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#1
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Well, wadda you know?
On Aug 17, 5:26 am, "Roger Long" wrote:
"Joe" wrote Thats crazy..Got a picture? Whats the structure in the way? The structure is the fiberglass molding that makes up the entire galley structure. It's not like some worker put some trim on in the wrong place or an owner made some modifications. The reason I would be leery about an extension on the handle is that the mechanism that prevents the handle turning when the engine starts and breaking your arm is pretty minimalist. (Looks like the Lister is similar). A little extra friction in the shaft both would transmit torque and keep the shaft from sliding forward enough for the lugs to disengage. I'm sure the force of shattering your forearm would loosen it up enough so that the handle didn't go spinning around but it would be small comfort at that point. The combination of extra handle weight and turning force acting over the longer lever arm would considerably increase the friction on the shaft. I think I'm going to clean up the whole rig by taking the mechanism off and going the emergency battery route. You sound like a big guy and, if your 12 hp is that hard to get going, it's another vote that starting this 20 hp engine cold would be unlikely. After thinking about it, it may not be as hard to start your 20 as my 12. Reason is I have to spin a 200 pound armature with the crankshaft. Usually starts first time, but in a hot engine room your blinded by sweat in your eyes, and you damn sure want enough speed to compress and not back kick, as the "lug" stays engaged. Good thing is once it starts I have full air exchange in the engine room ever 30 seconds as the engine is air cooled. Problem with an extra battery bank is you also need to buy and carry a spare starter, or rebuild parts to be truely redundant. Joe I've got pictures but they are on the office computer and I won't be there for a few days. -- Roger Long |
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#2
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Well, wadda you know?
On Thu, 16 Aug 2007 19:13:57 -0400, "Roger Long"
wrote: I now have a conundrum. I can spend more money to have the handle cut apart and an extension welded in. The leverage of the cranking force working over the longer length makes proper functioning questionable unless some structure with a bearing is provided. This is not uncommon. Since the most frequent "failure to start" scenario is dead batteries I often recommend that folks carry a fully charged gel cell battery totally disconnected from everything, and a set of jumper cables. Gel cell batteries have a very low self discharge rate, and by storing it totally disconnected you have very good assurance that it will be there when you need it. It's a lot easier than hand cranking also. |
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#3
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Well, wadda you know?
"Roger Long" wrote in
: It's a perfect lesson of the test-everything-and-assume-nothing principle. Roger, have you ever had her emergency tiller hooked up and cruised around with it? Lionheart, an Amel Sharki 41 ketch, has a hole in the aft cabin overhead and a beautifully-made mahogany tiller attachment to the rudder post that fits through that hole so you can steer her from standing on the aft cabin with the equally-beautifully-made mahogany tiller handle. You never know when her triple redundant electromechanical B&G Pilot or massively cabled steering wheel are going to fail....(c; "Real Sailors", of course, will leave the tiller handle in place and just remove the wheel and autopilot....(c; |
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#4
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Well, wadda you know?
"Larry" wrote Roger, have you ever had her emergency tiller hooked up and cruised around with it? No, but there is no question it would be a bear. I have fitted it at the dock so I know there are no clearance problems. However, I now have the vane gear for back up. I can use it directly or pull on the control lines to move the rudder after cutting and tying off the ends. I would only need the tiller if the rudder quadrant came off but it is pretty massive on this installation. I'm inspired now though to try it. -- Roger Long |
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#5
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Well, wadda you know?
On Thu, 16 Aug 2007 19:13:57 -0400, "Roger Long"
wrote: I went back down to the boat for something I forgot and decided I wanted to play around a little more. I've been telling myself since I got the boat that I should try hand starting the diesel. Better to climb the learning curve at the dock than while drifting down towards a steep lee shore after some electrical system disaster. I also have the hand start ability factored into my battery management strategy. Thanks to this newsgroup, I know that hand starting a 20 hp, twin cylinder, diesel is near the edge of feasibility but doable. I pulled the big forged or cast iron starting handle out of its handy brackets next to the engine and put it in place. HUH!? The fiberglass structure of the engine compartment enclosure makes it impossible to turn the handle more than a quarter turn. Since hand starting requires getting it spinning rapidly with the cylinders decompressed and then using the inertia of the flywheel and engine to (hopefully) kick it into life as you continue to assist with the crank, there is no way this could begin to work. I can categorically say that no one has ever hand started one of these boats unless they were originally delivered with a special handle that the PO perhaps replaced with the stock item (judging by the paint) not realizing that it couldn't possibly start the engine. This design defect has persisted through multiple models of a 1980 boat without ever coming to the notice of the builders or being noted on the owner's group web site. This is the most common engine installed in the class. It's a perfect lesson of the test-everything-and-assume-nothing principle. I now have a conundrum. I can spend more money to have the handle cut apart and an extension welded in. The leverage of the cranking force working over the longer length makes proper functioning questionable unless some structure with a bearing is provided. I just spent a couple hundred dollars on insurance in the form of chain so I'm not sure a starting handle for an engine that can just barely be hand started is the wisest next expenditure. I may just remove all of the hand start apparatus, which is pretty extensive and in the way on this particular model, and join the ranks of larger boat owners who live with the fact that their engines are not going to start without a functioning battery and electrical system. Hey! Isn't the Roger Long who designs boats? Now you know how the rest of us feel when we discover that to save space, make the hull a better shape, or some other trivial reason you can't get THAT nut off until you remove THIS thing over here :-) Bruce in Bangkok (brucepaigeATgmailDOTcom) |
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#6
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Well, wadda you know?
wrote:
Hey! Isn't the Roger Long who designs boats? Now you know how the rest of us feel when we discover that to save space, make the hull a better shape, or some other trivial reason you can't get THAT nut off until you remove THIS thing over here :-) Bruce in Bangkok (brucepaigeATgmailDOTcom) chuckle yep! but that's usually the fault of owners who want everything including the kitchen sink in a 30' boat but won't accept the loss of accommodation space to a proper engineroom. Or of marketing types ditto. Cheers, Michael Porter Michael Porter Marine Design mporter at mp-marine dot com www.mp-marine.com -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |
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#7
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Well, wadda you know?
"Michael Porter" wrote in message
... wrote: Hey! Isn't the Roger Long who designs boats? Now you know how the rest of us feel when we discover that to save space, make the hull a better shape, or some other trivial reason you can't get THAT nut off until you remove THIS thing over here :-) Bruce in Bangkok (brucepaigeATgmailDOTcom) chuckle yep! but that's usually the fault of owners who want everything including the kitchen sink in a 30' boat but won't accept the loss of accommodation space to a proper engineroom. Or of marketing types ditto. I knew of a beautiful Cape Dory 36 that was bought by a man that had a Swan 40 something that he couldn't handle, but wanted all of the amenities of the larger boat. The first thing he did was hire a marine carpenter to redo the interior and then added a Balmar genset which went under the cockpit aft of the engine. After that she sat about 2 inches down at the stern and the generator which had a one cylinder something never ran right and when it did it was so noisy that they couldn't stay below. Now for the fun part, to get to the stuffing gland or the steering quadrant, you had to unhook the generator and slide it out onto the quarter berth and move it aft so you could get into that space. As much as I can remember this boat was very seldom sailed and just motored from marina to marina. Leanne |
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#8
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Well, wadda you know?
On Fri, 17 Aug 2007 10:22:24 -0400, "Leanne" wrote:
"Michael Porter" wrote in message .. . wrote: Hey! Isn't the Roger Long who designs boats? Now you know how the rest of us feel when we discover that to save space, make the hull a better shape, or some other trivial reason you can't get THAT nut off until you remove THIS thing over here :-) Bruce in Bangkok (brucepaigeATgmailDOTcom) chuckle yep! but that's usually the fault of owners who want everything including the kitchen sink in a 30' boat but won't accept the loss of accommodation space to a proper engineroom. Or of marketing types ditto. I knew of a beautiful Cape Dory 36 that was bought by a man that had a Swan 40 something that he couldn't handle, but wanted all of the amenities of the larger boat. The first thing he did was hire a marine carpenter to redo the interior and then added a Balmar genset which went under the cockpit aft of the engine. After that she sat about 2 inches down at the stern and the generator which had a one cylinder something never ran right and when it did it was so noisy that they couldn't stay below. Now for the fun part, to get to the stuffing gland or the steering quadrant, you had to unhook the generator and slide it out onto the quarter berth and move it aft so you could get into that space. As much as I can remember this boat was very seldom sailed and just motored from marina to marina. Leanne Poor design. Should have either used a smaller gen-set or mounted it under the forward berth =:-) Bruce in Bangkok (brucepaigeATgmailDOTcom) |
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#9
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Well, wadda you know?
On Fri, 17 Aug 2007 09:26:10 -0400, Michael Porter
wrote: wrote: Hey! Isn't the Roger Long who designs boats? Now you know how the rest of us feel when we discover that to save space, make the hull a better shape, or some other trivial reason you can't get THAT nut off until you remove THIS thing over here :-) Bruce in Bangkok (brucepaigeATgmailDOTcom) chuckle yep! but that's usually the fault of owners who want everything including the kitchen sink in a 30' boat but won't accept the loss of accommodation space to a proper engineroom. Or of marketing types ditto. Cheers, Michael Porter Michael Porter Marine Design mporter at mp-marine dot com www.mp-marine.com Do you mean that 3 staterooms, en suite, is not standard in a 30 footer? And the lounge wouldn't normally seat 10 for a formal meal? And where will the crew's quarters be? My goodness, what are you people doing with all that computer help it should be simple. =:-) Bruce in Bangkok (brucepaigeATgmailDOTcom) |
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