wrote in message
...
On Tue, 20 Jul 2010 22:01:57 -0400, bpuharic wrote:

On Tue, 20 Jul 2010 19:35:26 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 20 Jul 2010 17:40:56 -0400, bpuharic wrote:

\\\\\\\ 20 Jul 2010 06:52:21 -0400, wrote:



The SCOTUS also says the cop can make everyone get out, show ID, get
searched for weapons, search the car for weapons and run a dog through
it. Somehow, you immigration status seems pretty minimal at this
point.

he can demand ID. the passengers dont have to show him ****.

That is not true.
MARYLAND v. WILSON says they can all be rousted and the passenger
compartment of the car searched "for weapons". While that is going on
they can have a dog search the car too. ILLINOIS v. CABALLES.
At that point the cop will "ask" everyone for ID.
Have you ever said no to a cop on the side of the road?

yeah. i told a NJSP trooper to go get ****ed after he ****ed me off

How long did it take for the swelling to go down?
Or was he back in his car driving away when you said it?

He was back in his car, driving away, with bpuharic in the back.

In article ,
says...

On Tue, 20 Jul 2010 17:46:50 -0400, bpuharic wrote:

On Tue, 20 Jul 2010 17:06:59 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 20 Jul 2010 10:13:53 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:



In most states you have to show proof of insurance papers also. Or you
get
to walk to the nearest bus stop as the car is towed. With a ticket issued
to you. More than just showing your license to the cop. And the license
will show your citizenship.

The SCOTUS also says the cop can make everyone get out, show ID, get
searched for weapons, search the car for weapons and run a dog through
it. Somehow, you immigration status seems pretty minimal at this
point.

So, why is there a need for a new AZ law? It doesn't do anything for border
security.

Why do you care? You don't live in Arizona.

i lived there. never saw a problem with the illegals.

You didn't see a problem with your finances either. Maybe your shades are a
couple shades too dark?

I was thinking the same thing. A brief statement from Bob here can start
a whole new line of conversation, but chances are, it's just another
German Screwdriver. If he really did live, there, and really did see any
problem, do you really trust he would admit it here? It just wouldn't
suit his agenda. Now if you are discussing hypothetical, then, and only
maybe...

--
Rowdy Mouse Racing - We race for cheese!

In article , says...

nom=de=plume wrote:

"bpuharic" wrote in message
...
\\\\\\\ 20 Jul 2010 06:52:21 -0400, wrote:



The SCOTUS also says the cop can make everyone get out, show ID, get
searched for weapons, search the car for weapons and run a dog through
it. Somehow, you immigration status seems pretty minimal at this
point.

he can demand ID. the passengers dont have to show him ****.

Most police (at least out here) will accept your DL number if you don't
have your ID. It's happened to me once or twice when I left the DL at home.


Neat trick remembering your DL number. Or a crock.

Jim - "Can I see you license, m'aam. Or perhaps a memorized number?"

That's funny. I have a thing with remembering numbers so I know mine, my
wifes, our ss numbers for the family and can recite all the phone
numbers of my parents friends and neighbors when I was a small child,
etc. etc. etc...

--
Rowdy Mouse Racing - We race for cheese!

In article ,
says...

On Tue, 20 Jul 2010 17:40:56 -0400, bpuharic wrote:

\\\\\\\ 20 Jul 2010 06:52:21 -0400, wrote:



The SCOTUS also says the cop can make everyone get out, show ID, get
searched for weapons, search the car for weapons and run a dog through
it. Somehow, you immigration status seems pretty minimal at this
point.

he can demand ID. the passengers dont have to show him ****.

That is not true.
MARYLAND v. WILSON says they can all be rousted and the passenger
compartment of the car searched "for weapons". While that is going on
they can have a dog search the car too. ILLINOIS v. CABALLES.
At that point the cop will "ask" everyone for ID.
Have you ever said no to a cop on the side of the road?
Usually you end up in cuffs.
You can macho this as much as you like about what you would do but I
bet you haven't actually done any of it.

Man, that guy is so full of doo. Everyone knows if a Cop asks for your
ID you have to give it to him. Now one of the states out here on the
east coast just had a court hold up that the cops have to speak the
language of the person they pull over... This is such an opportunity for
fraud, I used to see my FIL pretend he didn't speak English when it was
convenient, do you think this will be any different?

--
Rowdy Mouse Racing - We race for cheese!

On Tue, 20 Jul 2010 23:49:05 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 20 Jul 2010 22:01:57 -0400, bpuharic wrote:

On Tue, 20 Jul 2010 19:35:26 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 20 Jul 2010 17:40:56 -0400, bpuharic wrote:

\\\\\\\ 20 Jul 2010 06:52:21 -0400, wrote:



The SCOTUS also says the cop can make everyone get out, show ID, get
searched for weapons, search the car for weapons and run a dog through
it. Somehow, you immigration status seems pretty minimal at this
point.

he can demand ID. the passengers dont have to show him ****.

That is not true.
MARYLAND v. WILSON says they can all be rousted and the passenger
compartment of the car searched "for weapons". While that is going on
they can have a dog search the car too. ILLINOIS v. CABALLES.
At that point the cop will "ask" everyone for ID.
Have you ever said no to a cop on the side of the road?

yeah. i told a NJSP trooper to go get ****ed after he ****ed me off

How long did it take for the swelling to go down?
Or was he back in his car driving away when you said it?

actually, once he gives you the ticket (which he had), there's not a
whole lot he can do about it. my home town of pittsburgh has, over the
years, tried to arrest people for swearing at cops. even took it to
the SCOTUS

the cops lost every time

"nom=de=plume" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...
On Tue, 20 Jul 2010 18:49:09 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:


wrote in message
...
On Tue, 20 Jul 2010 16:47:21 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

That is not true.
MARYLAND v. WILSON says they can all be rousted and the passenger
compartment of the car searched "for weapons". While that is going on
they can have a dog search the car too. ILLINOIS v. CABALLES.
At that point the cop will "ask" everyone for ID.
Have you ever said no to a cop on the side of the road?
Usually you end up in cuffs.
You can macho this as much as you like about what you would do but I
bet you haven't actually done any of it.

I've said no to cops on the side of the road before... Question: Have
you
been drinking? Answer: No. Question: Are you single? Answer: Ummm...
lol


The first one is the right answer to a question, the second one can go
either way. We have had cops harassing women here too. It is less
likely they get away with it these days but my nieces have some
stories where it didn't really work out.

The real question is whether you can say no when a cop "asks" you
something like "can I look in your trunk" or "can I see your ID".
A "no" is usually seen as reasonable suspicion that you are doing
something illegal. If you weren't you just have a long day and they
eventually send you on your way. If you are doing ANYTHING wrong, you
get hooked up and taken in.

You can say no, with the caveat that if he looks anyway, he better have
actual probably cause. The "can I see your ID" goes back to asking for
the
DL. Driving is a privilege not a right, so he's within bounds to ask for
it.
If you're walking down the street, there is a higher standard of probably
cause for asking for ID. That's the problem with the AZ law (well, one of
the problems).


You ignore the basic problem. It will always be your word against the
cop's that you said no. You will lose that one.
If your word was equal to the cop, there wouldn't be any traffic
tickets. They are all your word against his.

Well sure, but in our system you're innocent until proven guilty. Judges
_tend_ to believe the police over regular citizens, but he would still
have to produce something that caused him to get in your face.. Not that
it's much of an example, but I've seen people win in traffic court against
the testimony of an expert (police) witness.

Spend a lot of time in traffic court, do ya?

--
Harold

On 7/21/10 11:25 AM, wrote:
On Wed, 21 Jul 2010 06:10:12 -0400, I am Tosk
wrote:

In ,
says...

On Tue, 20 Jul 2010 17:40:56 -0400, wrote:

\\\\\\\ 20 Jul 2010 06:52:21 -0400, wrote:



The SCOTUS also says the cop can make everyone get out, show ID, get
searched for weapons, search the car for weapons and run a dog through
it. Somehow, you immigration status seems pretty minimal at this
point.

he can demand ID. the passengers dont have to show him ****.

That is not true.
MARYLAND v. WILSON says they can all be rousted and the passenger
compartment of the car searched "for weapons". While that is going on
they can have a dog search the car too. ILLINOIS v. CABALLES.
At that point the cop will "ask" everyone for ID.
Have you ever said no to a cop on the side of the road?
Usually you end up in cuffs.
You can macho this as much as you like about what you would do but I
bet you haven't actually done any of it.

Man, that guy is so full of doo. Everyone knows if a Cop asks for your
ID you have to give it to him. Now one of the states out here on the
east coast just had a court hold up that the cops have to speak the
language of the person they pull over... This is such an opportunity for
fraud, I used to see my FIL pretend he didn't speak English when it was
convenient, do you think this will be any different?

I doubt that would be all that "convenient" since they would just
detain you on the side of the road until they came up with a cop who
spoke a language you recognized. These days they probably have some
translation software on their computer in the car. There is always
google.

When in doubt, they can just take you in. The only reason you get to
sign a ticket and get to go on your way is the are acknowledging you
understand the charge and that you understand you are obligated to pay
or appear in court. If the cop can't assure himself that you have been
properly notified of this, he can take you to the station until you do
understand and acknowledge that.
I think when those cuffs click around your wrists your english might
start to improve.


Not Scott...remember, he doesn't get along with cops. He got tossed on
the stairs at his local cop shop and got relieved of $650...his own words.

In article ,
says...

On Wed, 21 Jul 2010 06:10:12 -0400, I am Tosk
wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Tue, 20 Jul 2010 17:40:56 -0400, bpuharic wrote:

\\\\\\\ 20 Jul 2010 06:52:21 -0400, wrote:



The SCOTUS also says the cop can make everyone get out, show ID, get
searched for weapons, search the car for weapons and run a dog through
it. Somehow, you immigration status seems pretty minimal at this
point.

he can demand ID. the passengers dont have to show him ****.

That is not true.
MARYLAND v. WILSON says they can all be rousted and the passenger
compartment of the car searched "for weapons". While that is going on
they can have a dog search the car too. ILLINOIS v. CABALLES.
At that point the cop will "ask" everyone for ID.
Have you ever said no to a cop on the side of the road?
Usually you end up in cuffs.
You can macho this as much as you like about what you would do but I
bet you haven't actually done any of it.

Man, that guy is so full of doo. Everyone knows if a Cop asks for your
ID you have to give it to him. Now one of the states out here on the
east coast just had a court hold up that the cops have to speak the
language of the person they pull over... This is such an opportunity for
fraud, I used to see my FIL pretend he didn't speak English when it was
convenient, do you think this will be any different?

I doubt that would be all that "convenient" since they would just
detain you on the side of the road until they came up with a cop who
spoke a language you recognized. These days they probably have some
translation software on their computer in the car. There is always
google.

When in doubt, they can just take you in. The only reason you get to
sign a ticket and get to go on your way is the are acknowledging you
understand the charge and that you understand you are obligated to pay
or appear in court. If the cop can't assure himself that you have been
properly notified of this, he can take you to the station until you do
understand and acknowledge that.
I think when those cuffs click around your wrists your english might
start to improve.

Or the strategy is to overwhelm the system so cops don't bother being so
through. You know "overwhelming the system" is a tactic used by many
groups trying to avoid obeying the laws...

--
Rowdy Mouse Racing - We race for cheese!

On Wed, 21 Jul 2010 06:10:12 -0400, I am Tosk
wrote:


Man, that guy is so full of doo. Everyone knows if a Cop asks for your
ID you have to give it to him. Now one of the states out here on the
east coast just had a court hold up that the cops have to speak the
language of the person they pull over... This is such an opportunity for
fraud, I used to see my FIL pretend he didn't speak English when it was
convenient, do you think this will be any different?

reallly? everyone know this?


http://flexyourrights.org/faq/120

When do I have to show police my ID?

This is a tricky issue. As a general principle, citizens who are
minding their own business are not obligated to "show their papers" to
police. In fact, there is no law requiring citizens to carry
identification of any kind.

Nonetheless, carrying an ID is generally required if you’re driving a
vehicle or a passenger on a commercial airline. These requirements
have been upheld on the premise that individuals who prefer not to
carry ID can choose not to drive or fly.

if you're suspected of a crime, cops CAN require you to show ID:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiibel_...ourt_of_Nevada

On Wed, 21 Jul 2010 18:04:01 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 21 Jul 2010 17:38:45 -0400, bpuharic wrote:

On Wed, 21 Jul 2010 06:10:12 -0400, I am Tosk
wrote:


Man, that guy is so full of doo. Everyone knows if a Cop asks for your
ID you have to give it to him. Now one of the states out here on the
east coast just had a court hold up that the cops have to speak the
language of the person they pull over... This is such an opportunity for
fraud, I used to see my FIL pretend he didn't speak English when it was
convenient, do you think this will be any different?

reallly? everyone know this?


http://flexyourrights.org/faq/120

When do I have to show police my ID?

This is a tricky issue. As a general principle, citizens who are
minding their own business are not obligated to "show their papers" to
police. In fact, there is no law requiring citizens to carry
identification of any kind.

Nonetheless, carrying an ID is generally required if you’re driving a
vehicle or a passenger on a commercial airline. These requirements
have been upheld on the premise that individuals who prefer not to
carry ID can choose not to drive or fly.

if you're suspected of a crime, cops CAN require you to show ID:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiibel_...ourt_of_Nevada

That is a loophole you can drive a Crown Vic through. Terry v Ohio
made "reasonable suspicion" a pretty low bar to jump over.

agreed. it's the difference between having cops mind their own
business and 'VHERE ARE YOUR PAPERZ!!"