On 1/19/14, 11:01 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jan 2014 09:42:51 -0500, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

What the founders did with the Second Amendment was express their
disdain for a standing army, and it was an outgrowth of the Brits
housing uniformed troops in the homes of the colonists. What they
created was a mechanism for a trained and armed citizen militia that
could easily be organized when necessary. That trained and armed militia
these days might be the National Guard. It certainly isn't the
untrained, undisciplined rabble of firearms owners.

The concept of individuals here successfully pursuing a military action
against local, state, or national government is laughable, at best.


The SCOTUS disagreed with that in Heller and ruled that the right to
bear arms was an individual right.
In the end, the Constitution says what the SCOTUS most recently said
it says..


That's correct. I don't like the Heller decision, but the Supremes are
the final authority, subject to their changing their minds.

On 1/19/14, 11:12 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jan 2014 10:12:02 -0500, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

The concept of citizens in this country taking on armed governmental
forces is absurd. All the armed citizenry in this county, and there are
lots of citizens with guns in this county, couldn't take on the county
sheriff.

That is absurd if you are talking about more than a few people hiding
out in a cabin.
Our military has not been very successful in stopping asymmetrical
warriors whether it is Vietnam, The Middle East, Africa or South Asia.
They kill a lot of people and win most of the battles but they lose
the war. (much like the Brits in the latter 18th century American
war)..


Hey, there's always hope a large number of righties will start an
insurrection in the United States and get wiped out...it'll definitely
improve the gene pool.

In article ,
says...

On Sun, 19 Jan 2014 10:12:02 -0500, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

The concept of citizens in this country taking on armed governmental
forces is absurd. All the armed citizenry in this county, and there are
lots of citizens with guns in this county, couldn't take on the county
sheriff.

That is absurd if you are talking about more than a few people hiding
out in a cabin.
Our military has not been very successful in stopping asymmetrical
warriors whether it is Vietnam, The Middle East, Africa or South Asia.
They kill a lot of people and win most of the battles but they lose
the war. (much like the Brits in the latter 18th century American
war)..

What are you smoking?
When America undergoes "asymmetrical" warfare it'll be a zombie
apocalypse.
He said "this country."
The Branch Davidians and Weather Underground didn't have much success.
Anybody is welcome to start an insurrection.
See how far you get.

In article ,
says...

On Sat, 18 Jan 2014 17:20:16 -0500, Poco Loco
wrote:


I don't think universal registration, in and of itself, violates the 2nd.

The only constitutional way they can do that is to make it a tax.

That is what the AKA "ban" on machine guns is. NFA34 imposes a $200
tax on a machine gun (more than a Thompson cost in 1934). The fly in
that ointment is you need to pass a background check and get the local
cops to sign off before they will let you buy that tax stamp ... and
it is a lick it and stick it stamp on a BATF form 4.,

Be careful what you are agreeing to.
Do you really want the IRS collecting a tax on every gun you own every
year?

Talk about law breakers!
At the very least, a whole lot more guns would flood the underground
market.

There you go.
gfretwell has spoken on the Constitution.
And "predicted."

On 1/19/14, 12:37 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jan 2014 11:45:03 -0500, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 1/19/14, 11:12 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jan 2014 10:12:02 -0500, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

The concept of citizens in this country taking on armed governmental
forces is absurd. All the armed citizenry in this county, and there are
lots of citizens with guns in this county, couldn't take on the county
sheriff.

That is absurd if you are talking about more than a few people hiding
out in a cabin.
Our military has not been very successful in stopping asymmetrical
warriors whether it is Vietnam, The Middle East, Africa or South Asia.
They kill a lot of people and win most of the battles but they lose
the war. (much like the Brits in the latter 18th century American
war)..


Hey, there's always hope a large number of righties will start an
insurrection in the United States and get wiped out...it'll definitely
improve the gene pool.

I do not actually believe that we would ever allow a government to get
that oppressive before we enacted a political solution but it would be
the left who ended up organizing the revolution if it did.
I do believe it would come out of a massive financial collapse and the
well intentioned desire to find a strong leader with an agenda that
sounded good in the beginning and then descended into a dictatorship.
Bear in mind every dictator of the last 100 years started with a
socialist agenda. Most have the word "socialist" in the title of their
government.
The only way socialism can exist as a governmental policy is if you
have an overbearing government. (be it the Cubans, Venezuela, the
Soviets or the Nazis)



My Northern European buddies in socialist countries report no problems
with overbearing government. My Norwegian friend who was seriously
injured in an offshore drilling platform accident was financially
supported and retrained as a teacher and is quite happy with how things
turned out. He didn't lose his house or his healthcare or his pension,
and his kids went to college. In the USA, he'd be out on the street.

On Sunday, January 19, 2014 11:43:01 AM UTC-6, F.O.A.D. wrote:
My Norwegian friend who was seriously

injured in an offshore drilling platform accident was financially

supported and retrained as a teacher and is quite happy with how things

turned out. He didn't lose his house or his healthcare or his pension,

and his kids went to college. In the USA, he'd be out on the street.

No, in the USA he'd have lawyers sue the tar out of the company he worked for, AND companies associated with the company he worked for.. probably be awarded millions, and not have to do much of anything.

On Sun, 19 Jan 2014 13:03:37 -0500, wrote:

On Sun, 19 Jan 2014 11:39:51 -0600, Boating All Out
wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Sat, 18 Jan 2014 17:20:16 -0500, Poco Loco
wrote:


I don't think universal registration, in and of itself, violates the 2nd.

The only constitutional way they can do that is to make it a tax.

That is what the AKA "ban" on machine guns is. NFA34 imposes a $200
tax on a machine gun (more than a Thompson cost in 1934). The fly in
that ointment is you need to pass a background check and get the local
cops to sign off before they will let you buy that tax stamp ... and
it is a lick it and stick it stamp on a BATF form 4.,

Be careful what you are agreeing to.
Do you really want the IRS collecting a tax on every gun you own every
year?

Talk about law breakers!
At the very least, a whole lot more guns would flood the underground
market.

There you go.
gfretwell has spoken on the Constitution.
And "predicted."

I did not speak for the Constitution, the SCOTUS did and that was how
they determined that NFA34 was legal.
GCA68 was simply an extension of NFA34

Many laws that were not structured that way were struck down by
Heller.

As for the underground gun economy, it flourishes the most in places
where the laws are strictest. When will we ever learn the lesson of
prohibition?
Name one law against things people want that has not caused a massive
underground enterprise to supply that item and short circuit any
effort to regulate it..


The federal anti-marijuana laws!

:)

On Sun, 19 Jan 2014 12:43:01 -0500, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 1/19/14, 12:37 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jan 2014 11:45:03 -0500, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 1/19/14, 11:12 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jan 2014 10:12:02 -0500, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

The concept of citizens in this country taking on armed governmental
forces is absurd. All the armed citizenry in this county, and there are
lots of citizens with guns in this county, couldn't take on the county
sheriff.

That is absurd if you are talking about more than a few people hiding
out in a cabin.
Our military has not been very successful in stopping asymmetrical
warriors whether it is Vietnam, The Middle East, Africa or South Asia.
They kill a lot of people and win most of the battles but they lose
the war. (much like the Brits in the latter 18th century American
war)..


Hey, there's always hope a large number of righties will start an
insurrection in the United States and get wiped out...it'll definitely
improve the gene pool.

I do not actually believe that we would ever allow a government to get
that oppressive before we enacted a political solution but it would be
the left who ended up organizing the revolution if it did.
I do believe it would come out of a massive financial collapse and the
well intentioned desire to find a strong leader with an agenda that
sounded good in the beginning and then descended into a dictatorship.
Bear in mind every dictator of the last 100 years started with a
socialist agenda. Most have the word "socialist" in the title of their
government.
The only way socialism can exist as a governmental policy is if you
have an overbearing government. (be it the Cubans, Venezuela, the
Soviets or the Nazis)



My Northern European buddies in socialist countries report no problems
with overbearing government.

Your buddies don't even complain of the overbearing taxes? Wow, mine has started doing that big
time. He's also not very happy with providing housing to all the Moroccan and Turkish folks that
have been flooding Holland since the borders went away.

Funny, fifteen-twenty years ago he was very happy with his 'socialist' country. Times have changed.
Good to know your buddies don't mind oppressive taxes.

My Norwegian friend who was seriously
injured in an offshore drilling platform accident was financially
supported and retrained as a teacher and is quite happy with how things
turned out. He didn't lose his house or his healthcare or his pension,
and his kids went to college. In the USA, he'd be out on the street.

Norway would be a great place for you to live. You could get herring prepared in a tremendous
variety of ways - including raw.

In article ,
says...

On Sun, 19 Jan 2014 11:39:51 -0600, Boating All Out
wrote:

There you go.
gfretwell has spoken on the Constitution.
And "predicted."

I did not speak for the Constitution, the SCOTUS did and that was how
they determined that NFA34 was legal.
GCA68 was simply an extension of NFA34

Many laws that were not structured that way were struck down by
Heller.


And a new court may say otherhwise.

As for the underground gun economy, it flourishes the most in places
where the laws are strictest. When will we ever learn the lesson of
prohibition?
Name one law against things people want that has not caused a massive
underground enterprise to supply that item and short circuit any
effort to regulate it..

Incandescent light bulbs. I think "people want" is variable.
People in Mass wanted gun registration. They got it.
It'll happen federally, when the times comes.
Guns don't care about state borders.

On Sun, 19 Jan 2014 13:05:28 -0600, Boating All Out wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Sun, 19 Jan 2014 11:39:51 -0600, Boating All Out
wrote:

There you go.
gfretwell has spoken on the Constitution.
And "predicted."

I did not speak for the Constitution, the SCOTUS did and that was how
they determined that NFA34 was legal.
GCA68 was simply an extension of NFA34

Many laws that were not structured that way were struck down by
Heller.


And a new court may say otherhwise.

As for the underground gun economy, it flourishes the most in places
where the laws are strictest. When will we ever learn the lesson of
prohibition?
Name one law against things people want that has not caused a massive
underground enterprise to supply that item and short circuit any
effort to regulate it..

Incandescent light bulbs. I think "people want" is variable.
People in Mass wanted gun registration. They got it.
It'll happen federally, when the times comes.
Guns don't care about state borders.

Passing a law doesn't get guns registered, except for those guns whose owners want to register them.
The people in Mass may have wanted gun registration, but all the guns didn't come in and register
themselves.

Homicides have been dropping in Boston, but...

"Despite that encouraging news, the almost-year-end statistics reveal a troubling reality: Although
police continue to confiscate guns, the street supply remains steady enough for overall gun violence
to continue unabated. The number of 2013 shootings by Dec. 22 is almost exactly what it was last
year: 246."

http://tinyurl.com/lr88lbk