On Thu, 27 Dec 2012 12:28:40 -0500, JustWait wrote:

On 12/27/2012 12:27 PM, GuzzisRule wrote:
On Thu, 27 Dec 2012 09:03:51 -0500, ESAD wrote:

On 12/27/12 8:49 AM, GuzzisRule wrote:
On Thu, 27 Dec 2012 08:35:15 -0500, ESAD wrote:

On 12/27/12 8:33 AM, GuzzisRule wrote:
On Thu, 27 Dec 2012 07:58:17 -0500, JustWait wrote:

On 12/27/2012 7:53 AM, GuzzisRule wrote:
On Wed, 26 Dec 2012 18:14:53 -0500, JustWait wrote:

On 12/26/2012 5:57 PM, GuzzisRule wrote:
On Wed, 26 Dec 2012 13:22:47 -0500, wrote:

On Wed, 26 Dec 2012 09:05:28 -0500, iBoaterer wrote:

They don't have anything like this is North Carolina

http://gfretwell.com/ftp/alaska/Glacier%20lake.jpg

or this

http://gfretwell.com/ftp/california/...big%20tree.jpg

or this

http://gfretwell.com/ftp/colorado/Ju...kes%20peak.jpg

or this

http://gfretwell.com/ftp/dakota/Devils%20tower.jpg

Duh! So, what's your point? Are you saying that you can't hike and tent
camp in those areas???


I am saying I was not willing to drive to those places and trying to
pack your camping supplies on an airplane is not tenable.

At that point you are left with camping where you are willing to
drive.
My neighbor was an RV "camper" . He always had a six figure RV in his
driveway or in a paid parking lot facility (most of the time).
He always ended up losing about $50,000-100,000 when he traded them.
They were a maintenance black hole, got about 4-5 MPG on the road
towing another car. The campgrounds were not cheap and he still had to
buy food in or out.

I can't see the six-figure motorhome. At least I've got something to drive when the trailer's hooked
up, and I don't have to tow a toad.

We sat down and compared his cost to me and my wife, flying 1st class,
staying in suites in nice hotels, renting an SUV and cooking in
or eating out.
We came away cheaper and we got a lot more actual vacation out of our
2 or 3 weeks (unless driving a bus is your idea of fun).

Absolutely, especially if his was a diesel. There is some time lost driving, but much of this
country is nice to drive through. Kansas does get boring, along with Nebraska, Oklahome, most of
Texas and South Dakota. But, there are sights to see in every state, if one will slow down and take
a peek. My neighbor had a software program that calculated costs, given various assumptions, and
camping often won out.,

Unless you actually go camping 4 or 5 times a year, locally, the hotel
is always going to be cheaper once you actually add up all of your
expenses..

We've been averaging about twice a month since we got the first trailer a few years back. One of
the nice things about an RV is that you sleep without other peoples' bed bugs!


Well, after all this talk I guess we can morph it a bit... our ideal
camper would be a four door pickup truck, with a slide on. For day
races, we could throw the bikes in the back of the truck, for
weekend/roadtrips, we would slide the camper on and tow the bikes behind
in the trailer, during the week we have a pickup truck for around town...

What I really need is a commode and a shower, I don't mind cooking
outside. I don't want to sleep with the bikes, that's why I don't want a
long trailer with two sections, but having a girl racer, I do need two
separate sleeping areas.

If I could I would have one of those nice ones that squat down for travel

Here ya go!

http://www.rvwholesalers.com/resourc...aptor_2012.pdf

Everything you want in one place. Keep clicking the down arrow. This is what's called a 'Toy Hauler'
fifth wheel.


Sure, that's what Jessi goes racin' in when we roll out with the team.
That's what we call a "FunMover" and it's the reason I said "I don't
sleep with bikes". I want my bikes in a trailer. Second, I don't know
about you but 1200 dollars gas for one weekend from Worcester Mass to
Unadilla NY and back is not gonna' cut it for me and Jess on off
weekends... Nice, but naaaa, not for a us.

Wow, Worcester, Mass - haven't heard that name in a long time. My first assignment after I finished
my Artillery FDC training at Ft. Sill, OK, was to Ft. Devens, MA - just outside Ayer. I had to go to
Worcester for something, and the guy called it 'Woostah'. I couldn't find the damn town on the map,
so I got a little assistance from a local.

Anyway, my truck, a diesel, pulling about 10,500 lbs, gets around 15mpg, so the 500 mile trip would
cost in the neighborhood of $130 or so. You must be adding in the gas for the motorcycle. When we
bought ours, weight was a big factor in the decision process.



Shouldn't you be on the road again?

March, Pohick Bay...you're welcome to come, but don't call yourself ESAD. Folks will not think as
highly of you as you would wish given your status and all.



You're pulling your camper trailer to Pohick Bay, which is what, about a
half an hour from your house? In March?

I get it. You didn't have much to do, so you bought yourself a camper
trailer and a big truck so you'd have something to do.

Because it's the Christmas season, I'll try to be courteous, ESAD.

There is a group of us who meet at the Pohick Bay Regional Park twice a year, in early spring and
late fall. The spring get-together is for 'de-winterizing and a spring shakedown'. We do this close
to home in case we need something from the house. We do this as a group because if one person needs
a special tool or whatever, someone in the group may have it with them.

Makes a hell of a lot of sense... We have that effect sort of where we
don't meet to "start a season" in one place, but "that group" of friends
you have, we camp with every weekend all season long where ever we
happen to be.

We also do this 'cause we enjoy the camaraderie. Sitting around the campfire and shootin' the ****
is fun - even if it's a little chilly outside. We also do a buffet type dinner where everyone brings
a dish.

Yes, you're right. We bought the big truck to pull the big camper because we're doing something we
want to do!

Yup, life is short...

Merry Christmas!


That group is a local Good Sam chapter that we joined when we got our first trailer. It's a small
chapter - about 15 rigs, and we have a monthly campout during the season - March to November. We try
to keep the campouts within a three to four hour drive so those who have to work on Friday can get
there at a decent hour.

On Thu, 27 Dec 2012 12:51:00 -0500, ESAD wrote:

On 12/27/12 12:41 PM, GuzzisRule wrote:
On Thu, 27 Dec 2012 09:43:27 -0500, ESAD wrote:

On 12/27/12 9:27 AM, JustWait wrote:
On 12/27/2012 9:06 AM, JustWait wrote:
On 12/27/2012 8:37 AM, Meyer wrote:
On 12/27/2012 7:58 AM, JustWait wrote:
On 12/27/2012 7:53 AM, GuzzisRule wrote:
On Wed, 26 Dec 2012 18:14:53 -0500, JustWait
wrote:

On 12/26/2012 5:57 PM, GuzzisRule wrote:
On Wed, 26 Dec 2012 13:22:47 -0500, wrote:

On Wed, 26 Dec 2012 09:05:28 -0500, iBoaterer wrote:

They don't have anything like this is North Carolina

http://gfretwell.com/ftp/alaska/Glacier%20lake.jpg

or this

http://gfretwell.com/ftp/california/...big%20tree.jpg



or this

http://gfretwell.com/ftp/colorado/Ju...kes%20peak.jpg

or this

http://gfretwell.com/ftp/dakota/Devils%20tower.jpg

Duh! So, what's your point? Are you saying that you can't hike and
tent
camp in those areas???


I am saying I was not willing to drive to those places and
trying to
pack your camping supplies on an airplane is not tenable.

At that point you are left with camping where you are willing to
drive.
My neighbor was an RV "camper" . He always had a six figure RV in
his
driveway or in a paid parking lot facility (most of the time).
He always ended up losing about $50,000-100,000 when he traded
them.
They were a maintenance black hole, got about 4-5 MPG on the road
towing another car. The campgrounds were not cheap and he still
had to
buy food in or out.

I can't see the six-figure motorhome. At least I've got something to
drive when the trailer's hooked
up, and I don't have to tow a toad.

We sat down and compared his cost to me and my wife, flying 1st
class,
staying in suites in nice hotels, renting an SUV and cooking in
or eating out.
We came away cheaper and we got a lot more actual vacation out of
our
2 or 3 weeks (unless driving a bus is your idea of fun).

Absolutely, especially if his was a diesel. There is some time lost
driving, but much of this
country is nice to drive through. Kansas does get boring, along with
Nebraska, Oklahome, most of
Texas and South Dakota. But, there are sights to see in every state,
if one will slow down and take
a peek. My neighbor had a software program that calculated costs,
given various assumptions, and
camping often won out.,

Unless you actually go camping 4 or 5 times a year, locally, the
hotel
is always going to be cheaper once you actually add up all of your
expenses..

We've been averaging about twice a month since we got the first
trailer a few years back. One of
the nice things about an RV is that you sleep without other peoples'
bed bugs!


Well, after all this talk I guess we can morph it a bit... our ideal
camper would be a four door pickup truck, with a slide on. For day
races, we could throw the bikes in the back of the truck, for
weekend/roadtrips, we would slide the camper on and tow the bikes
behind
in the trailer, during the week we have a pickup truck for around
town...

What I really need is a commode and a shower, I don't mind cooking
outside. I don't want to sleep with the bikes, that's why I don't
want a
long trailer with two sections, but having a girl racer, I do need
two
separate sleeping areas.

If I could I would have one of those nice ones that squat down for
travel

Here ya go!

http://www.rvwholesalers.com/resourc...aptor_2012.pdf

Everything you want in one place. Keep clicking the down arrow. This
is what's called a 'Toy Hauler'
fifth wheel.


Sure, that's what Jessi goes racin' in when we roll out with the team.
That's what we call a "FunMover" and it's the reason I said "I don't
sleep with bikes". I want my bikes in a trailer. Second, I don't know
about you but 1200 dollars gas for one weekend from Worcester Mass to
Unadilla NY and back is not gonna' cut it for me and Jess on off
weekends... Nice, but naaaa, not for a us.

Howjuh come up with $1200

Need to confirm, I think it might have been 600... I will get back later
after I talk to him. IIRC, with the rig he gets about 4 miles to the
gallon or something crazy like that. Again, this is how I remember it,
but I will let you all know after I talk to him again. The rig however
is about 105 feet to park, and carries up to ten bikes.. oh, and I
forgot the golf cart


Yeah, it was 600 for the trip out and back, just for the hauler and
trailer. Race gas is something completely different, that goes anywhere
from 10-75 dollars a gallon depending on what you run. I only have
access to the 10-30 dollar price range.



$75 a gallon for gasoline? Hell, you can buy a decent bottle of wine for
$10.

I suppose your 'Ducati' runs on wine?

40+ mpg on pump gasoline. Three bucks and change a gallon. About $16 for
a fill up.

I'm trying hard not to laugh.

In article , says...

On 12/27/2012 12:07 PM, GuzzisRule wrote:
On Thu, 27 Dec 2012 10:00:01 -0500, JustWait wrote:

On 12/27/2012 9:46 AM, Meyer wrote:
On 12/27/2012 8:51 AM, GuzzisRule wrote:
On Thu, 27 Dec 2012 08:37:46 -0500, Meyer wrote:

On 12/27/2012 7:58 AM, JustWait wrote:
On 12/27/2012 7:53 AM, GuzzisRule wrote:
On Wed, 26 Dec 2012 18:14:53 -0500, JustWait
wrote:

On 12/26/2012 5:57 PM, GuzzisRule wrote:
On Wed, 26 Dec 2012 13:22:47 -0500, wrote:

On Wed, 26 Dec 2012 09:05:28 -0500, iBoaterer wrote:

They don't have anything like this is North Carolina

http://gfretwell.com/ftp/alaska/Glacier%20lake.jpg

or this

http://gfretwell.com/ftp/california/...big%20tree.jpg


or this

http://gfretwell.com/ftp/colorado/Ju...kes%20peak.jpg

or this

http://gfretwell.com/ftp/dakota/Devils%20tower.jpg

Duh! So, what's your point? Are you saying that you can't hike and
tent
camp in those areas???


I am saying I was not willing to drive to those places and
trying to
pack your camping supplies on an airplane is not tenable.

At that point you are left with camping where you are willing to
drive.
My neighbor was an RV "camper" . He always had a six figure RV
in his
driveway or in a paid parking lot facility (most of the time).
He always ended up losing about $50,000-100,000 when he traded
them.
They were a maintenance black hole, got about 4-5 MPG on the road
towing another car. The campgrounds were not cheap and he still
had to
buy food in or out.

I can't see the six-figure motorhome. At least I've got something to
drive when the trailer's hooked
up, and I don't have to tow a toad.

We sat down and compared his cost to me and my wife, flying 1st
class,
staying in suites in nice hotels, renting an SUV and cooking in
or eating out.
We came away cheaper and we got a lot more actual vacation out
of our
2 or 3 weeks (unless driving a bus is your idea of fun).

Absolutely, especially if his was a diesel. There is some time lost
driving, but much of this
country is nice to drive through. Kansas does get boring, along with
Nebraska, Oklahome, most of
Texas and South Dakota. But, there are sights to see in every state,
if one will slow down and take
a peek. My neighbor had a software program that calculated costs,
given various assumptions, and
camping often won out.,

Unless you actually go camping 4 or 5 times a year, locally, the
hotel
is always going to be cheaper once you actually add up all of your
expenses..

We've been averaging about twice a month since we got the first
trailer a few years back. One of
the nice things about an RV is that you sleep without other peoples'
bed bugs!


Well, after all this talk I guess we can morph it a bit... our ideal
camper would be a four door pickup truck, with a slide on. For day
races, we could throw the bikes in the back of the truck, for
weekend/roadtrips, we would slide the camper on and tow the bikes
behind
in the trailer, during the week we have a pickup truck for around
town...

What I really need is a commode and a shower, I don't mind cooking
outside. I don't want to sleep with the bikes, that's why I don't
want a
long trailer with two sections, but having a girl racer, I do need
two
separate sleeping areas.

If I could I would have one of those nice ones that squat down for
travel

Here ya go!

http://www.rvwholesalers.com/resourc...aptor_2012.pdf

Everything you want in one place. Keep clicking the down arrow. This
is what's called a 'Toy Hauler'
fifth wheel.


Sure, that's what Jessi goes racin' in when we roll out with the team.
That's what we call a "FunMover" and it's the reason I said "I don't
sleep with bikes". I want my bikes in a trailer. Second, I don't know
about you but 1200 dollars gas for one weekend from Worcester Mass to
Unadilla NY and back is not gonna' cut it for me and Jess on off
weekends... Nice, but naaaa, not for a us.

Howjuh come up with $1200

I think he was making the point that he didn't want to come up with
$1200 for gas!

I didn't mean it that way.

Yeah, it was a brain fart. 4 mi to the gallon, about 600 bucks round
trip. Either way back to the pickup truck thing, it's all we need. Like
I said, I am comfortable with a potty, a shower even if it's outside the
rig in an enclosure, a bed, and a safe place for the bikes, ie, in a
trailer. I could spend a lot of time out there like that, even more if I
had a small kitchen in the pop up.

Hey, lots of folks use pickup campers. Then you'd be able to pull the trailer with the bikes. Many
of them come pretty well equipped, and the prices are all over the map. Here's a nice one with a lot
of features.

http://www.campingworld.com/rvsales/...verick/248051/

Bingo, that's the idea. I have my PU truck during the week which is
nice, and throw the bikes in the back for practice. Half of the races
are one day races, within two hours drive and we would go there with the
bikes in the back of the pickup, clean and easy. For weekend or long
over night races and one day trips we would lock down the camper and tow
the bikes in the trailer. Another advantage is having a "street vehicle"
available at the races, trips to town for ice, parts, phone service, or
once unfortunately medical attention, is another plus. Jess and I could
travel and live in something like that for weeks at a time and do just fine.

And no, my current lot won't really accommodate anything like a fifth
wheel or a Funmover. The addition on the driveway side keeps me from
pulling anything short of a small trailer into the back lot. I could
stick the pu camper on the side or back and get away with it, and the
trailer lives in the driveway but it's small (modest, only 8x5 feet
and clean so nobody complains. Anyway, yes, the link John posted is
exactly where Jess and I are trying to be.



Of course, the price is $10K, but you could maybe get 15-20% off with a little dickering.
RVTrader.com. ( http://tinyurl.com/brjncx7 )

As you can see, prices all over the map. Hell, I didn't know it was possible to spend so much money
on a pickup camper!


Are you going to do all of that as opposed to paying your taxes? Have
you made enough from profit from pimping your kid's racing to afford
that?

On 12/27/12 1:23 PM, GuzzisRule wrote:
On Thu, 27 Dec 2012 12:51:00 -0500, ESAD wrote:

On 12/27/12 12:41 PM, GuzzisRule wrote:
On Thu, 27 Dec 2012 09:43:27 -0500, ESAD wrote:

On 12/27/12 9:27 AM, JustWait wrote:
On 12/27/2012 9:06 AM, JustWait wrote:
On 12/27/2012 8:37 AM, Meyer wrote:
On 12/27/2012 7:58 AM, JustWait wrote:
On 12/27/2012 7:53 AM, GuzzisRule wrote:
On Wed, 26 Dec 2012 18:14:53 -0500, JustWait
wrote:

On 12/26/2012 5:57 PM, GuzzisRule wrote:
On Wed, 26 Dec 2012 13:22:47 -0500, wrote:

On Wed, 26 Dec 2012 09:05:28 -0500, iBoaterer wrote:

They don't have anything like this is North Carolina

http://gfretwell.com/ftp/alaska/Glacier%20lake.jpg

or this

http://gfretwell.com/ftp/california/...big%20tree.jpg



or this

http://gfretwell.com/ftp/colorado/Ju...kes%20peak.jpg

or this

http://gfretwell.com/ftp/dakota/Devils%20tower.jpg

Duh! So, what's your point? Are you saying that you can't hike and
tent
camp in those areas???


I am saying I was not willing to drive to those places and
trying to
pack your camping supplies on an airplane is not tenable.

At that point you are left with camping where you are willing to
drive.
My neighbor was an RV "camper" . He always had a six figure RV in
his
driveway or in a paid parking lot facility (most of the time).
He always ended up losing about $50,000-100,000 when he traded
them.
They were a maintenance black hole, got about 4-5 MPG on the road
towing another car. The campgrounds were not cheap and he still
had to
buy food in or out.

I can't see the six-figure motorhome. At least I've got something to
drive when the trailer's hooked
up, and I don't have to tow a toad.

We sat down and compared his cost to me and my wife, flying 1st
class,
staying in suites in nice hotels, renting an SUV and cooking in
or eating out.
We came away cheaper and we got a lot more actual vacation out of
our
2 or 3 weeks (unless driving a bus is your idea of fun).

Absolutely, especially if his was a diesel. There is some time lost
driving, but much of this
country is nice to drive through. Kansas does get boring, along with
Nebraska, Oklahome, most of
Texas and South Dakota. But, there are sights to see in every state,
if one will slow down and take
a peek. My neighbor had a software program that calculated costs,
given various assumptions, and
camping often won out.,

Unless you actually go camping 4 or 5 times a year, locally, the
hotel
is always going to be cheaper once you actually add up all of your
expenses..

We've been averaging about twice a month since we got the first
trailer a few years back. One of
the nice things about an RV is that you sleep without other peoples'
bed bugs!


Well, after all this talk I guess we can morph it a bit... our ideal
camper would be a four door pickup truck, with a slide on. For day
races, we could throw the bikes in the back of the truck, for
weekend/roadtrips, we would slide the camper on and tow the bikes
behind
in the trailer, during the week we have a pickup truck for around
town...

What I really need is a commode and a shower, I don't mind cooking
outside. I don't want to sleep with the bikes, that's why I don't
want a
long trailer with two sections, but having a girl racer, I do need
two
separate sleeping areas.

If I could I would have one of those nice ones that squat down for
travel

Here ya go!

http://www.rvwholesalers.com/resourc...aptor_2012.pdf

Everything you want in one place. Keep clicking the down arrow. This
is what's called a 'Toy Hauler'
fifth wheel.


Sure, that's what Jessi goes racin' in when we roll out with the team.
That's what we call a "FunMover" and it's the reason I said "I don't
sleep with bikes". I want my bikes in a trailer. Second, I don't know
about you but 1200 dollars gas for one weekend from Worcester Mass to
Unadilla NY and back is not gonna' cut it for me and Jess on off
weekends... Nice, but naaaa, not for a us.

Howjuh come up with $1200

Need to confirm, I think it might have been 600... I will get back later
after I talk to him. IIRC, with the rig he gets about 4 miles to the
gallon or something crazy like that. Again, this is how I remember it,
but I will let you all know after I talk to him again. The rig however
is about 105 feet to park, and carries up to ten bikes.. oh, and I
forgot the golf cart


Yeah, it was 600 for the trip out and back, just for the hauler and
trailer. Race gas is something completely different, that goes anywhere
from 10-75 dollars a gallon depending on what you run. I only have
access to the 10-30 dollar price range.



$75 a gallon for gasoline? Hell, you can buy a decent bottle of wine for
$10.

I suppose your 'Ducati' runs on wine?

40+ mpg on pump gasoline. Three bucks and change a gallon. About $16 for
a fill up.

I'm trying hard not to laugh.


Don't look in the mirror, john the racist.

In article ,
says...

On Thu, 27 Dec 2012 12:23:41 -0500, JustWait wrote:

On 12/27/2012 12:07 PM, GuzzisRule wrote:
On Thu, 27 Dec 2012 10:00:01 -0500, JustWait wrote:

On 12/27/2012 9:46 AM, Meyer wrote:
On 12/27/2012 8:51 AM, GuzzisRule wrote:
On Thu, 27 Dec 2012 08:37:46 -0500, Meyer wrote:

On 12/27/2012 7:58 AM, JustWait wrote:
On 12/27/2012 7:53 AM, GuzzisRule wrote:
On Wed, 26 Dec 2012 18:14:53 -0500, JustWait
wrote:

On 12/26/2012 5:57 PM, GuzzisRule wrote:
On Wed, 26 Dec 2012 13:22:47 -0500, wrote:

On Wed, 26 Dec 2012 09:05:28 -0500, iBoaterer wrote:

They don't have anything like this is North Carolina

http://gfretwell.com/ftp/alaska/Glacier%20lake.jpg

or this

http://gfretwell.com/ftp/california/...big%20tree.jpg


or this

http://gfretwell.com/ftp/colorado/Ju...kes%20peak.jpg

or this

http://gfretwell.com/ftp/dakota/Devils%20tower.jpg

Duh! So, what's your point? Are you saying that you can't hike and
tent
camp in those areas???


I am saying I was not willing to drive to those places and
trying to
pack your camping supplies on an airplane is not tenable.

At that point you are left with camping where you are willing to
drive.
My neighbor was an RV "camper" . He always had a six figure RV
in his
driveway or in a paid parking lot facility (most of the time).
He always ended up losing about $50,000-100,000 when he traded
them.
They were a maintenance black hole, got about 4-5 MPG on the road
towing another car. The campgrounds were not cheap and he still
had to
buy food in or out.

I can't see the six-figure motorhome. At least I've got something to
drive when the trailer's hooked
up, and I don't have to tow a toad.

We sat down and compared his cost to me and my wife, flying 1st
class,
staying in suites in nice hotels, renting an SUV and cooking in
or eating out.
We came away cheaper and we got a lot more actual vacation out
of our
2 or 3 weeks (unless driving a bus is your idea of fun).

Absolutely, especially if his was a diesel. There is some time lost
driving, but much of this
country is nice to drive through. Kansas does get boring, along with
Nebraska, Oklahome, most of
Texas and South Dakota. But, there are sights to see in every state,
if one will slow down and take
a peek. My neighbor had a software program that calculated costs,
given various assumptions, and
camping often won out.,

Unless you actually go camping 4 or 5 times a year, locally, the
hotel
is always going to be cheaper once you actually add up all of your
expenses..

We've been averaging about twice a month since we got the first
trailer a few years back. One of
the nice things about an RV is that you sleep without other peoples'
bed bugs!


Well, after all this talk I guess we can morph it a bit... our ideal
camper would be a four door pickup truck, with a slide on. For day
races, we could throw the bikes in the back of the truck, for
weekend/roadtrips, we would slide the camper on and tow the bikes
behind
in the trailer, during the week we have a pickup truck for around
town...

What I really need is a commode and a shower, I don't mind cooking
outside. I don't want to sleep with the bikes, that's why I don't
want a
long trailer with two sections, but having a girl racer, I do need
two
separate sleeping areas.

If I could I would have one of those nice ones that squat down for
travel

Here ya go!

http://www.rvwholesalers.com/resourc...aptor_2012.pdf

Everything you want in one place. Keep clicking the down arrow. This
is what's called a 'Toy Hauler'
fifth wheel.


Sure, that's what Jessi goes racin' in when we roll out with the team.
That's what we call a "FunMover" and it's the reason I said "I don't
sleep with bikes". I want my bikes in a trailer. Second, I don't know
about you but 1200 dollars gas for one weekend from Worcester Mass to
Unadilla NY and back is not gonna' cut it for me and Jess on off
weekends... Nice, but naaaa, not for a us.

Howjuh come up with $1200

I think he was making the point that he didn't want to come up with
$1200 for gas!

I didn't mean it that way.

Yeah, it was a brain fart. 4 mi to the gallon, about 600 bucks round
trip. Either way back to the pickup truck thing, it's all we need. Like
I said, I am comfortable with a potty, a shower even if it's outside the
rig in an enclosure, a bed, and a safe place for the bikes, ie, in a
trailer. I could spend a lot of time out there like that, even more if I
had a small kitchen in the pop up.

Hey, lots of folks use pickup campers. Then you'd be able to pull the trailer with the bikes. Many
of them come pretty well equipped, and the prices are all over the map. Here's a nice one with a lot
of features.

http://www.campingworld.com/rvsales/...verick/248051/

Bingo, that's the idea. I have my PU truck during the week which is
nice, and throw the bikes in the back for practice. Half of the races
are one day races, within two hours drive and we would go there with the
bikes in the back of the pickup, clean and easy. For weekend or long
over night races and one day trips we would lock down the camper and tow
the bikes in the trailer. Another advantage is having a "street vehicle"
available at the races, trips to town for ice, parts, phone service, or
once unfortunately medical attention, is another plus. Jess and I could
travel and live in something like that for weeks at a time and do just fine.

And no, my current lot won't really accommodate anything like a fifth
wheel or a Funmover. The addition on the driveway side keeps me from
pulling anything short of a small trailer into the back lot. I could
stick the pu camper on the side or back and get away with it, and the
trailer lives in the driveway but it's small (modest, only 8x5 feet
and clean so nobody complains. Anyway, yes, the link John posted is
exactly where Jess and I are trying to be.



Of course, the price is $10K, but you could maybe get 15-20% off with a little dickering.
RVTrader.com. ( http://tinyurl.com/brjncx7 )

As you can see, prices all over the map. Hell, I didn't know it was possible to spend so much money
on a pickup camper!


But!!!

Whatever you do, don't order a Predator generator from Harbor Freight!

They're noisy, heavy, consume too much fuel, will get you run out of campsites, don't last more than
a few hours, are ugly, and noisy.

I cancelled my order after getting all the free advice here. I'm going to put the Honda on my list
for next Christmas - being just as 'commercial' as I can be!

I hear that the Predator will render you sterile as well.....

In article ,
says...

On 12/27/12 12:18 PM, iBoaterer wrote:
In article ,
says...

On 12/27/12 11:01 AM, wrote:
On Thursday, December 27, 2012 10:15:18 AM UTC-4, ESAD wrote:
On 12/27/12 8:59 AM, Eisboch wrote:





"GuzzisRule" wrote in message

...





Here ya go!



http://www.rvwholesalers.com/resourc...aptor_2012.pdf



Everything you want in one place. Keep clicking the down arrow. This is

what's called a 'Toy Hauler'

fifth wheel.



---------------------------------------------------



Looks familiar. We had the 377-SE version. Went "camping" once with it

and had the most miserable week of my life.



My daughter started it all. She and her husband were into camping and

were purchasing a new travel trailer. She convinced Mrs.E and I and my

older son and his wife to get a trailer as well for "family" camping.

I saw it as a good excuse to get a new truck, so I bought the Raptor Toy

Hauler along with a Ford 350 Diesel and had the fifth wheel hitch

installed. I had a Harley at the time and figured the toy hauler would

come in handy. My son bought a slightly smaller fifth wheel and a Ford

250 with the V-10. We all picked up our new RV's the same day at the

dealership.



My daughter made reservations for all of us for a week at a campground

in New Hampshire that they visited often. I forget what the name of it

is. I call it "Marty Moose Land". We all had sites beside each other.

The trip to the campground was uneventful. The Ford pulled the Raptor

with no problem and I thought this was going to be pretty cool.



Well, that particular week in the mountains of New Hampshire was the

hottest, most humid week I've spent anywhere. Big thunderstorms every

afternoon kept us all huddled inside our respective RV's with the AC

units running at full blast. When it stopped raining and we ventured

outside, the mosquitoes were waiting to draw blood.



One humid, sultry afternoon, we were sitting at my son's site trying to

have a beer while swishing away the bugs and mosquitoes. His young

daughter was playing inside his fifth wheel. As we sat talking, I

looked up and saw water seeping out of the storage area door under the

master bedroom of the RV. Got up, opened the door, and gallons of

water started pouring out. His daughter had plugged the vanity sink in

the bedroom and had the faucets turned on full. It had filled the sink

and was overflowing everywhere, soaking the carpets and draining into

the storage area. I took off to find a hardware store to get a wet

vac while the rest started sopping up the water.



Gracefully, the last day of our camping adventure arrived. My son and

his family left, and then us by early afternoon. My daughter and her

husband wanted to stay a little longer, so we said goodbye and hit the

road.



By 8pm, I had just arrived home and backed the fifth-wheel into it's

spot at our house when the phone rang. It was my daughter. They had

just left the campsite, got a mile down the road and their vehicle

snapped a tie rod. They were sitting on the side of a busy road with a

broken SUV, their new, 28' travel trailer and two crying kids.



So, dear old Dad heads back to the New Hampshire mountains in his truck

to rescue them. Finally got back to their house by 2am, towing the

trailer.

Their truck was put on a flatbed and taken to a repair shop.



The next day I listed the Raptor "For Sale" in a couple of the RV

classifieds. Sold it a few weeks later to a buyer in Canada.



BTW, that wasn't our first attempt at trying the camping scene. When I

first retired and we wintered in Florida, we thought it would be fun to

make the trips back and forth in a RV. We tried a 37' Pace Arrow class

A motorhome, a Chinook Glacier and a Dodge Sprinter RV. Of the three,

I liked the Sprinter the most and we owned it the longest, but we

eventually sold the Florida house and rarely used the Sprinter. We

ended up selling it to a guy in Missouri who flew out and drove it

home. He and his wife still send us email pictures of their travels in

it.



Camping is great for some people. It's just not for me. I'd much

rather live on a boat.









We've been to Maine a few times. On one of those trips, we rented an RV

and loaded it onto a ferry to take us to an island campground for a few

days. The RV, the island, and so forth were fine, but the island was

infested with biting bugs. They weren't mosquitoes, they were much

bigger, and it was hot and humid, too. Misery most of the time.



The next time we went to Maine, we stayed he



http://mainestayinn.com/



No annoying insects indoors or outdoors, beautiful rooms, great

breakfasts, and within walking distance of lots of sights and shopping

and the waterfront. My wife was *much* happier! We ate too many meals at

Mabel's Lobster House, purportedly where President and Mrs. George H.W.

Bush had many meals when he was healthier. Lobsters at the dock were

about $2.50 a pound. I braved walking into the water at a local beach

and got in about halfway up to my knees before the cold chased me out. I

love the Maine coastline.



On the way back, we stayed at a B&B in Cambridge, Massachusetts, to see

relatives and old friends. Nice enough place, but no match for the Maine

Stay. No bugs.

That spot looks nice. I've always wanted to get down to the Seashore Trolly Museum in that area. I was serious in the summer of 2011 but after contacting the museum found out that the main attraction for me (Birney Safety Car) was judged too run down to put on display or even to fix up in the immediate future.
The birney car was the only streetcar used in Halifax from about 1921 until 1949..the year I was born.


Kennebunkport can get a little crowded with tourists (like us), but when
we were there, in the height of the tourist season, it wasn't that bad.
There's lots to see in that part of Maine. LL Bean isn't that far away,
and it is worth a day's visit.

Yeah, that's what I want to see and do when I go to explore somewhere,
shop and go to a mall.



I travel with a wife who likes to shop, likes hot showers, likes beds.
You travel with your hand.

That must be a load of fun. Go to a different city, then... shop.

In article ,
says...

On Thu, 27 Dec 2012 09:03:51 -0500, ESAD wrote:

On 12/27/12 8:49 AM, GuzzisRule wrote:
On Thu, 27 Dec 2012 08:35:15 -0500, ESAD wrote:

On 12/27/12 8:33 AM, GuzzisRule wrote:
On Thu, 27 Dec 2012 07:58:17 -0500, JustWait wrote:

On 12/27/2012 7:53 AM, GuzzisRule wrote:
On Wed, 26 Dec 2012 18:14:53 -0500, JustWait wrote:

On 12/26/2012 5:57 PM, GuzzisRule wrote:
On Wed, 26 Dec 2012 13:22:47 -0500, wrote:

On Wed, 26 Dec 2012 09:05:28 -0500, iBoaterer wrote:

They don't have anything like this is North Carolina

http://gfretwell.com/ftp/alaska/Glacier%20lake.jpg

or this

http://gfretwell.com/ftp/california/...big%20tree.jpg

or this

http://gfretwell.com/ftp/colorado/Ju...kes%20peak.jpg

or this

http://gfretwell.com/ftp/dakota/Devils%20tower.jpg

Duh! So, what's your point? Are you saying that you can't hike and tent
camp in those areas???


I am saying I was not willing to drive to those places and trying to
pack your camping supplies on an airplane is not tenable.

At that point you are left with camping where you are willing to
drive.
My neighbor was an RV "camper" . He always had a six figure RV in his
driveway or in a paid parking lot facility (most of the time).
He always ended up losing about $50,000-100,000 when he traded them.
They were a maintenance black hole, got about 4-5 MPG on the road
towing another car. The campgrounds were not cheap and he still had to
buy food in or out.

I can't see the six-figure motorhome. At least I've got something to drive when the trailer's hooked
up, and I don't have to tow a toad.

We sat down and compared his cost to me and my wife, flying 1st class,
staying in suites in nice hotels, renting an SUV and cooking in
or eating out.
We came away cheaper and we got a lot more actual vacation out of our
2 or 3 weeks (unless driving a bus is your idea of fun).

Absolutely, especially if his was a diesel. There is some time lost driving, but much of this
country is nice to drive through. Kansas does get boring, along with Nebraska, Oklahome, most of
Texas and South Dakota. But, there are sights to see in every state, if one will slow down and take
a peek. My neighbor had a software program that calculated costs, given various assumptions, and
camping often won out.,

Unless you actually go camping 4 or 5 times a year, locally, the hotel
is always going to be cheaper once you actually add up all of your
expenses..

We've been averaging about twice a month since we got the first trailer a few years back. One of
the nice things about an RV is that you sleep without other peoples' bed bugs!


Well, after all this talk I guess we can morph it a bit... our ideal
camper would be a four door pickup truck, with a slide on. For day
races, we could throw the bikes in the back of the truck, for
weekend/roadtrips, we would slide the camper on and tow the bikes behind
in the trailer, during the week we have a pickup truck for around town...

What I really need is a commode and a shower, I don't mind cooking
outside. I don't want to sleep with the bikes, that's why I don't want a
long trailer with two sections, but having a girl racer, I do need two
separate sleeping areas.

If I could I would have one of those nice ones that squat down for travel

Here ya go!

http://www.rvwholesalers.com/resourc...aptor_2012.pdf

Everything you want in one place. Keep clicking the down arrow. This is what's called a 'Toy Hauler'
fifth wheel.


Sure, that's what Jessi goes racin' in when we roll out with the team.
That's what we call a "FunMover" and it's the reason I said "I don't
sleep with bikes". I want my bikes in a trailer. Second, I don't know
about you but 1200 dollars gas for one weekend from Worcester Mass to
Unadilla NY and back is not gonna' cut it for me and Jess on off
weekends... Nice, but naaaa, not for a us.

Wow, Worcester, Mass - haven't heard that name in a long time. My first assignment after I finished
my Artillery FDC training at Ft. Sill, OK, was to Ft. Devens, MA - just outside Ayer. I had to go to
Worcester for something, and the guy called it 'Woostah'. I couldn't find the damn town on the map,
so I got a little assistance from a local.

Anyway, my truck, a diesel, pulling about 10,500 lbs, gets around 15mpg, so the 500 mile trip would
cost in the neighborhood of $130 or so. You must be adding in the gas for the motorcycle. When we
bought ours, weight was a big factor in the decision process.



Shouldn't you be on the road again?

March, Pohick Bay...you're welcome to come, but don't call yourself ESAD. Folks will not think as
highly of you as you would wish given your status and all.



You're pulling your camper trailer to Pohick Bay, which is what, about a
half an hour from your house? In March?

I get it. You didn't have much to do, so you bought yourself a camper
trailer and a big truck so you'd have something to do.

Because it's the Christmas season, I'll try to be courteous, ESAD.

There is a group of us who meet at the Pohick Bay Regional Park twice a year, in early spring and
late fall. The spring get-together is for 'de-winterizing and a spring shakedown'. We do this close
to home in case we need something from the house. We do this as a group because if one person needs
a special tool or whatever, someone in the group may have it with them.

We also do this 'cause we enjoy the camaraderie. Sitting around the campfire and shootin' the ****
is fun - even if it's a little chilly outside. We also do a buffet type dinner where everyone brings
a dish.

Yes, you're right. We bought the big truck to pull the big camper because we're doing something we
want to do!

Merry Christmas!

But you could get on a plane, fly to a city, go to your hotel, then
shop!!! Doesn't that sound like an adventurous fun thing???!

On Thursday, December 27, 2012 12:55:07 PM UTC-4, ESAD wrote:
On 12/27/12 11:49 AM, wrote:

On Thu, 27 Dec 2012 08:01:15 -0500, JustWait

wrote:







Had to sleep in a motel a while back for a family funeral trip. Oh man,

it was gross, just the smell of the place in general... I seriously

doubt that I will ever try to stay in a motel again, I really had

trouble sleeping just smelled like socks in the place.



You really have to spend more than $49 a night.





Doubtful he spent that much.

Reminds me of the time the wife and I flew to California about 1983.
We rented a car at the airport and headed for Palm Springs the first day. Ended up staying at a Motel 6 in Indigo first night after a fellow worker recommended it.
Kept the light on all night because the cockroaches were freaking me out running up the wall. Neat to see Date Palm trees though, supposidly the only spot in North America where they grew.

In article ,
says...

On 12/27/12 12:27 PM, GuzzisRule wrote:
On Thu, 27 Dec 2012 09:03:51 -0500, ESAD wrote:

On 12/27/12 8:49 AM, GuzzisRule wrote:
On Thu, 27 Dec 2012 08:35:15 -0500, ESAD wrote:

On 12/27/12 8:33 AM, GuzzisRule wrote:
On Thu, 27 Dec 2012 07:58:17 -0500, JustWait wrote:

On 12/27/2012 7:53 AM, GuzzisRule wrote:
On Wed, 26 Dec 2012 18:14:53 -0500, JustWait wrote:

On 12/26/2012 5:57 PM, GuzzisRule wrote:
On Wed, 26 Dec 2012 13:22:47 -0500, wrote:

On Wed, 26 Dec 2012 09:05:28 -0500, iBoaterer wrote:

They don't have anything like this is North Carolina

http://gfretwell.com/ftp/alaska/Glacier%20lake.jpg

or this

http://gfretwell.com/ftp/california/...big%20tree.jpg

or this

http://gfretwell.com/ftp/colorado/Ju...kes%20peak.jpg

or this

http://gfretwell.com/ftp/dakota/Devils%20tower.jpg

Duh! So, what's your point? Are you saying that you can't hike and tent
camp in those areas???


I am saying I was not willing to drive to those places and trying to
pack your camping supplies on an airplane is not tenable.

At that point you are left with camping where you are willing to
drive.
My neighbor was an RV "camper" . He always had a six figure RV in his
driveway or in a paid parking lot facility (most of the time).
He always ended up losing about $50,000-100,000 when he traded them.
They were a maintenance black hole, got about 4-5 MPG on the road
towing another car. The campgrounds were not cheap and he still had to
buy food in or out.

I can't see the six-figure motorhome. At least I've got something to drive when the trailer's hooked
up, and I don't have to tow a toad.

We sat down and compared his cost to me and my wife, flying 1st class,
staying in suites in nice hotels, renting an SUV and cooking in
or eating out.
We came away cheaper and we got a lot more actual vacation out of our
2 or 3 weeks (unless driving a bus is your idea of fun).

Absolutely, especially if his was a diesel. There is some time lost driving, but much of this
country is nice to drive through. Kansas does get boring, along with Nebraska, Oklahome, most of
Texas and South Dakota. But, there are sights to see in every state, if one will slow down and take
a peek. My neighbor had a software program that calculated costs, given various assumptions, and
camping often won out.,

Unless you actually go camping 4 or 5 times a year, locally, the hotel
is always going to be cheaper once you actually add up all of your
expenses..

We've been averaging about twice a month since we got the first trailer a few years back. One of
the nice things about an RV is that you sleep without other peoples' bed bugs!


Well, after all this talk I guess we can morph it a bit... our ideal
camper would be a four door pickup truck, with a slide on. For day
races, we could throw the bikes in the back of the truck, for
weekend/roadtrips, we would slide the camper on and tow the bikes behind
in the trailer, during the week we have a pickup truck for around town...

What I really need is a commode and a shower, I don't mind cooking
outside. I don't want to sleep with the bikes, that's why I don't want a
long trailer with two sections, but having a girl racer, I do need two
separate sleeping areas.

If I could I would have one of those nice ones that squat down for travel

Here ya go!

http://www.rvwholesalers.com/resourc...aptor_2012.pdf

Everything you want in one place. Keep clicking the down arrow. This is what's called a 'Toy Hauler'
fifth wheel.


Sure, that's what Jessi goes racin' in when we roll out with the team.
That's what we call a "FunMover" and it's the reason I said "I don't
sleep with bikes". I want my bikes in a trailer. Second, I don't know
about you but 1200 dollars gas for one weekend from Worcester Mass to
Unadilla NY and back is not gonna' cut it for me and Jess on off
weekends... Nice, but naaaa, not for a us.

Wow, Worcester, Mass - haven't heard that name in a long time. My first assignment after I finished
my Artillery FDC training at Ft. Sill, OK, was to Ft. Devens, MA - just outside Ayer. I had to go to
Worcester for something, and the guy called it 'Woostah'. I couldn't find the damn town on the map,
so I got a little assistance from a local.

Anyway, my truck, a diesel, pulling about 10,500 lbs, gets around 15mpg, so the 500 mile trip would
cost in the neighborhood of $130 or so. You must be adding in the gas for the motorcycle. When we
bought ours, weight was a big factor in the decision process.



Shouldn't you be on the road again?

March, Pohick Bay...you're welcome to come, but don't call yourself ESAD. Folks will not think as
highly of you as you would wish given your status and all.



You're pulling your camper trailer to Pohick Bay, which is what, about a
half an hour from your house? In March?

I get it. You didn't have much to do, so you bought yourself a camper
trailer and a big truck so you'd have something to do.

Because it's the Christmas season, I'll try to be courteous, ESAD.

There is a group of us who meet at the Pohick Bay Regional Park twice a year, in early spring and
late fall. The spring get-together is for 'de-winterizing and a spring shakedown'. We do this close
to home in case we need something from the house. We do this as a group because if one person needs
a special tool or whatever, someone in the group may have it with them.

We also do this 'cause we enjoy the camaraderie. Sitting around the campfire and shootin' the ****
is fun - even if it's a little chilly outside. We also do a buffet type dinner where everyone brings
a dish.

Yes, you're right. We bought the big truck to pull the big camper because we're doing something we
want to do!

Merry Christmas!


I suppose when you are retired, you need busy work to have something to do.

I guess he could fly to another city, sit in a hotel room and go
shopping..... That sounds like a thrill.

On 12/27/2012 12:27 PM, ESAD wrote:
On 12/27/12 12:18 PM, iBoaterer wrote:
In article ,
says...

On 12/27/12 11:01 AM, wrote:
On Thursday, December 27, 2012 10:15:18 AM UTC-4, ESAD wrote:
On 12/27/12 8:59 AM, Eisboch wrote:





"GuzzisRule" wrote in message

...





Here ya go!



http://www.rvwholesalers.com/resourc...aptor_2012.pdf



Everything you want in one place. Keep clicking the down arrow.
This is

what's called a 'Toy Hauler'

fifth wheel.



---------------------------------------------------



Looks familiar. We had the 377-SE version. Went "camping" once
with it

and had the most miserable week of my life.



My daughter started it all. She and her husband were into camping
and

were purchasing a new travel trailer. She convinced Mrs.E and I
and my

older son and his wife to get a trailer as well for "family" camping.

I saw it as a good excuse to get a new truck, so I bought the
Raptor Toy

Hauler along with a Ford 350 Diesel and had the fifth wheel hitch

installed. I had a Harley at the time and figured the toy hauler
would

come in handy. My son bought a slightly smaller fifth wheel and a
Ford

250 with the V-10. We all picked up our new RV's the same day at
the

dealership.



My daughter made reservations for all of us for a week at a
campground

in New Hampshire that they visited often. I forget what the name
of it

is. I call it "Marty Moose Land". We all had sites beside each
other.

The trip to the campground was uneventful. The Ford pulled the
Raptor

with no problem and I thought this was going to be pretty cool.



Well, that particular week in the mountains of New Hampshire was the

hottest, most humid week I've spent anywhere. Big thunderstorms
every

afternoon kept us all huddled inside our respective RV's with the AC

units running at full blast. When it stopped raining and we
ventured

outside, the mosquitoes were waiting to draw blood.



One humid, sultry afternoon, we were sitting at my son's site
trying to

have a beer while swishing away the bugs and mosquitoes. His young

daughter was playing inside his fifth wheel. As we sat talking, I

looked up and saw water seeping out of the storage area door under
the

master bedroom of the RV. Got up, opened the door, and gallons of

water started pouring out. His daughter had plugged the vanity
sink in

the bedroom and had the faucets turned on full. It had filled the
sink

and was overflowing everywhere, soaking the carpets and draining into

the storage area. I took off to find a hardware store to get a wet

vac while the rest started sopping up the water.



Gracefully, the last day of our camping adventure arrived. My
son and

his family left, and then us by early afternoon. My daughter and
her

husband wanted to stay a little longer, so we said goodbye and hit
the

road.



By 8pm, I had just arrived home and backed the fifth-wheel into it's

spot at our house when the phone rang. It was my daughter. They
had

just left the campsite, got a mile down the road and their vehicle

snapped a tie rod. They were sitting on the side of a busy road
with a

broken SUV, their new, 28' travel trailer and two crying kids.



So, dear old Dad heads back to the New Hampshire mountains in his
truck

to rescue them. Finally got back to their house by 2am, towing the

trailer.

Their truck was put on a flatbed and taken to a repair shop.



The next day I listed the Raptor "For Sale" in a couple of the RV

classifieds. Sold it a few weeks later to a buyer in Canada.



BTW, that wasn't our first attempt at trying the camping scene.
When I

first retired and we wintered in Florida, we thought it would be
fun to

make the trips back and forth in a RV. We tried a 37' Pace Arrow
class

A motorhome, a Chinook Glacier and a Dodge Sprinter RV. Of the
three,

I liked the Sprinter the most and we owned it the longest, but we

eventually sold the Florida house and rarely used the Sprinter. We

ended up selling it to a guy in Missouri who flew out and drove it

home. He and his wife still send us email pictures of their
travels in

it.



Camping is great for some people. It's just not for me. I'd much

rather live on a boat.









We've been to Maine a few times. On one of those trips, we rented
an RV

and loaded it onto a ferry to take us to an island campground for a
few

days. The RV, the island, and so forth were fine, but the island was

infested with biting bugs. They weren't mosquitoes, they were much

bigger, and it was hot and humid, too. Misery most of the time.



The next time we went to Maine, we stayed he



http://mainestayinn.com/



No annoying insects indoors or outdoors, beautiful rooms, great

breakfasts, and within walking distance of lots of sights and shopping

and the waterfront. My wife was *much* happier! We ate too many
meals at

Mabel's Lobster House, purportedly where President and Mrs. George
H.W.

Bush had many meals when he was healthier. Lobsters at the dock were

about $2.50 a pound. I braved walking into the water at a local beach

and got in about halfway up to my knees before the cold chased me
out. I

love the Maine coastline.



On the way back, we stayed at a B&B in Cambridge, Massachusetts, to
see

relatives and old friends. Nice enough place, but no match for the
Maine

Stay. No bugs.

That spot looks nice. I've always wanted to get down to the
Seashore Trolly Museum in that area. I was serious in the summer of
2011 but after contacting the museum found out that the main
attraction for me (Birney Safety Car) was judged too run down to put
on display or even to fix up in the immediate future.
The birney car was the only streetcar used in Halifax from about
1921 until 1949..the year I was born.


Kennebunkport can get a little crowded with tourists (like us), but when
we were there, in the height of the tourist season, it wasn't that bad.
There's lots to see in that part of Maine. LL Bean isn't that far away,
and it is worth a day's visit.

Yeah, that's what I want to see and do when I go to explore somewhere,
shop and go to a mall.



I travel with a wife who likes to shop, likes hot showers, likes beds.
You travel with your hand.

Ever wonder why people are nasty toward you?