On 1/20/2014 8:17 AM, KC wrote:
On 1/19/2014 11:43 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jan 2014 20:44:31 -0600, Califbill
wrote:

I installed two, 60 watt LED bulbs in my loft studio ceiling. They are
shaped like regular old light bulbs and illuminate in the same,
non-directional pattern. I like them. Plenty of light, doesn't have
any
funny color and I have them controlled by a regular dimmer designed for
incandescents. No problems dimming them although it doesn't like
controlling only one. Not enough load.

The LEDs may be OK. But the mini fluorescent. More expensive, do
not last
any longer and are toxic waste. Ow many land fills will become
superfund
sites with the bulbs?

My problem with LEDS and CFLs is they do not change color when you dim
them. The warmer colors you get from a dimmed incandescent is the
whole point.
I know they could do this with a color changing LED but at what cost?

If I am happy with a $1.50 lamp that will last almost forever running
at 75% power, why would I want a $50+ LED that uses almost as much
power "dimmed" as it does full bright and may actually fail sooner.


Because there were lots of "friends of Al Gore" with their hands out for
contracts...


Wouldn't you be interested in reducing your electricity bill by up to 13
percent/month for the next 10 years or more? I was.

On 1/20/2014 9:04 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 1/20/2014 8:17 AM, KC wrote:
On 1/19/2014 11:43 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jan 2014 20:44:31 -0600, Califbill
wrote:

I installed two, 60 watt LED bulbs in my loft studio ceiling. They
are
shaped like regular old light bulbs and illuminate in the same,
non-directional pattern. I like them. Plenty of light, doesn't have
any
funny color and I have them controlled by a regular dimmer designed
for
incandescents. No problems dimming them although it doesn't like
controlling only one. Not enough load.

The LEDs may be OK. But the mini fluorescent. More expensive, do
not last
any longer and are toxic waste. Ow many land fills will become
superfund
sites with the bulbs?

My problem with LEDS and CFLs is they do not change color when you dim
them. The warmer colors you get from a dimmed incandescent is the
whole point.
I know they could do this with a color changing LED but at what cost?

If I am happy with a $1.50 lamp that will last almost forever running
at 75% power, why would I want a $50+ LED that uses almost as much
power "dimmed" as it does full bright and may actually fail sooner.


Because there were lots of "friends of Al Gore" with their hands out for
contracts...


Wouldn't you be interested in reducing your electricity bill by up to 13
percent/month for the next 10 years or more? I was.



I would love to.. but I just can't see in my home with warm white
light.. I need daylight or cool colors or I just get a headache all day.
Most of the small energy saving bulbs are warm colors...

Don't get me wrong, we are all cfl and other energy saving throughout
the house, even the back porch lights... But I have to run two or three
lamps in a room just to see so I am not sure how much savings we really
get....

On 1/20/2014 8:20 AM, KC wrote:
On 1/20/2014 5:30 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 1/19/2014 11:43 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jan 2014 20:44:31 -0600, Califbill
wrote:

I installed two, 60 watt LED bulbs in my loft studio ceiling. They
are
shaped like regular old light bulbs and illuminate in the same,
non-directional pattern. I like them. Plenty of light, doesn't have
any
funny color and I have them controlled by a regular dimmer designed
for
incandescents. No problems dimming them although it doesn't like
controlling only one. Not enough load.

The LEDs may be OK. But the mini fluorescent. More expensive, do
not last
any longer and are toxic waste. Ow many land fills will become
superfund
sites with the bulbs?

My problem with LEDS and CFLs is they do not change color when you dim
them. The warmer colors you get from a dimmed incandescent is the
whole point.
I know they could do this with a color changing LED but at what cost?

If I am happy with a $1.50 lamp that will last almost forever running
at 75% power, why would I want a $50+ LED that uses almost as much
power "dimmed" as it does full bright and may actually fail sooner.



I never noticed that the LED bulbs are not "warmer" color-wise when
dimmed. I guess that's not very important to me. The room just gets
darker.

The whole idea behind these types of bulbs is energy conservation, not
romantic lighting. Replacing one 60 or 75 watt incandescent bulb with a
LED bulb of equivalent lighting may not be huge, but replacing tens or
hundreds of millions across the country sure is.

Lighting makes up about 13 percent of average residential electricity
consumption. Replacing the old bulbs as they burn out with LED
equivalents makes sense to me. We've slowly been doing that over the
past year or so and also replacing any of those stupid CFL type lights
we have with LED types. The built-in ballast used in CFLs seem to pop
as often or even more so than the incandescent filaments did.

The LED bulbs I bought are made by Cree. They don't cost $50. They are
$12.95. 800 lumen, dimmable, 25,000 hour life expectancy, 10 year
warranty and consume 9.5 watts.


Yeah, but what's 800 lumen? How many do you need to run to make up for
one 100 watt incandescent? I have CFL's in our home and I can't see ****
half of the time. Most of the lamps are rated for wattages that alllow
you to see with real bulbs. Not so much with the fake Chinese bulbs...


Spring $12.95 for one and try it in a place that you currently use a
single, 60, 75 or 100 watt bulb. You might be surprised after a while.
The LEDs are not like the CFL types. Just make sure you get the
omnidirectional Cree. They also make directional types. Also, I am
pretty sure they have at least two color temperatures available. I used
the "white" light version. I haven't tried the other color temp.
Maybe if I did I might feel more romantic.

We replaced four incandescent floodlights on the outside of the barn
with LED types. Not as much light as with the much higher wattage
incandescent bulbs but still very adequate for seeing where you are
going at night.

On 1/20/14, 9:00 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 1/20/2014 7:51 AM, F.O.A.D. wrote:
On 1/20/14, 5:30 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 1/19/2014 11:43 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jan 2014 20:44:31 -0600, Califbill
wrote:

I installed two, 60 watt LED bulbs in my loft studio ceiling. They
are
shaped like regular old light bulbs and illuminate in the same,
non-directional pattern. I like them. Plenty of light, doesn't have
any
funny color and I have them controlled by a regular dimmer designed
for
incandescents. No problems dimming them although it doesn't like
controlling only one. Not enough load.

The LEDs may be OK. But the mini fluorescent. More expensive, do
not last
any longer and are toxic waste. Ow many land fills will become
superfund
sites with the bulbs?

My problem with LEDS and CFLs is they do not change color when you dim
them. The warmer colors you get from a dimmed incandescent is the
whole point.
I know they could do this with a color changing LED but at what cost?

If I am happy with a $1.50 lamp that will last almost forever running
at 75% power, why would I want a $50+ LED that uses almost as much
power "dimmed" as it does full bright and may actually fail sooner.



I never noticed that the LED bulbs are not "warmer" color-wise when
dimmed. I guess that's not very important to me. The room just gets
darker.

The whole idea behind these types of bulbs is energy conservation, not
romantic lighting. Replacing one 60 or 75 watt incandescent bulb with a
LED bulb of equivalent lighting may not be huge, but replacing tens or
hundreds of millions across the country sure is.

Lighting makes up about 13 percent of average residential electricity
consumption. Replacing the old bulbs as they burn out with LED
equivalents makes sense to me. We've slowly been doing that over the
past year or so and also replacing any of those stupid CFL type lights
we have with LED types. The built-in ballast used in CFLs seem to pop
as often or even more so than the incandescent filaments did.

The LED bulbs I bought are made by Cree. They don't cost $50. They are
$12.95. 800 lumen, dimmable, 25,000 hour life expectancy, 10 year
warranty and consume 9.5 watts.


I bought a few of those Cree bulbs at Home Despot. They seem to be
working well. Haven't noticed any difference in the color of the room
lighting.


I confess I was a bit of a skeptic until I tried one. They work fine,
to me. Proof will be in the pudding in terms of how long they work.




The package I have says it will last 22.8 years at three hours a day
until the bulb burns out. In 22.8 years, I suspect the bulb between my
ears will dim, if not burn out entirely.

I read somewhere...maybe it is a false memory...that you shouldn't put
two of these bulbs in a multi-bulb fixture. But there's nothing on the
packaging that says that.

I'd like to find some "candleabra" LED bulbs. We have a zillion of them
in the house and in our outdoor garage and porch fixtures.

On 1/20/2014 8:25 AM, Hank wrote:
On 1/20/2014 5:30 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 1/19/2014 11:43 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jan 2014 20:44:31 -0600, Califbill
wrote:

I installed two, 60 watt LED bulbs in my loft studio ceiling. They
are
shaped like regular old light bulbs and illuminate in the same,
non-directional pattern. I like them. Plenty of light, doesn't have
any
funny color and I have them controlled by a regular dimmer designed
for
incandescents. No problems dimming them although it doesn't like
controlling only one. Not enough load.

The LEDs may be OK. But the mini fluorescent. More expensive, do
not last
any longer and are toxic waste. Ow many land fills will become
superfund
sites with the bulbs?

My problem with LEDS and CFLs is they do not change color when you dim
them. The warmer colors you get from a dimmed incandescent is the
whole point.
I know they could do this with a color changing LED but at what cost?

If I am happy with a $1.50 lamp that will last almost forever running
at 75% power, why would I want a $50+ LED that uses almost as much
power "dimmed" as it does full bright and may actually fail sooner.



I never noticed that the LED bulbs are not "warmer" color-wise when
dimmed. I guess that's not very important to me. The room just gets
darker.

The whole idea behind these types of bulbs is energy conservation, not
romantic lighting. Replacing one 60 or 75 watt incandescent bulb with a
LED bulb of equivalent lighting may not be huge, but replacing tens or
hundreds of millions across the country sure is.

Lighting makes up about 13 percent of average residential electricity
consumption. Replacing the old bulbs as they burn out with LED
equivalents makes sense to me. We've slowly been doing that over the
past year or so and also replacing any of those stupid CFL type lights
we have with LED types. The built-in ballast used in CFLs seem to pop
as often or even more so than the incandescent filaments did.

The LED bulbs I bought are made by Cree. They don't cost $50. They are
$12.95. 800 lumen, dimmable, 25,000 hour life expectancy, 10 year
warranty and consume 9.5 watts.

I just realized that the gov't. ban on incands. was created to guide the
thrifty among us to stop making phony excuses for an inferior product.
I'm saving about $50 a month on my electric bill without changing any
thing except light bulbs. And that's not counting replacement cost. My
replacement cost last year was $10. (one bulb)
You need to relinquish your "Luddite" status. There are those here more
deserving.


I just need to see it for myself sometimes. I had my doubts about LED
type lighting but Cree and Phillips have obviously made some major
breakthoughs. Jury is still out on how long they last, but the energy
savings reflected on your monthly bill is worth the experiment.

Believe it or not, one of the reasons I decided to investigate them was
a result of searching for stage lighting for the new performance venue I
was in involved with. The old PAR-64 type stage lights with mylar color
filters are quickly becoming a thing of the past, replaced with very
powerful and bright LED array lights that can be programmed to generate
any color imaginable by controlling and mixing the LED output colors.
These are very high powered LEDs, arranged in a pod and are every bit as
bright as the 300 or 500 watt single incandescent bulbs they are
replacing. They also draw a tiny fraction of the power and generate
very little heat compared to the bulbs they are replacing.

Residential, multi-color LED lighting in homes is a growing industry as
well. You can change colors, even program sequences, within a room or
rooms.

On 1/20/2014 9:14 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 1/20/2014 8:20 AM, KC wrote:
On 1/20/2014 5:30 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 1/19/2014 11:43 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jan 2014 20:44:31 -0600, Califbill
wrote:

I installed two, 60 watt LED bulbs in my loft studio ceiling. They
are
shaped like regular old light bulbs and illuminate in the same,
non-directional pattern. I like them. Plenty of light, doesn't have
any
funny color and I have them controlled by a regular dimmer designed
for
incandescents. No problems dimming them although it doesn't like
controlling only one. Not enough load.

The LEDs may be OK. But the mini fluorescent. More expensive, do
not last
any longer and are toxic waste. Ow many land fills will become
superfund
sites with the bulbs?

My problem with LEDS and CFLs is they do not change color when you dim
them. The warmer colors you get from a dimmed incandescent is the
whole point.
I know they could do this with a color changing LED but at what cost?

If I am happy with a $1.50 lamp that will last almost forever running
at 75% power, why would I want a $50+ LED that uses almost as much
power "dimmed" as it does full bright and may actually fail sooner.



I never noticed that the LED bulbs are not "warmer" color-wise when
dimmed. I guess that's not very important to me. The room just gets
darker.

The whole idea behind these types of bulbs is energy conservation, not
romantic lighting. Replacing one 60 or 75 watt incandescent bulb with a
LED bulb of equivalent lighting may not be huge, but replacing tens or
hundreds of millions across the country sure is.

Lighting makes up about 13 percent of average residential electricity
consumption. Replacing the old bulbs as they burn out with LED
equivalents makes sense to me. We've slowly been doing that over the
past year or so and also replacing any of those stupid CFL type lights
we have with LED types. The built-in ballast used in CFLs seem to pop
as often or even more so than the incandescent filaments did.

The LED bulbs I bought are made by Cree. They don't cost $50. They are
$12.95. 800 lumen, dimmable, 25,000 hour life expectancy, 10 year
warranty and consume 9.5 watts.


Yeah, but what's 800 lumen? How many do you need to run to make up for
one 100 watt incandescent? I have CFL's in our home and I can't see ****
half of the time. Most of the lamps are rated for wattages that alllow
you to see with real bulbs. Not so much with the fake Chinese bulbs...


Spring $12.95 for one and try it in a place that you currently use a
single, 60, 75 or 100 watt bulb. You might be surprised after a while.
The LEDs are not like the CFL types. Just make sure you get the
omnidirectional Cree. They also make directional types. Also, I am
pretty sure they have at least two color temperatures available. I used
the "white" light version. I haven't tried the other color temp. Maybe
if I did I might feel more romantic.

We replaced four incandescent floodlights on the outside of the barn
with LED types. Not as much light as with the much higher wattage
incandescent bulbs but still very adequate for seeing where you are
going at night.

I will look into it as we are trying to get our electric bill down...
"Omnidirectional Cree"... Ok, don't know what it is, but I will look for
it in Lowes today when we are there...

On 1/20/2014 9:27 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 1/20/2014 8:25 AM, Hank wrote:
On 1/20/2014 5:30 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 1/19/2014 11:43 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jan 2014 20:44:31 -0600, Califbill
wrote:

I installed two, 60 watt LED bulbs in my loft studio ceiling. They
are
shaped like regular old light bulbs and illuminate in the same,
non-directional pattern. I like them. Plenty of light, doesn't have
any
funny color and I have them controlled by a regular dimmer designed
for
incandescents. No problems dimming them although it doesn't like
controlling only one. Not enough load.

The LEDs may be OK. But the mini fluorescent. More expensive, do
not last
any longer and are toxic waste. Ow many land fills will become
superfund
sites with the bulbs?

My problem with LEDS and CFLs is they do not change color when you dim
them. The warmer colors you get from a dimmed incandescent is the
whole point.
I know they could do this with a color changing LED but at what cost?

If I am happy with a $1.50 lamp that will last almost forever running
at 75% power, why would I want a $50+ LED that uses almost as much
power "dimmed" as it does full bright and may actually fail sooner.



I never noticed that the LED bulbs are not "warmer" color-wise when
dimmed. I guess that's not very important to me. The room just gets
darker.

The whole idea behind these types of bulbs is energy conservation, not
romantic lighting. Replacing one 60 or 75 watt incandescent bulb with a
LED bulb of equivalent lighting may not be huge, but replacing tens or
hundreds of millions across the country sure is.

Lighting makes up about 13 percent of average residential electricity
consumption. Replacing the old bulbs as they burn out with LED
equivalents makes sense to me. We've slowly been doing that over the
past year or so and also replacing any of those stupid CFL type lights
we have with LED types. The built-in ballast used in CFLs seem to pop
as often or even more so than the incandescent filaments did.

The LED bulbs I bought are made by Cree. They don't cost $50. They are
$12.95. 800 lumen, dimmable, 25,000 hour life expectancy, 10 year
warranty and consume 9.5 watts.

I just realized that the gov't. ban on incands. was created to guide the
thrifty among us to stop making phony excuses for an inferior product.
I'm saving about $50 a month on my electric bill without changing any
thing except light bulbs. And that's not counting replacement cost. My
replacement cost last year was $10. (one bulb)
You need to relinquish your "Luddite" status. There are those here more
deserving.


I just need to see it for myself sometimes. I had my doubts about LED
type lighting but Cree and Phillips have obviously made some major
breakthoughs. Jury is still out on how long they last, but the energy
savings reflected on your monthly bill is worth the experiment.

Believe it or not, one of the reasons I decided to investigate them was
a result of searching for stage lighting for the new performance venue I
was in involved with. The old PAR-64 type stage lights with mylar color
filters are quickly becoming a thing of the past, replaced with very
powerful and bright LED array lights that can be programmed to generate
any color imaginable by controlling and mixing the LED output colors.
These are very high powered LEDs, arranged in a pod and are every bit as
bright as the 300 or 500 watt single incandescent bulbs they are
replacing. They also draw a tiny fraction of the power and generate
very little heat compared to the bulbs they are replacing.

Residential, multi-color LED lighting in homes is a growing industry as
well. You can change colors, even program sequences, within a room or
rooms.





I am not sure if it's the same technology but in the mid eighties I saw
Hall and Oates. They had some brand new, super top secret color changing
spots by SoundCo if I remember correctly. At the time they were the talk
of the lighting industry...

On 1/20/2014 9:11 AM, KC wrote:
On 1/20/2014 9:04 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 1/20/2014 8:17 AM, KC wrote:
On 1/19/2014 11:43 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jan 2014 20:44:31 -0600, Califbill
wrote:

I installed two, 60 watt LED bulbs in my loft studio ceiling. They
are
shaped like regular old light bulbs and illuminate in the same,
non-directional pattern. I like them. Plenty of light, doesn't have
any
funny color and I have them controlled by a regular dimmer designed
for
incandescents. No problems dimming them although it doesn't like
controlling only one. Not enough load.

The LEDs may be OK. But the mini fluorescent. More expensive, do
not last
any longer and are toxic waste. Ow many land fills will become
superfund
sites with the bulbs?

My problem with LEDS and CFLs is they do not change color when you dim
them. The warmer colors you get from a dimmed incandescent is the
whole point.
I know they could do this with a color changing LED but at what cost?

If I am happy with a $1.50 lamp that will last almost forever running
at 75% power, why would I want a $50+ LED that uses almost as much
power "dimmed" as it does full bright and may actually fail sooner.


Because there were lots of "friends of Al Gore" with their hands out for
contracts...


Wouldn't you be interested in reducing your electricity bill by up to 13
percent/month for the next 10 years or more? I was.



I would love to.. but I just can't see in my home with warm white
light.. I need daylight or cool colors or I just get a headache all day.
Most of the small energy saving bulbs are warm colors...

Don't get me wrong, we are all cfl and other energy saving throughout
the house, even the back porch lights... But I have to run two or three
lamps in a room just to see so I am not sure how much savings we really
get....


Next time you go to Home Depot or Lowe's, check out the LED bulbs I
mentioned. There are at least *two* color temps available, one is
"white" and the other is designed to be more of a warmer color.

You could run 6 of them for the cost of running one conventional 60 watt
bulb.

The CFLs are horrible.

On 1/20/2014 9:39 AM, KC wrote:

On 1/20/2014 9:27 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:


Believe it or not, one of the reasons I decided to investigate them was
a result of searching for stage lighting for the new performance venue I
was in involved with. The old PAR-64 type stage lights with mylar color
filters are quickly becoming a thing of the past, replaced with very
powerful and bright LED array lights that can be programmed to generate
any color imaginable by controlling and mixing the LED output colors.
These are very high powered LEDs, arranged in a pod and are every bit as
bright as the 300 or 500 watt single incandescent bulbs they are
replacing. They also draw a tiny fraction of the power and generate
very little heat compared to the bulbs they are replacing.

Residential, multi-color LED lighting in homes is a growing industry as
well. You can change colors, even program sequences, within a room or
rooms.





I am not sure if it's the same technology but in the mid eighties I saw
Hall and Oates. They had some brand new, super top secret color changing
spots by SoundCo if I remember correctly. At the time they were the talk
of the lighting industry...

It's doubtful that whatever they used was like what is now available.
There have been tremendous strides made with solid state, light emitting
diodes in the past few years.

One of my music friends owns the largest backstage equipment rental
company in New England and supplies stage lighting equipment along with
sound systems, amps, guitars, keyboards and B-3 organs to all the major
performance venues in the Boston and surrounding areas.

I was at his warehouse last year because he was donating some equipment
for the performance venue I was building. He showed me all the newer
stage lighting, wall wash and spotlight systems he uses. All are LED
based systems. These are big, industrial systems but use the same basic
technology as the systems available for general consumer use.

Again, the driver is the fractional power they require while still
generating the same level of lighting. The fact that they are
individually programmable is also a huge advancement. One fixture can
generate any color you want and can be controlled by midi or other
programing techniques to generate a light show that compliments a
performance by a band or musician.

On 1/20/2014 10:14 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 1/20/2014 9:39 AM, KC wrote:

On 1/20/2014 9:27 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:


Believe it or not, one of the reasons I decided to investigate them was
a result of searching for stage lighting for the new performance venue I
was in involved with. The old PAR-64 type stage lights with mylar color
filters are quickly becoming a thing of the past, replaced with very
powerful and bright LED array lights that can be programmed to generate
any color imaginable by controlling and mixing the LED output colors.
These are very high powered LEDs, arranged in a pod and are every bit as
bright as the 300 or 500 watt single incandescent bulbs they are
replacing. They also draw a tiny fraction of the power and generate
very little heat compared to the bulbs they are replacing.

Residential, multi-color LED lighting in homes is a growing industry as
well. You can change colors, even program sequences, within a room or
rooms.





I am not sure if it's the same technology but in the mid eighties I saw
Hall and Oates. They had some brand new, super top secret color changing
spots by SoundCo if I remember correctly. At the time they were the talk
of the lighting industry...

It's doubtful that whatever they used was like what is now available.
There have been tremendous strides made with solid state, light emitting
diodes in the past few years.

One of my music friends owns the largest backstage equipment rental
company in New England and supplies stage lighting equipment along with
sound systems, amps, guitars, keyboards and B-3 organs to all the major
performance venues in the Boston and surrounding areas.

I was at his warehouse last year because he was donating some equipment
for the performance venue I was building. He showed me all the newer
stage lighting, wall wash and spotlight systems he uses. All are LED
based systems. These are big, industrial systems but use the same basic
technology as the systems available for general consumer use.

Again, the driver is the fractional power they require while still
generating the same level of lighting. The fact that they are
individually programmable is also a huge advancement. One fixture can
generate any color you want and can be controlled by midi or other
programing techniques to generate a light show that compliments a
performance by a band or musician.




Look into "SoundCo" in the Eighties, or ask your friend. Whatever those
lights were they may have been early led's.... I know the company was
very secretive about them and at the time a company rep accompanied the
systems and "you" were really not allowed to work on one or dis-assemble
them. At the time "the talk" was that if you tried to take one apart,
they were designed to emplode to mask the technology but that was
probably just rock and roll, smoke and mirrors...