On 02/12/2011 7:06 PM, Haywood Jablomie wrote:
On 2-Dec-2011, wrote:

The U.S. couldn't bail out a lemonade stand.

oh. you didnt follow the news over the last week. figures. you dont
know that the fed reduced transaction costs for european central banks
that swap euros for dollars

and that the stock market went up 350 points because of that

Trading stock is wagering - flipping fees is icing on the collective (US and
European) turd pile.

I agree it is wagering, but the avantage isn't to the house. Vegas has
percentages. The stock market is a zero sum game with inflation driving
growth and dividends driving income.

I say zero sum as if I buy $100000 in stock and then after 100% I have
$200000 the value change is zero. But does negate after income tax.

But if you are lucky and smart, you can get more winners than losers
there is better gains to be had. But where you beat the averages,
someone lost on the averages so I call it zero sum.

Output creates wealth, not government wagers, and you have no output. It's
like getting a "90 days same as cash" deal on your funeral - you're still
paying, and you're still dead. Europe cannot recover, and your government
(just as bankrupt) will be on the same submerged ship. When productive
countries stop buying flash paper from the US treasury, the US will stop the
bogus, make-believe "deals."

What's wrong with you clowns? Why do you insist on sending your 1970's wages
overseas?

Yep, government is about wealth consumption and wealth confiscation.
Nothing government does generates wealth. People who output stuff other
people pay for are the producers. And producers be farmers,
manufacturers, miners, oil drillers... I would love to tell 0bama that
bull**** isn't a wealth creating product.

USA nor Europe will recover without a further downturn. The fundamental
problems of government-bank fraud still exist. In fact worse because of
$15+ trillion of debt. And debt is pure consumption of wealth.

If Americans want a wealthy health economy, they have to get a grip and
realize that producers need to outnumber consumers. Currently America
is consumption is far higher than production.

Which means a fast recovery is just pure delusional bull****. Might get
a good dose of inflation, but inflation isn't wealth.

--
All successful people have one thing in common, if even for a moment
they think rationally.

"bpuharic" wrote in message
...

On Fri, 02 Dec 2011 18:43:17 -0700, Canuck57
wrote:

On 02/12/2011 5:50 PM, bpuharic wrote:
On Fri, 02 Dec 2011 17:26:45 -0700,
wrote:

On 02/12/2011 2:49 PM, bpuharic wrote:
On Fri, 2 Dec 2011 12:58:38 GMT, "Haywood Jablomie"
wrote:


Fact is USA wealth is dissipating fast as government consumption
outweighs economic production.

how things going in italy? greece? ireland? they doing OK?

Funny, a stock I had in an Irish company gave me a return this year of
17%. I don't do Greece or Italy, too screwed up with too many
fleabaggers. I did sell the Irish position though, too much Euro exposure.

cantcha just see ol' canuck, in his waders and flannel shirt, sittin'
around the pickle barrel, chaw in place, dazzlin' the locals with his
readers digest stories!! i bet he's the biggest guy at the local
general store


US Treasuries are junk paper,

golly. why are people demanding 7% for spanish and italian bonds and
only 1% for T bills?

oh. you dont know economics so dont know that's a reflection of
confidence

uh huh


especially the longer the term as you
can't get out without taking a bath when the **** really flies.

Watch careful, and remember this, in 2012 I predict any bond not
yielding over 7% with a remaining term greater than 4 years will take at
least a 25% depreciation hit in 2012 on the resale markets.

read that in 'sunset' magazine did you?


. As fast as we can. Just
reduced my USA holding 34% in fact. Check should be here in 10 days and
going to take more out in January to defer the taxes....

no one gives a **** about your reader's digest stories. the real world
functions on evidence and data, not supermarket tabloid stories

Funny, some people have open minds that read and rationalize, others
like yourself wallow in self pity and whining.

you confuse your self aggrandizing bull**** stories with reality.
that's what riight wingers do.


who tells us unions are evil and socialized medicine destroys a
country

Funny, people die waiting while those that can afford it that run the
system go to the USA.

http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/...al_sojour.html

gee...then why is longevity higher in canada than the US?

and how long do you wait in the US if you dont have health insurance?

tell you what, canuck, why not come to the US and try to get help here
with your canadian health insurance

see how far you get


----------------------------------------------------

T-bills are being bought by the same people that are borrowing money from
the Fed at 0.25% of less and then buying T-bills to hide the fact they can
not sell T-bills otherwise. Our problem is the fully bundled labor cost in
this country for manufacturing is an average of $65. We are priced out of
the manufacturing market. Why should someone with maybe a GED putting
lugnuts on a car going down a GM assembly line make more than you did as a
degreed engineer? Figuring the wages, and benefits, they are making more
than probably 80% of the engineers in the country.

"bpuharic" wrote in message
...

On Sat, 3 Dec 2011 02:01:09 GMT, "Haywood Jablomie"
wrote:


On 2-Dec-2011, bpuharic wrote:

or whatever he believes; he hasnt made a coherent argument yet

Big myth, people buying the debt. US Fed is fraud printing it.

hey genius. if people didnt want US debt we'd be giving interest rates
like italy and spain are paying

Try to grasp risk, and supply and demand. The U.S. pays higher interest
rates because your debt is risky - that makes demand low, or, you need to
pay a higher interest to sell it....well, the fact is, YOU pay the higher
interest, not the scumbags that took you down the hill.

You never should have skipped 4th grade economics.

??

let's see...the US pays ONE percent

italy pays FIVE percent

and to right wingers that proves ONE is more than FIVE!!!

HAHAHA conservatives cant even COUNT and they're lecturing about
ECONOMICS!!!

our RATES ARE LOW PRECISELY BECAUSE DEMAND IS HIGH!!

DUH!!!

christ. what the **** happened to conservatives who dont even know how
to count to FIVE???


---------------------------------------------------------

We are paying 1% to banks we loaned money to for 0% to buy the debt. We are
paying the extra in inflationary cost. The inflation cost is probably in
the 6% or better range, so we are actually paying 7% for that money.

On Fri, 2 Dec 2011 20:42:41 -0800, "Califbill"
wrote:

"bpuharic" wrote in message
.. .

On Fri, 02 Dec 2011 18:43:17 -0700, Canuck57
wrote:

gee...then why is longevity higher in canada than the US?

and how long do you wait in the US if you dont have health insurance?

tell you what, canuck, why not come to the US and try to get help here
with your canadian health insurance

see how far you get


----------------------------------------------------

T-bills are being bought by the same people that are borrowing money from
the Fed at 0.25% of less and then buying T-bills to hide the fact they can
not sell T-bills otherwise. Our problem is the fully bundled labor cost in
this country for manufacturing is an average of $65. We are priced out of
the manufacturing market. Why should someone with maybe a GED putting
lugnuts on a car going down a GM assembly line make more than you did as a
degreed engineer? Figuring the wages, and benefits, they are making more
than probably 80% of the engineers in the country.


he doesn't get it. he asserts no one's buying t bills

proof? uh...welll none. i guess he missed the part about bank A and
bank B

probably because he hasnt learned that part of the alphabet yet

On Fri, 2 Dec 2011 20:48:10 -0800, "Califbill"
wrote:

"bpuharic" wrote in message
.. .

On Sat, 3 Dec 2011 02:01:09 GMT, "Haywood Jablomie"
wrote:


??

let's see...the US pays ONE percent

italy pays FIVE percent

and to right wingers that proves ONE is more than FIVE!!!

HAHAHA conservatives cant even COUNT and they're lecturing about
ECONOMICS!!!

our RATES ARE LOW PRECISELY BECAUSE DEMAND IS HIGH!!

DUH!!!

christ. what the **** happened to conservatives who dont even know how
to count to FIVE???


---------------------------------------------------------

We are paying 1% to banks we loaned money to for 0% to buy the debt. We are
paying the extra in inflationary cost. The inflation cost is probably in
the 6% or better range, so we are actually paying 7% for that money.


dontcha love the right wing...

inflationary cost??

uh inflation's running about 2%

but to the right wing, 5% is less than 1% and 2% is 6%

and they want to run this country....

On 02/12/2011 7:11 PM, bpuharic wrote:
On Sat, 3 Dec 2011 02:01:09 GMT, "Haywood Jablomie"
wrote:


On 2-Dec-2011, wrote:

or whatever he believes; he hasnt made a coherent argument yet

Big myth, people buying the debt. US Fed is fraud printing it.

hey genius. if people didnt want US debt we'd be giving interest rates
like italy and spain are paying

Try to grasp risk, and supply and demand. The U.S. pays higher interest
rates because your debt is risky - that makes demand low, or, you need to
pay a higher interest to sell it....well, the fact is, YOU pay the higher
interest, not the scumbags that took you down the hill.

You never should have skipped 4th grade economics.

??

let's see...the US pays ONE percent

italy pays FIVE percent

and to right wingers that proves ONE is more than FIVE!!!

HAHAHA conservatives cant even COUNT and they're lecturing about
ECONOMICS!!!

our RATES ARE LOW PRECISELY BECAUSE DEMAND IS HIGH!!

DUH!!!

christ. what the **** happened to conservatives who dont even know how
to count to FIVE???

Rates are not low because demand is high.

Rates are low because US Fed lends out at 0%. Banks don't need to pay
interest to savers if they can get free money. There is no balance in
the lend-borrow market place.

And how if ****s you? Social security gets maybe 1% on the money it
lends to government. 6% is real unadjusted inflation. So in fact
Social Security loses 5% value per year.

Say $1000 in SS gets $10 interest. But it takes $1060 to buy the same
stuff a year later. In value terms Social security is being skimmed by DC.

Yep, they will collect more and pay out less in the long term.

Worse of t-bill holders using real money. You lend $1000 and get 1%,
$10. But it takes $1060 to buy he same stuff a year later. But wait,
you have to pay tax on the $10. So in fact you lose more than 5%.

Whole scale Bernanke-0bama fraud really. A zero rate economy of
depreciating value of money.

And part of why your going to be so ****ed in the end. Government isn't
going to be able to increase your social security, Medicare and other
benefits with inflation money print.

But you are just too ****ing stupid to see it. Good 0bama sheeples.
--
All successful people have one thing in common, if even for a moment
they think rationally.

On 02/12/2011 7:13 PM, bpuharic wrote:
On Fri, 02 Dec 2011 19:02:04 -0700,
wrote:

On 02/12/2011 6:25 PM, bpuharic wrote:
On Fri, 02 Dec 2011 18:10:04 -0700,
wrote:


Billionaires are moving abroad. even 0bama's buddy Warren Buffet is.

great. let 'em go. how's our economy doing with the greatest number of
billionaires in the world? we doing OK?


90% of the billionaires have significant holdings in gold, not much in
US treasuries and many have a high "liquid" cash only position. All have
big positions in one or more of China, Brazil, Russia, India, and other
non-Euro and non-US real-estate and businesses related to resources.

i betcha they're from UFO's too!!

Funny, if you like T-bills so much, you should buy them. But I know,
never seen a fleabagger put his own money where his mouth is. Fact is
t-bills are junk paper.

this from a guy who thinks our rates are LOW because no one wants to
buy our debt...

that's amazing...how truly stupid right whiners are

Look carefully, lenders using real money have not been lending real
money to government and decreasing now for 6 years. Government US Fed
now owns more US debt (directly or indirectly) as a percentage than any
time in history. System is running on fraud money creation.

It is the only way government can keep the rates low is to create more
no value inflation money. Started in earnest with the criminal
Bernanke's appointment and democrat 2006 congress.

They caused the US depression with it too. And zero-bama makes it worse
by debt spending so much of the no-value money putting it in
circulation. As it is spent, it generates inflation.

So look at it like government debt spending is driving inflation and
unemployment. It is materially correct in the current economic model.

As about 12% f the money is inflation, but wages are down at 2%
increases, a 10% is being made up in job loss and cost cutting. Not
sustainable ether as a point comes where it doesn't work, an then ****
really happens. And that point I think has been reached. Inflation in
2012 is going to go nuts.

--
All successful people have one thing in common, if even for a moment
they think rationally.

On Sat, 03 Dec 2011 00:32:01 -0700, Canuck57
wrote:

On 02/12/2011 7:11 PM, bpuharic wrote:
On Sat, 3 Dec 2011 02:01:09 GMT, "Haywood Jablomie"
wrote:



our RATES ARE LOW PRECISELY BECAUSE DEMAND IS HIGH!!

DUH!!!

christ. what the **** happened to conservatives who dont even know how
to count to FIVE???

Rates are not low because demand is high.

Rates are low because US Fed lends out at 0%.

so he starts out by saying rates are low because...

they're low!!! who knew!!

Banks don't need to pay
interest to savers if they can get free money. There is no balance in
the lend-borrow market place.

uh no. if they HAD to lend at a higher rate to attract buyers they
would. you see, that's how it works. you buy a bond because of the
rates. if one bond is selling at 1% and another at 5% which would YOU
buy??

oh. you're right wing. you dont know 5% is more than 1%. i forgot
about that.

and why are t bills at 1%? because they attract buyers at that rate,
vs the 5% of spanish and italian bonds.

and why are t bills selling at 1%? because people perceive them to be
more secure than spanish or italian bonds.

christ you're an idiot.


And how if ****s you? Social security gets maybe 1% on the money it
lends to government. 6% is real unadjusted inflation. So in fact
Social Security loses 5% value per year.

uh huh. 6% inflation? golly. where?

oh. in 1986. i forgot, again. you right wingers are 25 years in the
past.


Worse of t-bill holders using real money. You lend $1000 and get 1%,
$10. But it takes $1060 to buy he same stuff a year later. But wait,
you have to pay tax on the $10. So in fact you lose more than 5%.

and yet you could get FIVE percent by buying SPANISH debt

but no one is. why?

because US t bills are MORE SECURE than spanish bonds are

compared to youi, a bag of rocks is einstein

On Sat, 03 Dec 2011 00:42:05 -0700, Canuck57
wrote:

On 02/12/2011 7:13 PM, bpuharic wrote:
On Fri, 02 Dec 2011 19:02:04 -0700,
wrote:

this from a guy who thinks our rates are LOW because no one wants to
buy our debt...

that's amazing...how truly stupid right whiners are

Look carefully, lenders using real money have not been lending real
money to government and decreasing now for 6 years. Government US Fed
now owns more US debt (directly or indirectly) as a percentage than any
time in history. System is running on fraud money creation.

yeah the socialists of the rich, using the middle class as a piggy
bank, has destroyed the middle class, with the support of the right
wing.

YOU are responsible for this. YOU SOCIALISTS did this. your insistence
that the middle class sit back and take it while the rich get richer
THEN bailout the rich, with SOCIALISM, is at fault.


It is the only way government can keep the rates low is to create more
no value inflation money. Started in earnest with the criminal
Bernanke's appointment and democrat 2006 congress.

inflation money.

golly. 2% wow.

On 12/3/11 7:58 AM, bpuharic wrote:
On Sat, 03 Dec 2011 00:32:01 -0700,
wrote:

On 02/12/2011 7:11 PM, bpuharic wrote:
On Sat, 3 Dec 2011 02:01:09 GMT, "Haywood Jablomie"
wrote:



our RATES ARE LOW PRECISELY BECAUSE DEMAND IS HIGH!!

DUH!!!

christ. what the **** happened to conservatives who dont even know how
to count to FIVE???

Rates are not low because demand is high.

Rates are low because US Fed lends out at 0%.

so he starts out by saying rates are low because...

they're low!!! who knew!!

Banks don't need to pay
interest to savers if they can get free money. There is no balance in
the lend-borrow market place.

uh no. if they HAD to lend at a higher rate to attract buyers they
would. you see, that's how it works. you buy a bond because of the
rates. if one bond is selling at 1% and another at 5% which would YOU
buy??

oh. you're right wing. you dont know 5% is more than 1%. i forgot
about that.

and why are t bills at 1%? because they attract buyers at that rate,
vs the 5% of spanish and italian bonds.

and why are t bills selling at 1%? because people perceive them to be
more secure than spanish or italian bonds.

christ you're an idiot.


And how if ****s you? Social security gets maybe 1% on the money it
lends to government. 6% is real unadjusted inflation. So in fact
Social Security loses 5% value per year.

uh huh. 6% inflation? golly. where?

oh. in 1986. i forgot, again. you right wingers are 25 years in the
past.


Worse of t-bill holders using real money. You lend $1000 and get 1%,
$10. But it takes $1060 to buy he same stuff a year later. But wait,
you have to pay tax on the $10. So in fact you lose more than 5%.

and yet you could get FIVE percent by buying SPANISH debt

but no one is. why?

because US t bills are MORE SECURE than spanish bonds are

compared to youi, a bag of rocks is einstein


You don't actually believe Canuckles is an "investor," do you?

--
http://flickr.com/gp/hakr/8272ug