This past summer, I purchased a Raymarine E120, 2 KW Raydome radar,
GPS and Wind/Speed/Depth instruments for my CNC Landfall 48.

The E120 product has MASSIVE shortcomings, which are documented by
myself on YouTube: http://youtube.com/user/cognisense

I had to send the unit to Raymarine warranty support, and they
replaced the motherboard. The unit in the videos has under 2 hours of
operation on it after Raymarine 'blessed' it when I shot these videos.

I was without the unit for 8 weeks while they waited for non-defective
replacement motherboards to arrive.

And the videos document what they claim as 'non-defective'.

I encourage everyone considering a Raymarine navigation system to take
a look at these videos.

Just fighting to get my money back. I'm going back to raster charts
on a PC.

wrote:
This past summer, I purchased a Raymarine E120, 2 KW Raydome radar,
GPS and Wind/Speed/Depth instruments for my CNC Landfall 48.

The E120 product has MASSIVE shortcomings, which are documented by
myself on YouTube: http://youtube.com/user/cognisense

I had to send the unit to Raymarine warranty support, and they
replaced the motherboard. The unit in the videos has under 2 hours of
operation on it after Raymarine 'blessed' it when I shot these videos.

I was without the unit for 8 weeks while they waited for non-defective
replacement motherboards to arrive.

And the videos document what they claim as 'non-defective'.

I encourage everyone considering a Raymarine navigation system to take
a look at these videos.

Just fighting to get my money back. I'm going back to raster charts
on a PC.

From what I have seen of their instrumentation, they are very
impressive-looking crap, complex, difficult to master, and certainly not
very reliable.

You are doing the right thing going "back" to rasters on a PC or laptop.

Dennis.

It's very clear that the OP has problems with the unit as the behavior
that it exhibits is not normal. Seeing the boat position jump around
makes me think that the GPS antenna (or whatever is providing the
positiion data) is at fault. I can imagine that if that's the case,
that the repair facility can't find a problem with the C120.

It isn't clear where the video was shot, but if the video was shot
while at anchor, then you can easily understand why the radar overlay
of the charts isn't in sync as the GPS can't determine the course
while not in motion. This will cause the radar overlay to do exactly
what is being shown on the video and makes me believe that the author
doesn't understand how the overlay (or chartplotters in general) work.

I will agree that the user interface can be a bit confusing at times,
but the video certainly makes it appear that the owner hasn't learned
the interface. His complaint could be aimed at any manufactures'
unit. It's really up to the purchaser to do their homework before
purchasing the unit to determine if they like the interface. You can
walk into any Westmarine and play with the RayMarine units as long as
you want, so I don't have a lot of sympathy for this complaint.

The software on the C120 allows you to view/log the SeaTalk data and
see error counts. I would concentrate on this and get some
professional assistance to debug the system. Remember, all of the
units on the share a common bus, and any device on the bus can
potentially cause problems.

-- Geoff

On Tue, 29 Jan 2008 05:35:59 -0800 (PST), GeoffSchultz
wrote:

It isn't clear where the video was shot, but if the video was shot
while at anchor, then you can easily understand why the radar overlay
of the charts isn't in sync as the GPS can't determine the course
while not in motion.

What is really needed is a separate fluxgate compass heading sensor so
that the chartplotter/radar does not depend on the GPS for directional
information (Course Over Ground/COG). COG can introduce heading error
even when the boat is moving if you are in a cross current or making
significant leeway.

http://www.jmsonline.net/RAYMARINE-S...DER-E12102.htm

or something similar.

On Jan 29, 5:35 am, GeoffSchultz
wrote:

It's very clear that the OP has problems with the unit as the behavior
that it exhibits is not normal.

Other than the screen black-outs, my E120 displayed all other
complaints prior to sending the unit in for 'repair.' I have another
friend who has a brand-new unit, installed professionally onto a brand-
new 47 foot Island Packet. Same behavior on his unit as well.


Seeing the boat position jump around makes me think that
the GPS antenna ... is at fault.

I sent the GPS unit in at the same time as the E120, and they claimed
it was flawless.


It isn't clear where the video was shot, but if the video was shot
while at anchor, then you can easily understand why the
radar overlay of the charts isn't in sync

That portion of the video which shows the radar being out of sync with
the chart was shot while underway, doing 8.2 knots approaching Roche
Harbor in the San Juan Islands. I suspect that the true reason the
radar is out of sync is because the chart drawing routines are
significantly slower than the radar drawing routines. But regardless,
the behavior and reliability of the E120 is self-evident as
demonstrated in my videos.


You can walk into any Westmarine and play with the RayMarine units
as long as you want, so I don't have a lot of sympathy for this complaint.

I did, in fact, play with the Raymarine in retail stores. Several, in
fact. In each and every one, the only charts available to me were the
built-in demo charts of the Port of Miami. I also played with it at
the Vancouver Boat Show, and had many targeted and specific questions
of the Raymarine representative. The bottom line is that the unit
looks beautiful when you're sitting still in a building on land. I'm
not making this stuff up - I posted these videos because I sincerely
want people to see what these systems are like - AFTER you've paid
your $15,000, drilled holes on your boat, and have taken the time to
install. When you actually get these products installed, and see them
in action, on the water, as my videos document, what you see is what
you actually get.


The software on the C120 allows you to view/log the SeaTalk data and
see error counts. I would concentrate on this and get some
professional assistance to debug the system.

I haven't yet posted my video documenting my attempts at getting
technical support from Raymarine, but believe me, I have tried. I
phoned my dealer within 2 weeks of installation, informing him of my
complaints. No satisfaction. So a month later, I phoned the
distributor of Raymarine products in Canada. The representative was
defensive, accusatory and blatantly rude. I phoned Raymarine tech
support. The tech told me to document the complaints and post it to
their website. I did so on Nov 10, 2007. No reply. I phoned
Raymarine warranty service on Dec 14. No reply. I phoned the VP of
International Sales, no reply.

I have a complete record of all of my attempts to resolve this
situation amicably. To date, I have received absolutely no help from
Raymarine, it's distributors nor my dealer.

Dave wrote:
On Tue, 29 Jan 2008 05:35:59 -0800 (PST), GeoffSchultz
said:

The software on the C120 allows you to view/log the SeaTalk data and
see error counts. I would concentrate on this and get some
professional assistance to debug the system.

I don't think he's looking for help of that sort, Geoff. About every six
months you have somebody show up here thinking he's gonna improve his
negotiating posture with one manufacturer or another by blasting them on
usenet. After a while the temper tantrums get pretty old.

After watching the video, I'd say he has a valid complaint.
Gordon

"cognisense" wrote in message
...
On Jan 29, 5:35 am, GeoffSchultz
wrote:

It's very clear that the OP has problems with the unit as the behavior
that it exhibits is not normal.

Other than the screen black-outs, my E120 displayed all other
complaints prior to sending the unit in for 'repair.' I have another
friend who has a brand-new unit, installed professionally onto a brand-
new 47 foot Island Packet. Same behavior on his unit as well.


Seeing the boat position jump around makes me think that
the GPS antenna ... is at fault.

I sent the GPS unit in at the same time as the E120, and they claimed
it was flawless.


It isn't clear where the video was shot, but if the video was shot
while at anchor, then you can easily understand why the
radar overlay of the charts isn't in sync

That portion of the video which shows the radar being out of sync with
the chart was shot while underway, doing 8.2 knots approaching Roche
Harbor in the San Juan Islands. I suspect that the true reason the
radar is out of sync is because the chart drawing routines are
significantly slower than the radar drawing routines. But regardless,
the behavior and reliability of the E120 is self-evident as
demonstrated in my videos.


You can walk into any Westmarine and play with the RayMarine units
as long as you want, so I don't have a lot of sympathy for this
complaint.

I did, in fact, play with the Raymarine in retail stores. Several, in
fact. In each and every one, the only charts available to me were the
built-in demo charts of the Port of Miami. I also played with it at
the Vancouver Boat Show, and had many targeted and specific questions
of the Raymarine representative. The bottom line is that the unit
looks beautiful when you're sitting still in a building on land. I'm
not making this stuff up - I posted these videos because I sincerely
want people to see what these systems are like - AFTER you've paid
your $15,000, drilled holes on your boat, and have taken the time to
install. When you actually get these products installed, and see them
in action, on the water, as my videos document, what you see is what
you actually get.


The software on the C120 allows you to view/log the SeaTalk data and
see error counts. I would concentrate on this and get some
professional assistance to debug the system.

I haven't yet posted my video documenting my attempts at getting
technical support from Raymarine, but believe me, I have tried. I
phoned my dealer within 2 weeks of installation, informing him of my
complaints. No satisfaction. So a month later, I phoned the
distributor of Raymarine products in Canada. The representative was
defensive, accusatory and blatantly rude. I phoned Raymarine tech
support. The tech told me to document the complaints and post it to
their website. I did so on Nov 10, 2007. No reply. I phoned
Raymarine warranty service on Dec 14. No reply. I phoned the VP of
International Sales, no reply.

I have a complete record of all of my attempts to resolve this
situation amicably. To date, I have received absolutely no help from
Raymarine, it's distributors nor my dealer.

Sounds like a legitimate complaint to me... perhaps you have recourse
through your credit card? I'm sure you've either thought of it or it isn't
possible. The only quibble I have is re the UI... isn't this something
that's independent of the jumping boat, screen blanking, etc.? Seems like
that part should have been observable before purchase.

I'm not sure how posting will help your efforts, but it will certainly alert
others to be uber-cautious with their products (as we should be with all
products, especially those costing $15K).

Perhaps you can file a complaint with your Better Business Bureau, and then
there is always the take-them-to-court option.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Sounds like a legitimate complaint to me... perhaps you have recourse
through your credit card? I'm sure you've either thought of it or it isn't
possible. The only quibble I have is re the UI... isn't this something
that's independent of the jumping boat, screen blanking, etc.? Seems like
that part should have been observable before purchase.

I'm not sure how posting will help your efforts, but it will certainly alert
others to be uber-cautious with their products (as we should be with all
products, especially those costing $15K).

Perhaps you can file a complaint with your Better Business Bureau, and then
there is always the take-them-to-court option.


The BBB has no enforcement powers but will make inquiries on your
behalf and will put the offending company in their files. Trouble is no
one goes to the BBB to check to see a company is in their files.
G

Once again I will state that you need to look at the system as a
whole. The display head my not have any problems, but there could be
issues with devices on the SeaTalk bus. This possibly includes a
SeaTalk GPS antenna and any other instruments.

I have a C80 which runs the same software that is on the C120 and I've
never seen any of the issues that you describe. The only difference
between the C80 and the C120 (that I know of) is the size of the
display. Since RayMarine has already replaced the system board on the
display, this makes me believe that the problem lies elsewhere within
the *system*.

Who installed the system for you? Have you had the installer out to
figure out what's going on? What other devices are in the SeaTalk
bus? Have you reviewed the output of the diagnostics such as SeaTalk
message errors? As far as RayMarine tech support, I have always found
them very reasonable to deal with if you approach them with a
reasonable attitide.

-- Geoff

On Jan 29, 9:14 am, GeoffSchultz
wrote:
Once again I will state that you need to look at the system as a
whole. ...

It seems quite possible that the refresh and positioning problems
could be a result of network issues. A bad cable or connection or a
faulty talker could be overwhelming the network with bad packets.
This happens on LANs all the time and is one of the potential
downsides of networked instrument systems.

... As far as RayMarine tech support, I have always found
them very reasonable to deal with if you approach them with a
reasonable attitide. ...

I guess the tech support must be hit or miss. I've never gotten any
satisfaction from them and I've tried hard. Also, my experience with
my Raytheon radar has been mixed at best and I would not recommend it.
Although, that's a moot point as they have moved on the their new
tech.

--Tom.