On 1/20/14, 11:22 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 20 Jan 2014 08:25:35 -0500, Hank wrote:

I'm saving about $50 a month on my electric bill without changing any
thing except light bulbs

Saving $50 a month?
Bull**** ... unless your house is lit like a used car lot all the
time.
That is 333 KWH per month (at 15c a KWH)
Assuming you turn the lights off when you go to bed that is about 2000
watts of light you save every HOUR (based on 5,5 hours between sundown
and bed time)

You really had 2500 watts of light on all evening? (your LEDs and CFLs
still draw something around 20%)

I think you have fallen for the hype.



Take it easy, fella. You'll blow an artery.

On 1/20/2014 10:49 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 20 Jan 2014 05:30:52 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 1/19/2014 11:43 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jan 2014 20:44:31 -0600, Califbill
wrote:

I installed two, 60 watt LED bulbs in my loft studio ceiling. They are
shaped like regular old light bulbs and illuminate in the same,
non-directional pattern. I like them. Plenty of light, doesn't have any
funny color and I have them controlled by a regular dimmer designed for
incandescents. No problems dimming them although it doesn't like
controlling only one. Not enough load.

The LEDs may be OK. But the mini fluorescent. More expensive, do not last
any longer and are toxic waste. Ow many land fills will become superfund
sites with the bulbs?

My problem with LEDS and CFLs is they do not change color when you dim
them. The warmer colors you get from a dimmed incandescent is the
whole point.
I know they could do this with a color changing LED but at what cost?

If I am happy with a $1.50 lamp that will last almost forever running
at 75% power, why would I want a $50+ LED that uses almost as much
power "dimmed" as it does full bright and may actually fail sooner.



I never noticed that the LED bulbs are not "warmer" color-wise when
dimmed. I guess that's not very important to me. The room just gets
darker.

The whole idea behind these types of bulbs is energy conservation, not
romantic lighting. Replacing one 60 or 75 watt incandescent bulb with a
LED bulb of equivalent lighting may not be huge, but replacing tens or
hundreds of millions across the country sure is.

Lighting makes up about 13 percent of average residential electricity
consumption. Replacing the old bulbs as they burn out with LED
equivalents makes sense to me. We've slowly been doing that over the
past year or so and also replacing any of those stupid CFL type lights
we have with LED types. The built-in ballast used in CFLs seem to pop
as often or even more so than the incandescent filaments did.

The LED bulbs I bought are made by Cree. They don't cost $50. They are
$12.95. 800 lumen, dimmable, 25,000 hour life expectancy, 10 year
warranty and consume 9.5 watts.

That is not a color changing LED.

I guess I do like the idea of the light getting softer as it dims be
that "romantic" or just a less harsh color.

I am not convinced a CFL or a "smart" LED actually uses a
significantly lower current when dimmed either. That is particularly
true of the CFL since the ballast load is still there.


Depending on the type, I am not convinced that traditional dimmers
designed for incandescent lights significantly reduce the amount of
power being consumed either. Some are phase angled SCRs, some are zero
crossing SCRs and some are nothing but rheostats.

I realize the Cree isn't color changing. Never said it was. I said it
is available in two color temperatures, one being a bright white, the
other a warmer temp.

Programmable color fixtures are becoming very popular however in home
construction and retrofits. A guy I know is a master electrician and
his whole business is focused on light programmable lighting, often
controlled by whole home entertainment systems or even iPads. People
like the idea of changing the static lighting "ambiance" in a room or
even have the lights generating a mult-color light show to accompany
music or other audio-visual effects.

On 1/20/2014 11:11 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 20 Jan 2014 08:15:27 -0500, Hank wrote:


If I am happy with a $1.50 lamp that will last almost forever running
at 75% power, why would I want a $50+ LED that uses almost as much
power "dimmed" as it does full bright and may actually fail sooner.

It seems we have another luddite in our midst.

I have a pretty good mix of different types of lamps in my house. I am
OK using CFLs or LEDs in places where they are appropriate but that is
not everywhere.
Lighting is not that big a part of my electric bill anyway. I use
motion lights virtually everywhere and we don't have that many lights
on around here if we are not right there. Other than specific task
lighting, it is pretty dark here compared to what I see at most
people's house.
The most prevalent bulb here is a 15w "sign" bulb and most are on a
dimmer.

http://cdn3.volusion.com/pgvz3.tq439...os/L-107-2.jpg

As we age, mu wife and I both need more lighting to see better.
We save about $50 a month since switching to LED Seasonally it's 15 to
30%. To me, that's significant.

On 1/20/2014 9:16 AM, F.O.A.D. wrote:
On 1/20/14, 9:00 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 1/20/2014 7:51 AM, F.O.A.D. wrote:
On 1/20/14, 5:30 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 1/19/2014 11:43 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jan 2014 20:44:31 -0600, Califbill
wrote:

I installed two, 60 watt LED bulbs in my loft studio ceiling. They
are
shaped like regular old light bulbs and illuminate in the same,
non-directional pattern. I like them. Plenty of light, doesn't have
any
funny color and I have them controlled by a regular dimmer designed
for
incandescents. No problems dimming them although it doesn't like
controlling only one. Not enough load.

The LEDs may be OK. But the mini fluorescent. More expensive, do
not last
any longer and are toxic waste. Ow many land fills will become
superfund
sites with the bulbs?

My problem with LEDS and CFLs is they do not change color when you dim
them. The warmer colors you get from a dimmed incandescent is the
whole point.
I know they could do this with a color changing LED but at what cost?

If I am happy with a $1.50 lamp that will last almost forever running
at 75% power, why would I want a $50+ LED that uses almost as much
power "dimmed" as it does full bright and may actually fail sooner.



I never noticed that the LED bulbs are not "warmer" color-wise when
dimmed. I guess that's not very important to me. The room just gets
darker.

The whole idea behind these types of bulbs is energy conservation, not
romantic lighting. Replacing one 60 or 75 watt incandescent bulb
with a
LED bulb of equivalent lighting may not be huge, but replacing tens or
hundreds of millions across the country sure is.

Lighting makes up about 13 percent of average residential electricity
consumption. Replacing the old bulbs as they burn out with LED
equivalents makes sense to me. We've slowly been doing that over the
past year or so and also replacing any of those stupid CFL type lights
we have with LED types. The built-in ballast used in CFLs seem to pop
as often or even more so than the incandescent filaments did.

The LED bulbs I bought are made by Cree. They don't cost $50. They
are
$12.95. 800 lumen, dimmable, 25,000 hour life expectancy, 10 year
warranty and consume 9.5 watts.


I bought a few of those Cree bulbs at Home Despot. They seem to be
working well. Haven't noticed any difference in the color of the room
lighting.


I confess I was a bit of a skeptic until I tried one. They work fine,
to me. Proof will be in the pudding in terms of how long they work.




The package I have says it will last 22.8 years at three hours a day
until the bulb burns out. In 22.8 years, I suspect the bulb between my
ears will dim, if not burn out entirely.

I read somewhere...maybe it is a false memory...that you shouldn't put
two of these bulbs in a multi-bulb fixture. But there's nothing on the
packaging that says that.

I'd like to find some "candleabra" LED bulbs. We have a zillion of them
in the house and in our outdoor garage and porch fixtures.

Your 22.8 years has expired.

On 1/20/2014 11:22 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 20 Jan 2014 08:25:35 -0500, Hank wrote:

I'm saving about $50 a month on my electric bill without changing any
thing except light bulbs

Saving $50 a month?
Bull**** ... unless your house is lit like a used car lot all the
time.
That is 333 KWH per month (at 15c a KWH)
Assuming you turn the lights off when you go to bed that is about 2000
watts of light you save every HOUR (based on 5,5 hours between sundown
and bed time)

You really had 2500 watts of light on all evening? (your LEDs and CFLs
still draw something around 20%)

I think you have fallen for the hype.


I have 10 lamps that burn dusk to dawn. We use some lighting during the
daytime also.

I have spreadsheeted my KWH, Cost per KWK, and total cost. I'm
comfortable with what I stated

wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jan 2014 21:04:57 -0600, Califbill
wrote:

We seem to have a lot more gun violence these days is very correct! Why
more these days? Maybe because we have turned in to a welfare society?
Because we opened a war on drugs, and made drugs very, very profitable?

Actually we "seem" to have more gun violence because the media has
raised it to the lead story every night.
The reality is that crime is down, gun or otherwise with a lot more
guns out there.

Crime may be down, but more gun violence in that remaining crime. I also
look at it from a 70 year olds viewpoint. Back to my youth, and we had
fist fights not gun fights.

On 1/20/14, 12:43 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 20 Jan 2014 11:40:03 -0500, Hank wrote:

On 1/20/2014 11:22 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 20 Jan 2014 08:25:35 -0500, Hank wrote:

I'm saving about $50 a month on my electric bill without changing any
thing except light bulbs

Saving $50 a month?
Bull**** ... unless your house is lit like a used car lot all the
time.
That is 333 KWH per month (at 15c a KWH)
Assuming you turn the lights off when you go to bed that is about 2000
watts of light you save every HOUR (based on 5,5 hours between sundown
and bed time)

You really had 2500 watts of light on all evening? (your LEDs and CFLs
still draw something around 20%)

I think you have fallen for the hype.


I have 10 lamps that burn dusk to dawn. We use some lighting during the
daytime also.

I have spreadsheeted my KWH, Cost per KWK, and total cost. I'm
comfortable with what I stated

10 lights from dusk to dawn? Let me guess, the Stalag 17 look .

If you are burning 11,000 watt hours of light a day we can see your
house from space.
That is as much as my whole house air handler strip heaters use when I
have the heat on for an hour running full blast.

You need to reevaluate your lighting plan.



We have 8 60 watt bulbs burning outside from dark to dawn...two each in
two garage side lights, and two each in two front porch lights. Most of
our neighbors in our little subdivision do the same. The claim is the
lighting helps deter burglars but I think it just lights the locks so
they are easy to pick. Maybe the lights also make the houses look
occupied even when they are not. Break into an occupied house and you're
stepping up from burglary. Do it here and you probably will leave in a
body bag.

On 1/20/2014 11:46 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 20 Jan 2014 10:00:12 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

Next time you go to Home Depot or Lowe's, check out the LED bulbs I
mentioned. There are at least *two* color temps available, one is
"white" and the other is designed to be more of a warmer color.

You could run 6 of them for the cost of running one conventional 60 watt
bulb.

The CFLs are horrible.

Scientific American did an article a while ago about how "green" these
new bulbs are and they fail that test. You may be saving money but you
are polluting the planet. Fortunately it is Asia that is being
polluted
****'m.


We should all be careful of any product that requires special disposal
procedures when it fails. I'll bet 90 percent of the consumers ignore
them and just toss 'em in the trash.

Going back to LED lights for a moment ...

I just came back from our local hardware store to pick up an interior
lock set and noticed they had a new display of LED bulbs made by GE. The
price was only $6.99. One was of a conventional bulb size and I was
reading the specs on the packaging when the store manager came up to me.

The new rating system is lumens, not watts. No where on the GE
packaging did it say anything like, "Compare to 60 watt" or anything.

Turns out the one I was looking at for $6.99 was only 95 lumen. That's
about equal to a 2.5 watt conventional bulb. Worthless, unless purely
for decorative purposes. The store manager became curious and opened
one of them and tried it out in a light fixture. He agreed. Worthless.

The ones I recently installed (Cree) are rated at 800 lumens (ea.) Big
difference.

On 1/20/14, 12:52 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 1/20/2014 11:46 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 20 Jan 2014 10:00:12 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

Next time you go to Home Depot or Lowe's, check out the LED bulbs I
mentioned. There are at least *two* color temps available, one is
"white" and the other is designed to be more of a warmer color.

You could run 6 of them for the cost of running one conventional 60 watt
bulb.

The CFLs are horrible.

Scientific American did an article a while ago about how "green" these
new bulbs are and they fail that test. You may be saving money but you
are polluting the planet. Fortunately it is Asia that is being
polluted
****'m.


We should all be careful of any product that requires special disposal
procedures when it fails. I'll bet 90 percent of the consumers ignore
them and just toss 'em in the trash.

Going back to LED lights for a moment ...

I just came back from our local hardware store to pick up an interior
lock set and noticed they had a new display of LED bulbs made by GE. The
price was only $6.99. One was of a conventional bulb size and I was
reading the specs on the packaging when the store manager came up to me.

The new rating system is lumens, not watts. No where on the GE
packaging did it say anything like, "Compare to 60 watt" or anything.

Turns out the one I was looking at for $6.99 was only 95 lumen. That's
about equal to a 2.5 watt conventional bulb. Worthless, unless purely
for decorative purposes. The store manager became curious and opened
one of them and tried it out in a light fixture. He agreed. Worthless.

The ones I recently installed (Cree) are rated at 800 lumens (ea.) Big
difference.


I found this little equivalency chart. Don't know if it is reasonably
accurate:


Lumens to watts table
for incandescent bulbs

light bulb
watts Fluorecent
/ LED

lumens incan Flourescent
375 lm 25 W 6.23 W
600 lm 40 W 10 W
900 lm 60 W 15 W
1125 lm 75 W 18.75 W
1500 lm 100 W 25 W
2250 lm 150 W 37.5 W
3000 lm 200 W 50 W


The three way LEDs are really expensive. As in, Yikes!

On 1/20/2014 12:50 PM, F.O.A.D. wrote:
On 1/20/14, 12:43 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 20 Jan 2014 11:40:03 -0500, Hank wrote:

On 1/20/2014 11:22 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 20 Jan 2014 08:25:35 -0500, Hank wrote:

I'm saving about $50 a month on my electric bill without changing any
thing except light bulbs

Saving $50 a month?
Bull**** ... unless your house is lit like a used car lot all the
time.
That is 333 KWH per month (at 15c a KWH)
Assuming you turn the lights off when you go to bed that is about 2000
watts of light you save every HOUR (based on 5,5 hours between sundown
and bed time)

You really had 2500 watts of light on all evening? (your LEDs and CFLs
still draw something around 20%)

I think you have fallen for the hype.


I have 10 lamps that burn dusk to dawn. We use some lighting during the
daytime also.

I have spreadsheeted my KWH, Cost per KWK, and total cost. I'm
comfortable with what I stated

10 lights from dusk to dawn? Let me guess, the Stalag 17 look .

If you are burning 11,000 watt hours of light a day we can see your
house from space.
That is as much as my whole house air handler strip heaters use when I
have the heat on for an hour running full blast.

You need to reevaluate your lighting plan.



We have 8 60 watt bulbs burning outside from dark to dawn...two each in
two garage side lights, and two each in two front porch lights. Most of
our neighbors in our little subdivision do the same. The claim is the
lighting helps deter burglars but I think it just lights the locks so
they are easy to pick. Maybe the lights also make the houses look
occupied even when they are not. Break into an occupied house and you're
stepping up from burglary. Do it here and you probably will leave in a
body bag.


That's not bad but still like having a 1500 watt space heater on for a
third of that time. If you replaced them all with the 800 lumen LEDs
your total power consumption would drop to that of a single, 75 watt bulb.

We haven't gone crazy with replacements at our house but when a bulb
burns out or a CFL dies, we replace it with an LED.