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Old April 17th 08, 01:52 AM posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Default Suzuki DF4 vs. DF6

wrote:
On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 13:38:02 -0400, Martin Baxter
wrote:

wrote:
On Tue, 15 Apr 2008 18:36:10 +0200, "Edgar"
wrote:

"Martin Baxter" wrote in message
...
Don't leave out the fact that the electric trolling motor power is
produced directly at the prop. There is significant power loss in a
gas outboard between where it is produced and the prop that does the
work.
Hmm, I don't really know, but I don't think the losses should be all that
big, one little water pump to turn, on set of crown and pinion gears.
Intuitively I don't think you'd lose more than 15%..

I'll bet that most outboard manufactures measure output of just the head,
no shaft, no water pump.
It would not be as much as that. 3-5% would be about the right amount.

I think you're right Edgar, on a slightly larger motor, but two horse is
pretty small and the losses would be more significant, frankly I'd be
surprised though if they were more than 10%

I think it would be a bit more than that. The drive train has to turn
a 90 degree corner. And don't forget the power consumed by the
alternator, along with the already mentioned water pump. These things
add up.


Alternator? On a two horse?,

Cheers
Marty



Suzuki DF4 and DF6 are both available with a 6 amp alternator

http://www.suzukimarine.com/sr_07/df6-4/features/


Ok, so twice the two horse, now the gear loss becomes less percentage
wise. Six amps, fourteen volts, is 84 watts, just a bit bigger than
1/10 hp, even at 80% efficiency, even if the alternator is actually
putting out the full six amps, still not not significant.

Cheers
Marty



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Old April 17th 08, 09:46 AM posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Default Suzuki DF4 vs. DF6 (or maybe another choice, the Tohatsu MFS4BS).

When I started this thread I truly thought I had decided to either buy
a Suzuki 4hp or 6hp for my G3 Guide V14 aluminum utility boat;
however, with all of the good information I've received with the
variety of opinions I've trimmed it down to either a Suzuki 2.5hp for
$721, a Suzuki 4hp for $1008 or a Tohatsu 4hp for $833.

I believe the best "bang for the buck" is the Tohatsu 4hp 4-stroke and
I'll probably order that this week Here are the specs for it. Does
it sound like it'll push that 14 footer around the lake at a fast walk
(4-6 mph)?

(BTW, I gave the 30 lb. electric a brief trial and it was nice and
quiet but just didn't move that Guide V14 like it had that slick-
hulled Walker Bay 10.)

The Tohatsu has through-the-prop exhaust, compression release for easy
starting, and shallow water drive. It also comes standard with an oil
pressure indicator for low oil levels and a built-in 1.1 liter (.29
U.S. gallon) fuel tank as well as having the option to add an external
fuel tank. (It comes with the fittings.) It also has a forward-
neutral-reverse gearshift and a 123cc displacement motor with an RPM
range of 4500-5500 and a 59mm x 45mm bore and stroke. The gear ratio
is 2:15:1 and it weighs 57 lbs.

The dealer admits it's a 2007 but is brand-new in-the-box and never
been in the water. The $833 (delivered to my door) price is about
$150 cheaper than the price for a new 2008. It's even blue, same
color as our boat.

So has this rookie outboarder finally arrived at the best choice for
the boat and the projected uses? Hope so. The Tohatsu, compared to
the 5hp Briggs & Stratton (I had once given a fleeting glance to that
machine because of the low price) is 1hp and 15cc less but will
probably be easier on our ears while putting about and costs just a
very few dollars more than the Briggs. And finally, I just couldn't
see the Suzuki being worth $175-$200 more than the Tohatsu for our
needs.

So before I pick up that telephone and order in the next day or two,
any last minute observations, criticisms, etc. on what I hope to be
our final choice so we can quit agonizing over this outboard thing and
get out on the lake where we belong. Thanx again.

-Jay

+++The Tohatsu 4HP 4-Stroke

http://www.tohatsu.com/outboards/4_4st.html

+++Our G3 Guide V14 yacht

http://www.g3boats.com/AnglerVSeries/GuideV/#features





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Old April 17th 08, 02:13 PM posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Default Suzuki DF4 vs. DF6 (or maybe another choice, the Tohatsu MFS4BS).

Jay wrote:


So before I pick up that telephone and order in the next day or two,
any last minute observations, criticisms, etc. on what I hope to be
our final choice so we can quit agonizing over this outboard thing and
get out on the lake where we belong. Thanx again.

-Jay

+++The Tohatsu 4HP 4-Stroke

http://www.tohatsu.com/outboards/4_4st.html

+++Our G3 Guide V14 yacht


Jay, I'm sure the Tohatsu will move you V14 along at 5 or 6 knots, it
won't get up and plane, you won't be doing any water skiing. Compared
to the Briggs, it'll be quiet. It will be very easy on gas, I think
it's a good choice. FWIW, I have a canoe, 12ft aluminum punt, 14 and 15
ft runabouts, Evenrude 2Hp, Merc. 2.2., Scott-At****er 5.5, Evenrude 6,
Johnson 8, Johnson 60, Merc 140 I/O, so I do have some experience.

Cheers
Marty
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Old April 17th 08, 05:38 PM posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Default Suzuki DF4 vs. DF6 (or maybe another choice, the Tohatsu MFS4BS).

On Thu, 17 Apr 08, Martin Baxter wrote:
FWIW, I have a canoe


Which motor do you use to power the canoe? I've been thinkin'
"trolling motor" so I can keep most of the weight low and amidships
instead of all hanging over the side near the stern. A 30lb thrust
Minn Kota is on sale near me for $67 but since Jay's experiment, I'm
thinkin' more like 50lbs so I can use it on a skiff as well. The
smallest gasoline outboard I have at the moment is 6hp at 58lbs which
is fine for the skiff but too much weight for the canoe.

Rick
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Old April 17th 08, 10:27 PM posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Default Suzuki DF4 vs. DF6 (or maybe another choice, the Tohatsu MFS4BS).

PhantMan wrote:
I've been thinkin'
"trolling motor" so I can keep most of the weight low and amidships
instead of all hanging over the side near the stern.


Martin Baxter wrote:
The little 2 HP 'rude works just fine, pushes the canoe with two people
aboard faster than you could paddle it.


Yeah, but I wasn't concerned about push power. I was wondering what
happens when the two people get out and leave the canoe to balance and
float on its own. It doesn't tend towards capsize huh?

Rick
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Old April 17th 08, 11:58 PM posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Default Suzuki DF4 vs. DF6 (or maybe another choice, the Tohatsu MFS4BS).

PhantMan wrote:
Yeah, but I wasn't concerned about push power. I was wondering what
happens when the two people get out and leave the canoe to balance and
float on its own. It doesn't tend towards capsize huh?


saltydog wrote:
The real thrill waiting for you is the first time you try a sharp turn, and the
prop thrust rolls you over instead of turning the canoe.


lol! No doubt there'll be some trial and error involved ;-) I've
considered an outrigger, or rafting two canoes along side each other.
I'd rather keep it as simple as I can though.

Rick ---- still thinkin'
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Old April 18th 08, 12:55 AM posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Default Suzuki DF4 vs. DF6 (or maybe another choice, the Tohatsu MFS4BS).

wrote:


The real thrill waiting for you is the first time you try a sharp turn, and the
prop thrust rolls you over instead of turning the canoe.


Ah ha! I see you have some experience.

Cheers
Marty



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