I sail on a large Northern lake. There are many days when all I need
is shorts and a T shirt. There are also days when that sort of dress
would be a bit inappropriate. My boat is a 21 foot weekender. I'm not
concerned with sinking, but there is always a possibility of going
into the water. I live on the shore of the lake and intend to have my
boat in the water as soon as the ice is gone. I see no reason why I
can't sail just because it's 32 degrees and raining. Not as many
water skiers and Sea-doo's to dodge on those days.

I've never owned any sort of foul weather boating gear and would
appreciate some advice on what is practical before I make any
purchases. There is a wide choice of gear available with prices to
match.

At the lower end is this paddlers jacket in the $200 range

http://www.kokatat.com/product_detail.asp?code=tta

At the other end is this jacket that's nearly $800

http://www.pineapplesails.com/musto/...1647jacket.htm

I don't mind spending money on products that are worth their value.
Is a jacket like the $200 one adequate for cold weather sailing or
is it worth considering the $800 price range?

I would expect on a really cold day I would still need additional
layers of clothing with either jacket as well as suitable gloves,
boots and pants.

Sailing is the bottom line. What do I need to get out there and
sail in reasonable comfort while the rest are hiding indoors?

LdB

"L D'Bonnie" wrote in message
m...
I sail on a large Northern lake. There are many days when all I need
is shorts and a T shirt. There are also days when that sort of dress
would be a bit inappropriate. My boat is a 21 foot weekender. I'm not
concerned with sinking, but there is always a possibility of going
into the water. I live on the shore of the lake and intend to have my
boat in the water as soon as the ice is gone. I see no reason why I
can't sail just because it's 32 degrees and raining. Not as many
water skiers and Sea-doo's to dodge on those days.

I've never owned any sort of foul weather boating gear and would
appreciate some advice on what is practical before I make any
purchases. There is a wide choice of gear available with prices to
match.

At the lower end is this paddlers jacket in the $200 range

http://www.kokatat.com/product_detail.asp?code=tta

At the other end is this jacket that's nearly $800

http://www.pineapplesails.com/musto/...1647jacket.htm

I don't mind spending money on products that are worth their value.
Is a jacket like the $200 one adequate for cold weather sailing or
is it worth considering the $800 price range?

I would expect on a really cold day I would still need additional
layers of clothing with either jacket as well as suitable gloves,
boots and pants.

Sailing is the bottom line. What do I need to get out there and
sail in reasonable comfort while the rest are hiding indoors?

LdB


I sail in the SF bayarea... in the bay and less frequently offshore.
Certainly, the water temp or even the wind temp doesn't approach 32 degrees,
but it can easily get below 50 plus wind-chill. Hypothermia is always an
issue even on summer days in the more protected areas where shorts and tees
are possible.

As you said, layers is going to be the answer, mostly. It's not unusual to
have 4 or 5 layers at our disposal, along with a variety of
hat/glove/footwear combinations.

I've used a fairly low-end foul weather jacket/pants set up for most of the
years (~25) sailing here. It was purchased at WM... something similar to
this, but not breathable (it's old): http://preview.tinyurl.com/3y6tbd. My
recollection is that it was about $200 then. If I had it to do over, I would
get breathable, but you can still do this at a very reasonable cost.

Now certainly, the musto is a great jacket. I'm not sure it's worth the
extra $600.

I think you'd probably do fine with either hi-tech layering or wool
layering, both of which will add value should you go in the water. Of
course, at the temps you describe, nothing short of a drysuit will keep you
for very long... also true out here, btw.

I'd say save the money on the high end stuff and invest in a good
layering/hat/glove/footwear combination.

You could also give Pineapple a call and describe the situation. They're
good people.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

On Wed, 02 Apr 2008 15:56:13 -0500, L D'Bonnie wrote:

I sail on a large Northern lake. There are many days when all I need
is shorts and a T shirt. There are also days when that sort of dress
would be a bit inappropriate. My boat is a 21 foot weekender. I'm not
concerned with sinking, but there is always a possibility of going
into the water. I live on the shore of the lake and intend to have my
boat in the water as soon as the ice is gone. I see no reason why I
can't sail just because it's 32 degrees and raining. Not as many
water skiers and Sea-doo's to dodge on those days.

I've never owned any sort of foul weather boating gear and would
appreciate some advice on what is practical before I make any
purchases. There is a wide choice of gear available with prices to
match.

At the lower end is this paddlers jacket in the $200 range

http://www.kokatat.com/product_detail.asp?code=tta

At the other end is this jacket that's nearly $800

http://www.pineapplesails.com/musto/...1647jacket.htm

I don't mind spending money on products that are worth their value.
Is a jacket like the $200 one adequate for cold weather sailing or
is it worth considering the $800 price range?

I would expect on a really cold day I would still need additional
layers of clothing with either jacket as well as suitable gloves,
boots and pants.

Sailing is the bottom line. What do I need to get out there and
sail in reasonable comfort while the rest are hiding indoors?

You might look into the various hand warmers on the market. If you do
get wet and cold, one of those in your pocket could work wonders on
cold fingers, even if protected by gloves or mittens.

Chuck

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Ski season is just coming to an end with lots of ski clothing going on
SALE. Lots of polar fleece, lots of Goretex, etc. etc. 40-50% off
should entice you for essentially the same type and quality of
'boating' togs at 3X the price. Think 'layers'. I use Goretex side-
zip ski pants for my 'foulies'; a GoreTex shell 'anorak' for my
foulies jacket, ditto for gloves ... again about 1/3 the (end of
season) price than 'boaters' stuff.

"L D'Bonnie" wrote in message
m...
I sail on a large Northern lake. There are many days when all I need
is shorts and a T shirt. There are also days when that sort of dress
would be a bit inappropriate. My boat is a 21 foot weekender. I'm not
concerned with sinking, but there is always a possibility of going
into the water. I live on the shore of the lake and intend to have my
boat in the water as soon as the ice is gone. I see no reason why I
can't sail just because it's 32 degrees and raining. Not as many
water skiers and Sea-doo's to dodge on those days.

I've never owned any sort of foul weather boating gear and would
appreciate some advice on what is practical before I make any
purchases. There is a wide choice of gear available with prices to
match.

At the lower end is this paddlers jacket in the $200 range

http://www.kokatat.com/product_detail.asp?code=tta

At the other end is this jacket that's nearly $800

http://www.pineapplesails.com/musto/...1647jacket.htm

I don't mind spending money on products that are worth their value.
Is a jacket like the $200 one adequate for cold weather sailing or
is it worth considering the $800 price range?

I would expect on a really cold day I would still need additional
layers of clothing with either jacket as well as suitable gloves,
boots and pants.

Sailing is the bottom line. What do I need to get out there and
sail in reasonable comfort while the rest are hiding indoors?

LdB


The Mustang people have quite a selection. The 'floater' jackets used to be
very popular up here in spring/fall.
http://www.mustangsurvival.com/produ...uct.php?id=148

Subject

Back when I sailed on the Great Lakes in cold weather, wore a
snowmobile suit.

Picked it up at a K-Mart on a "blue light special".

Light weight, warm and LOW cost.

YMMV

Lew

L D'Bonnie wrote:
I don't mind spending money on products that are worth their value.
Is a jacket like the $200 one adequate for cold weather sailing or
is it worth considering the $800 price range?


It also depends on how much $800 is to you; which partially depends on
your income & partly on your personality.
I'm a cheapskate, I wouldn't buy an $800 jacket to sail in unless I
knew it had a couple of self-tailing winches and a new set of kevlar
sails in the pockets.


I would expect on a really cold day I would still need additional
layers of clothing with either jacket as well as suitable gloves,
boots and pants.


The best place to start with cold weather clothing is with a good set
of capilene longies. These aren't very expensive. I've got a set of
water shedding hunting trouser that were also inexpensive and can be
worn inside a pair of cargo pants. Put on foul-weather bibs over that
and you've got 4 layers that will keep your lower half (generally the
wetter & less active half) warm & mostly dry down towards freezing. Do
the same for your upper half and you can sail quite comfortably...
without restricting movement too much either.... for not much more
than that $200 jacket cost all by itself.

One thing that can be added for insurance is a set of wooly (or
microfleece) under-bibs that keep your core body temp up.

These are a bit on the pricey side, you could shop around
http://www.whitecapsfoulweathergear....t_id=c2agi1512



Sailing is the bottom line. What do I need to get out there and
sail in reasonable comfort while the rest are hiding indoors?


Anybody who actually wants to, will not be hiding indoors!

BTW another item that really *really* helps on cold days.... and as a
skipper, I was always acutely aware of how effective and as a
cheapskate, how COST-effective.... a nice steaming round of tea or
cocoa.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

wrote in message
...
L D'Bonnie wrote:
I don't mind spending money on products that are worth their value.
Is a jacket like the $200 one adequate for cold weather sailing or
is it worth considering the $800 price range?


It also depends on how much $800 is to you; which partially depends on
your income & partly on your personality.
I'm a cheapskate, I wouldn't buy an $800 jacket to sail in unless I
knew it had a couple of self-tailing winches and a new set of kevlar
sails in the pockets.


I would expect on a really cold day I would still need additional
layers of clothing with either jacket as well as suitable gloves,
boots and pants.


The best place to start with cold weather clothing is with a good set
of capilene longies. These aren't very expensive. I've got a set of
water shedding hunting trouser that were also inexpensive and can be
worn inside a pair of cargo pants. Put on foul-weather bibs over that
and you've got 4 layers that will keep your lower half (generally the
wetter & less active half) warm & mostly dry down towards freezing. Do
the same for your upper half and you can sail quite comfortably...
without restricting movement too much either.... for not much more
than that $200 jacket cost all by itself.

One thing that can be added for insurance is a set of wooly (or
microfleece) under-bibs that keep your core body temp up.

These are a bit on the pricey side, you could shop around
http://www.whitecapsfoulweathergear....t_id=c2agi1512



Sailing is the bottom line. What do I need to get out there and
sail in reasonable comfort while the rest are hiding indoors?


Anybody who actually wants to, will not be hiding indoors!

BTW another item that really *really* helps on cold days.... and as a
skipper, I was always acutely aware of how effective and as a
cheapskate, how COST-effective.... a nice steaming round of tea or
cocoa.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King




Tea is better than coffee... don't get so jittery and more people will use
it... unless you need to stay awake.


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

L D'Bonnie wrote in news:47f3f083$0$517$6c5eefc5
@news.maximumusenet.com:

My boat is a 21 foot weekender. I'm not
concerned with sinking,

A recipe for disaster. Without a survival suit for every person aboard,
you won't last 15 minutes, maybe not 10.

http://www.mustangsurvival.com/integrity/
http://www.mustangsurvival.com/produ...p?id=421&mc=13

http://www.mustangsurvival.com/resou...icles/hypother
mia/index.php

"THE 4 CRITICAL PHASES OF COLD-WATER IMMERSION

I. First 5 minutes - Immediate Shock
The subject experiences the gasp reflex – the sudden gasp of air as
result of the shock, the inability to hold breath, hypertension and
increased cardiac output. Most casualties in this phase succumb to
drowning or heart attack before hypothermia can even begin to set to in.

II. Next 15 minutes – Inhalation of Water
The subject fails to keep afloat or swim and has little ability to grasp
or climb into things such as overturned vessels or life rafts.
Typically, these individuals drown due to excessive inhalation of water.

III. 30 minutes - Onset of hypothermia
Stages of Hypothermia:
37° C is considered normal body core temperature. When core temperature
drops to 36.1° C, muscle tone becomes affected. Most people have
experienced this feeling of tension in their back and neck when they’ve
become chilled. At a core temperature of 35° C, one is considered mildly
hypothermic. Most immersion experiments with human test subjects are
terminated at this point for ethical reasons. At a core temperature of
33.9° C, subjects experience amnesia, but of course don’t remember it!
Another 1.1° C drop down to 32.8° C; apathy that is a lack of sensation
or feeling can be experienced.

At 32.2° C one is considered profoundly hypothermic and starts to lose
the ability to shiver. At 31.1° C, shivering ceases. Shivering is a
human’s only method of increasing their internal heat generation, thus
once it stops, and core temperature starts falling rapidly. At 30° C,
heart arrhythmias occur. Death follows at 25° C; however the majority of
people would have drowned before ever getting to this point.

IV. 30 minutes – Risk of Re-warming Shock after Rescue
Upon removal from the water, there is a continued drop in a subject’s
core temperature and a collapse of arterial pressure due to hydrostatic
squeeze. Extreme care and proper re-warming procedures must be followed
to effectively attend to the subject.

HOW CAN HYPOTHERMIA BE PREVENTED ?
In-water Tactics
When you’re in cold water, don’t swim unless you can reach a nearby
boat, fellow survivor or floating object. Even good swimmers drown while
swimming in cold water. Swimming lowers your body temperature.

If a nearby floating object is large, pull yourself up onto it. The more
of your body that is out of the water, the warmer you’ll be. Don’t use
drownproofing methods that call for putting your face into the water.
Keep your head out of the water to lessen heat loss and increase
survival time.

Use of the HELP position will lessen heat loss. If there are others in
the water, HUDDLE together for warmth. Keep a positive outlook; it will
improve your chances of survival.

Always wear your PFD. Even if you become helpless from hypothermia, your
PFD will keep you afloat."

The difference is they find a cold, dead body floating in his
PFD.....or, they find a barely alive cold body floating in his
rudimentary survival suit that saved his ass....Your choice.

It CAN happen to YOU....

On Apr 2, 10:56 am, L D'Bonnie wrote:
http://www.pineapplesails.com/musto/...1647jacket.htm

That's a lot of money. I really like the Gill line and I recently
retired my old (ca 1990) west marine 3rd reef pvc stuff (mostly
packing tape) in favor of Gill. I'm hard pressed to see that the
Musto coat is twice as much jacket as the penultimate Gill coat
(Atlantic) but it is twice the price. In the ocean in temps down into
the 50's the Gill Key West line is adequate as a top layer. I've got a
buddy who swears by the Stearns work suit for cold weather work on the
ocean. However, my guess is that you are looking at day sailing for a
couple of hours in fair weather and as long as you don't fall in I
can't really see spending a lot of money on a jacket thats designed to
keep you dry when you're getting hammered by ocean waves. I think
something along the lines of the Key West stuff would be fine as a
shell if you want to be yachty but a good outer-layer from someplace
like www.campmor.com or www.basgear.com (shop around) would likely be
just as good and cheaper and they carry all the underlayering you'll
be wanting. www.defender.com is a decent place to start if you are
interested in the Gill or Sterns. Get lots of layers. Oh, yeah, it's
hard to find gloves that keep you warm and allow you to handle lines.
I used some shooter's gloves that have short fingers but a mitten like
top that you can pull over you fingertips when you aren't using them
on my last trip to New Zealand. They were ok for modestly cool
weather but for real winter weather you might try neoprene sailing
gloves.

-- Tom.