Radar vs GPS/Sounder
 

Hi,

Thinking of getting radar for Far Cove, mainly for this planned trip to WCVI,
which has lots of fog.

Now, I've survived 20+ years of sailing Georgia Strait, etc. without radar.
If it's really foggy, I just stay put. If I venture out, I use several nav aids
including GPS to determine my position, blow my horn and listen.

I'm thinking that, even WITH radar, I wouldn't venture out in unfamiliar
waters in dense fog. And if I was out and the fog rolled in on me, I would think
that GPS, sounder and a good chart would be better to find that anchorage than
radar, assuming I could see at least 100 ft or so.

Comments?

Also, if I mount the radome on a post at the stern like most seem to, doesn't
the mast and sail interfere with it looking forward?

Lloyd Sumpter
"Far Cove" Catalina 36

Radar vs GPS/Sounder
 

On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 09:07:50 -0800, "Lloyd Sumpter"
wrote:

Hi,

Thinking of getting radar for Far Cove, mainly for this planned trip to WCVI,
which has lots of fog.

Now, I've survived 20+ years of sailing Georgia Strait, etc. without radar.
If it's really foggy, I just stay put. If I venture out, I use several nav aids
including GPS to determine my position, blow my horn and listen.

I'm thinking that, even WITH radar, I wouldn't venture out in unfamiliar
waters in dense fog. And if I was out and the fog rolled in on me, I would think
that GPS, sounder and a good chart would be better to find that anchorage than
radar, assuming I could see at least 100 ft or so.

Comments?

I agree that a GPS, sounder and good charts are necessary. But given
a choice between a chart plotter and radar, I would go with radar.
The major reason is that radar will provide an indication of what is
around me, mainly other vessels. In Juan de Fuca, that is a big
consideration.

Once you spend some time with radar you can interpret the screen quite
easily. This would permit you to find the anchorage. Additionally,
the racon buoys permit an great radar fix.


Also, if I mount the radome on a post at the stern like most seem to, doesn't
the mast and sail interfere with it looking forward?

Not in my experience with numerous charter boats on which I instruct.
One issue with a radar post comes from heeling. You need a wide
signal.

Radar does consume a lot of power.

Jack

__________________________________________________
Jack Dale
Swiftsure Sailing Academy
Director/ISPA and CYA Instructor
http://www.swiftsuresailing.com
Phone: 1 (877) 470-SAIL (toll free)
__________________________________________________

Radar vs GPS/Sounder
 

On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 09:07:50 -0800, "Lloyd Sumpter"
wrote:

Hi,

Thinking of getting radar for Far Cove, mainly for this planned trip to WCVI,
which has lots of fog.

Now, I've survived 20+ years of sailing Georgia Strait, etc. without radar.
If it's really foggy, I just stay put. If I venture out, I use several nav aids
including GPS to determine my position, blow my horn and listen.

I'm thinking that, even WITH radar, I wouldn't venture out in unfamiliar
waters in dense fog. And if I was out and the fog rolled in on me, I would think
that GPS, sounder and a good chart would be better to find that anchorage than
radar, assuming I could see at least 100 ft or so.

Comments?

I agree that a GPS, sounder and good charts are necessary. But given
a choice between a chart plotter and radar, I would go with radar.
The major reason is that radar will provide an indication of what is
around me, mainly other vessels. In Juan de Fuca, that is a big
consideration.

Once you spend some time with radar you can interpret the screen quite
easily. This would permit you to find the anchorage. Additionally,
the racon buoys permit an great radar fix.


Also, if I mount the radome on a post at the stern like most seem to, doesn't
the mast and sail interfere with it looking forward?

Not in my experience with numerous charter boats on which I instruct.
One issue with a radar post comes from heeling. You need a wide
signal.

Radar does consume a lot of power.

Jack

__________________________________________________
Jack Dale
Swiftsure Sailing Academy
Director/ISPA and CYA Instructor
http://www.swiftsuresailing.com
Phone: 1 (877) 470-SAIL (toll free)
__________________________________________________

Radar vs GPS/Sounder
 

I have trouble seeing this as "either/or." Charts are a necessity, regardless
of any other tools. A sounder is pretty high up in utility, and given that $150
buys a pretty good one its hard to see going without. A GPS nowadays is in the
same situation, and a minimal charting GPS (GPSMap 76, etc.) is so cheap it
should be considered a necessity for a distance cruiser, especially in fogbound
areas.

This leaves as "discretionary" a radar, and one of the high quality, big screen,
color chart plotters. The latter is a fun toy, but it doesn't provide any major
functionality over its little brother. A radar, however, does provide something
completely unique - a picture of what's really out there. If there's a chance
there's another vessel out there in the fog, a radar, even a small unit on a
pole, gives infinitely more information than nothing at all.



"Lloyd Sumpter" wrote in message
...
Hi,

Thinking of getting radar for Far Cove, mainly for this planned trip to
WCVI,
which has lots of fog.

Now, I've survived 20+ years of sailing Georgia Strait, etc. without radar.
If it's really foggy, I just stay put. If I venture out, I use several nav
aids
including GPS to determine my position, blow my horn and listen.

I'm thinking that, even WITH radar, I wouldn't venture out in unfamiliar
waters in dense fog. And if I was out and the fog rolled in on me, I would
think
that GPS, sounder and a good chart would be better to find that anchorage than
radar, assuming I could see at least 100 ft or so.

Comments?

Also, if I mount the radome on a post at the stern like most seem to,
doesn't
the mast and sail interfere with it looking forward?

Lloyd Sumpter
"Far Cove" Catalina 36

Radar vs GPS/Sounder
 

I have trouble seeing this as "either/or." Charts are a necessity, regardless
of any other tools. A sounder is pretty high up in utility, and given that $150
buys a pretty good one its hard to see going without. A GPS nowadays is in the
same situation, and a minimal charting GPS (GPSMap 76, etc.) is so cheap it
should be considered a necessity for a distance cruiser, especially in fogbound
areas.

This leaves as "discretionary" a radar, and one of the high quality, big screen,
color chart plotters. The latter is a fun toy, but it doesn't provide any major
functionality over its little brother. A radar, however, does provide something
completely unique - a picture of what's really out there. If there's a chance
there's another vessel out there in the fog, a radar, even a small unit on a
pole, gives infinitely more information than nothing at all.



"Lloyd Sumpter" wrote in message
...
Hi,

Thinking of getting radar for Far Cove, mainly for this planned trip to
WCVI,
which has lots of fog.

Now, I've survived 20+ years of sailing Georgia Strait, etc. without radar.
If it's really foggy, I just stay put. If I venture out, I use several nav
aids
including GPS to determine my position, blow my horn and listen.

I'm thinking that, even WITH radar, I wouldn't venture out in unfamiliar
waters in dense fog. And if I was out and the fog rolled in on me, I would
think
that GPS, sounder and a good chart would be better to find that anchorage than
radar, assuming I could see at least 100 ft or so.

Comments?

Also, if I mount the radome on a post at the stern like most seem to,
doesn't
the mast and sail interfere with it looking forward?

Lloyd Sumpter
"Far Cove" Catalina 36

Radar vs GPS/Sounder
 

On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 09:07:50 -0800, "Lloyd Sumpter"
wrote:

Hi,

Thinking of getting radar for Far Cove, mainly for this planned trip to WCVI,
which has lots of fog.

Now, I've survived 20+ years of sailing Georgia Strait, etc. without radar.
If it's really foggy, I just stay put. If I venture out, I use several nav aids
including GPS to determine my position, blow my horn and listen.

I'm thinking that, even WITH radar, I wouldn't venture out in unfamiliar
waters in dense fog. And if I was out and the fog rolled in on me, I would think
that GPS, sounder and a good chart would be better to find that anchorage than
radar, assuming I could see at least 100 ft or so.

Comments?

Radar does show you if there are any other vessels nearby, which
charts and GPS do not. (I got radar for my Yamaha 30 after a trip
back from Center Bay in the fog - I felt and heard a ferry go by, but
couldn't see it at all!)


Also, if I mount the radome on a post at the stern like most seem to, doesn't
the mast and sail interfere with it looking forward?

I had a RADAR mast on the starboard quarter on my Yamaha 30. I don't
recall any significant blind spots, but did get some spurious echoes
off the port bow. I initially had a radar reflector on the backstay a
little above the radar - that arrangement gave some serious spurious
echoes, which went away when I moved the radar reflector to the port
spreader.

I didn't find any need to tilt the radar antenna to allow for heeling,
since there is generally little wind on foggy days, when you need the
radar. When sailing on clear days, with the radar on, I did
occasionally notice the windward shoreline disappear as the boat
heeled.


Lloyd Sumpter
"Far Cove" Catalina 36

--
Peter Bennett, VE7CEI
new newsgroup users info : http://vancouver-webpages.com/nnq
GPS and NMEA info: http://vancouver-webpages.com/peter
Vancouver Power Squadron: http://vancouver.powersquadron.ca

Radar vs GPS/Sounder
 

On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 09:07:50 -0800, "Lloyd Sumpter"
wrote:

Hi,

Thinking of getting radar for Far Cove, mainly for this planned trip to WCVI,
which has lots of fog.

Now, I've survived 20+ years of sailing Georgia Strait, etc. without radar.
If it's really foggy, I just stay put. If I venture out, I use several nav aids
including GPS to determine my position, blow my horn and listen.

I'm thinking that, even WITH radar, I wouldn't venture out in unfamiliar
waters in dense fog. And if I was out and the fog rolled in on me, I would think
that GPS, sounder and a good chart would be better to find that anchorage than
radar, assuming I could see at least 100 ft or so.

Comments?

Radar does show you if there are any other vessels nearby, which
charts and GPS do not. (I got radar for my Yamaha 30 after a trip
back from Center Bay in the fog - I felt and heard a ferry go by, but
couldn't see it at all!)


Also, if I mount the radome on a post at the stern like most seem to, doesn't
the mast and sail interfere with it looking forward?

I had a RADAR mast on the starboard quarter on my Yamaha 30. I don't
recall any significant blind spots, but did get some spurious echoes
off the port bow. I initially had a radar reflector on the backstay a
little above the radar - that arrangement gave some serious spurious
echoes, which went away when I moved the radar reflector to the port
spreader.

I didn't find any need to tilt the radar antenna to allow for heeling,
since there is generally little wind on foggy days, when you need the
radar. When sailing on clear days, with the radar on, I did
occasionally notice the windward shoreline disappear as the boat
heeled.


Lloyd Sumpter
"Far Cove" Catalina 36

--
Peter Bennett, VE7CEI
new newsgroup users info : http://vancouver-webpages.com/nnq
GPS and NMEA info: http://vancouver-webpages.com/peter
Vancouver Power Squadron: http://vancouver.powersquadron.ca

Radar vs GPS/Sounder
 

On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 09:07:50 -0800, "Lloyd Sumpter"
wrote:

Hi,

Thinking of getting radar for Far Cove, mainly for this planned trip to WCVI,
which has lots of fog.

Now, I've survived 20+ years of sailing Georgia Strait, etc. without radar.
If it's really foggy, I just stay put. If I venture out, I use several nav aids
including GPS to determine my position, blow my horn and listen.

I'm thinking that, even WITH radar, I wouldn't venture out in unfamiliar
waters in dense fog. And if I was out and the fog rolled in on me, I would think
that GPS, sounder and a good chart would be better to find that anchorage than
radar, assuming I could see at least 100 ft or so.

Comments?

I wouldn't be without any of those, whether I had radar or not. If
your boat is worth less than $5000, you might skip the radar.

I lived without radar for many years with Loran C and depth sounder,
Some charters I only had the depth sounder. But, having used them, I
don't want to do without GPS and radar.

Also, if I mount the radome on a post at the stern like most seem to, doesn't
the mast and sail interfere with it looking forward?

Not a problem.



Rodney Myrvaagnes NYC J36 Gjo/a


Capsizing under chute, and having the chute rise and fill without tangling, all while Mark and Sally are still behind you

Radar vs GPS/Sounder
 

On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 09:07:50 -0800, "Lloyd Sumpter"
wrote:

Hi,

Thinking of getting radar for Far Cove, mainly for this planned trip to WCVI,
which has lots of fog.

Now, I've survived 20+ years of sailing Georgia Strait, etc. without radar.
If it's really foggy, I just stay put. If I venture out, I use several nav aids
including GPS to determine my position, blow my horn and listen.

I'm thinking that, even WITH radar, I wouldn't venture out in unfamiliar
waters in dense fog. And if I was out and the fog rolled in on me, I would think
that GPS, sounder and a good chart would be better to find that anchorage than
radar, assuming I could see at least 100 ft or so.

Comments?

I wouldn't be without any of those, whether I had radar or not. If
your boat is worth less than $5000, you might skip the radar.

I lived without radar for many years with Loran C and depth sounder,
Some charters I only had the depth sounder. But, having used them, I
don't want to do without GPS and radar.

Also, if I mount the radome on a post at the stern like most seem to, doesn't
the mast and sail interfere with it looking forward?

Not a problem.



Rodney Myrvaagnes NYC J36 Gjo/a


Capsizing under chute, and having the chute rise and fill without tangling, all while Mark and Sally are still behind you

Radar vs GPS/Sounder
 

On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 17:48:11 +0000, Jack Dale wrote:

On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 09:07:50 -0800, "Lloyd Sumpter" wrote:

Hi,

Thinking of getting radar for Far Cove, mainly for this planned trip to
WCVI,
which has lots of fog.

Now, I've survived 20+ years of sailing Georgia Strait, etc. without radar.
If it's really foggy, I just stay put. If I venture out, I use several nav aids
including GPS to determine my position, blow my horn and listen.

I'm thinking that, even WITH radar, I wouldn't venture out in unfamiliar
waters in dense fog. And if I was out and the fog rolled in on me, I would
think that GPS, sounder and a good chart would be better to find that anchorage
than radar, assuming I could see at least 100 ft or so.

Comments?

I agree that a GPS, sounder and good charts are necessary. But given a choice
between a chart plotter and radar, I would go with radar. The major reason is
that radar will provide an indication of what is around me, mainly other
vessels. In Juan de Fuca, that is a big consideration.

Once you spend some time with radar you can interpret the screen quite easily.
This would permit you to find the anchorage. Additionally, the racon buoys
permit an great radar fix.


Thanks for the input!

I didn't mean an either/or scenario - it's more like: if I have
GPS/sounder/charts, what extra does radar give me? And of course, it DOES show
vessels, etc., but I'm thinking that's mainly a consideration in fog, and I'm
wondering if I would venture out even if I HAD radar (after all, what if the
radar quits?).

So is radar worth it for the 1 day a year I MIGHT venture out in fog?

Or, to put it differently, what ELSE is radar good for? Can I use it to
determine if a freighter 10 miles away is on a collision course with me? Do
others normally run with radar on, even if it's clear? Why?

Lloyd Sumpter
"Far Cove" Catalina 36