Capt. JG wrote:

"JimC" wrote in message
...
I really doubt than any even half-way rational skipper would

consider taking a Mac offshore under such conditions (with the boat
overloaded, with several adults standing on the deck, with the skipper and
half the guests drunk, and with the ballast tank empty). It's an anomaly
that doesn't really relate to the present discussion.



Such conditions? Calm waters?

You are again evading the substance of my post, Ganz. "Calm waters" was
only one factor out of a number of more critical ones, including: drunk
skipper, negligent owner, drunk guests, ignorant skipper who wasn't
familiar with the boat, empty ballast tank (apparently not checked by
either the skipper or the owner), motoring at night under varying
lighting (fireworks) boat overloaded, boat top heavy with several drunk
adults standing on the deck, some apparently holding on to the mast, and
infants left in the cabin. Regarding the "calm waters" issue,
apparently the skipper was trying to maneuver around other boats also in
the area to watch the fireworks. In any event, he turned the boat at
excessive speed under the conditions.

Ganz, are you intentionally or maliciously distorting the points made in
my notes, or are you just stupid?

Jim

Capt. JG wrote:

"JimC" wrote in message
...


Capt. JG wrote:


"Marty" wrote in message
news:YtmdnZGvK50d65fVnZ2dnUVZ_qqgnZ2d@giganews. com...


JimC wrote:


Capt. JG wrote:



"JimC" wrote in message
...
snipping

Zzzzzz... this thread is dead Jim... LOL


The string is dead? Well, some of us have interests and
responsibilities beyond participating in such a discussion. Also, I
spent the afternoon this Saturday sailing my boat, something I don't
seem often to see with respect to you and your buddies posting in this
string. - It's strange, but you and most of your anti-Mac buddies seem
to get their jollies from bashing us Mac sailors, whereas we Mac sailors
get pleasure from sailing our Macs.

But I'll get back to you, and also to your Mac-bashing buddies. That's a
promise.

Getting a bit paranoid there Jim. Nobody was bashing Macs, just bashing
the idea that they were sufficiently seaworthy as to be taken off shore
and brave open ocean storms. Now go take a pill and relax, Macs have
their place, as do canoes and paddle boats.

Cheers
Marty


Jim



That's right Marty... in fact, as the chief Mac-basher (apparently) I
said near those exact words, but Jim doesn't want to hear...


Ganz, I think what you said was:

Assuming the boat can't sink (which I seriously doubt - given the pounding
it would endure, it would likely break up), it would be dismasted for
sure. Then, (not that sailing would have ever been an option), your only
chance for survival would be below decks, while the boat rolled over and
over and over, perhaps even pitchpolling from time to time. It would be
like being in a washing machine with heavy and sharp objects. You'd find
yourself in a non-habitable environment of flying hazards including
yourself that would break your bones into mush. In desperation to escape,
you would vacate the premises, and then either be thrown off the boat by
the wave action or you would remove yourself from the boat deliberately.
Either way, you wouldn't
survive.

Of course, you had no evidence whatsoever to back up those ridiculous
assertions. Incidentally, I never thought of my Mac as a washing machine,
but maybe I should look into it.

Jim



Take it offshore and encounter some weather. Then, report back to us.


Gee Ganz, if that would turn my boat into a washing machine, I don't
think so.

Jim

Capt. JG wrote:

"JimC" wrote in message
t...


Again, despite the thousands of Mac 26's out there sailed in US and
foreign waters, we have NO reports of Mac 26M's breaking up and sinking in
ANY conditions. NONE!

Have a nice day Salty.

Jim



Please prove this. I see no evidence of this in your post.

What I said was that we have no reports of Mac 25M's breaking up and
sinking. In any conditions.

Unless I missed them, no such reports have been identified or posted on
this newsgroup, Ganz. AFAiK, neither you or any of your Mac-bashing
buddies have been able to find or post any of them. On the other hand,
maybe I'm mistaken, and you DID post them. If so, kindly give me the
date and time of your post(s).

Thanks,
Jim

JimC wrote:

Ganz, are you intentionally or maliciously distorting the points made in
my notes, or are you just stupid?

Jim


Hold up, Jim.

You seem to be expecting rational behavior and fair treatment from the
creatures inhabiting this list.

They, on the other hand, are having fun making sport of you via your boat.

Drop it and go on and enjoy sailing.

Maybe the first cartoon here will help...
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~cavelamb/proof.htm


Richard
--
(remove the X to email)

Now just why the HELL do I have to press 1 for English?
John Wayne

"JimC" wrote in message
.. .


Capt. JG wrote:

"JimC" wrote in message
...


I think your problem is that you are judging the rigging and hardware of
the Mac on the basis of what's required with a much heavier boat. The
requirements simply aren't the same for a small, 4,000 lb. boat. See also
my note above concerning forming a bridle for accommodating the sea
anchor.

Jim



No. He's judging it on the basis of what's a decent rig.

A "decent rig" for a 69-foot Swan, or a 40-ft Valiant or a 39-ft O'Day, is
not the same thing as a "decent rig" for a 26-ft boat displacing 4,000
pounds.

Jim



I agree! However, the rigs for Mac26s, which I've seen, are not adequate for
anything other than light air. I have a Sabre 30, with a displacement of
about twice that. The standing rigging is substantial... more than what
would normally be required... why... because it's designed for real coastal
cruising.


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"JimC" wrote in message
.. .

Huh? Either they're appropriate to the size of a 26 ft boat or not that
should go offshore. They're no appropriate on so many levels that I would
run out of bandwidth trying to post them. It's deficient rigging. I've
seen it.

Find your own examples. I'm not interested in doing your homework for
you.

In other words, you simply don't have a rational response and can't come
up one. Is that about the size of it Ganz?

Jim





The size of it is that you are unable to substantiate your own claims and
want me to do your work for you... sorry, not my job.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"JimC" wrote in message
. ..
Read my note Ganz. What I said was that the Mac can be quickly and easily
transported by the owner with a pickup or SUV

Which has nothing to do with actual sailing.



I prefer to actually sail to places not put my boat on truck.

Can you sail 1500 miles in one weekend Ganz? I would sure like to see
that. - Let me know when you are about to move out.

No. Neither can you. You can drive there in a day if you floor it.

Storage and maintenance fees can be substantially less... I can leave the
boat in a shallow slip that wouldn't be suitable for a conventional boat

Well, you got me there. It's not a conventional boat.

It might be a coastal cruiser a couple of months a year, but I assure you
it's not a coastal cruiser out here 95% of the time, unless you count
foundering on rocks as coastal cruising.

Don't know where "out here" is Ganz.- Maybe you could be a little more
specific. But in any event, the Mac is maneuverable and can be motored or
sailed around rocks and in shallow waters most fixed-keel boats couldn't
manage.

SF bay and outside in the Pacific. Please don't ask me to send you a google
map link.

What's your point Ganz? That the boat SHOULDN'T have such safety
measures?- How long would YOUR boat stay afloat if it's hull were
substantially compromised? With a 6-inch puncture, for example?

I stay off the rocks. I know where and when is appropriate to my craft. So,
what you're saying is that you're so paranoid of sinking, you buy a piece of
junk that just won't sink... 1 hole or 20. Sounds like packing peanuts.


Mine has three reefing points on the main, and a roller furling jib. I
seldom have problems keeping the boat under control.


Out here, you'll need all three reefs all the time.

Well, you got me there... cheap compared to used boats of higher quality.

Not necessarily "cheap," (but possible.... glad you admit it)
Could I tow your Sabre with my Mercury Marquis Ganz? How about a Ford
pickup?

Why would I want to try??? I prefer to sail.


Ganz, where do you get an emphasis on trailoring from the above paragraph?

self-serving crap deleted

In the last several paragraphs. Please feel free to repost them if it turns
you on.


Actually, I do watch the wake and watch to see that I don't interfere with
other boats. Obviously, the speed and, when under sail, the set of the
sails have to be appropriate for the conditions.

Suggestion... look where you're going, leave the engine off. LOL

more self-serving bs removed

Ah, the personal attack... and I only called you foolish for thinking you
could take your boat offshore.. I must be losing it.


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"JimC" wrote in message
. ..


Capt. JG wrote:

"JimC" wrote in message
t...


Again, despite the thousands of Mac 26's out there sailed in US and
foreign waters, we have NO reports of Mac 26M's breaking up and sinking
in ANY conditions. NONE!

Have a nice day Salty.

Jim



Please prove this. I see no evidence of this in your post.


We (those posting on alt.sailing.asa) have so far been unable to provide
ANY reports of Mac26M's breaking up and sinking under ANY conditions. If
you think this statement is incorrect in any respect, please identify the
source you think contradicts it. Or, if you have other sources that would
contradict it, post those as well (or instead).

I'm not saying that there might not be such a report out there somewhere,
but so far no one on this ng has been able to produce it.

Your move.

Jim


I guess you didn't like Jeff's post.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"JimC" wrote in message
.. .


Capt. JG wrote:

"JimC" wrote in message
...
I really doubt than any even half-way rational skipper would

consider taking a Mac offshore under such conditions (with the boat
overloaded, with several adults standing on the deck, with the skipper
and half the guests drunk, and with the ballast tank empty). It's an
anomaly that doesn't really relate to the present discussion.



Such conditions? Calm waters?

You are again evading the substance of my post, Ganz. "Calm waters" was
only one factor out of a number of more critical ones, including: drunk
skipper, negligent owner, drunk guests, ignorant skipper who wasn't
familiar with the boat, empty ballast tank (apparently not checked by
either the skipper or the owner), motoring at night under varying lighting
(fireworks) boat overloaded, boat top heavy with several drunk adults
standing on the deck, some apparently holding on to the mast, and infants
left in the cabin. Regarding the "calm waters" issue, apparently the
skipper was trying to maneuver around other boats also in the area to
watch the fireworks. In any event, he turned the boat at excessive speed
under the conditions.

Ganz, are you intentionally or maliciously distorting the points made in
my notes, or are you just stupid?

Jim


I must be stupid to believe you take yourself so seriously. You're the best
troll ever!!


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"JimC" wrote in message
.. .


Capt. JG wrote:

"JimC" wrote in message
...


Capt. JG wrote:


"Marty" wrote in message
news:YtmdnZGvK50d65fVnZ2dnUVZ_qqgnZ2d@giganews .com...


JimC wrote:


Capt. JG wrote:



"JimC" wrote in message
m...
snipping

Zzzzzz... this thread is dead Jim... LOL


The string is dead? Well, some of us have interests and
responsibilities beyond participating in such a discussion. Also, I
spent the afternoon this Saturday sailing my boat, something I don't
seem often to see with respect to you and your buddies posting in this
string. - It's strange, but you and most of your anti-Mac buddies seem
to get their jollies from bashing us Mac sailors, whereas we Mac
sailors get pleasure from sailing our Macs.

But I'll get back to you, and also to your Mac-bashing buddies. That's
a promise.

Getting a bit paranoid there Jim. Nobody was bashing Macs, just
bashing the idea that they were sufficiently seaworthy as to be taken
off shore and brave open ocean storms. Now go take a pill and relax,
Macs have their place, as do canoes and paddle boats.

Cheers
Marty


Jim



That's right Marty... in fact, as the chief Mac-basher (apparently) I
said near those exact words, but Jim doesn't want to hear...


Ganz, I think what you said was:

Assuming the boat can't sink (which I seriously doubt - given the
pounding it would endure, it would likely break up), it would be
dismasted for sure. Then, (not that sailing would have ever been an
option), your only chance for survival would be below decks, while the
boat rolled over and over and over, perhaps even pitchpolling from time
to time. It would be like being in a washing machine with heavy and sharp
objects. You'd find yourself in a non-habitable environment of flying
hazards including yourself that would break your bones into mush. In
desperation to escape, you would vacate the premises, and then either be
thrown off the boat by the wave action or you would remove yourself from
the boat deliberately. Either way, you wouldn't
survive.

Of course, you had no evidence whatsoever to back up those ridiculous
assertions. Incidentally, I never thought of my Mac as a washing machine,
but maybe I should look into it.

Jim



Take it offshore and encounter some weather. Then, report back to us.


Gee Ganz, if that would turn my boat into a washing machine, I don't think
so.

Jim


Clearly.


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com