Here's an update on my original post. The first lady/robot I spoke with
over there at Boat/US was not very helpful. I called back, spoke with a guy
in underwriting, and I am very satisfied with his response. Here it is:

"Having reviewed your request for Bahamas coverage, I am now able to more
explicitly explain the conditions that you must meet before we are able to
provide a cruising limit that includes the Bahamas.

As your boat is currently rigged (specifically the single outboard and
relatively small size of the vessel), the only way we can insure the vessel
while traveling to and once in the Bahamas, is to issue endorsements to the
current policy on a case by case basis. Whether or not we are able to issue
such an endorsement relies almost exclusively on the number and size of
boats that would be traveling both to and from the Bahamas with you. More
simply put; if you wish to take your boat in its current condition to the
Bahamas, we well require you to cross both ways with a flotilla.

In the event that you re-power your boat with new twin outboards, we will
gladly supply you with year round coverage in and between the Bahamas for an
additional $100 per year.

In regards to Dry Tortugas coverage: your assessment of the language in the
printed cruising limit you received was correct, that is to say, you are
presently covered and have year round access to the Dry Tortugas and
surrounding waters.

I apologize for any inconsistencies that you received from us involving
conditions that must be met, actions that must be performed or minimum boat
size and power to receive Bahamas coverage. Typically, any boat under 30
feet is scrutinized fairly heavily to begin with. The length of your boat,
coupled with the single outboard, placed the vessel in a category of boat
that we do not usually grant access to the Bahamas. We have no exact set of
parameters used to dictate coverage, and it is because of this that you
received conflicting answers over the telephone. However, the upside of not
adhering to precise rules and guidelines is that we are able to make
exceptions for customers."
-------------------------------------------------------------

Boat/US seems like the company that I'll probably remain with thanks to this
well-thought-out response. The only thing that perplexes me is why they
would cover me on a trip to the Dry Tortugas (100+ miles), and not to the
Bahamas (approx. 50 miles from mainland US). Truth be told, I'll probably
not do either unless I repower...but I sure appreciated a decent answer to
the hypothetical.















"NOYB" wrote in message
.net...
I just bought a 25' boat, called my insurance company (State Farm) to
insure
it, and they told me they would not write a policy on a boat stored at a
marina in a "coastal area". Huh? The boat is stored on a rack in a
covered
building. My other boat, a 17' center console, is stored on a trailer at
an
inland storage facility...and the same State Farm agent had no problem
insuring that one.

Soooo....
I called the only other company (Boat US) for which I had the phone number
at that particular moment. They wanted to know where the boat was
primarily
being used (Florida Gulf), but didn't ask where it was stored. I was
happy
how easily the process went over the phone...until I got my "binder".

The cruising limits portion of the binder states: "U.S. Atlantic Coastal
Waters including Florida-Atlantic and Gulf coastal and inland waters
tributary thereto of the U.S. and Canada between St. John, New Brunswick
and
Mobile, Alabama, inclusive."

So I called them and asked "how far out can I go? What is considered
*coastal* waters?"

The agent replied that I could go out as far as I'd like as long as I
didn't
enter another country's terratorial waters.

"Could I go to the Bahamas?" I asked

She replied "No. You only have a single engine"

I asked "Could I get a 2nd engine and then go?"

She said "No. Your boat is under 26'."

I responded "A 43' Torres with a single engine wouldn't qualify?"

She said "Oh no...a 43' boat could go"

I asked "What about the second engine."

She responded "That's only for boats under 26'."

"But I thought you said boats under 26' couldn't go...even with two
engines!" I exclaimed (getting quite agitated now).

She responded "Look. The only way you can go to the Bahamas and still be
convered is if you travel in a flotilla."

I asked "How do you define a *flotilla*?"

"Several boats" she replied.

"Several...meaning me and another?" I asked.

"Nope. You and at least two other boats." she responded.

"What if the other boats are smaller than mine?" I asked

"They have to be longer than yours?"

"Do they qualify even if they all have only one engine? Just
kidding...please fax me a copy of your specific policy on travelling to
other contries' terratorial waters."

This conversation took place two hours ago...and I'm still waiting for the
fax.


Does anybody have any pros/cons/experience with Boat US
comprehensive/liability insurance? Does anybody recommend any other
specific company that might be better to deal with?

NOYB wrote:
Here's an update on my original post. The first lady/robot I spoke with
over there at Boat/US was not very helpful. I called back, spoke with a guy
in underwriting, and I am very satisfied with his response. Here it is:

"Having reviewed your request for Bahamas coverage, I am now able to more
explicitly explain the conditions that you must meet before we are able to
provide a cruising limit that includes the Bahamas.

As your boat is currently rigged (specifically the single outboard and
relatively small size of the vessel), the only way we can insure the vessel
while traveling to and once in the Bahamas, is to issue endorsements to the
current policy on a case by case basis. Whether or not we are able to issue
such an endorsement relies almost exclusively on the number and size of
boats that would be traveling both to and from the Bahamas with you. More
simply put; if you wish to take your boat in its current condition to the
Bahamas, we well require you to cross both ways with a flotilla.

In the event that you re-power your boat with new twin outboards, we will
gladly supply you with year round coverage in and between the Bahamas for an
additional $100 per year.

In regards to Dry Tortugas coverage: your assessment of the language in the
printed cruising limit you received was correct, that is to say, you are
presently covered and have year round access to the Dry Tortugas and
surrounding waters.

I apologize for any inconsistencies that you received from us involving
conditions that must be met, actions that must be performed or minimum boat
size and power to receive Bahamas coverage. Typically, any boat under 30
feet is scrutinized fairly heavily to begin with. The length of your boat,
coupled with the single outboard, placed the vessel in a category of boat
that we do not usually grant access to the Bahamas. We have no exact set of
parameters used to dictate coverage, and it is because of this that you
received conflicting answers over the telephone. However, the upside of not
adhering to precise rules and guidelines is that we are able to make
exceptions for customers."
-------------------------------------------------------------

Boat/US seems like the company that I'll probably remain with thanks to this
well-thought-out response. The only thing that perplexes me is why they
would cover me on a trip to the Dry Tortugas (100+ miles), and not to the
Bahamas (approx. 50 miles from mainland US). Truth be told, I'll probably
not do either unless I repower...but I sure appreciated a decent answer to
the hypothetical.















"NOYB" wrote in message
.net...
I just bought a 25' boat, called my insurance company (State Farm) to
insure
it, and they told me they would not write a policy on a boat stored at a
marina in a "coastal area". Huh? The boat is stored on a rack in a
covered
building. My other boat, a 17' center console, is stored on a trailer at
an
inland storage facility...and the same State Farm agent had no problem
insuring that one.

Soooo....
I called the only other company (Boat US) for which I had the phone number
at that particular moment. They wanted to know where the boat was
primarily
being used (Florida Gulf), but didn't ask where it was stored. I was
happy
how easily the process went over the phone...until I got my "binder".

The cruising limits portion of the binder states: "U.S. Atlantic Coastal
Waters including Florida-Atlantic and Gulf coastal and inland waters
tributary thereto of the U.S. and Canada between St. John, New Brunswick
and
Mobile, Alabama, inclusive."

So I called them and asked "how far out can I go? What is considered
*coastal* waters?"

The agent replied that I could go out as far as I'd like as long as I
didn't
enter another country's terratorial waters.

"Could I go to the Bahamas?" I asked

She replied "No. You only have a single engine"

I asked "Could I get a 2nd engine and then go?"

She said "No. Your boat is under 26'."

I responded "A 43' Torres with a single engine wouldn't qualify?"

She said "Oh no...a 43' boat could go"

I asked "What about the second engine."

She responded "That's only for boats under 26'."

"But I thought you said boats under 26' couldn't go...even with two
engines!" I exclaimed (getting quite agitated now).

She responded "Look. The only way you can go to the Bahamas and still be
convered is if you travel in a flotilla."

I asked "How do you define a *flotilla*?"

"Several boats" she replied.

"Several...meaning me and another?" I asked.

"Nope. You and at least two other boats." she responded.

"What if the other boats are smaller than mine?" I asked

"They have to be longer than yours?"

"Do they qualify even if they all have only one engine? Just
kidding...please fax me a copy of your specific policy on travelling to
other contries' terratorial waters."

This conversation took place two hours ago...and I'm still waiting for the
fax.


Does anybody have any pros/cons/experience with Boat US
comprehensive/liability insurance? Does anybody recommend any other
specific company that might be better to deal with?




I've used BOAT/US for more than 10 years. I've never had to file a
claim, but I know people who have, and they were generally satisfied
with the outcome.

BOAT/US is a broker, and I believe it also engages in general
underwriting. Basically, it has fairly large insurance companies
fronting its paper, and earns a commission off each "sale."

Typically, some of these large insurance companies will not deal direct
with the consumer.



--
__________________________________________________ __________
Email sent to will never reach me.

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
NOYB wrote:
Here's an update on my original post. The first lady/robot I spoke with
over there at Boat/US was not very helpful. I called back, spoke with a
guy
in underwriting, and I am very satisfied with his response. Here it is:

"Having reviewed your request for Bahamas coverage, I am now able to
more
explicitly explain the conditions that you must meet before we are able
to
provide a cruising limit that includes the Bahamas.

As your boat is currently rigged (specifically the single outboard and
relatively small size of the vessel), the only way we can insure the
vessel
while traveling to and once in the Bahamas, is to issue endorsements to
the
current policy on a case by case basis. Whether or not we are able to
issue
such an endorsement relies almost exclusively on the number and size of
boats that would be traveling both to and from the Bahamas with you.
More
simply put; if you wish to take your boat in its current condition to
the
Bahamas, we well require you to cross both ways with a flotilla.

In the event that you re-power your boat with new twin outboards, we
will
gladly supply you with year round coverage in and between the Bahamas
for an
additional $100 per year.

In regards to Dry Tortugas coverage: your assessment of the language in
the
printed cruising limit you received was correct, that is to say, you are
presently covered and have year round access to the Dry Tortugas and
surrounding waters.

I apologize for any inconsistencies that you received from us involving
conditions that must be met, actions that must be performed or minimum
boat
size and power to receive Bahamas coverage. Typically, any boat under
30
feet is scrutinized fairly heavily to begin with. The length of your
boat,
coupled with the single outboard, placed the vessel in a category of
boat
that we do not usually grant access to the Bahamas. We have no exact
set of
parameters used to dictate coverage, and it is because of this that you
received conflicting answers over the telephone. However, the upside of
not
adhering to precise rules and guidelines is that we are able to make
exceptions for customers."
-------------------------------------------------------------

Boat/US seems like the company that I'll probably remain with thanks to
this
well-thought-out response. The only thing that perplexes me is why they
would cover me on a trip to the Dry Tortugas (100+ miles), and not to
the
Bahamas (approx. 50 miles from mainland US). Truth be told, I'll
probably
not do either unless I repower...but I sure appreciated a decent answer
to
the hypothetical.















"NOYB" wrote in message
.net...
I just bought a 25' boat, called my insurance company (State Farm) to
insure
it, and they told me they would not write a policy on a boat stored at
a
marina in a "coastal area". Huh? The boat is stored on a rack in a
covered
building. My other boat, a 17' center console, is stored on a trailer
at
an
inland storage facility...and the same State Farm agent had no problem
insuring that one.

Soooo....
I called the only other company (Boat US) for which I had the phone
number
at that particular moment. They wanted to know where the boat was
primarily
being used (Florida Gulf), but didn't ask where it was stored. I was
happy
how easily the process went over the phone...until I got my "binder".

The cruising limits portion of the binder states: "U.S. Atlantic
Coastal
Waters including Florida-Atlantic and Gulf coastal and inland waters
tributary thereto of the U.S. and Canada between St. John, New
Brunswick
and
Mobile, Alabama, inclusive."

So I called them and asked "how far out can I go? What is considered
*coastal* waters?"

The agent replied that I could go out as far as I'd like as long as I
didn't
enter another country's terratorial waters.

"Could I go to the Bahamas?" I asked

She replied "No. You only have a single engine"

I asked "Could I get a 2nd engine and then go?"

She said "No. Your boat is under 26'."

I responded "A 43' Torres with a single engine wouldn't qualify?"

She said "Oh no...a 43' boat could go"

I asked "What about the second engine."

She responded "That's only for boats under 26'."

"But I thought you said boats under 26' couldn't go...even with two
engines!" I exclaimed (getting quite agitated now).

She responded "Look. The only way you can go to the Bahamas and still
be
convered is if you travel in a flotilla."

I asked "How do you define a *flotilla*?"

"Several boats" she replied.

"Several...meaning me and another?" I asked.

"Nope. You and at least two other boats." she responded.

"What if the other boats are smaller than mine?" I asked

"They have to be longer than yours?"

"Do they qualify even if they all have only one engine? Just
kidding...please fax me a copy of your specific policy on travelling to
other contries' terratorial waters."

This conversation took place two hours ago...and I'm still waiting for
the
fax.


Does anybody have any pros/cons/experience with Boat US
comprehensive/liability insurance? Does anybody recommend any other
specific company that might be better to deal with?




I've used BOAT/US for more than 10 years. I've never had to file a
claim, but I know people who have, and they were generally satisfied
with the outcome.

BOAT/US is a broker, and I believe it also engages in general
underwriting. Basically, it has fairly large insurance companies
fronting its paper, and earns a commission off each "sale."

Typically, some of these large insurance companies will not deal direct
with the consumer.

I wonder who truly *underwrites* the policies for them. The guy I spoke
with had for a title under his name "Marine Insurance Underwriting".

Nevertheless, I'll stick with 'em unless I hear some real negatives from
anybody that *has* tried to file a claim with them. I'm more than ****ed at
State Farm, however. I've been with them for as long as I've been old
enough to write a check and have had something worth insuring. The *only*
claim that I've ever even been party to against State Farm was when my dad's
and my boat was stolen. The boat was in his name and insured through him,
but we both had contents on board. We had to file through our individual
homeowner's policies for the contents. They, of course, applied his $1000
deductible and my $500 deductible to the $2000 total claim...and then
depreciated the remaining $500 worth of equipment down to $167. State Farm
sucks and I really don't know why I've even stayed with them up until now.
Their refusal to write a policy for my boat may have been the proverbial
straw that broke the camel's back. I'm shopping my coverage on everything
starting tomorrow.

NOYB wrote:

I wonder who truly *underwrites* the policies for them. The guy I spoke
with had for a title under his name "Marine Insurance Underwriting".


Are you asking who takes the risk...or who decides whether the risk is
worth taking?

An underwriter typically assesses the risks in a particular piece of
impending business. Or are you asking who actually pays if a claim
occurs and is accepted?

BOAT/US probably does most of its own underwriting, but calls in
specialists when needed, such as for a very high value yacht. I know for
a fact it places its insurance with several companies.


--
__________________________________________________ __________
Email sent to will never reach me.

The Dry Tortugas is a US national park and, therefore, US waters. The Bahamas
are not. You should have asked about Puerto Rico or Guam. I wonder what their
rule book says about that, provided you can enter those areas without crossing
another country's territorial waters.

Next stop -- St. Croix!

Dan


Selective quoting follows...


NOYB wrote:


Boat/US seems like the company that I'll probably remain with thanks to this
well-thought-out response. The only thing that perplexes me is why they
would cover me on a trip to the Dry Tortugas (100+ miles), and not to the
Bahamas (approx. 50 miles from mainland US). Truth be told, I'll probably
not do either unless I repower...but I sure appreciated a decent answer to
the hypothetical.


The cruising limits portion of the binder states: "U.S. Atlantic Coastal
Waters including Florida-Atlantic and Gulf coastal and inland waters
tributary thereto of the U.S. and Canada between St. John, New Brunswick

and

Mobile, Alabama, inclusive."

So I called them and asked "how far out can I go? What is considered
*coastal* waters?"

The agent replied that I could go out as far as I'd like as long as I

didn't

enter another country's terratorial waters.

I don't think Puerto Rico and Guam fall under the description of "Atlantic
and Gulf coastal waters". In fact, as my policy is written, it seems I
couldn't tow the boat and use it in California. I wonder if I could trailer
it to a land-locked, non-tributary lake?



"Dan Krueger" wrote in message
ink.net...
The Dry Tortugas is a US national park and, therefore, US waters. The
Bahamas
are not. You should have asked about Puerto Rico or Guam. I wonder what
their
rule book says about that, provided you can enter those areas without
crossing
another country's territorial waters.

Next stop -- St. Croix!

Dan


Selective quoting follows...


NOYB wrote:


Boat/US seems like the company that I'll probably remain with thanks to
this
well-thought-out response. The only thing that perplexes me is why they
would cover me on a trip to the Dry Tortugas (100+ miles), and not to
the
Bahamas (approx. 50 miles from mainland US). Truth be told, I'll
probably
not do either unless I repower...but I sure appreciated a decent answer
to
the hypothetical.


The cruising limits portion of the binder states: "U.S. Atlantic Coastal
Waters including Florida-Atlantic and Gulf coastal and inland waters
tributary thereto of the U.S. and Canada between St. John, New Brunswick

and

Mobile, Alabama, inclusive."

So I called them and asked "how far out can I go? What is considered
*coastal* waters?"

The agent replied that I could go out as far as I'd like as long as I

didn't

enter another country's terratorial waters.

NOYB,
The only answer I can think of is that there are islands that you could
take shelter on a trip to the Tortugas, plus there is quite a bit of boat
traffic on this route compared to the Bahamas. Just a guess on my part.
Paul

"NOYB" wrote in message
k.net...
Deleted

Boat/US seems like the company that I'll probably remain with thanks to
this
well-thought-out response. The only thing that perplexes me is why they
would cover me on a trip to the Dry Tortugas (100+ miles), and not to the
Bahamas (approx. 50 miles from mainland US). Truth be told, I'll probably
not do either unless I repower...but I sure appreciated a decent answer to
the hypothetical.

Deleted

The islands that can give you shelter on the way to the Dry Tortugas are no
closer than the nearest islands in the bahamas. The underwriter did mention
the gulfstream several times.

"If you lost power in the Gulfstream, you would be up by the Carolina's
before anybody knew you were missing. Not a good situation in a 25' open
boat."

I guess that's probably the best rationale argument for the discrepancy.




"Paul Schilter" paulschilter@comcast,dot,net wrote in message
...
NOYB,
The only answer I can think of is that there are islands that you
could
take shelter on a trip to the Tortugas, plus there is quite a bit of boat
traffic on this route compared to the Bahamas. Just a guess on my part.
Paul

"NOYB" wrote in message
k.net...
Deleted

Boat/US seems like the company that I'll probably remain with thanks to
this
well-thought-out response. The only thing that perplexes me is why they
would cover me on a trip to the Dry Tortugas (100+ miles), and not to
the
Bahamas (approx. 50 miles from mainland US). Truth be told, I'll
probably
not do either unless I repower...but I sure appreciated a decent answer
to
the hypothetical.

Deleted

On Tue, 14 Oct 2003 21:15:46 GMT, "NOYB" wrote:
"If you lost power in the Gulfstream, you would be up by the Carolina's
before anybody knew you were missing. Not a good situation in a 25' open
boat."

I guess that's probably the best rationale argument for the discrepancy.

===========================

I agree. The gulfstream is also known for its severe and
unpredictable weather.