As the original discussion has wandered a great deal, I'll start a new
one.

We're working our way down the ICW in order to miss Hatteras. We were
already in the Alligator-Pungo Canal when I overheard chatter on 16 to
the effect that a couple of power boaters had severely waked a couple
of sailboaters just before the turn into the canal.

The conversation I overheard had to do with something else, but
because it included a boat we'd become friendly with in an earlier
stop, I called to find out what was up.

The short story was that these two big boats had blown by without so
much as slowing down, let alone doing a slow pass, or even
acknowledging a hail. In two separate chatters, I'd heard two
different boats being taken to task; over the next while I learned
their names.

As those who bother to read my logs know, we've got Lydia's 82 year
old mother aboard with us. This provided a good opportunity to flex
some muscle. My comments (on 68 so as to not alert others as to what
was to come, but also not to tie up the hailing channel) to the other
boat we'd heard tell of this were to the effect that perhaps if I were
to warn them about the potential consequences of their behavior, it
might moderate. I did so (see below) but got no response. Follow up
with my friend included that likely not only had they heard, but,
certainly, the USCG had heard as well (they have been doing their
regular "get off this channel and take it to a working channel" bit
for those whose chatter goes beyond a couple of words or a single
exchange).

Here's what I said: "Grain of Salt (later shown to be grain of sand,
but I'm sure they got the point), Grain of Salt, Grain of Salt, this
is Sailing Vessel Flying Pig, ahead of you. We're aware of your
behavior. We have an 82 year old woman aboard. If you pass us like
you did the last couple of sailboats, and your wake causes her to lose
her balance and she is injured, be advised that we *WILL* take you to
court. Flying Pig out."

Not surprisingly, nothing was heard (despite the fact of the mistaken
name, I can't imagine there was any confusion on the point). Later,
we heard traffic complaining about these same two boats' passage
behavior, but it sounded like each successive one got a little better.

Finally, three power boats were coming up on our stern. I got on the
blower and said, "Southbound power boats approaching southbound St.
Thomas registry sailboat (our name is on the bow and sideboards, not
the stern), when you get to me, I'll pull over to the right and go
into neutral to allow you a safe slow pass." Nothing heard.

That's what I did - and that's what they did. The two miscreants were
in the lead, and another followed right behind. There was a fourth
rather further behind, and he continued to blast along, alarming the
ladyfolk, but I said, and it proved correct, that he was just closing
the gap. Just at the right time, he pulled it back, and idled by.

I thanked them and congratulated all on the perfect pass, and they all
picked it up again and continued to blast along. I heard nothing
further from any down the line about what jerks they were, so I gather
they got the point.

Last night (boats tend to move in flotillas) we were chatting with
another boat we'd met along the way, and they commented on how lovely
and considerate all the power boaters had seemed to be - but they'd
been in front of us, and so would have experienced these boats after
us. We have, indeed, encountered - generally - great courtesy, as
we've gone along. However, these above, I also heard in chatter, I
think, must have been inexperienced, as I heard, not long before they
got to us, some complaint (an attempt, not successful, in doing the
slow pass) being responded to as "a learning experience in progress" -
so perhaps they got their training in the Alligator-Pungo Canal :{))

We're off to Oriental next. As a side note to the above experience,
we were sailing for part of our time, and were quite stiff. So, when
overtakers would hail us, or, if nothing heard, I'd tell them
unilaterally, I assured them they could blast on by. They appreciated
that effort, too.

L8R

Skip

Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
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make it come true. You may have to work for it however."
(and)
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hands. You seek problems because you need their gifts."
(Richard Bach, in The Reluctant Messiah)

On 2007-11-09 07:50:07 -0500, Skip Gundlach said:

Here's what I said: "Grain of Salt (later shown to be grain of sand,
but I'm sure they got the point), Grain of Salt, Grain of Salt, this
is Sailing Vessel Flying Pig, ahead of you. We're aware of your
behavior. We have an 82 year old woman aboard. If you pass us like
you did the last couple of sailboats, and your wake causes her to lose
her balance and she is injured, be advised that we *WILL* take you to
court. Flying Pig out."

Not surprisingly, nothing was heard (despite the fact of the mistaken
name, I can't imagine there was any confusion on the point). Later,
we heard traffic complaining about these same two boats' passage
behavior, but it sounded like each successive one got a little better.

Finally, three power boats were coming up on our stern. I got on the
blower and said, "Southbound power boats approaching southbound St.
Thomas registry sailboat (our name is on the bow and sideboards, not
the stern), when you get to me, I'll pull over to the right and go
into neutral to allow you a safe slow pass." Nothing heard.

That's what I did - and that's what they did. The two miscreants were
in the lead, and another followed right behind. There was a fourth
rather further behind, and he continued to blast along, alarming the
ladyfolk, but I said, and it proved correct, that he was just closing
the gap. Just at the right time, he pulled it back, and idled by.

I thanked them and congratulated all on the perfect pass, and they all
picked it up again and continued to blast along. I heard nothing
further from any down the line about what jerks they were, so I gather
they got the point.

Last night (boats tend to move in flotillas) we were chatting with
another boat we'd met along the way, and they commented on how lovely
and considerate all the power boaters had seemed to be - but they'd
been in front of us, and so would have experienced these boats after
us. We have, indeed, encountered - generally - great courtesy, as
we've gone along. However, these above, I also heard in chatter, I
think, must have been inexperienced, as I heard, not long before they
got to us, some complaint (an attempt, not successful, in doing the
slow pass) being responded to as "a learning experience in progress" -
so perhaps they got their training in the Alligator-Pungo Canal :{))

Sounds like the perfect solution to the power boat problem. And it IS
a problem! We encounter them when we're out sailing -- seems like some
of them speed up just as they're going by us. I'm not sure if they're
trying to make a point ("Get out of my way, you fat, slow sailboat!")
or just want to see if they can swamp us.

But what REALLY scared me is when DH and I were out swimming in the
creek (unlike where I grew up, THIS creek has three marinas within
swimming distance of us) and power boats would dart out of the channel
to check us out, swimming along the shore. I was afraid that they'd
run over ME trying to see what DH was up to, or vice versa. Once
they'd determined that we were human swimmers, many of them would rev
up the engine to dart back into the channel. A wake is uncomfortable
in a sailboat -- dangerous to a swimmer. What's up with THAT?!

Ruby

Skip Gundlach wrote:

Finally, three power boats were coming up on our stern. I got on the
blower and said, "Southbound power boats approaching southbound St.
Thomas registry sailboat (our name is on the bow and sideboards, not
the stern), when you get to me, I'll pull over to the right and go
into neutral to allow you a safe slow pass." Nothing heard.

I used to hang out the side of the boat with a camera to take their
picture sometimes.

That's what I did - and that's what they did. The two miscreants were
in the lead, and another followed right behind. There was a fourth
rather further behind, and he continued to blast along, alarming the
ladyfolk, but I said, and it proved correct, that he was just closing
the gap. Just at the right time, he pulled it back, and idled by.


When we were first in the ICW, it took us a little while to learn how
to do a good pass. When a clued-in power boater would ask us to slow
down so they could pass, I would be like "slow down - we're already
slower than paint drying", and we wouldn't go into neutral.

I thanked them and congratulated all on the perfect pass, and they all
picked it up again and continued to blast along. I heard nothing
further from any down the line about what jerks they were, so I gather
they got the point.

Last night (boats tend to move in flotillas) we were chatting with
another boat we'd met along the way, and they commented on how lovely
and considerate all the power boaters had seemed to be - but they'd
been in front of us, and so would have experienced these boats after
us. We have, indeed, encountered - generally - great courtesy, as
we've gone along. However, these above, I also heard in chatter, I
think, must have been inexperienced, as I heard, not long before they
got to us, some complaint (an attempt, not successful, in doing the
slow pass) being responded to as "a learning experience in progress" -
so perhaps they got their training in the Alligator-Pungo Canal :{))

In one way the Canal would have helped because I have an absolutely
terrible time with power boaters who think that they are doing us a
favor by going a long way away from us before they pass. In a canal,
they can't do that.

We're off to Oriental next. As a side note to the above experience,
we were sailing for part of our time, and were quite stiff. So, when
overtakers would hail us, or, if nothing heard, I'd tell them
unilaterally, I assured them they could blast on by. They appreciated
that effort, too.

Just incidentally, there's supposed to be a significant problem on the
ICW near Swansboro, but I expect you are going outside at Beaufort
(??)

On Nov 9, 11:58 am, Ruby Vee wrote:
On 2007-11-09 07:50:07 -0500, Skip Gundlach said:





Here's what I said: "Grain of Salt (later shown to be grain of sand,
but I'm sure they got the point), Grain of Salt, Grain of Salt, this
is Sailing Vessel Flying Pig, ahead of you. We're aware of your
behavior. We have an 82 year old woman aboard. If you pass us like
you did the last couple of sailboats, and your wake causes her to lose
her balance and she is injured, be advised that we *WILL* take you to
court. Flying Pig out."

Not surprisingly, nothing was heard (despite the fact of the mistaken
name, I can't imagine there was any confusion on the point). Later,
we heard traffic complaining about these same two boats' passage
behavior, but it sounded like each successive one got a little better.

Finally, three power boats were coming up on our stern. I got on the
blower and said, "Southbound power boats approaching southbound St.
Thomas registry sailboat (our name is on the bow and sideboards, not
the stern), when you get to me, I'll pull over to the right and go
into neutral to allow you a safe slow pass." Nothing heard.

That's what I did - and that's what they did. The two miscreants were
in the lead, and another followed right behind. There was a fourth
rather further behind, and he continued to blast along, alarming the
ladyfolk, but I said, and it proved correct, that he was just closing
the gap. Just at the right time, he pulled it back, and idled by.

I thanked them and congratulated all on the perfect pass, and they all
picked it up again and continued to blast along. I heard nothing
further from any down the line about what jerks they were, so I gather
they got the point.

Last night (boats tend to move in flotillas) we were chatting with
another boat we'd met along the way, and they commented on how lovely
and considerate all the power boaters had seemed to be - but they'd
been in front of us, and so would have experienced these boats after
us. We have, indeed, encountered - generally - great courtesy, as
we've gone along. However, these above, I also heard in chatter, I
think, must have been inexperienced, as I heard, not long before they
got to us, some complaint (an attempt, not successful, in doing the
slow pass) being responded to as "a learning experience in progress" -
so perhaps they got their training in the Alligator-Pungo Canal :{))

Sounds like the perfect solution to the power boat problem. And it IS
a problem! We encounter them when we're out sailing -- seems like some
of them speed up just as they're going by us. I'm not sure if they're
trying to make a point ("Get out of my way, you fat, slow sailboat!")
or just want to see if they can swamp us.

But what REALLY scared me is when DH and I were out swimming in the
creek (unlike where I grew up, THIS creek has three marinas within
swimming distance of us) and power boats would dart out of the channel
to check us out, swimming along the shore. I was afraid that they'd
run over ME trying to see what DH was up to, or vice versa. Once
they'd determined that we were human swimmers, many of them would rev
up the engine to dart back into the channel. A wake is uncomfortable
in a sailboat -- dangerous to a swimmer. What's up with THAT?!

Ruby- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Just a few comments.

I've done the ditch back and forth between NY and Florida many times
delivering boats. Most power boaters know enough to slow down when
overtaking a slower vessel, and most sail boaters know enough to turn
into the wake as they go by. Their are a few bad apples on both sides,
I have seen several sail boats that refused to move aside and let
anyone pass, most learned the hard way that was the wrong thing to do.
Some even beleaved they always had the right of way, which they don't.
I've seen sail boats refuse to give way to large commercial traffic,
with tragic results, all the while claiming "I had the right of way".

And their are some sail boaters beleave that the water should be
without a single ripple, that's not going to happen, get over it.

Your on a boat, and waves, be they from Mother Nature, or from another
boat, are going to happen. If you'r stupid enough to bring a frail old
lady on your boat, and she gets injured, that's your responsibility.
You can try to blame it on whoever you want, you were the one foolish
enough to take her along. Did you ever hear of storms? Do you think
large commercial traffic, that throw large wakes, that must maintain
headway to maintain control is, or will, slow down because you made a
mistake, and you want him to place himself, his crew and vessel, at
risk because of your bad decision? Go ahead and get on the radio and
rant about how your going to sue anyone that rocks your boat. No one's
going to give you a response, such a message does not deserve a
response. See if you can get a lawyer to do what you want, good luck,
it's not going to happen. You may be the one who gets sued by the
"little old lady". Captians who injure their passangers on pleasure
boats get sued by them all the time, you could become one of them.

Your on the water, never depend on the other person to do the right
thing, that's how accidents happen. And never take someone on board
that could be seriously injured by as a result of things that might
happen during the course of a normal day on the water. To do so is a
sign of a poor captian, one that takes risk that he shouldn't take.

On Fri, 09 Nov 2007 09:48:10 -0800, Capt John wrote:

snip
....yawn...
*plonk*

Capt John wrote:

Just a few comments.

I've done the ditch back and forth between NY and Florida many times
delivering boats. Most power boaters know enough to slow down when
overtaking a slower vessel, and most sail boaters know enough to turn
into the wake as they go by. Their are a few bad apples on both sides,
I have seen several sail boats that refused to move aside and let
anyone pass, most learned the hard way that was the wrong thing to do.

Sometimes if the channel is narrow, the sailboat can't move to the
side. We saw one guy near Barefoot (in the Rock Pile) who was
attempting to be courteous by moving into what looked like an inlet
area. What he didn't realize that there was a rock ledge right under
the water. He was stuck there for a considerable time as a result of
trying to move aside and probably had damage to his boat's bottom.

Sometimes power boats just have to be patient and wait to pass in a
better place.

And their are some sail boaters beleave that the water should be
without a single ripple, that's not going to happen, get over it.

We were passed once by two power boats - one went on the port side and
one went on the starboard side. We were bounced around a bit, but not
badly. However the sailboat ahead of us (a bit to our starboard), did
not see the power boat that passed on our port side because it was on
the other side of us. They had a bit rougher go because of that.

The fact that there may be non-manmade waves does not exempt power
boaters from being responsible for their wakes.

"Rosalie B." wrote in message
...
Capt John wrote:

Just a few comments.

I've done the ditch back and forth between NY and Florida many times
delivering boats. Most power boaters know enough to slow down when
overtaking a slower vessel, and most sail boaters know enough to turn
into the wake as they go by. Their are a few bad apples on both sides,
I have seen several sail boats that refused to move aside and let
anyone pass, most learned the hard way that was the wrong thing to do.

Sometimes if the channel is narrow, the sailboat can't move to the
side. We saw one guy near Barefoot (in the Rock Pile) who was
attempting to be courteous by moving into what looked like an inlet
area. What he didn't realize that there was a rock ledge right under
the water. He was stuck there for a considerable time as a result of
trying to move aside and probably had damage to his boat's bottom.

Sometimes power boats just have to be patient and wait to pass in a
better place.

And their are some sail boaters beleave that the water should be
without a single ripple, that's not going to happen, get over it.

We were passed once by two power boats - one went on the port side and
one went on the starboard side. We were bounced around a bit, but not
badly. However the sailboat ahead of us (a bit to our starboard), did
not see the power boat that passed on our port side because it was on
the other side of us. They had a bit rougher go because of that.

The fact that there may be non-manmade waves does not exempt power
boaters from being responsible for their wakes.



We've had a similar situation happen in the Marina Bay channel, which is
quite narrow. It's really a two-lane channel, and very unforgiving as far as
bottom goes on the right, returning side. (The other side is the edge of a
building/pier.) Coming in one day, I had a PB pass on my port, while another
sailboat was coming out. We were already on the edge of the channel making
room for the on-coming SB. The other SB saw what was happening and moved to
his right as far as possible, and fortunately, the PB got by us, with a big,
but manageable wake. Then, not knowing what the f*ck he was doing, went even
further to the right and ran aground in the mud. Sweet justice. Then, a
couple of minutes later, another PB did the same thing. I think the first PB
must called the second for help, since the pretty much went there directly
after zooming past us and you could see he was on his cell phone. More sweet
justice... they ran aground also. There was a Sea Tow boat coming out from
the marina who saw the whole thing. As he went by us, I could see he was
laughing.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Hey Skip,
Did you see the Spirit of Nantucket, or were you ahead of her ?

On Fri, 9 Nov 2007 18:33:24 -0500, "Garland Gray II"
wrote:

Hey Skip,
Did you see the Spirit of Nantucket, or were you ahead of her ?

Did they get it moved yet, and is the Virginia Cut fully open?

I can't believe they were going through there during the night
although tugs with barges do it all the time.

On Nov 9, 8:07 pm, Wayne.B wrote:
On Fri, 9 Nov 2007 18:33:24 -0500, "Garland Gray II"

wrote:
Hey Skip,
Did you see the Spirit of Nantucket, or were you ahead of her ?

Did they get it moved yet, and is the Virginia Cut fully open?

I can't believe they were going through there during the night
although tugs with barges do it all the time.



I apparently was in front, as I didn't see her. We had no problem in
the VA cut, but then, we took the non-dismal route, so if that's where
you're talking about, it was still closed when we went. In any event,
we couldn't do that, cuz we're too deep.

In (near) Oriental, we're heading to Cape Lookout to join some
friends, and then go outside to Charleston to meet up with Larry, pick
up some gear and get that alternator replaced (the one the vendor
screwed up on), then head to Savannah. So, I'll be out of touch for a
few days...

L8R

Skip