wrote in
:

I do not like sailing when the weather is cold I rather be inside.
However if I have to, excluding extreme weather, for cold weather
sailing I


That doesn't really matter. You can die of hypothermia right off the
Southeast coast, right here in Charleston...for a good part of the year.

Look at the core temps and effects of them. If you get down to under 90F,
you're in serious trouble....The water sucks it right out of you.

"Larry" wrote in message
...
wrote in
:

I do not like sailing when the weather is cold I rather be inside.
However if I have to, excluding extreme weather, for cold weather
sailing I


That doesn't really matter. You can die of hypothermia right off the
Southeast coast, right here in Charleston...for a good part of the year.

Look at the core temps and effects of them. If you get down to under 90F,
you're in serious trouble....The water sucks it right out of you.

I believe you Larry. When I was in the Congo one night the temperature went
down to 70F. The next morning we found people dead from hypothermia on the
side of the road. The change from 100F + down to 70F was too much of a drop
all at once.

In article ,
Larry wrote:

A recipe for disaster. Without a survival suit for every person aboard,
you won't last 15 minutes, maybe not 10.

See http://www.tc.gc.ca/MarineSafety/TP/TP13822/menu.htm for details.

HTH

Marc

--
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http://www.heusser.com

In article ,
Marc Heusser d
wrote:

http://www.tc.gc.ca/MarineSafety/TP/TP13822/menu.htm

From the conclusions:

....
Even a lifejacket, if not worn properly or without a spray hood, does
not guarantee the victim protection from drowning.
....
Even with rescue resources on scene when the people went into the water,
the shock of the cold water and period of time these people were in the
water proved significant in this casualty.
....
*From all the combined research on cold water accidents and scientific
research, it has become clear that sudden immersion in cold water, i.e.
below 15°C is very dangerous, it should be avoided if at all possible.
Furthermore, a conscious decision to swim (and rescue oneself) or stay
floating still in the water should not be taken lightly without
assessing the pros and cons. It has now been shown that a person¹s
swimming ability in warm water bears no relationship to that in cold
water.
....
Wherever possible, entry into water below 15°C should be avoided. Direct
entry into a life raft should be the objective.
....

So the old saying that you should never leave a boat unless it leaves
you is still the essence - and having a spare "boat".

HTH

Marc

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http://www.heusser.com

"Marc Heusser" d wrote in
message ...
In article ,
Marc Heusser d
wrote:

http://www.tc.gc.ca/MarineSafety/TP/TP13822/menu.htm

From the conclusions:

...
Even a lifejacket, if not worn properly or without a spray hood, does
not guarantee the victim protection from drowning.
...
Even with rescue resources on scene when the people went into the water,
the shock of the cold water and period of time these people were in the
water proved significant in this casualty.
...
From all the combined research on cold water accidents and scientific
research, it has become clear that sudden immersion in cold water, i.e.
below 15°C is very dangerous, it should be avoided if at all possible.
Furthermore, a conscious decision to swim (and rescue oneself) or stay
floating still in the water should not be taken lightly without
assessing the pros and cons. It has now been shown that a person¹s
swimming ability in warm water bears no relationship to that in cold
water.
...
Wherever possible, entry into water below 15°C should be avoided. Direct
entry into a life raft should be the objective.
...

So the old saying that you should never leave a boat unless it leaves
you is still the essence - and having a spare "boat".

HTH

Marc

--
remove bye and from mercial to get valid e-mail
http://www.heusser.com

In principle I agreed with you.
Your statement "Wherever possible, entry into water below 15°C should be
avoided. Direct
entry into a life raft should be the objective."

Direct entry into the life raft requires you to jump into the water first.
By the time you are in the life raft (depending on your ability and physical
condition) it could take anywhere from 2 minutes to 15 minutes and more. In
the Bay of Fundy the water temperature is always 40F (about 4C) all year.
By the time you are in the life raft you may well be subject to acute
hypothermia.
Last month during our yearly training we concluded that wearing your
survival suit before jumping into the water to get into the life raft could
safe your life.

....

wrote in message
...

"Marc Heusser" d wrote
in message ...
In article ,
Marc Heusser d
wrote:

http://www.tc.gc.ca/MarineSafety/TP/TP13822/menu.htm

From the conclusions:

...
Even a lifejacket, if not worn properly or without a spray hood, does
not guarantee the victim protection from drowning.
...
Even with rescue resources on scene when the people went into the water,
the shock of the cold water and period of time these people were in the
water proved significant in this casualty.
...
From all the combined research on cold water accidents and scientific
research, it has become clear that sudden immersion in cold water, i.e.
below 15°C is very dangerous, it should be avoided if at all possible.
Furthermore, a conscious decision to swim (and rescue oneself) or stay
floating still in the water should not be taken lightly without
assessing the pros and cons. It has now been shown that a person¹s
swimming ability in warm water bears no relationship to that in cold
water.
...
Wherever possible, entry into water below 15°C should be avoided. Direct
entry into a life raft should be the objective.
...

So the old saying that you should never leave a boat unless it leaves
you is still the essence - and having a spare "boat".

HTH

Marc

--
remove bye and from mercial to get valid e-mail
http://www.heusser.com

In principle I agreed with you.
Your statement "Wherever possible, entry into water below 15°C should be
avoided. Direct
entry into a life raft should be the objective."

Direct entry into the life raft requires you to jump into the water first.
By the time you are in the life raft (depending on your ability and
physical condition) it could take anywhere from 2 minutes to 15 minutes
and more. In the Bay of Fundy the water temperature is always 40F (about
4C) all year.
By the time you are in the life raft you may well be subject to acute
hypothermia.
Last month during our yearly training we concluded that wearing your
survival suit before jumping into the water to get into the life raft
could safe your life.


I would like to add another comment concerning life raft.
The probability of the life raft to open as it touches the water is very
good.
However, how many sailboat owners have their life raft inspected every year
and carry out the regular maintenance?
Having a survival suit is a good thing. But you have to be able to get into
the suit quickly. This requires practice.
We have learned that the best way to put your survival suit on is to do it
while sitting on the floor. Better to do it ahead of time.

In article ,
wrote:

In principle I agreed with you.
Your statement "Wherever possible, entry into water below 15°C should be
avoided. Direct
entry into a life raft should be the objective."

Actually it was the statement from the mentioned report, not mine.

Direct entry into the life raft requires you to jump into the water first.
By the time you are in the life raft (depending on your ability and physical
condition) it could take anywhere from 2 minutes to 15 minutes and more. In
the Bay of Fundy the water temperature is always 40F (about 4C) all year.
By the time you are in the life raft you may well be subject to acute
hypothermia.

Worse, much worse, if you read the report:
You could die of a heart attack immediately entering the water, and you
could loose all your force within minutes to grab a rope etc.

As the report is based on analysis of real events I tend to take it
seriously (also my medical training suggests that it is sound advice).

The report strongly recommends agains entering the water at all, if
anyhow possible. Of course a survival (dry) suit helps.

I do hope never to be in that (real) situation ;-)

And training entering 4C water without survival suits is most likely
plain dangerous.

Marc

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http://www.heusser.com

On Thu, 03 Apr 2008 01:12:16 +0000, Larry wrote:

L D'Bonnie wrote in news:47f3f083$0$517$6c5eefc5
:

My boat is a 21 foot weekender. I'm not
concerned with sinking,

A recipe for disaster. Without a survival suit for every person aboard,
you won't last 15 minutes, maybe not 10.

http://www.mustangsurvival.com/integrity/
http://www.mustangsurvival.com/produ...p?id=421&mc=13

http://www.mustangsurvival.com/resou...icles/hypother
mia/index.php

"THE 4 CRITICAL PHASES OF COLD-WATER IMMERSION

I. First 5 minutes - Immediate Shock
The subject experiences the gasp reflex – the sudden gasp of air as
result of the shock, the inability to hold breath, hypertension and
increased cardiac output. Most casualties in this phase succumb to
drowning or heart attack before hypothermia can even begin to set to in.

II. Next 15 minutes – Inhalation of Water
The subject fails to keep afloat or swim and has little ability to grasp
or climb into things such as overturned vessels or life rafts.
Typically, these individuals drown due to excessive inhalation of water.

III. 30 minutes - Onset of hypothermia
Stages of Hypothermia:
37° C is considered normal body core temperature. When core temperature
drops to 36.1° C, muscle tone becomes affected. Most people have
experienced this feeling of tension in their back and neck when they’ve
become chilled. At a core temperature of 35° C, one is considered mildly
hypothermic. Most immersion experiments with human test subjects are
terminated at this point for ethical reasons. At a core temperature of
33.9° C, subjects experience amnesia, but of course don’t remember it!
Another 1.1° C drop down to 32.8° C; apathy that is a lack of sensation
or feeling can be experienced.

At 32.2° C one is considered profoundly hypothermic and starts to lose
the ability to shiver. At 31.1° C, shivering ceases. Shivering is a
human’s only method of increasing their internal heat generation, thus
once it stops, and core temperature starts falling rapidly. At 30° C,
heart arrhythmias occur. Death follows at 25° C; however the majority of
people would have drowned before ever getting to this point.

IV. 30 minutes – Risk of Re-warming Shock after Rescue
Upon removal from the water, there is a continued drop in a subject’s
core temperature and a collapse of arterial pressure due to hydrostatic
squeeze. Extreme care and proper re-warming procedures must be followed
to effectively attend to the subject.

HOW CAN HYPOTHERMIA BE PREVENTED ?
In-water Tactics
When you’re in cold water, don’t swim unless you can reach a nearby
boat, fellow survivor or floating object. Even good swimmers drown while
swimming in cold water. Swimming lowers your body temperature.

If a nearby floating object is large, pull yourself up onto it. The more
of your body that is out of the water, the warmer you’ll be. Don’t use
drownproofing methods that call for putting your face into the water.
Keep your head out of the water to lessen heat loss and increase
survival time.

Use of the HELP position will lessen heat loss. If there are others in
the water, HUDDLE together for warmth. Keep a positive outlook; it will
improve your chances of survival.

Always wear your PFD. Even if you become helpless from hypothermia, your
PFD will keep you afloat."

The difference is they find a cold, dead body floating in his
PFD.....or, they find a barely alive cold body floating in his
rudimentary survival suit that saved his ass....Your choice.

It CAN happen to YOU....


In essence if you go over the side and are not retrieved fairly
quickly you probably will die.

Even in tropical waters the water is usually cooler then body
temperature so it just takes a little longer.




Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct email address for reply)

Larry wrote:
L D'Bonnie wrote in news:47f3f083$0$517$6c5eefc5
@news.maximumusenet.com:

My boat is a 21 foot weekender. I'm not
concerned with sinking,

A recipe for disaster. Without a survival suit for every person aboard,
you won't last 15 minutes, maybe not 10.

http://www.mustangsurvival.com/integrity/
http://www.mustangsurvival.com/produ...p?id=421&mc=13

http://www.mustangsurvival.com/resou...icles/hypother
mia/index.php

"THE 4 CRITICAL PHASES OF COLD-WATER IMMERSION

I. First 5 minutes - Immediate Shock
The subject experiences the gasp reflex – the sudden gasp of air as
result of the shock, the inability to hold breath, hypertension and
increased cardiac output. Most casualties in this phase succumb to
drowning or heart attack before hypothermia can even begin to set to in.

II. Next 15 minutes – Inhalation of Water
The subject fails to keep afloat or swim and has little ability to grasp
or climb into things such as overturned vessels or life rafts.
Typically, these individuals drown due to excessive inhalation of water.

III. 30 minutes - Onset of hypothermia
Stages of Hypothermia:
37° C is considered normal body core temperature. When core temperature
drops to 36.1° C, muscle tone becomes affected. Most people have
experienced this feeling of tension in their back and neck when they’ve
become chilled. At a core temperature of 35° C, one is considered mildly
hypothermic. Most immersion experiments with human test subjects are
terminated at this point for ethical reasons. At a core temperature of
33.9° C, subjects experience amnesia, but of course don’t remember it!
Another 1.1° C drop down to 32.8° C; apathy that is a lack of sensation
or feeling can be experienced.

At 32.2° C one is considered profoundly hypothermic and starts to lose
the ability to shiver. At 31.1° C, shivering ceases. Shivering is a
human’s only method of increasing their internal heat generation, thus
once it stops, and core temperature starts falling rapidly. At 30° C,
heart arrhythmias occur. Death follows at 25° C; however the majority of
people would have drowned before ever getting to this point.

IV. 30 minutes – Risk of Re-warming Shock after Rescue
Upon removal from the water, there is a continued drop in a subject’s
core temperature and a collapse of arterial pressure due to hydrostatic
squeeze. Extreme care and proper re-warming procedures must be followed
to effectively attend to the subject.

HOW CAN HYPOTHERMIA BE PREVENTED ?
In-water Tactics
When you’re in cold water, don’t swim unless you can reach a nearby
boat, fellow survivor or floating object. Even good swimmers drown while
swimming in cold water. Swimming lowers your body temperature.

If a nearby floating object is large, pull yourself up onto it. The more
of your body that is out of the water, the warmer you’ll be. Don’t use
drownproofing methods that call for putting your face into the water.
Keep your head out of the water to lessen heat loss and increase
survival time.

Use of the HELP position will lessen heat loss. If there are others in
the water, HUDDLE together for warmth. Keep a positive outlook; it will
improve your chances of survival.

Always wear your PFD. Even if you become helpless from hypothermia, your
PFD will keep you afloat."

The difference is they find a cold, dead body floating in his
PFD.....or, they find a barely alive cold body floating in his
rudimentary survival suit that saved his ass....Your choice.

It CAN happen to YOU....


Yes it can happen and yes it has happened. Dumped a canoe, there was
still ice on the lake. Instant soprano.

Very well stated and very good advice. Thanks for the reply.

We live a risk and reward lifestyle. Just leaving the house
increases our chances of never seeing the house again.

Safety and responsible behavior go a long way in making sure
we get to see that house again.

Just the fact that you post here suggests that on some occasion, you
have stretched the risk side of the equation.

Good luck keep yous sails out of the water.

LdB

Yes it can happen and yes it has happened. Dumped a canoe, there was
still ice on the lake. Instant soprano.



Talk about instant soprano! This is what can happen! Warning, don't
watch if you don't like magicians! Note the red overboard marker!
http://users.skynet.be/pdauwe/ursula_martinez.wmv
G