L D'Bonnie wrote:
I sail on a large Northern lake. There are many days when all I need
is shorts and a T shirt. There are also days when that sort of dress
would be a bit inappropriate. My boat is a 21 foot weekender.

When faced with sailing from New England at the start of winter, I had
to buy some decent clothes. The 'real' suits I saw cost roughly $1,800.
I think that fair price but I needed a one trip outfit. I don't ever
want to try that stunt again.

So instead I visited stores which cater to commercial fishermen - those
guys in the north Atlantic on trawlers year round.

I saved a lot of money and got decent if not really spiffy looking
clothes. The salesman also understood what I needed more than I did.
Worth a trip if you have commercial fishermen nearby.

-paul

"L D'Bonnie" wrote in message
m...
I sail on a large Northern lake. There are many days when all I need
is shorts and a T shirt. There are also days when that sort of dress
would be a bit inappropriate. My boat is a 21 foot weekender. I'm not
concerned with sinking, but there is always a possibility of going
into the water. I live on the shore of the lake and intend to have my
boat in the water as soon as the ice is gone. I see no reason why I
can't sail just because it's 32 degrees and raining. Not as many
water skiers and Sea-doo's to dodge on those days.

I've never owned any sort of foul weather boating gear and would
appreciate some advice on what is practical before I make any
purchases. There is a wide choice of gear available with prices to
match.

At the lower end is this paddlers jacket in the $200 range

http://www.kokatat.com/product_detail.asp?code=tta

At the other end is this jacket that's nearly $800

http://www.pineapplesails.com/musto/...1647jacket.htm

I don't mind spending money on products that are worth their value.
Is a jacket like the $200 one adequate for cold weather sailing or
is it worth considering the $800 price range?

I would expect on a really cold day I would still need additional
layers of clothing with either jacket as well as suitable gloves,
boots and pants.

Sailing is the bottom line. What do I need to get out there and
sail in reasonable comfort while the rest are hiding indoors?

LdB


I'm in a position now where I don't care what it is, I buy the best for the
job. I refuse to buy compromise stuff and "bear with it" any longer.

For sailing stuff, I now buy Musto. I'll be buying one of those jackets in
a couple of years, too (don't need it at present)

Funnily enough, even though I live in Western Australia, I've bought stuff
from Pineapple too. They were great first time around but recently when I
tried to buy something it wasn't so good.

For a middle layer, perhaps you could consider what the other posters said
about end-of-season ski clothes - since there is no snow in Western
Australia as a rule, I don't know much about that but the others seemed to
be knowledgeable on the topic.

Hoges in WA

"L D'Bonnie" wrote

I've never owned any sort of foul weather boating gear and would
appreciate some advice on what is practical before I make any
purchases. There is a wide choice of gear available with prices to
match.

Cold weather boating:
#1 Stay in the boat, and keep the water out. Remind yourself that swimming
= funeral. (others have covered this)
#2 Regardless of #1, wear your PFD.
#3 Good quality, all-purpose raingear is really nice. In my family, we
get "the best" Gore-Tex gear from LL Bean. Long, not short jackets, and
lightweight Gore-Tex pants. Baseball-style caps under the hood help shed
spray/driving rain and improve visibility. Gore-Tex (or rubber fisherman
style)gloves. Boots. Unfortunately, kid-sized gear is hard to come by in
Gore-Tex.
#4 "Sailing" foul weather gear tends to be bulky, uncomfortable,
single-purpose, and expensive.
#5 For colder (winter in Maine) weather, layer poly long underwear, and
fleece sweaters. Cover-the-ear hats. Extra hats and gloves for when you
drop them. If you overheat, switching to a lighter (or no) hat will cool
you off in a hurry.
#6 Discomfort will lead you focus on yourself, huddle out of the elements,
and generally lose your focus. Stay comfortable.
#7 Bright colors for everything. Visibility trumps fashion.
#8 Did I mention PFD's?

Sal's Dad

"Hoges in WA" wrote in message
...

"L D'Bonnie" wrote in message
m...
I sail on a large Northern lake. There are many days when all I need
is shorts and a T shirt. There are also days when that sort of dress
would be a bit inappropriate. My boat is a 21 foot weekender. I'm not
concerned with sinking, but there is always a possibility of going
into the water. I live on the shore of the lake and intend to have my
boat in the water as soon as the ice is gone. I see no reason why I
can't sail just because it's 32 degrees and raining. Not as many
water skiers and Sea-doo's to dodge on those days.

I've never owned any sort of foul weather boating gear and would
appreciate some advice on what is practical before I make any
purchases. There is a wide choice of gear available with prices to
match.

At the lower end is this paddlers jacket in the $200 range

http://www.kokatat.com/product_detail.asp?code=tta

At the other end is this jacket that's nearly $800

http://www.pineapplesails.com/musto/...1647jacket.htm

I don't mind spending money on products that are worth their value.
Is a jacket like the $200 one adequate for cold weather sailing or
is it worth considering the $800 price range?

I would expect on a really cold day I would still need additional
layers of clothing with either jacket as well as suitable gloves,
boots and pants.

Sailing is the bottom line. What do I need to get out there and
sail in reasonable comfort while the rest are hiding indoors?

LdB


I'm in a position now where I don't care what it is, I buy the best for
the job. I refuse to buy compromise stuff and "bear with it" any longer.

For sailing stuff, I now buy Musto. I'll be buying one of those jackets
in a couple of years, too (don't need it at present)

Funnily enough, even though I live in Western Australia, I've bought stuff
from Pineapple too. They were great first time around but recently when I
tried to buy something it wasn't so good.

For a middle layer, perhaps you could consider what the other posters said
about end-of-season ski clothes - since there is no snow in Western
Australia as a rule, I don't know much about that but the others seemed to
be knowledgeable on the topic.

Hoges in WA

Today raingear like Gill, Musto or many other are made with waterproof and
breathable material
In your neck of the wood you have the best merino wool.
A tightly knitted fisherman merino wool sweater over a good base layer and a
waterproof and breathable material jacket may be all you need.

On Apr 3, 5:53 am, "Sal's Dad" Sals...@nospam--betts-hyphen-
orourke.net wrote:
#7 Bright colors for everything. Visibility trumps fashion.

Yeah, why do they sell blue with spume highlights jackets? I know it
would take a miracle to get rescued from cold water buy why stack the
odds even more by wearing sea camo? I'm a big fan of orange or yellow
and reflective tape.

-- Tom.

Try www.grundens.com/

Commercial fishing stuff.

May or may not be for you.

wrote:
On Apr 3, 5:53 am, "Sal's Dad" Sals...@nospam--betts-hyphen-
orourke.net wrote:
#7 Bright colors for everything. Visibility trumps fashion.

Yeah, why do they sell blue with spume highlights jackets? I know it
would take a miracle to get rescued from cold water buy why stack the
odds even more by wearing sea camo? I'm a big fan of orange or yellow
and reflective tape.

-- Tom.

Me too. I have an International Orange suit with yards and yards of 2"
reflective tape on it. Fellow crew members laugh, but I will have the last
laugh!

Dennis.

Sal's Dad wrote:
"L D'Bonnie" wrote

I've never owned any sort of foul weather boating gear and would
appreciate some advice on what is practical before I make any
purchases. There is a wide choice of gear available with prices to
match.

Cold weather boating:
#1 Stay in the boat, and keep the water out. Remind yourself that swimming
= funeral. (others have covered this)
#2 Regardless of #1, wear your PFD.
#3 Good quality, all-purpose raingear is really nice. In my family, we
get "the best" Gore-Tex gear from LL Bean. Long, not short jackets, and
lightweight Gore-Tex pants. Baseball-style caps under the hood help shed
spray/driving rain and improve visibility. Gore-Tex (or rubber fisherman
style)gloves. Boots. Unfortunately, kid-sized gear is hard to come by in
Gore-Tex.
#4 "Sailing" foul weather gear tends to be bulky, uncomfortable,
single-purpose, and expensive.
#5 For colder (winter in Maine) weather, layer poly long underwear, and
fleece sweaters. Cover-the-ear hats. Extra hats and gloves for when you
drop them. If you overheat, switching to a lighter (or no) hat will cool
you off in a hurry.
#6 Discomfort will lead you focus on yourself, huddle out of the elements,
and generally lose your focus. Stay comfortable.
#7 Bright colors for everything. Visibility trumps fashion.
#8 Did I mention PFD's?

Sal's Dad


I bought a lightweight Gortex jacket (unlined), pants, socks and
neoprene gloves. I'm not sure how the socks will work, you pays
your money and you takes your chances. I

The layered approach seems most practical. The gortex clothing is
light and comfortable. It can be worn throughout the year, with warm
layers when required.

I want to thank all for their advice. Snows starting to melt. Couple
weeks the boat will be in the wet. Be assured I do my best to keep
out of the water.

LdB

Larry wrote:
L D'Bonnie wrote in news:47f3f083$0$517$6c5eefc5
@news.maximumusenet.com:

My boat is a 21 foot weekender. I'm not
concerned with sinking,

A recipe for disaster. Without a survival suit for every person aboard,
you won't last 15 minutes, maybe not 10.

http://www.mustangsurvival.com/integrity/
http://www.mustangsurvival.com/produ...p?id=421&mc=13

http://www.mustangsurvival.com/resou...icles/hypother
mia/index.php

"THE 4 CRITICAL PHASES OF COLD-WATER IMMERSION

I. First 5 minutes - Immediate Shock
The subject experiences the gasp reflex – the sudden gasp of air as
result of the shock, the inability to hold breath, hypertension and
increased cardiac output. Most casualties in this phase succumb to
drowning or heart attack before hypothermia can even begin to set to in.

II. Next 15 minutes – Inhalation of Water
The subject fails to keep afloat or swim and has little ability to grasp
or climb into things such as overturned vessels or life rafts.
Typically, these individuals drown due to excessive inhalation of water.

III. 30 minutes - Onset of hypothermia
Stages of Hypothermia:
37° C is considered normal body core temperature. When core temperature
drops to 36.1° C, muscle tone becomes affected. Most people have
experienced this feeling of tension in their back and neck when they’ve
become chilled. At a core temperature of 35° C, one is considered mildly
hypothermic. Most immersion experiments with human test subjects are
terminated at this point for ethical reasons. At a core temperature of
33.9° C, subjects experience amnesia, but of course don’t remember it!
Another 1.1° C drop down to 32.8° C; apathy that is a lack of sensation
or feeling can be experienced.

At 32.2° C one is considered profoundly hypothermic and starts to lose
the ability to shiver. At 31.1° C, shivering ceases. Shivering is a
human’s only method of increasing their internal heat generation, thus
once it stops, and core temperature starts falling rapidly. At 30° C,
heart arrhythmias occur. Death follows at 25° C; however the majority of
people would have drowned before ever getting to this point.

IV. 30 minutes – Risk of Re-warming Shock after Rescue
Upon removal from the water, there is a continued drop in a subject’s
core temperature and a collapse of arterial pressure due to hydrostatic
squeeze. Extreme care and proper re-warming procedures must be followed
to effectively attend to the subject.

HOW CAN HYPOTHERMIA BE PREVENTED ?
In-water Tactics
When you’re in cold water, don’t swim unless you can reach a nearby
boat, fellow survivor or floating object. Even good swimmers drown while
swimming in cold water. Swimming lowers your body temperature.

If a nearby floating object is large, pull yourself up onto it. The more
of your body that is out of the water, the warmer you’ll be. Don’t use
drownproofing methods that call for putting your face into the water.
Keep your head out of the water to lessen heat loss and increase
survival time.

Use of the HELP position will lessen heat loss. If there are others in
the water, HUDDLE together for warmth. Keep a positive outlook; it will
improve your chances of survival.

Always wear your PFD. Even if you become helpless from hypothermia, your
PFD will keep you afloat."

The difference is they find a cold, dead body floating in his
PFD.....or, they find a barely alive cold body floating in his
rudimentary survival suit that saved his ass....Your choice.

It CAN happen to YOU....


Yes it can happen and yes it has happened. Dumped a canoe, there was
still ice on the lake. Instant soprano.

Very well stated and very good advice. Thanks for the reply.

We live a risk and reward lifestyle. Just leaving the house
increases our chances of never seeing the house again.

Safety and responsible behavior go a long way in making sure
we get to see that house again.

Just the fact that you post here suggests that on some occasion, you
have stretched the risk side of the equation.

Good luck keep yous sails out of the water.

LdB

Yes it can happen and yes it has happened. Dumped a canoe, there was
still ice on the lake. Instant soprano.



Talk about instant soprano! This is what can happen! Warning, don't
watch if you don't like magicians! Note the red overboard marker!
http://users.skynet.be/pdauwe/ursula_martinez.wmv
G