"Larry" wrote

Roger, have you ever had her emergency tiller hooked up and cruised
around with it?


No, but there is no question it would be a bear. I have fitted it at the
dock so I know there are no clearance problems.

However, I now have the vane gear for back up. I can use it directly or
pull on the control lines to move the rudder after cutting and tying off the
ends. I would only need the tiller if the rudder quadrant came off but it
is pretty massive on this installation.

I'm inspired now though to try it.

--
Roger Long

On Thu, 16 Aug 2007 18:12:20 -0700, Bil wrote:

On Aug 17, 7:13 am, "Roger Long" wrote:

I now have a conundrum. I can spend more money to have the handle cut apart
and an extension welded in. The leverage of the cranking force working over
the longer length makes proper functioning questionable unless some
structure with a bearing is provided.

Or you could add a spring starter.

Browse http://www.springstarter.com/

Or to be even more nautical you could add one of those hydraulic
starters where you madly pump up hydraulic pressure until just before
the heart attack and then open the valve.......and it almost catches.

Nah, do what the big boys do and install a starting battery. I assume
that you have some sort of small portable generator for emergencies so
if everything goes to hell you can spend the afternoon fishing off the
stern while the Honda genny charges the starting battery enough to
kick over the main engine.

Rationalize that it probably wouldn't have started an anyway....


Bruce in Bangkok
(brucepaigeATgmailDOTcom)

wrote:


Hey! Isn't the Roger Long who designs boats?

Now you know how the rest of us feel when we discover that to save
space, make the hull a better shape, or some other trivial reason you
can't get THAT nut off until you remove THIS thing over here :-)





Bruce in Bangkok
(brucepaigeATgmailDOTcom)

chuckle yep!

but that's usually the fault of owners who want everything including
the kitchen sink in a 30' boat but won't accept the loss of
accommodation space to a proper engineroom. Or of marketing types
ditto.

Cheers,
Michael Porter
Michael Porter Marine Design
mporter at mp-marine dot com
www.mp-marine.com

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

"Michael Porter" wrote in message
...
wrote:


Hey! Isn't the Roger Long who designs boats?

Now you know how the rest of us feel when we discover that to save
space, make the hull a better shape, or some other trivial reason you
can't get THAT nut off until you remove THIS thing over here :-)





Bruce in Bangkok
(brucepaigeATgmailDOTcom)

chuckle yep!

but that's usually the fault of owners who want everything including
the kitchen sink in a 30' boat but won't accept the loss of
accommodation space to a proper engineroom. Or of marketing types
ditto.

I knew of a beautiful Cape Dory 36 that was bought by a man that had a Swan
40 something that he couldn't handle, but wanted all of the amenities of the
larger boat. The first thing he did was hire a marine carpenter to redo the
interior and then added a Balmar genset which went under the cockpit aft of
the engine. After that she sat about 2 inches down at the stern and the
generator which had a one cylinder something never ran right and when it did
it was so noisy that they couldn't stay below. Now for the fun part, to get
to the stuffing gland or the steering quadrant, you had to unhook the
generator and slide it out onto the quarter berth and move it aft so you
could get into that space. As much as I can remember this boat was very
seldom sailed and just motored from marina to marina.

Leanne

On Fri, 17 Aug 2007 06:26:57 -0400, "Roger Long"
wrote:

I think I'm going to clean up the whole rig by taking the mechanism off and
going the emergency battery route. You sound like a big guy and, if your 12
hp is that hard to get going, it's another vote that starting this 20 hp
engine cold would be unlikely.

I used to have a 2 cylinder Volvo diesel, about 12 or 13 hp, that
could be crank started. It did take a lot of effort though, and I was
a lot younger then. An emergenct battery is a good plan.

On Aug 17, 5:26 am, "Roger Long" wrote:
"Joe" wrote

Thats crazy..Got a picture? Whats the structure in the way?

The structure is the fiberglass molding that makes up the entire galley
structure. It's not like some worker put some trim on in the wrong place or
an owner made some modifications.

The reason I would be leery about an extension on the handle is that the
mechanism that prevents the handle turning when the engine starts and
breaking your arm is pretty minimalist. (Looks like the Lister is similar).
A little extra friction in the shaft both would transmit torque and keep the
shaft from sliding forward enough for the lugs to disengage. I'm sure the
force of shattering your forearm would loosen it up enough so that the
handle didn't go spinning around but it would be small comfort at that
point. The combination of extra handle weight and turning force acting over
the longer lever arm would considerably increase the friction on the shaft.

I think I'm going to clean up the whole rig by taking the mechanism off and
going the emergency battery route. You sound like a big guy and, if your 12
hp is that hard to get going, it's another vote that starting this 20 hp
engine cold would be unlikely.

After thinking about it, it may not be as hard to start your 20 as my
12. Reason is I have to spin a 200 pound armature with the crankshaft.
Usually starts first time, but in a hot engine room your blinded by
sweat in your eyes, and you damn sure want enough speed to compress
and not back kick, as the "lug" stays engaged. Good thing is once it
starts I have full air exchange in the engine room ever 30 seconds as
the engine is air cooled. Problem with an extra battery bank is you
also need to buy and carry a spare starter, or rebuild parts to be
truely redundant.

Joe


I've got pictures but they are on the office computer and I won't be there
for a few days.

--
Roger Long

On Fri, 17 Aug 2007 09:26:10 -0400, Michael Porter
wrote:

wrote:


Hey! Isn't the Roger Long who designs boats?

Now you know how the rest of us feel when we discover that to save
space, make the hull a better shape, or some other trivial reason you
can't get THAT nut off until you remove THIS thing over here :-)





Bruce in Bangkok
(brucepaigeATgmailDOTcom)

chuckle yep!

but that's usually the fault of owners who want everything including
the kitchen sink in a 30' boat but won't accept the loss of
accommodation space to a proper engineroom. Or of marketing types
ditto.

Cheers,
Michael Porter
Michael Porter Marine Design
mporter at mp-marine dot com
www.mp-marine.com


Do you mean that 3 staterooms, en suite, is not standard in a 30
footer? And the lounge wouldn't normally seat 10 for a formal meal?
And where will the crew's quarters be?
My goodness, what are you people doing with all that computer help it
should be simple. =:-)




Bruce in Bangkok
(brucepaigeATgmailDOTcom)

On Fri, 17 Aug 2007 10:22:24 -0400, "Leanne" wrote:

"Michael Porter" wrote in message
.. .
wrote:


Hey! Isn't the Roger Long who designs boats?

Now you know how the rest of us feel when we discover that to save
space, make the hull a better shape, or some other trivial reason you
can't get THAT nut off until you remove THIS thing over here :-)





Bruce in Bangkok
(brucepaigeATgmailDOTcom)

chuckle yep!

but that's usually the fault of owners who want everything including
the kitchen sink in a 30' boat but won't accept the loss of
accommodation space to a proper engineroom. Or of marketing types
ditto.

I knew of a beautiful Cape Dory 36 that was bought by a man that had a Swan
40 something that he couldn't handle, but wanted all of the amenities of the
larger boat. The first thing he did was hire a marine carpenter to redo the
interior and then added a Balmar genset which went under the cockpit aft of
the engine. After that she sat about 2 inches down at the stern and the
generator which had a one cylinder something never ran right and when it did
it was so noisy that they couldn't stay below. Now for the fun part, to get
to the stuffing gland or the steering quadrant, you had to unhook the
generator and slide it out onto the quarter berth and move it aft so you
could get into that space. As much as I can remember this boat was very
seldom sailed and just motored from marina to marina.

Leanne

Poor design. Should have either used a smaller gen-set or mounted it
under the forward berth =:-)




Bruce in Bangkok
(brucepaigeATgmailDOTcom)

On Aug 16, 8:12 pm, Bil wrote:
On Aug 17, 7:13 am, "Roger Long" wrote:

I now have a conundrum. I can spend more money to have the handle cut apart
and an extension welded in. The leverage of the cranking force working over
the longer length makes proper functioning questionable unless some
structure with a bearing is provided.

Or you could add a spring starter.

Browsehttp://www.springstarter.com/

That's pretty cool Bil.

Joe

wrote:

On Fri, 17 Aug 2007 09:26:10 -0400, Michael Porter
wrote:

wrote:


Hey! Isn't the Roger Long who designs boats?

Now you know how the rest of us feel when we discover that to save
space, make the hull a better shape, or some other trivial reason you
can't get THAT nut off until you remove THIS thing over here :-)





Bruce in Bangkok
(brucepaigeATgmailDOTcom)

chuckle yep!

but that's usually the fault of owners who want everything including
the kitchen sink in a 30' boat but won't accept the loss of
accommodation space to a proper engineroom. Or of marketing types
ditto.

Cheers,
Michael Porter
Michael Porter Marine Design
mporter at mp-marine dot com
www.mp-marine.com


Do you mean that 3 staterooms, en suite, is not standard in a 30
footer? And the lounge wouldn't normally seat 10 for a formal meal?
And where will the crew's quarters be?
My goodness, what are you people doing with all that computer help it
should be simple. =:-)




Bruce in Bangkok
(brucepaigeATgmailDOTcom)

Yeah, well . . . most designers are a little brain-damaged, I guess.
why else would we be in a field where you have to do a lot of work and
make very little money?

I have spent far too much time upside-down with my head in the bilges
of gold-platers trying to fix something I could deal with in 20 min if
I had it on a bench in front of me to have a very good opinion of
production "yachts", especially the fancy ones.

No doubt a pernicious conspiracy between marketing people and owners
with the express purpose of frustrating designers and boatyard
workers.

Cheers,
Michael Porter
Michael Porter Marine Design
mporter at mp-marine dot com
www.mp-marine.com

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com