On Fri, 7 Jan 2011 18:19:01 -0800, "Califbill"
wrote:

wrote in message ...

On Fri, 07 Jan 2011 09:27:24 -0500, "A.True.Boater"
wrote:

On 1/7/11 9:14 AM, I am Tosk wrote:
And anybody who has raced knows if you are going off the road, hit the
gas and get that back end between you and the guardrail. I did this
without even thinking about it a few years back when I hit the ice in my
Wrangler... I slid long enough to know I wasn't catching it, so as I
came around I stayed in the throttle t

There are advantages of front wheel drive which include

Lower cost - you have reduced the cost of the driveshaft and additional
hardware. The has an advantage of providing better fuel economy due to
weight reduction.

Cabin Space You have increased the space inside of the car, by removing
the drivetrain

Traction - with the weight of the engine over the drive wheels you can
have better traction in slippery conditions

That being said, there are many automotive enthusiasts and engineers
who agree with you that front wheel drive sucks. Auto design like boat
design is a series of compromises.

Auto manufacturers like it because the whole drive train comes in on a
pallet and they slam it in in one piece. With standardized mounting
points it becomes a commodity item. That is why you see so few engines
these days.


Reply:
They also like it as you have a flat floorpan. Ease of interior design and
more legroom in a smaller car. More wear on the front wheels as they are
both steering and powering. Means more traction required in the same
conditions for the front tires. More complicated transmission to wheel
coupling. But is quicker to assemble as a complete car. No drive shafts to
connect, no extra transmission to install. But I do not mind driving a
front wheel drive car, but would be much harder to drift in a turn. Plus
all of the front wheel drive cars I have owned, including the newest a 2009
Venza all torque steer.

Is the Venza about the same as the Lexus 350 (or whatever it is now)? I'm
thinking of one of those for MrsH when she's tired of her Highlander. How do you
like the Venza?

"L G" wrote in message
...

Tim wrote:
On Jan 6, 12:39 pm, wrote:


The Land Rover 110 used to be the hot ticket but the Toyotas are a lot
more
dependable and handle a lot better.


The old one liner:

"Did you hear about the guy that bought a new Land Rover and it didn't
leak any oil so he kept taking it back and hounding the dealer till
they got it right?"

They have come a long way and the price tag will prove that!

Reply:
Worked with a guy in the 90's who hated Land Rover. He said, $80k vehicle
and the fan is squealing. They will not fix it under extended warrantee as
they say the fan is still working blowing air.
Was over a $1000 to fix the fan as they had to pull the dash. He sold it
and bought a Tahoe. Said is was 2x the car at 1/2 the price. I would have
sued the dealer and land Rover for both damages and punitive damages. Big
damages.

"YukonBound" wrote in message
...



"John H" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 7 Jan 2011 18:19:01 -0800, "Califbill"

wrote:

wrote in message ...

On Fri, 07 Jan 2011 09:27:24 -0500, "A.True.Boater"
wrote:

On 1/7/11 9:14 AM, I am Tosk wrote:
And anybody who has raced knows if you are going off the road, hit the
gas and get that back end between you and the guardrail. I did this
without even thinking about it a few years back when I hit the ice in
my
Wrangler... I slid long enough to know I wasn't catching it, so as I
came around I stayed in the throttle t

There are advantages of front wheel drive which include

Lower cost - you have reduced the cost of the driveshaft and additional
hardware. The has an advantage of providing better fuel economy due to
weight reduction.

Cabin Space You have increased the space inside of the car, by removing
the drivetrain

Traction - with the weight of the engine over the drive wheels you can
have better traction in slippery conditions

That being said, there are many automotive enthusiasts and engineers
who agree with you that front wheel drive sucks. Auto design like boat
design is a series of compromises.

Auto manufacturers like it because the whole drive train comes in on a
pallet and they slam it in in one piece. With standardized mounting
points it becomes a commodity item. That is why you see so few engines
these days.


Reply:
They also like it as you have a flat floorpan. Ease of interior design
and
more legroom in a smaller car. More wear on the front wheels as they are
both steering and powering. Means more traction required in the same
conditions for the front tires. More complicated transmission to wheel
coupling. But is quicker to assemble as a complete car. No drive shafts
to
connect, no extra transmission to install. But I do not mind driving a
front wheel drive car, but would be much harder to drift in a turn. Plus
all of the front wheel drive cars I have owned, including the newest a
2009
Venza all torque steer.

Is the Venza about the same as the Lexus 350 (or whatever it is now)? I'm
thinking of one of those for MrsH when she's tired of her Highlander. How
do you
like the Venza?

~~ Snerk ~~ Least reliable of the Toyotas...... better re-new your
subscription to Consumers Reports.
Another Toyota where the windshield seems to cave in on you.


Reply: Who the crap believes CR? They report to the highest bidder. Wife
loves the Venza. Gets worse mileage than I think it should. About 22-24 on
the highway. Buddy, same engine in a Avalon, gets about 30 mpg. Road noise
with the 20" tires is louder than I think it should be. Good visibility,
nice ride, good handling. Wife and I disliked the Highlander for a couple
reasons. Box with no style and the rear visibility with the rear seat
headrests sucks. Reliability? No problems in 2 years and 24000 miles.
Only recall is floor mats. Actually had one problem fixed at first service.
The overhead switch for garage door opener was bad. Hers in fully loaded.
Only thing it does not have that we wanted was seat heaters.

On Sun, 9 Jan 2011 20:16:42 -0800, "Califbill"
wrote:

"YukonBound" wrote in message
.. .



"John H" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 7 Jan 2011 18:19:01 -0800, "Califbill"

wrote:

wrote in message ...

On Fri, 07 Jan 2011 09:27:24 -0500, "A.True.Boater"
wrote:

On 1/7/11 9:14 AM, I am Tosk wrote:
And anybody who has raced knows if you are going off the road, hit the
gas and get that back end between you and the guardrail. I did this
without even thinking about it a few years back when I hit the ice in
my
Wrangler... I slid long enough to know I wasn't catching it, so as I
came around I stayed in the throttle t

There are advantages of front wheel drive which include

Lower cost - you have reduced the cost of the driveshaft and additional
hardware. The has an advantage of providing better fuel economy due to
weight reduction.

Cabin Space You have increased the space inside of the car, by removing
the drivetrain

Traction - with the weight of the engine over the drive wheels you can
have better traction in slippery conditions

That being said, there are many automotive enthusiasts and engineers
who agree with you that front wheel drive sucks. Auto design like boat
design is a series of compromises.

Auto manufacturers like it because the whole drive train comes in on a
pallet and they slam it in in one piece. With standardized mounting
points it becomes a commodity item. That is why you see so few engines
these days.


Reply:
They also like it as you have a flat floorpan. Ease of interior design
and
more legroom in a smaller car. More wear on the front wheels as they are
both steering and powering. Means more traction required in the same
conditions for the front tires. More complicated transmission to wheel
coupling. But is quicker to assemble as a complete car. No drive shafts
to
connect, no extra transmission to install. But I do not mind driving a
front wheel drive car, but would be much harder to drift in a turn. Plus
all of the front wheel drive cars I have owned, including the newest a
2009
Venza all torque steer.

Is the Venza about the same as the Lexus 350 (or whatever it is now)? I'm
thinking of one of those for MrsH when she's tired of her Highlander. How
do you
like the Venza?

~~ Snerk ~~ Least reliable of the Toyotas...... better re-new your
subscription to Consumers Reports.
Another Toyota where the windshield seems to cave in on you.


Reply: Who the crap believes CR? They report to the highest bidder. Wife
loves the Venza. Gets worse mileage than I think it should. About 22-24 on
the highway. Buddy, same engine in a Avalon, gets about 30 mpg. Road noise
with the 20" tires is louder than I think it should be. Good visibility,
nice ride, good handling. Wife and I disliked the Highlander for a couple
reasons. Box with no style and the rear visibility with the rear seat
headrests sucks. Reliability? No problems in 2 years and 24000 miles.
Only recall is floor mats. Actually had one problem fixed at first service.
The overhead switch for garage door opener was bad. Hers in fully loaded.
Only thing it does not have that we wanted was seat heaters.

The headrests for my wife's rear seats are in the garage somewhere. She doesn't
carry anyone back there, so I'm not too worried about a lawsuit.

"John H" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 9 Jan 2011 20:16:42 -0800, "Califbill"

wrote:

"YukonBound" wrote in message
. ..



"John H" wrote in message
. ..
On Fri, 7 Jan 2011 18:19:01 -0800, "Califbill"

wrote:

wrote in message ...

On Fri, 07 Jan 2011 09:27:24 -0500, "A.True.Boater"
wrote:

On 1/7/11 9:14 AM, I am Tosk wrote:
And anybody who has raced knows if you are going off the road, hit
the
gas and get that back end between you and the guardrail. I did this
without even thinking about it a few years back when I hit the ice in
my
Wrangler... I slid long enough to know I wasn't catching it, so as I
came around I stayed in the throttle t

There are advantages of front wheel drive which include

Lower cost - you have reduced the cost of the driveshaft and additional
hardware. The has an advantage of providing better fuel economy due to
weight reduction.

Cabin Space You have increased the space inside of the car, by removing
the drivetrain

Traction - with the weight of the engine over the drive wheels you can
have better traction in slippery conditions

That being said, there are many automotive enthusiasts and engineers
who agree with you that front wheel drive sucks. Auto design like boat
design is a series of compromises.

Auto manufacturers like it because the whole drive train comes in on a
pallet and they slam it in in one piece. With standardized mounting
points it becomes a commodity item. That is why you see so few engines
these days.


Reply:
They also like it as you have a flat floorpan. Ease of interior design
and
more legroom in a smaller car. More wear on the front wheels as they
are
both steering and powering. Means more traction required in the same
conditions for the front tires. More complicated transmission to wheel
coupling. But is quicker to assemble as a complete car. No drive
shafts
to
connect, no extra transmission to install. But I do not mind driving a
front wheel drive car, but would be much harder to drift in a turn.
Plus
all of the front wheel drive cars I have owned, including the newest a
2009
Venza all torque steer.

Is the Venza about the same as the Lexus 350 (or whatever it is now)?
I'm
thinking of one of those for MrsH when she's tired of her Highlander.
How
do you
like the Venza?

~~ Snerk ~~ Least reliable of the Toyotas...... better re-new your
subscription to Consumers Reports.
Another Toyota where the windshield seems to cave in on you.


Reply: Who the crap believes CR? They report to the highest bidder.
Wife
loves the Venza. Gets worse mileage than I think it should. About 22-24
on
the highway. Buddy, same engine in a Avalon, gets about 30 mpg. Road
noise
with the 20" tires is louder than I think it should be. Good visibility,
nice ride, good handling. Wife and I disliked the Highlander for a couple
reasons. Box with no style and the rear visibility with the rear seat
headrests sucks. Reliability? No problems in 2 years and 24000 miles.
Only recall is floor mats. Actually had one problem fixed at first
service.
The overhead switch for garage door opener was bad. Hers in fully loaded.
Only thing it does not have that we wanted was seat heaters.

The headrests for my wife's rear seats are in the garage somewhere. She
doesn't
carry anyone back there, so I'm not too worried about a lawsuit.

Not against the law down there to remove or alter safety equipment on an
automobile??

In article ,
says...

"John H" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 9 Jan 2011 20:16:42 -0800, "Califbill"

wrote:

"YukonBound" wrote in message
. ..



"John H" wrote in message
. ..
On Fri, 7 Jan 2011 18:19:01 -0800, "Califbill"

wrote:

wrote in message ...

On Fri, 07 Jan 2011 09:27:24 -0500, "A.True.Boater"
wrote:

On 1/7/11 9:14 AM, I am Tosk wrote:
And anybody who has raced knows if you are going off the road, hit
the
gas and get that back end between you and the guardrail. I did this
without even thinking about it a few years back when I hit the ice in
my
Wrangler... I slid long enough to know I wasn't catching it, so as I
came around I stayed in the throttle t

There are advantages of front wheel drive which include

Lower cost - you have reduced the cost of the driveshaft and additional
hardware. The has an advantage of providing better fuel economy due to
weight reduction.

Cabin Space You have increased the space inside of the car, by removing
the drivetrain

Traction - with the weight of the engine over the drive wheels you can
have better traction in slippery conditions

That being said, there are many automotive enthusiasts and engineers
who agree with you that front wheel drive sucks. Auto design like boat
design is a series of compromises.

Auto manufacturers like it because the whole drive train comes in on a
pallet and they slam it in in one piece. With standardized mounting
points it becomes a commodity item. That is why you see so few engines
these days.


Reply:
They also like it as you have a flat floorpan. Ease of interior design
and
more legroom in a smaller car. More wear on the front wheels as they
are
both steering and powering. Means more traction required in the same
conditions for the front tires. More complicated transmission to wheel
coupling. But is quicker to assemble as a complete car. No drive
shafts
to
connect, no extra transmission to install. But I do not mind driving a
front wheel drive car, but would be much harder to drift in a turn.
Plus
all of the front wheel drive cars I have owned, including the newest a
2009
Venza all torque steer.

Is the Venza about the same as the Lexus 350 (or whatever it is now)?
I'm
thinking of one of those for MrsH when she's tired of her Highlander.
How
do you
like the Venza?

~~ Snerk ~~ Least reliable of the Toyotas...... better re-new your
subscription to Consumers Reports.
Another Toyota where the windshield seems to cave in on you.


Reply: Who the crap believes CR? They report to the highest bidder.
Wife
loves the Venza. Gets worse mileage than I think it should. About 22-24
on
the highway. Buddy, same engine in a Avalon, gets about 30 mpg. Road
noise
with the 20" tires is louder than I think it should be. Good visibility,
nice ride, good handling. Wife and I disliked the Highlander for a couple
reasons. Box with no style and the rear visibility with the rear seat
headrests sucks. Reliability? No problems in 2 years and 24000 miles.
Only recall is floor mats. Actually had one problem fixed at first
service.
The overhead switch for garage door opener was bad. Hers in fully loaded.
Only thing it does not have that we wanted was seat heaters.

The headrests for my wife's rear seats are in the garage somewhere. She
doesn't
carry anyone back there, so I'm not too worried about a lawsuit.

Not against the law down there to remove or alter safety equipment on an
automobile??

It's not safety equipment, dumb ass.

On Mon, 10 Jan 2011 16:21:24 -0500, wrote:

On Mon, 10 Jan 2011 15:38:46 -0400, "YukonBound"
wrote:

The headrests for my wife's rear seats are in the garage somewhere. She
doesn't
carry anyone back there, so I'm not too worried about a lawsuit.

Not against the law down there to remove or alter safety equipment on an
automobile??

Short answer ... no.

It might affect a licensed dealer if they resell the car off the used
lot but I doubt it, particularly if they have an "as is" sticker on
it.
BTW in Florida you can also scrape off that USCG capacity sticker on
your boat if you want. It only applies to manufacturers and the
original sale.
This came up on the pontoon forum.

What a stupid question. There's another reason to be thankful for filtering
Donnie.

On 1/10/11 5:21 PM, John H wrote:
On Mon, 10 Jan 2011 16:21:24 -0500, wrote:

On Mon, 10 Jan 2011 15:38:46 -0400, "YukonBound"
wrote:

The headrests for my wife's rear seats are in the garage somewhere. She
doesn't
carry anyone back there, so I'm not too worried about a lawsuit.

Not against the law down there to remove or alter safety equipment on an
automobile??

Short answer ... no.

It might affect a licensed dealer if they resell the car off the used
lot but I doubt it, particularly if they have an "as is" sticker on
it.
BTW in Florida you can also scrape off that USCG capacity sticker on
your boat if you want. It only applies to manufacturers and the
original sale.
This came up on the pontoon forum.

What a stupid question. There's another reason to be thankful for filtering
Donnie.


Herring...ever the asshole.

On Mon, 10 Jan 2011 17:21:21 -0500, John H
wrote:
On Mon, 10 Jan 2011 16:21:24 -0500, wrote:


On Mon, 10 Jan 2011 15:38:46 -0400, "YukonBound"
wrote:

The headrests for my wife's rear seats are in the garage
somewhere. She
doesn't
carry anyone back there, so I'm not too worried about a lawsuit.

Not against the law down there to remove or alter safety
equipment on an
automobile??

Short answer ... no.

It might affect a licensed dealer if they resell the car off the
used
lot but I doubt it, particularly if they have an "as is" sticker on
it.
BTW in Florida you can also scrape off that USCG capacity sticker
on
your boat if you want. It only applies to manufacturers and the
original sale.
This came up on the pontoon forum.


What a stupid question. There's another reason to be thankful for
filtering
Donnie.

Donny who?

BAR wrote:
In articledoadnbqvuu3yhLTQnZ2dnUVZ_t6dnZ2d@giganews. com,
says...

wrote:

On Fri, 07 Jan 2011 06:18:37 -0500,
wrote:



On 1/6/11 10:25 PM, I am Tosk wrote:



I still hate front wheel drive.. Just doesn't make sense to have the
steering and drive on the same axle,


Please explain.


You basically have 2 tires doing all the work from one end of the car.
It is a lot easier to break them loose and be totally out of control.
My Prelude can get pretty squirrely when you are driving it hard.


As a teenager I always wanted a Prelude. The 4WS was revolutionary back
then.

The Mitsubishi 3000GT/Dodge Stealth was the next one but it was also out
of reach financially at the time.

A friend of mine who actually had two PhD's at the time bought one of
those Dodge Stealth's thinking that it was going to be a pussy magnet.
About 6 months after he bought it he said that the only people attracted
to the 3000GT/Stealth were 13 year old boys.

I didn't buy the 4WS Prelude. It was a such a different feel when
changing lanes on the Interstate but, you could turn one around in
little more than its body length from a stop.



The 3000GT looked better than the Dodge IMO. They were ahead of their
time technologically. That VR-4 produced 300hp in a fairly light car.