On Sun, 10 Feb 2008 01:23:36 -0800 (PST), Bob
wrote:

ANd I think one other,,,,,, now what could that be..... Oh yes....
LOTS OF MONEY

That's a given.

B O A T =

Break

Out

Another

Thousand

On Feb 10, 5:01*am, "Roger Long" wrote:
"Bob" wrote

ANd how did an "experinced" operator get in such a fix. That just
doesnt all happen at once. Its a cascade of comedy.

As a boat designer who did some surveying a long time ago, let me look over
your boat and I'll probably be able to point out a lot of ways an
experienced operator could get in such a fix.

Agreed.... I would sincerly accept your look see. but Im the kind of
guy who knows there are many others around with vast ammonts of
experience and knowledge than myself. My moto: Seek Information From
All sources. Even the arrogant asses have somehing to offer, if noting
more than what NOT to do.

Sometimes things do happen all
at once. *


I have to disagree there. I just finished a refreshing Fri/Sat get
together with 27 comand level fire fighters in Oregon. They had a lot
to say about prevention and employee training.

Having spent quite a bit of time on marine accident analysis
(Member: Marine Forensics Panel, SNAME) and had, as a pilot,

Cool..... I soloed a little C150 on my 16 birthday. After about 100
hours I geave it up. Just not much fun.


pored over many
aviation accident reports to help avoid staring in my own, I can say that
most accidents are the result of a chain of circumstances and more than one
thing going wrong at the same time. *


Yes ! Eureka ! !! ! Exactly, a "chain of events" or the analogy I
like to use is the planents are begining to align.

NO one thing jsut happens and sinks a boat. But ultmatly its the
OPERATORS who **** up. Who alowed thoes event to continue chaining
untill it all went to ****.


The odds are on your side, accidents
waiting to happen go for years and thousands of miles before reality catches
up with them.

We are on the same page and in complete agreement again. Ever hear
that joke about the guy in the flood straneded on the roof of his
flooded home. helpless trying to not fall into the raging waters
below? He prayed to god to save him. a skiff with two people go by and
ofer help but the man declines cause he knows god will save him
besides the skiff was over loaded and he did not want to be a burden.
Later a log passes, still he prays, the water sweeps the house off the
foundation and he dies. He see god and say why did yo not save me i am
a good christin and was praying for help. God say hell, is sent you a
skiff and a log why didnt you use them?


*It's all a matter of odds and statistics. *


Well yes, but if you have a revolver to your head with only one in the
chamber there is a 1:6 probability of blowing your head off. Any
prudent person woould not put the gun to their head...... SO WHY PLAY
THE GAME!
That is, for god sake man............ if your in a hole STOP DIGGING!

Every once in a
while, a Red Cloud happens but it isn't common.

Sadly, But rather predictable. The operators posts are rather
revealing. Why do certain age and gender pay more for auto insurance.
Why do people who drive in certain regions of the US have to pay more,
why are some people destined to **** up? OPERATOR ERROR. be honest
roger, are there some people you would fly with or just loan you boat
to them for a month cruise in Newfoundland???? Of course there are.



None of this is to say my boat is perfect. *I could list dozens of things
wrong with her but I'm constantly upgrading and balance her current
condition with my ambitions.

Mine included.


Smugness and "I't can't happen to me." is the primary enemy

Agreed and I wold also add just simple ignorance of what it takes to
operate safetly given local conditions. I just loved lydia's quote on
her blog describing how the sweating pig found it way on the reef, " I
was below and som how the boat went off course...." well duh bitch:
boats will drive themselves........ right onto the rocks.

and I'll have to
confess that I can smell a little bit of that around here right now.

Roger, was that a vailed criticisim direct at me??????
How out of character!
Thats okay let the **** fly I'll still read your posts. I value your
opinions and observations. The fuel system has been ver interesting.
But i have to agree with one post. WAy too comlicated for such a small
boat. KISS. Have you noticed that enven technical design is nothng
more than a philosophy..... a way of viewing the world....?

My take: 15 gal gravity feed day tank with its own in line fileter. 75
gal belly tank with its own pump inline filter. bely tank has
pollishing system. much fewer valves connections. Lose day tank
system for any reason ....one valve change and go to 75 gal tank. Just
like your Fuel Selector Valve in your plane. KISS

Bob


--
Roger Long

On Feb 8, 9:30*pm, cavalamb himself wrote:
Joe wrote:
On Feb 8, 8:41 pm, cavalamb himself wrote:

Joe wrote:

On Feb 8, 12:40 am, cavalamb himself wrote:

I've never done this before, so I feel pretty clewless (clueless for
lubbers).

Has anybody had to move a fairly big boat overland?

I need to move a Hunter 38 - in Washington state,
down to Houston (texas).

I've googled up some boat movers - but -

what to look for?
what to watch out for?

What extra expenses to plan on?

Is there a better way?

Let me know what you find out on trucking rates and size restrictions
please. I've got my eye on a 47 ft steel hull in that general area. I
know I'd have to cut off the wheelhouse but that's easy enough. I'm
interested in height restrictions more than anything.

I do like the ideal of sailing south to somewhere like San Diego then
putting it on a truck to Houston. Where are you going to keep it here
in Houston?

Joe

Golly Joe, I haven't had a chance to even look yet.

Do you have any recommendations?

Other than dinging the net for marinas in the area,
which returned more choices that I can possibly run down.
Dorothy says Corpus is "out" - dunno why but won't argue.

I'm leaning towards the Seabrook area.
Clear Lake was a lot more interesting when all we had to consider
was the C-18. *3 foot draft verses 5 feet.
But it seems Clear Lake gets kinda think at times.

Richard- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

*What do you want, and what do you want to pay?

Joe

Live aboard.

Clean restrooms and showers.

Laundry and resturants near - within walking distance.

High speed net at the pier (Dorothy's work)

Friendly neighbors.

I'd happily pay the going rate for all that...

Richard- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Well thats most Marinas here. Watergate, Portofino, Seabrook
Shipyard, Blue Dolphin, South Shore, Ledgend Point, Clear lake Marine
Center, ect..ect.. And the Boardwalk Marina.

Joe

Capt. JG wrote:

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...

On Sat, 09 Feb 2008 22:16:32 -0800, cavalamb himself
wrote:


I'm not rich enough to have that casual an attitude towards valuable and
irreplacable property.

And I pretty well know my limits at sea.

We'll truck her down.

I'll have about 10% of her value invested then - not much by rich man
standards maybe.

And I'm getting a lot more boat for the money than I expected to buy.

That doesn't make her disposable...

Good attitude, good decision. It's a long hard trip by water.




It's not that hard going south, especially if you choose your weather window
carefully. Certainly going as far as SD isn't difficult.




That's about 1/5 of the way, right?

"cavalamb himself" wrote in message
...
Capt. JG wrote:

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...

On Sat, 09 Feb 2008 22:16:32 -0800, cavalamb himself
wrote:


I'm not rich enough to have that casual an attitude towards valuable and
irreplacable property.

And I pretty well know my limits at sea.

We'll truck her down.

I'll have about 10% of her value invested then - not much by rich man
standards maybe.

And I'm getting a lot more boat for the money than I expected to buy.

That doesn't make her disposable...

Good attitude, good decision. It's a long hard trip by water.




It's not that hard going south, especially if you choose your weather
window carefully. Certainly going as far as SD isn't difficult.




That's about 1/5 of the way, right?


True, but you only get potentially bad winds in southern Mexico. If I had
the time, I'd take her down to Cabo then putz around La Paz and north before
heading across to Mazalan... then head south. Lots and lots of people do
this.


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Roger Long" wrote:
Even the best found vessel and most experienced crew can come to grief.
That's the nature of the sea.

Yes it is.
Some people find "danger" alluring, although they probably don't have
the knowledge & experience to connect it with being cold & seasick for
days at a time. Where is the romance in that?

Also a HUGE number of cruisers & sailors have not seen & don't believe
in the ocean's tremendous power. I once read that a hurricane stores &
releases as much energy as a dozen atom bombs... a trite saying...
however I have seen North Sea waves rip steel fittings off a U.S. Navy
warship (actually I didn't see it, but I saw what was left on the main
deck when the storm cleared) and thought to myself "no small sailboat
ever built could possibly survive this." Yet many people will debate
"ultimate storm tactics" and talk about which crab-crusher is the MOST
seaworthy and discuss their ideas about the design/construction of an
"all-weather cruiser."


That article by a USCG rescue swimmer in "Yachting" I posted about a while
ago was interesting because of the point that one of these guys could go
through a whole career without rescuing someone who had deployed some kind
of drogue. I don't think the drogue itself is the reason. People who have
that kind of equipment will most likely have made the other physical and
psychological preparations to enable them to deal with severe weather.

Yep... they had knowledge & skills as well as equipment and a properly
prepared boat.


There will always be exceptions on both ends of the spectrum but the
majority of chopper rides home are people doing just what the OP would be
doing if he tried to sail that boat to Texas. He probably would make it
just fine because the odds are usually on your side at sea. They are on
your side in Russian Roulette too.


I like the Russian Roulette analogy. By going to sea, you are taking a
spin of the cylinder and snapping the trigger. Yet you can improve
your odds (analogous to adding extra empty chambers, or taking bullets
out if you prefer) by learning skills, prepping & upgrading the boat
(and one of the dirty little secrets of cruising is that no boat is
fully ready; what's worse is the woeful inadequacy of most boats on
the market), adding equipment (bearing in mind that you can't carry
everything for every possible emergency, and safety is not something
you can put on Mastercharge).

Familiarity with the boat & it's characteristics is a huge plus, too.
That's another big fly in the ointment for many, because it takes
TIME.

We had a good breeze on the river today, rather impressive chop too...
~ 30 kts and nobody at the sailing club went out.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

cavalamb himself wrote:

Well thats most Marinas here. Watergate, Portofino, Seabrook
Shipyard, Blue Dolphin, South Shore, Ledgend Point, Clear lake Marine
Center, ect..ect.. And the Boardwalk Marina.

Joe



All it takes sometimes is a clue!

Indeed, like snipping a little.

Cheers
Marty

On 2008-02-09 23:28:11 -0500, "Roger Long" said:

Good for you. You did see that the bulge in my cheek was my tongue did
you not?

A smiley would have helped. I read it and ultimately decided someone
must have forged your header.

--
Jere Lull
Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD
Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

On 2008-02-10 13:19:26 -0500, "Capt. JG" said:

No responsible captain would leave port on a yacht that isn't prepared
properly.

Yet delivery skippers do it all too often.

--
Jere Lull
Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD
Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

On Feb 10, 9:19*pm, Jere Lull wrote:
On 2008-02-10 13:19:26 -0500, "Capt. JG" said:

No responsible captain would leave port on a yacht that isn't prepared
properly.

Yet delivery skippers do it all too often.

--
Jere

Yes Jere. absolutly agreed. ANd that is why every cople years in the
PNW some puker boat captain AKA Charter Boat OUPV kills 5 or 20
unsuspecting coastal visitors. It dont tak much to get a USCG 25 ton
inland master or an an OUPV (6Pack) licensse. In fact just own a 16'
skiff with an outboard and you got the qualifying Sea Service.

kinda scary when some guy spouts off, Hell ya Im a Captain!
Bob