 2nd.
In any case, statistics on ownership are garbage.

I don't think universal registration, in and of itself, violates the
2nd.


I do think that universal registration makes universal confiscation
much more feasible.

I think that's what make it violate the 2nd .
The founders gave us the right to gun ownership so we would be able to
fight oppressive government. If you give THAT government the ability to
confiscate those guns, the 2nd is not in effect.
Mikek

My thread has drifted!





What the founders did with the Second Amendment was express their
disdain for a standing army, and it was an outgrowth of the Brits
housing uniformed troops in the homes of the colonists. What they
created was a mechanism for a trained and armed citizen militia that
could easily be organized when necessary. That trained and armed militia
these days might be the National Guard. It certainly isn't the
untrained, undisciplined rabble of firearms owners.

The concept of individuals here successfully pursuing a military action
against local, state, or national government is laughable, at best.


It happened once, I think it was 1947.

On 1/19/2014 8:05 PM, amdx wrote:
On 1/19/2014 8:42 AM, F.O.A.D. wrote:

The concept of individuals here successfully pursuing a military action
against local, state, or national government is laughable, at best.


It happened once, I think it was 1947.


AUGUST 2 1946

http://www.constitution.org/mil/tn/batathen.htm

Mikek

On 1/19/2014 11:43 AM, F.O.A.D. wrote:
On 1/19/14, 12:37 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jan 2014 11:45:03 -0500, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 1/19/14, 11:12 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jan 2014 10:12:02 -0500, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

The concept of citizens in this country taking on armed governmental
forces is absurd. All the armed citizenry in this county, and there
are
lots of citizens with guns in this county, couldn't take on the county
sheriff.

That is absurd if you are talking about more than a few people hiding
out in a cabin.
Our military has not been very successful in stopping asymmetrical
warriors whether it is Vietnam, The Middle East, Africa or South Asia.
They kill a lot of people and win most of the battles but they lose
the war. (much like the Brits in the latter 18th century American
war)..


Hey, there's always hope a large number of righties will start an
insurrection in the United States and get wiped out...it'll definitely
improve the gene pool.

I do not actually believe that we would ever allow a government to get
that oppressive before we enacted a political solution but it would be
the left who ended up organizing the revolution if it did.
I do believe it would come out of a massive financial collapse and the
well intentioned desire to find a strong leader with an agenda that
sounded good in the beginning and then descended into a dictatorship.
Bear in mind every dictator of the last 100 years started with a
socialist agenda. Most have the word "socialist" in the title of their
government.
The only way socialism can exist as a governmental policy is if you
have an overbearing government. (be it the Cubans, Venezuela, the
Soviets or the Nazis)



My Northern European buddies in socialist countries report no problems
with overbearing government. My Norwegian friend who was seriously
injured in an offshore drilling platform accident was financially
supported and retrained as a teacher and is quite happy with how things
turned out. He didn't lose his house or his healthcare or his pension,
and his kids went to college. In the USA, he'd be out on the street.

I doubt it, he'd sue win several million, spend it foolishly,
oh, then be out on the street. Guess you're right!
But he had fun for a short time.
Mikek