On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 15:54:00 -0800, "Lloyd Sumpter"
wrote:



Thanks for the input!

I didn't mean an either/or scenario - it's more like: if I have
GPS/sounder/charts, what extra does radar give me? And of course, it DOES show
vessels, etc., but I'm thinking that's mainly a consideration in fog, and I'm
wondering if I would venture out even if I HAD radar (after all, what if the
radar quits?).

So is radar worth it for the 1 day a year I MIGHT venture out in fog?

Or, to put it differently, what ELSE is radar good for? Can I use it to
determine if a freighter 10 miles away is on a collision course with me? Do
others normally run with radar on, even if it's clear? Why?


That is actually a different question, because a radar has value for
measurement even when you can see.

Example 1: If you need to anchor in a confined space, and the
obstructions all show on the radar, you can maximize your scope by
finding the center of a range circle that just kisses the three
nearest obstructions.

2) Your chart shows you the safe distance from a headland. You put a
circle of that radius on the screen. and steer so it doesn't
intersect.

3) When you see a ship, you can put a bearing line on it and a range
circle. If the ship comes inside the circle without moving off the
bearing line you need to take action.

In general, you will find that an accurate plan view of the
surroundings is a valuable supplement to eyeballs.



Rodney Myrvaagnes NYC J36 Gjo/a


"Be careful. The toe you stepped on yesterday may be connected to the ass you have to kiss today." --Former mayor Ciancia

On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 23:44:10 +0000, Rodney Myrvaagnes wrote:

On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 15:54:00 -0800, "Lloyd Sumpter" wrote:



Thanks for the input!

I didn't mean an either/or scenario - it's more like: if I have
GPS/sounder/charts, what extra does radar give me? And of course, it DOES show
vessels, etc., but I'm thinking that's mainly a consideration in fog, and I'm
wondering if I would venture out even if I HAD radar (after all, what if the
radar quits?).

So is radar worth it for the 1 day a year I MIGHT venture out in fog?

Or, to put it differently, what ELSE is radar good for? Can I use it to
determine if a freighter 10 miles away is on a collision course with me? Do
others normally run with radar on, even if it's clear? Why?


That is actually a different question, because a radar has value for measurement
even when you can see.

Example 1: If you need to anchor in a confined space, and the obstructions all
show on the radar, you can maximize your scope by finding the center of a range
circle that just kisses the three nearest obstructions.

2) Your chart shows you the safe distance from a headland. You put a circle of
that radius on the screen. and steer so it doesn't intersect.

3) When you see a ship, you can put a bearing line on it and a range circle. If
the ship comes inside the circle without moving off the bearing line you need to
take action.

In general, you will find that an accurate plan view of the surroundings is a
valuable supplement to eyeballs.



All Great Information - thanks everyone!

A couple of points I see that I hadn't seen before. One is night: I do
occasionally sail at night, and it would be great to see the boats/ships rather
than squinting at little lights (esp if they're towing things, which is very
popular here on the coast. Anybody know if radar could pick up a log-boom?)

Also, measuring distance from objects. Good point. Last time I was out, I needed
to clear some rocks before making my turn - GPS is OK for that, but radar would
have made it easier.

And the point about practice I already thought about: If I'm only using it a few
times a year, thick fog is NOT the place to figure out how it works!

Final question: if the fog was thick (vis. maybe 100 ft) and you had radar (and
GPS, etc) would you go out?

Lloyd Sumpter
"Far Cove" Catalina 36

On Mon, 24 Nov 2003 06:51:32 -0800, "Lloyd Sumpter"
wrote (with possible editing):

....snip

Final question: if the fog was thick (vis. maybe 100 ft) and you had radar (and
GPS, etc) would you go out?

I'm drawing on experience from more than 30 years ago, when my boat (a
38' Hubert Johnson m/v) had loran and radar only, GPS wasn't yet
around: No, I wouldn't unless it was some kind of emergency and then
I'd be damn careful and proceed slowly. Why look for trouble?
--

Larry
Email to rapp at lmr dot com

On Mon, 24 Nov 2003 06:51:32 -0800, "Lloyd Sumpter"
wrote (with possible editing):

....snip

Final question: if the fog was thick (vis. maybe 100 ft) and you had radar (and
GPS, etc) would you go out?

I'm drawing on experience from more than 30 years ago, when my boat (a
38' Hubert Johnson m/v) had loran and radar only, GPS wasn't yet
around: No, I wouldn't unless it was some kind of emergency and then
I'd be damn careful and proceed slowly. Why look for trouble?
--

Larry
Email to rapp at lmr dot com

"Lloyd Sumpter" wrote in message
Final question: if the fog was thick (vis. maybe 100 ft) and you had radar
(and
GPS, etc) would you go out?


In New England, especially Down East, that's not a good question. Since fog is
dependent on the water temperature, its quite common for harbors to be clear,
while the fog lurks just off shore, waiting to be brought in by the tide.
Casting off means accepting a fair chance of running into thick stuff.

The first time I took my wife to Maine we got socked in at Jewell Island (the
outer island of Casco Bay) in fog so thick we only got occasional glimpses of
the boat anchored next in front of us for four days. Although we had radar, I
had never used it and didn't think it prudent to learn there. For a day or two
it was romantic, then my wife started complaining that she didn't want to spend
the entire vacation there when LL Bean was only 6 miles away. We discovered,
when we got up the nerve to poke out a bit, the we were actually on the inner
edge of a bank, and the fog had never made it to the inner parts of Casco Bay.
After that, we learned how to have faith in the radar.

So the answer is, while we might decide to wait for a morning fog to burn off,
we won't be held hostage by it.


--
-jeff www.sv-loki.com
If you can't say something nice, say something surrealistic. -Zippy

"Lloyd Sumpter" wrote in message
Final question: if the fog was thick (vis. maybe 100 ft) and you had radar
(and
GPS, etc) would you go out?


In New England, especially Down East, that's not a good question. Since fog is
dependent on the water temperature, its quite common for harbors to be clear,
while the fog lurks just off shore, waiting to be brought in by the tide.
Casting off means accepting a fair chance of running into thick stuff.

The first time I took my wife to Maine we got socked in at Jewell Island (the
outer island of Casco Bay) in fog so thick we only got occasional glimpses of
the boat anchored next in front of us for four days. Although we had radar, I
had never used it and didn't think it prudent to learn there. For a day or two
it was romantic, then my wife started complaining that she didn't want to spend
the entire vacation there when LL Bean was only 6 miles away. We discovered,
when we got up the nerve to poke out a bit, the we were actually on the inner
edge of a bank, and the fog had never made it to the inner parts of Casco Bay.
After that, we learned how to have faith in the radar.

So the answer is, while we might decide to wait for a morning fog to burn off,
we won't be held hostage by it.


--
-jeff www.sv-loki.com
If you can't say something nice, say something surrealistic. -Zippy

On Mon, 24 Nov 2003 06:51:32 -0800, "Lloyd Sumpter"
wrote:


Final question: if the fog was thick (vis. maybe 100 ft) and you had radar (and
GPS, etc) would you go out?


Absolutely. I have done so many times, when I wanted to be somewhere
else for subsequent cruising. Fog doesn't necessarily last all day,
and it may roll in during the day.





Rodney Myrvaagnes NYC J36 Gjo/a


"Be careful. The toe you stepped on yesterday may be connected to the ass you have to kiss today." --Former mayor Ciancia

On Mon, 24 Nov 2003 06:51:32 -0800, "Lloyd Sumpter"
wrote:


Final question: if the fog was thick (vis. maybe 100 ft) and you had radar (and
GPS, etc) would you go out?


Absolutely. I have done so many times, when I wanted to be somewhere
else for subsequent cruising. Fog doesn't necessarily last all day,
and it may roll in during the day.





Rodney Myrvaagnes NYC J36 Gjo/a


"Be careful. The toe you stepped on yesterday may be connected to the ass you have to kiss today." --Former mayor Ciancia

On Mon, 24 Nov 2003 06:51:32 -0800, "Lloyd Sumpter"
wrote:


Final question: if the fog was thick (vis. maybe 100 ft) and you had radar (and
GPS, etc) would you go out?
If I thought there was clearer weather off shore, or at my
destination, or if I knew the waters and needed nav practice (like
shooting sun sights up through a hole in the fog!), sure I would. If
the fog is close to shore and you see 90% of your city/town rising out
of a solid bank, it's well worth that first mile of damp sailing to
get offshore a bit and look back.

Finally, particularly in summer, fog burns off. If you leave at 8 A.M.
and the fog's gone by 10:30 A.M., you are already well into your day's
cruising, and you'll have tons of searoom over the folks who waited
"until it clears up".

R.

On Mon, 24 Nov 2003 06:51:32 -0800, "Lloyd Sumpter"
wrote:


Final question: if the fog was thick (vis. maybe 100 ft) and you had radar (and
GPS, etc) would you go out?
If I thought there was clearer weather off shore, or at my
destination, or if I knew the waters and needed nav practice (like
shooting sun sights up through a hole in the fog!), sure I would. If
the fog is close to shore and you see 90% of your city/town rising out
of a solid bank, it's well worth that first mile of damp sailing to
get offshore a bit and look back.

Finally, particularly in summer, fog burns off. If you leave at 8 A.M.
and the fog's gone by 10:30 A.M., you are already well into your day's
cruising, and you'll have tons of searoom over the folks who waited
"until it clears up".

R.