"jeff" wrote in message
...
Robert Musgine wrote:
"jeff" wrote in message
. ..
David L. Martel wrote:
I don't quite follow the kayak story. Why couldn't you luff your
sail. Sounds like they had the right of way
How do you figure that?


http://www.auxetrain.org/navhelp.html

"Man-powered boats (e.g. canoes, rowboats, etc.) have the right of way
over sailboats, powerboats, and seaplanes.."

The kayakers had the right of way.

Now that's really classic - a CG Aux instruction page that blatantly
misrepresents the rules. Sorry Robert, there is no rule for ColReg or
Inland waters that even mentions "man powered boats" other than to say
what lights are appropriate. The CG Aux person is just making that up;
there is no such rule. It would be different if they had been in State
waters, instead of Inland waters, but that was not the case here.


I'm continually amazed by the lack of knowledge that some in the Auxiliary
display.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

On Nov 6, 4:56 pm, "Robert Musgine" wrote:
... http://www.auxetrain.org/navhelp.html

"Man-powered boats (e.g. canoes, rowboats, etc.) have the right of way over
sailboats, powerboats, and seaplanes.."

The kayakers had the right of way.

This _may_ be the case in _some_ state's water's but it is not for
federal or international waters. COLREGS has no mention of "man-
powered-boats". See Rule 3.

-- Tom.

"jeff" wrote in message
. ..
David L. Martel wrote:

I don't quite follow the kayak story. Why couldn't you luff your sail.
Sounds like they had the right of way

How do you figure that?


Because he's a stalking coward?

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"David L. Martel" wrote in message
...
JG,

I don't quite follow the kayak story. Why couldn't you luff your sail.
Sounds like they had the right of way and I don't think that you had an
emergency.

Dave M.



Good question... couldn't luff without going aground. They crossed in front
of me without regard to my ability to maneauver. Not sure what you mean
about an emergency, since it wasn't. I started/engaged the engine as I said
to avoid hitting them.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

On 2007-11-06 14:44:50 -0500, "Capt. JG" said:

Ok, so we proceeded to sail, then got to a good spot to turn on the engine
and drop the sails. Did this, motored about 200 meters, when the cooling
water hi temp alarm came on.

THAT concerns me! The kayaker was just bucking for a Darwin award.

We've found that even with the fresh water closed off, we have about 5
minutes' run-time at cruise power (about 2200 rpm) before the high-temp
alarm sounds -- quite a bit further than 200 meters. We used that
reserve once about a decade ago, so I know it exists.

--
Jere Lull
Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD
Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

"Jere Lull" wrote in message
news:2007110620504143658-jerelull@maccom...
On 2007-11-06 14:44:50 -0500, "Capt. JG" said:

Ok, so we proceeded to sail, then got to a good spot to turn on the
engine
and drop the sails. Did this, motored about 200 meters, when the cooling
water hi temp alarm came on.

THAT concerns me! The kayaker was just bucking for a Darwin award.

After thinking about it between then and now and recalling the expression of
"determination" on his face, I'm now under the impression that he just
didn't know how to control his kayak (which would still qualify for the
award, given the general location). Some people think because the sun is
shining and there's no wind, there are no other hazards... like other boats,
currents, etc.


We've found that even with the fresh water closed off, we have about 5
minutes' run-time at cruise power (about 2200 rpm) before the high-temp
alarm sounds -- quite a bit further than 200 meters. We used that reserve
once about a decade ago, so I know it exists.

--
Jere Lull
Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD
Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/


I know you're right... we did run the engine from time to time during the
trek back, but at lower rpm and for shorter times..

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

On Wed, 07 Nov 2007 01:50:41 GMT, Jere Lull wrote:

We've found that even with the fresh water closed off, we have about 5
minutes' run-time at cruise power (about 2200 rpm) before the high-temp
alarm sounds -- quite a bit further than 200 meters. We used that
reserve once about a decade ago, so I know it exists.

I am not sure I would rely on the light to protect the engine. I know
that it is supposed to...

What do you mean by fresh water. My [22 ft sterndrive] is cooled by
glycol and has a heat exchanger. If I am floating in salt water, there
is no fresh water involved anywhere.

I have heard the heat exchanger/glycol arrangement refered to as fresh
water cooling. There is seldom [never?] a shutoff in the coolant
lines, although there is generally a seacock in the raw water line.
When was the last time you saw a shutoff in a car cooling system?
One thing is certain, unless the pump is managing to circulate coolant
through the engine, it won't last anything like five minutes. The
difference between driving with a broken fan belt, and driving with no
coolant. That will warp the head[s] almost immediately. You got away
with it once, so appearantly the light gives sufficient warning. I
like a gauge. That shows up a problem sooner than a light. My car has
both gauge and light for the oil pressure.

Casady

On 2007-12-06 11:47:45 -0500, (Richard
Casady) said:

We've found that even with the fresh water closed off, we have about 5
minutes' run-time at cruise power (about 2200 rpm) before the high-temp
alarm sounds -- quite a bit further than 200 meters. We used that
reserve once about a decade ago, so I know it exists.

What do you mean by fresh water. My [22 ft sterndrive] is cooled by
glycol and has a heat exchanger. If I am floating in salt water, there
is no fresh water involved anywhere.

You're right. I meant to say "raw (salt)" valve. It takes about 5
minutes at moderate power to bring the water recycling in the engine
loop up to to a temp that sounds the alarm.

One thing is certain, unless the pump is managing to circulate coolant
through the engine, it won't last anything like five minutes. The
difference between driving with a broken fan belt, and driving with no
coolant.

True, but I wasn't talking about that, just lack of raw cooling water.
If the fan belt breaks, we have a few other problems.

--
Jere Lull
Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD
Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

No, seriosly, I think you are misunderestimating the distances and
thus complaining about non-issues.

Here is the test:

If another boater cuts you off close enough to fling some old fish
heads on his bridge, you have the right to do so. Just do it. Fish
heads, anything biodegradable, in case you miss. You will soon see if
they really are that close, it is hard to aim fish heads well over
more than 50 feet, I would guess. Ask me how I know.

Also, if you really were going just half a knot, the kayaker could
have moved out of your way easily. They are capable of accelerating to
about five knots in not time. And trust me, he would have, if you had
been really close. He just didn't think you were too close.

Btw., having no engine does not put you in 'unable to maneuver '
status. It just makes you a sailboat, col-reg-wise, doesn't it?

So, what had happened with the engine? We are all curious to hear.

Captain Jack Sparrow




On Nov 6, 11:44 am, "Capt. JG" wrote:
Taught a class this last weekend through one of the local schools. Saturday,
wind was light, so we practiced a lot of motoring skills aboard a newer
Hunter 32. Typically, the second day is devoted to sailing skills, such as
COBs and the usual tacking/jibing/points of sail, etc.

The wind picked up a bit in mid-afternoon, and we got some good COB
practice. Ate lunch under sail, and since anchoring knowledge is part of the
class, I decided to get us over to the Cone Rock area for a bit of practice.
Sailing there, a big cabin cruiser came up on us from the starboard stern...
must have been going 10+ kts, with a huge wake.

At first I thought he was going to cut us off to the point of us having to
take evasive action, but he weaved around enough to clear our side and bow.
The whole time we're waving and gesturing to slow down, since it was going
to be close and the wake was going to be huge. He kept right on going, and
as he got abeam, had the middle finger flying. What a jerk. Fortunately, we
were all holding on at this point, so no one was hurt or thrown off the
boat, which could easily have been the case.

Ok, so we proceeded to sail, then got to a good spot to turn on the engine
and drop the sails. Did this, motored about 200 meters, when the cooling
water hi temp alarm came on. I was able to kill the engine within 20 seconds
or so. A couple of the students were still up by the mast, so the main came
back up without a hitch. As soon as they scrambled back to the cockpit, I
popped the furling line for the jib, it came out, and we got moving again.

We did a visual inspection of the engine... double checked that the raw
water intake was open, oil level, fresh water level, feel for excessive
heat, sniff test for something burning, belts are on and not slipping. I had
someone turn the engine back on and I put my hand over the raw water exhaust
(it's under the transom, and you can be fooled by air bubbling vs. water
exiting). Water was definitely coming out, the water was luke warm at most,
but the alarm was on. Also, I noticed oil on the absorbant pad underneath
the engine... not a lot, but there was none in the morning... something
happened. Well, we were sailing, so it didn't matter right now, and I shut
down the engine after about a minute. Even though the water was only warm at
most, I was starting to see steam coming out of the exhaust. I started
thinking it might be a blown head gasket, one reason was it seemed overly
rough at low idle.

Since we were headed back to base anyway at this point, I figured I'd give
them a ring (cell phone had great reception) and let the base manager know
what was up and ask if he had any suggestions. He had none beyond what I'd
already done, so I told him we'd be back in about an hour at most, and I
would call him again if I thought we couldn't make it back to either the
slip or an end tie near the base. I think he appreciated me not hailing them
on the VHF... dirty laundry in public and all that.

So, we're sailing down the Sausalito channel. Toward the end of the channel,
where we need to go, it gets rather narrow, and it's quite easy to run
aground if you get outside the markers. As we get to a particularly narrow
spot (still under sail, which was good practice for the students), three
kayakers come out of a marina and are slowly paddling ahead of us on our
port side just outside the channel. I can see that they're totally unaware
of us and edging closer and closer to the channel, obviously going to head
across it.

When I got within earshot, I called over to them, saying, please stay out of
the channel... we're having engine trouble and can't maneauver. One asked me
where he should be, and I said, anywhere except in front of me is fine.
Another one stopped paddling, waiting for us to go by. The third guy kept
going! Slowly! Unbelievable. So, I said, Sir, if you keep going, we're going
to run you over. Please get out of the channel. He said ok, but kept going!
So, I turned on the engine again, figuring I could use it for 30 seconds
without damage, since it had been off for over 30 minutes. We got around
him, barely. I thanked him for getting out of our way, and I think he
thought I was serious. Jeez... Then, I turned off the engine.

Well, the final leg was sailing down the fairway, very light wind at this
point... under 2kts, but we made a beautiful docking, and all ended well.

--
"j" ganz

wrote in message
oups.com...

No, seriosly, I think you are misunderestimating the distances and
thus complaining about non-issues.

No seriously, I didn't. I have a fair amount of experience in the North Bay
of SF especially, and wakes are not a big deal.


Here is the test:

If another boater cuts you off close enough to fling some old fish
heads on his bridge, you have the right to do so. Just do it. Fish
heads, anything biodegradable, in case you miss. You will soon see if
they really are that close, it is hard to aim fish heads well over
more than 50 feet, I would guess. Ask me how I know.

Gross. No thanks.

Also, if you really were going just half a knot, the kayaker could
have moved out of your way easily. They are capable of accelerating to
about five knots in not time. And trust me, he would have, if you had
been really close. He just didn't think you were too close.

You're right in that he didn't think, but we were too close. As I said
previously, it was my impression after thinking about it that he couldn't
control his kayak. I think he was a total novice.

Btw., having no engine does not put you in 'unable to maneuver '
status. It just makes you a sailboat, col-reg-wise, doesn't it?

I did have an engine, and I told him that we were having engine trouble. So,
I'm not sure what you're asking.

So, what had happened with the engine? We are all curious to hear.

I'm waiting to hear...

Captain Jack Sparrow

Right.


On Nov 6, 11:44 am, "Capt. JG" wrote:
Taught a class this last weekend through one of the local schools.
Saturday,
wind was light, so we practiced a lot of motoring skills aboard a newer
Hunter 32. Typically, the second day is devoted to sailing skills, such
as
COBs and the usual tacking/jibing/points of sail, etc.

The wind picked up a bit in mid-afternoon, and we got some good COB
practice. Ate lunch under sail, and since anchoring knowledge is part of
the
class, I decided to get us over to the Cone Rock area for a bit of
practice.
Sailing there, a big cabin cruiser came up on us from the starboard
stern...
must have been going 10+ kts, with a huge wake.

At first I thought he was going to cut us off to the point of us having
to
take evasive action, but he weaved around enough to clear our side and
bow.
The whole time we're waving and gesturing to slow down, since it was
going
to be close and the wake was going to be huge. He kept right on going,
and
as he got abeam, had the middle finger flying. What a jerk. Fortunately,
we
were all holding on at this point, so no one was hurt or thrown off the
boat, which could easily have been the case.

Ok, so we proceeded to sail, then got to a good spot to turn on the
engine
and drop the sails. Did this, motored about 200 meters, when the cooling
water hi temp alarm came on. I was able to kill the engine within 20
seconds
or so. A couple of the students were still up by the mast, so the main
came
back up without a hitch. As soon as they scrambled back to the cockpit, I
popped the furling line for the jib, it came out, and we got moving
again.

We did a visual inspection of the engine... double checked that the raw
water intake was open, oil level, fresh water level, feel for excessive
heat, sniff test for something burning, belts are on and not slipping. I
had
someone turn the engine back on and I put my hand over the raw water
exhaust
(it's under the transom, and you can be fooled by air bubbling vs. water
exiting). Water was definitely coming out, the water was luke warm at
most,
but the alarm was on. Also, I noticed oil on the absorbant pad underneath
the engine... not a lot, but there was none in the morning... something
happened. Well, we were sailing, so it didn't matter right now, and I
shut
down the engine after about a minute. Even though the water was only warm
at
most, I was starting to see steam coming out of the exhaust. I started
thinking it might be a blown head gasket, one reason was it seemed overly
rough at low idle.

Since we were headed back to base anyway at this point, I figured I'd
give
them a ring (cell phone had great reception) and let the base manager
know
what was up and ask if he had any suggestions. He had none beyond what
I'd
already done, so I told him we'd be back in about an hour at most, and I
would call him again if I thought we couldn't make it back to either the
slip or an end tie near the base. I think he appreciated me not hailing
them
on the VHF... dirty laundry in public and all that.

So, we're sailing down the Sausalito channel. Toward the end of the
channel,
where we need to go, it gets rather narrow, and it's quite easy to run
aground if you get outside the markers. As we get to a particularly
narrow
spot (still under sail, which was good practice for the students), three
kayakers come out of a marina and are slowly paddling ahead of us on our
port side just outside the channel. I can see that they're totally
unaware
of us and edging closer and closer to the channel, obviously going to
head
across it.

When I got within earshot, I called over to them, saying, please stay out
of
the channel... we're having engine trouble and can't maneauver. One asked
me
where he should be, and I said, anywhere except in front of me is fine.
Another one stopped paddling, waiting for us to go by. The third guy kept
going! Slowly! Unbelievable. So, I said, Sir, if you keep going, we're
going
to run you over. Please get out of the channel. He said ok, but kept
going!
So, I turned on the engine again, figuring I could use it for 30 seconds
without damage, since it had been off for over 30 minutes. We got around
him, barely. I thanked him for getting out of our way, and I think he
thought I was serious. Jeez... Then, I turned off the engine.

Well, the final leg was sailing down the fairway, very light wind at this
point... under 2kts, but we made a beautiful docking, and all ended well.

--
"j" ganz





--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com