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Radar vs GPS/Sounder
Hi,
Thinking of getting radar for Far Cove, mainly for this planned trip to WCVI, which has lots of fog. Now, I've survived 20+ years of sailing Georgia Strait, etc. without radar. If it's really foggy, I just stay put. If I venture out, I use several nav aids including GPS to determine my position, blow my horn and listen. I'm thinking that, even WITH radar, I wouldn't venture out in unfamiliar waters in dense fog. And if I was out and the fog rolled in on me, I would think that GPS, sounder and a good chart would be better to find that anchorage than radar, assuming I could see at least 100 ft or so. Comments? Also, if I mount the radome on a post at the stern like most seem to, doesn't the mast and sail interfere with it looking forward? Lloyd Sumpter "Far Cove" Catalina 36 |
Radar vs GPS/Sounder
On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 09:07:50 -0800, "Lloyd Sumpter"
wrote: Hi, Thinking of getting radar for Far Cove, mainly for this planned trip to WCVI, which has lots of fog. Now, I've survived 20+ years of sailing Georgia Strait, etc. without radar. If it's really foggy, I just stay put. If I venture out, I use several nav aids including GPS to determine my position, blow my horn and listen. I'm thinking that, even WITH radar, I wouldn't venture out in unfamiliar waters in dense fog. And if I was out and the fog rolled in on me, I would think that GPS, sounder and a good chart would be better to find that anchorage than radar, assuming I could see at least 100 ft or so. Comments? I agree that a GPS, sounder and good charts are necessary. But given a choice between a chart plotter and radar, I would go with radar. The major reason is that radar will provide an indication of what is around me, mainly other vessels. In Juan de Fuca, that is a big consideration. Once you spend some time with radar you can interpret the screen quite easily. This would permit you to find the anchorage. Additionally, the racon buoys permit an great radar fix. Also, if I mount the radome on a post at the stern like most seem to, doesn't the mast and sail interfere with it looking forward? Not in my experience with numerous charter boats on which I instruct. One issue with a radar post comes from heeling. You need a wide signal. Radar does consume a lot of power. Jack __________________________________________________ Jack Dale Swiftsure Sailing Academy Director/ISPA and CYA Instructor http://www.swiftsuresailing.com Phone: 1 (877) 470-SAIL (toll free) __________________________________________________ |
Radar vs GPS/Sounder
On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 09:07:50 -0800, "Lloyd Sumpter"
wrote: Hi, Thinking of getting radar for Far Cove, mainly for this planned trip to WCVI, which has lots of fog. Now, I've survived 20+ years of sailing Georgia Strait, etc. without radar. If it's really foggy, I just stay put. If I venture out, I use several nav aids including GPS to determine my position, blow my horn and listen. I'm thinking that, even WITH radar, I wouldn't venture out in unfamiliar waters in dense fog. And if I was out and the fog rolled in on me, I would think that GPS, sounder and a good chart would be better to find that anchorage than radar, assuming I could see at least 100 ft or so. Comments? I agree that a GPS, sounder and good charts are necessary. But given a choice between a chart plotter and radar, I would go with radar. The major reason is that radar will provide an indication of what is around me, mainly other vessels. In Juan de Fuca, that is a big consideration. Once you spend some time with radar you can interpret the screen quite easily. This would permit you to find the anchorage. Additionally, the racon buoys permit an great radar fix. Also, if I mount the radome on a post at the stern like most seem to, doesn't the mast and sail interfere with it looking forward? Not in my experience with numerous charter boats on which I instruct. One issue with a radar post comes from heeling. You need a wide signal. Radar does consume a lot of power. Jack __________________________________________________ Jack Dale Swiftsure Sailing Academy Director/ISPA and CYA Instructor http://www.swiftsuresailing.com Phone: 1 (877) 470-SAIL (toll free) __________________________________________________ |
Radar vs GPS/Sounder
I have trouble seeing this as "either/or." Charts are a necessity, regardless
of any other tools. A sounder is pretty high up in utility, and given that $150 buys a pretty good one its hard to see going without. A GPS nowadays is in the same situation, and a minimal charting GPS (GPSMap 76, etc.) is so cheap it should be considered a necessity for a distance cruiser, especially in fogbound areas. This leaves as "discretionary" a radar, and one of the high quality, big screen, color chart plotters. The latter is a fun toy, but it doesn't provide any major functionality over its little brother. A radar, however, does provide something completely unique - a picture of what's really out there. If there's a chance there's another vessel out there in the fog, a radar, even a small unit on a pole, gives infinitely more information than nothing at all. "Lloyd Sumpter" wrote in message ... Hi, Thinking of getting radar for Far Cove, mainly for this planned trip to WCVI, which has lots of fog. Now, I've survived 20+ years of sailing Georgia Strait, etc. without radar. If it's really foggy, I just stay put. If I venture out, I use several nav aids including GPS to determine my position, blow my horn and listen. I'm thinking that, even WITH radar, I wouldn't venture out in unfamiliar waters in dense fog. And if I was out and the fog rolled in on me, I would think that GPS, sounder and a good chart would be better to find that anchorage than radar, assuming I could see at least 100 ft or so. Comments? Also, if I mount the radome on a post at the stern like most seem to, doesn't the mast and sail interfere with it looking forward? Lloyd Sumpter "Far Cove" Catalina 36 |
Radar vs GPS/Sounder
I have trouble seeing this as "either/or." Charts are a necessity, regardless
of any other tools. A sounder is pretty high up in utility, and given that $150 buys a pretty good one its hard to see going without. A GPS nowadays is in the same situation, and a minimal charting GPS (GPSMap 76, etc.) is so cheap it should be considered a necessity for a distance cruiser, especially in fogbound areas. This leaves as "discretionary" a radar, and one of the high quality, big screen, color chart plotters. The latter is a fun toy, but it doesn't provide any major functionality over its little brother. A radar, however, does provide something completely unique - a picture of what's really out there. If there's a chance there's another vessel out there in the fog, a radar, even a small unit on a pole, gives infinitely more information than nothing at all. "Lloyd Sumpter" wrote in message ... Hi, Thinking of getting radar for Far Cove, mainly for this planned trip to WCVI, which has lots of fog. Now, I've survived 20+ years of sailing Georgia Strait, etc. without radar. If it's really foggy, I just stay put. If I venture out, I use several nav aids including GPS to determine my position, blow my horn and listen. I'm thinking that, even WITH radar, I wouldn't venture out in unfamiliar waters in dense fog. And if I was out and the fog rolled in on me, I would think that GPS, sounder and a good chart would be better to find that anchorage than radar, assuming I could see at least 100 ft or so. Comments? Also, if I mount the radome on a post at the stern like most seem to, doesn't the mast and sail interfere with it looking forward? Lloyd Sumpter "Far Cove" Catalina 36 |
Radar vs GPS/Sounder
On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 09:07:50 -0800, "Lloyd Sumpter"
wrote: Hi, Thinking of getting radar for Far Cove, mainly for this planned trip to WCVI, which has lots of fog. Now, I've survived 20+ years of sailing Georgia Strait, etc. without radar. If it's really foggy, I just stay put. If I venture out, I use several nav aids including GPS to determine my position, blow my horn and listen. I'm thinking that, even WITH radar, I wouldn't venture out in unfamiliar waters in dense fog. And if I was out and the fog rolled in on me, I would think that GPS, sounder and a good chart would be better to find that anchorage than radar, assuming I could see at least 100 ft or so. Comments? Radar does show you if there are any other vessels nearby, which charts and GPS do not. (I got radar for my Yamaha 30 after a trip back from Center Bay in the fog - I felt and heard a ferry go by, but couldn't see it at all!) Also, if I mount the radome on a post at the stern like most seem to, doesn't the mast and sail interfere with it looking forward? I had a RADAR mast on the starboard quarter on my Yamaha 30. I don't recall any significant blind spots, but did get some spurious echoes off the port bow. I initially had a radar reflector on the backstay a little above the radar - that arrangement gave some serious spurious echoes, which went away when I moved the radar reflector to the port spreader. I didn't find any need to tilt the radar antenna to allow for heeling, since there is generally little wind on foggy days, when you need the radar. When sailing on clear days, with the radar on, I did occasionally notice the windward shoreline disappear as the boat heeled. Lloyd Sumpter "Far Cove" Catalina 36 -- Peter Bennett, VE7CEI new newsgroup users info : http://vancouver-webpages.com/nnq GPS and NMEA info: http://vancouver-webpages.com/peter Vancouver Power Squadron: http://vancouver.powersquadron.ca |
Radar vs GPS/Sounder
On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 09:07:50 -0800, "Lloyd Sumpter"
wrote: Hi, Thinking of getting radar for Far Cove, mainly for this planned trip to WCVI, which has lots of fog. Now, I've survived 20+ years of sailing Georgia Strait, etc. without radar. If it's really foggy, I just stay put. If I venture out, I use several nav aids including GPS to determine my position, blow my horn and listen. I'm thinking that, even WITH radar, I wouldn't venture out in unfamiliar waters in dense fog. And if I was out and the fog rolled in on me, I would think that GPS, sounder and a good chart would be better to find that anchorage than radar, assuming I could see at least 100 ft or so. Comments? Radar does show you if there are any other vessels nearby, which charts and GPS do not. (I got radar for my Yamaha 30 after a trip back from Center Bay in the fog - I felt and heard a ferry go by, but couldn't see it at all!) Also, if I mount the radome on a post at the stern like most seem to, doesn't the mast and sail interfere with it looking forward? I had a RADAR mast on the starboard quarter on my Yamaha 30. I don't recall any significant blind spots, but did get some spurious echoes off the port bow. I initially had a radar reflector on the backstay a little above the radar - that arrangement gave some serious spurious echoes, which went away when I moved the radar reflector to the port spreader. I didn't find any need to tilt the radar antenna to allow for heeling, since there is generally little wind on foggy days, when you need the radar. When sailing on clear days, with the radar on, I did occasionally notice the windward shoreline disappear as the boat heeled. Lloyd Sumpter "Far Cove" Catalina 36 -- Peter Bennett, VE7CEI new newsgroup users info : http://vancouver-webpages.com/nnq GPS and NMEA info: http://vancouver-webpages.com/peter Vancouver Power Squadron: http://vancouver.powersquadron.ca |
Radar vs GPS/Sounder
On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 09:07:50 -0800, "Lloyd Sumpter"
wrote: Hi, Thinking of getting radar for Far Cove, mainly for this planned trip to WCVI, which has lots of fog. Now, I've survived 20+ years of sailing Georgia Strait, etc. without radar. If it's really foggy, I just stay put. If I venture out, I use several nav aids including GPS to determine my position, blow my horn and listen. I'm thinking that, even WITH radar, I wouldn't venture out in unfamiliar waters in dense fog. And if I was out and the fog rolled in on me, I would think that GPS, sounder and a good chart would be better to find that anchorage than radar, assuming I could see at least 100 ft or so. Comments? I wouldn't be without any of those, whether I had radar or not. If your boat is worth less than $5000, you might skip the radar. I lived without radar for many years with Loran C and depth sounder, Some charters I only had the depth sounder. But, having used them, I don't want to do without GPS and radar. Also, if I mount the radome on a post at the stern like most seem to, doesn't the mast and sail interfere with it looking forward? Not a problem. Rodney Myrvaagnes NYC J36 Gjo/a Capsizing under chute, and having the chute rise and fill without tangling, all while Mark and Sally are still behind you |
Radar vs GPS/Sounder
On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 09:07:50 -0800, "Lloyd Sumpter"
wrote: Hi, Thinking of getting radar for Far Cove, mainly for this planned trip to WCVI, which has lots of fog. Now, I've survived 20+ years of sailing Georgia Strait, etc. without radar. If it's really foggy, I just stay put. If I venture out, I use several nav aids including GPS to determine my position, blow my horn and listen. I'm thinking that, even WITH radar, I wouldn't venture out in unfamiliar waters in dense fog. And if I was out and the fog rolled in on me, I would think that GPS, sounder and a good chart would be better to find that anchorage than radar, assuming I could see at least 100 ft or so. Comments? I wouldn't be without any of those, whether I had radar or not. If your boat is worth less than $5000, you might skip the radar. I lived without radar for many years with Loran C and depth sounder, Some charters I only had the depth sounder. But, having used them, I don't want to do without GPS and radar. Also, if I mount the radome on a post at the stern like most seem to, doesn't the mast and sail interfere with it looking forward? Not a problem. Rodney Myrvaagnes NYC J36 Gjo/a Capsizing under chute, and having the chute rise and fill without tangling, all while Mark and Sally are still behind you |
Radar vs GPS/Sounder
On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 17:48:11 +0000, Jack Dale wrote:
On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 09:07:50 -0800, "Lloyd Sumpter" wrote: Hi, Thinking of getting radar for Far Cove, mainly for this planned trip to WCVI, which has lots of fog. Now, I've survived 20+ years of sailing Georgia Strait, etc. without radar. If it's really foggy, I just stay put. If I venture out, I use several nav aids including GPS to determine my position, blow my horn and listen. I'm thinking that, even WITH radar, I wouldn't venture out in unfamiliar waters in dense fog. And if I was out and the fog rolled in on me, I would think that GPS, sounder and a good chart would be better to find that anchorage than radar, assuming I could see at least 100 ft or so. Comments? I agree that a GPS, sounder and good charts are necessary. But given a choice between a chart plotter and radar, I would go with radar. The major reason is that radar will provide an indication of what is around me, mainly other vessels. In Juan de Fuca, that is a big consideration. Once you spend some time with radar you can interpret the screen quite easily. This would permit you to find the anchorage. Additionally, the racon buoys permit an great radar fix. Thanks for the input! I didn't mean an either/or scenario - it's more like: if I have GPS/sounder/charts, what extra does radar give me? And of course, it DOES show vessels, etc., but I'm thinking that's mainly a consideration in fog, and I'm wondering if I would venture out even if I HAD radar (after all, what if the radar quits?). So is radar worth it for the 1 day a year I MIGHT venture out in fog? Or, to put it differently, what ELSE is radar good for? Can I use it to determine if a freighter 10 miles away is on a collision course with me? Do others normally run with radar on, even if it's clear? Why? Lloyd Sumpter "Far Cove" Catalina 36 |
Radar vs GPS/Sounder
On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 17:48:11 +0000, Jack Dale wrote:
On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 09:07:50 -0800, "Lloyd Sumpter" wrote: Hi, Thinking of getting radar for Far Cove, mainly for this planned trip to WCVI, which has lots of fog. Now, I've survived 20+ years of sailing Georgia Strait, etc. without radar. If it's really foggy, I just stay put. If I venture out, I use several nav aids including GPS to determine my position, blow my horn and listen. I'm thinking that, even WITH radar, I wouldn't venture out in unfamiliar waters in dense fog. And if I was out and the fog rolled in on me, I would think that GPS, sounder and a good chart would be better to find that anchorage than radar, assuming I could see at least 100 ft or so. Comments? I agree that a GPS, sounder and good charts are necessary. But given a choice between a chart plotter and radar, I would go with radar. The major reason is that radar will provide an indication of what is around me, mainly other vessels. In Juan de Fuca, that is a big consideration. Once you spend some time with radar you can interpret the screen quite easily. This would permit you to find the anchorage. Additionally, the racon buoys permit an great radar fix. Thanks for the input! I didn't mean an either/or scenario - it's more like: if I have GPS/sounder/charts, what extra does radar give me? And of course, it DOES show vessels, etc., but I'm thinking that's mainly a consideration in fog, and I'm wondering if I would venture out even if I HAD radar (after all, what if the radar quits?). So is radar worth it for the 1 day a year I MIGHT venture out in fog? Or, to put it differently, what ELSE is radar good for? Can I use it to determine if a freighter 10 miles away is on a collision course with me? Do others normally run with radar on, even if it's clear? Why? Lloyd Sumpter "Far Cove" Catalina 36 |
Radar vs GPS/Sounder
Lloyd Sumpter wrote: On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 17:48:11 +0000, Jack Dale wrote: On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 09:07:50 -0800, "Lloyd Sumpter" wrote: Hi, Thinking of getting radar for Far Cove, mainly for this planned trip to WCVI, which has lots of fog. Now, I've survived 20+ years of sailing Georgia Strait, etc. without radar. If it's really foggy, I just stay put. If I venture out, I use several nav aids including GPS to determine my position, blow my horn and listen. I'm thinking that, even WITH radar, I wouldn't venture out in unfamiliar waters in dense fog. And if I was out and the fog rolled in on me, I would think that GPS, sounder and a good chart would be better to find that anchorage than radar, assuming I could see at least 100 ft or so. Comments? I agree that a GPS, sounder and good charts are necessary. But given a choice between a chart plotter and radar, I would go with radar. The major reason is that radar will provide an indication of what is around me, mainly other vessels. In Juan de Fuca, that is a big consideration. Once you spend some time with radar you can interpret the screen quite easily. This would permit you to find the anchorage. Additionally, the racon buoys permit an great radar fix. Thanks for the input! I didn't mean an either/or scenario - it's more like: if I have GPS/sounder/charts, what extra does radar give me? And of course, it DOES show vessels, etc., but I'm thinking that's mainly a consideration in fog, and I'm wondering if I would venture out even if I HAD radar (after all, what if the radar quits?). So is radar worth it for the 1 day a year I MIGHT venture out in fog? Or, to put it differently, what ELSE is radar good for? Can I use it to determine if a freighter 10 miles away is on a collision course with me? Do others normally run with radar on, even if it's clear? Why? Lloyd Sumpter "Far Cove" Catalina 36 Only you can answer the first question. As for uses ..... any collision avoidance situation, be it collision course or just wanting to figure how far you'll miss by, and what's the most dangerous target. Navigation ..... eyeball and exact, has many uses, plus docking in fog, maintaining a quick anchor watch .... too numerous. Problem you might have will be with power, to make as much use of it as you potentially could. |
Radar vs GPS/Sounder
Lloyd Sumpter wrote: On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 17:48:11 +0000, Jack Dale wrote: On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 09:07:50 -0800, "Lloyd Sumpter" wrote: Hi, Thinking of getting radar for Far Cove, mainly for this planned trip to WCVI, which has lots of fog. Now, I've survived 20+ years of sailing Georgia Strait, etc. without radar. If it's really foggy, I just stay put. If I venture out, I use several nav aids including GPS to determine my position, blow my horn and listen. I'm thinking that, even WITH radar, I wouldn't venture out in unfamiliar waters in dense fog. And if I was out and the fog rolled in on me, I would think that GPS, sounder and a good chart would be better to find that anchorage than radar, assuming I could see at least 100 ft or so. Comments? I agree that a GPS, sounder and good charts are necessary. But given a choice between a chart plotter and radar, I would go with radar. The major reason is that radar will provide an indication of what is around me, mainly other vessels. In Juan de Fuca, that is a big consideration. Once you spend some time with radar you can interpret the screen quite easily. This would permit you to find the anchorage. Additionally, the racon buoys permit an great radar fix. Thanks for the input! I didn't mean an either/or scenario - it's more like: if I have GPS/sounder/charts, what extra does radar give me? And of course, it DOES show vessels, etc., but I'm thinking that's mainly a consideration in fog, and I'm wondering if I would venture out even if I HAD radar (after all, what if the radar quits?). So is radar worth it for the 1 day a year I MIGHT venture out in fog? Or, to put it differently, what ELSE is radar good for? Can I use it to determine if a freighter 10 miles away is on a collision course with me? Do others normally run with radar on, even if it's clear? Why? Lloyd Sumpter "Far Cove" Catalina 36 Only you can answer the first question. As for uses ..... any collision avoidance situation, be it collision course or just wanting to figure how far you'll miss by, and what's the most dangerous target. Navigation ..... eyeball and exact, has many uses, plus docking in fog, maintaining a quick anchor watch .... too numerous. Problem you might have will be with power, to make as much use of it as you potentially could. |
Radar vs GPS/Sounder
"Lloyd Sumpter" wrote in message
... So is radar worth it for the 1 day a year I MIGHT venture out in fog? Or, to put it differently, what ELSE is radar good for? Can I use it to determine if a freighter 10 miles away is on a collision course with me? Do others normally run with radar on, even if it's clear? Why? I turn on the radar whenever I'm outside my home water (Boston Harbor) or if the conditions are ripe for fog. I often keep it in standby to save power and magnetron time (they do wear out), but I make a point of using for while on every passage. If there's ship in the distance, I try to work out a CPA (Closest Point of Approach). If I'm "racing" a boat, I use it to compute the other's speed. And if there's t-storms or squalls about, its fun to track them. One problem with radar is that it does take practice - especially to use it properly in the thick stuff. If you're thinking you can mount the screen down below and turn it on once a year, you may be better off not having it. -- -jeff "Constant Vigilance!" - Frances W. Wright |
Radar vs GPS/Sounder
"Lloyd Sumpter" wrote in message
... So is radar worth it for the 1 day a year I MIGHT venture out in fog? Or, to put it differently, what ELSE is radar good for? Can I use it to determine if a freighter 10 miles away is on a collision course with me? Do others normally run with radar on, even if it's clear? Why? I turn on the radar whenever I'm outside my home water (Boston Harbor) or if the conditions are ripe for fog. I often keep it in standby to save power and magnetron time (they do wear out), but I make a point of using for while on every passage. If there's ship in the distance, I try to work out a CPA (Closest Point of Approach). If I'm "racing" a boat, I use it to compute the other's speed. And if there's t-storms or squalls about, its fun to track them. One problem with radar is that it does take practice - especially to use it properly in the thick stuff. If you're thinking you can mount the screen down below and turn it on once a year, you may be better off not having it. -- -jeff "Constant Vigilance!" - Frances W. Wright |
Radar vs GPS/Sounder
On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 15:54:00 -0800, "Lloyd Sumpter"
wrote: Thanks for the input! I didn't mean an either/or scenario - it's more like: if I have GPS/sounder/charts, what extra does radar give me? And of course, it DOES show vessels, etc., but I'm thinking that's mainly a consideration in fog, and I'm wondering if I would venture out even if I HAD radar (after all, what if the radar quits?). So is radar worth it for the 1 day a year I MIGHT venture out in fog? Or, to put it differently, what ELSE is radar good for? Can I use it to determine if a freighter 10 miles away is on a collision course with me? Do others normally run with radar on, even if it's clear? Why? That is actually a different question, because a radar has value for measurement even when you can see. Example 1: If you need to anchor in a confined space, and the obstructions all show on the radar, you can maximize your scope by finding the center of a range circle that just kisses the three nearest obstructions. 2) Your chart shows you the safe distance from a headland. You put a circle of that radius on the screen. and steer so it doesn't intersect. 3) When you see a ship, you can put a bearing line on it and a range circle. If the ship comes inside the circle without moving off the bearing line you need to take action. In general, you will find that an accurate plan view of the surroundings is a valuable supplement to eyeballs. Rodney Myrvaagnes NYC J36 Gjo/a "Be careful. The toe you stepped on yesterday may be connected to the ass you have to kiss today." --Former mayor Ciancia |
Radar vs GPS/Sounder
On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 15:54:00 -0800, "Lloyd Sumpter"
wrote: Thanks for the input! I didn't mean an either/or scenario - it's more like: if I have GPS/sounder/charts, what extra does radar give me? And of course, it DOES show vessels, etc., but I'm thinking that's mainly a consideration in fog, and I'm wondering if I would venture out even if I HAD radar (after all, what if the radar quits?). So is radar worth it for the 1 day a year I MIGHT venture out in fog? Or, to put it differently, what ELSE is radar good for? Can I use it to determine if a freighter 10 miles away is on a collision course with me? Do others normally run with radar on, even if it's clear? Why? That is actually a different question, because a radar has value for measurement even when you can see. Example 1: If you need to anchor in a confined space, and the obstructions all show on the radar, you can maximize your scope by finding the center of a range circle that just kisses the three nearest obstructions. 2) Your chart shows you the safe distance from a headland. You put a circle of that radius on the screen. and steer so it doesn't intersect. 3) When you see a ship, you can put a bearing line on it and a range circle. If the ship comes inside the circle without moving off the bearing line you need to take action. In general, you will find that an accurate plan view of the surroundings is a valuable supplement to eyeballs. Rodney Myrvaagnes NYC J36 Gjo/a "Be careful. The toe you stepped on yesterday may be connected to the ass you have to kiss today." --Former mayor Ciancia |
Radar vs GPS/Sounder
Lloyd Sumpter wrote: Thanks for the input! I didn't mean an either/or scenario - it's more like: if I have GPS/sounder/charts, what extra does radar give me? And of course, it DOES show vessels, etc., but I'm thinking that's mainly a consideration in fog, and I'm wondering if I would venture out even if I HAD radar (after all, what if the radar quits?). So is radar worth it for the 1 day a year I MIGHT venture out in fog? Or, to put it differently, what ELSE is radar good for? Can I use it to determine if a freighter 10 miles away is on a collision course with me? Do others normally run with radar on, even if it's clear? Why? Yes, you can determine if that freighter 10 miles away is on a collision course. Should you get it? A lot depends on you, what you do with your boat and where you are. We got our first radar after the fog rolled in on us as we approached an unfamiliar anchorage at right dusk after sailing down the coast all day in beautiful weather. We didn't intend to sail in the fog that day, but to paraphrase Forest Gump, fog happens. After having it for 5 years now, we use it for the following: - Approaching any anchorage at night or in the fog. There have been a few times that had we not had it, I would have decided to stand offshore and await daylight before going in. - When sailing or motoring at night or in the fog/rain, etc. We do scans every 10 minutes (we use a simple kitchen timer that dings at us). - When leaving or returning to the marina at night or in the fog (we have a narrow dredged channel we have to stay in for a mile or so). We will sometimes leave in the fog as it will often be clear a mile offshore even though Bodega Bay is socked in. -- Dan Best - (707) 431-1662, Healdsburg, CA 95448 B-2/75 1977-1979 Tayana 37 #192, "Tricia Jean" http://rangerbest.home.comcast.net/TriciaJean.JPG |
Radar vs GPS/Sounder
Lloyd Sumpter wrote: Thanks for the input! I didn't mean an either/or scenario - it's more like: if I have GPS/sounder/charts, what extra does radar give me? And of course, it DOES show vessels, etc., but I'm thinking that's mainly a consideration in fog, and I'm wondering if I would venture out even if I HAD radar (after all, what if the radar quits?). So is radar worth it for the 1 day a year I MIGHT venture out in fog? Or, to put it differently, what ELSE is radar good for? Can I use it to determine if a freighter 10 miles away is on a collision course with me? Do others normally run with radar on, even if it's clear? Why? Yes, you can determine if that freighter 10 miles away is on a collision course. Should you get it? A lot depends on you, what you do with your boat and where you are. We got our first radar after the fog rolled in on us as we approached an unfamiliar anchorage at right dusk after sailing down the coast all day in beautiful weather. We didn't intend to sail in the fog that day, but to paraphrase Forest Gump, fog happens. After having it for 5 years now, we use it for the following: - Approaching any anchorage at night or in the fog. There have been a few times that had we not had it, I would have decided to stand offshore and await daylight before going in. - When sailing or motoring at night or in the fog/rain, etc. We do scans every 10 minutes (we use a simple kitchen timer that dings at us). - When leaving or returning to the marina at night or in the fog (we have a narrow dredged channel we have to stay in for a mile or so). We will sometimes leave in the fog as it will often be clear a mile offshore even though Bodega Bay is socked in. -- Dan Best - (707) 431-1662, Healdsburg, CA 95448 B-2/75 1977-1979 Tayana 37 #192, "Tricia Jean" http://rangerbest.home.comcast.net/TriciaJean.JPG |
Radar vs GPS/Sounder
On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 23:44:10 +0000, Rodney Myrvaagnes wrote:
On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 15:54:00 -0800, "Lloyd Sumpter" wrote: Thanks for the input! I didn't mean an either/or scenario - it's more like: if I have GPS/sounder/charts, what extra does radar give me? And of course, it DOES show vessels, etc., but I'm thinking that's mainly a consideration in fog, and I'm wondering if I would venture out even if I HAD radar (after all, what if the radar quits?). So is radar worth it for the 1 day a year I MIGHT venture out in fog? Or, to put it differently, what ELSE is radar good for? Can I use it to determine if a freighter 10 miles away is on a collision course with me? Do others normally run with radar on, even if it's clear? Why? That is actually a different question, because a radar has value for measurement even when you can see. Example 1: If you need to anchor in a confined space, and the obstructions all show on the radar, you can maximize your scope by finding the center of a range circle that just kisses the three nearest obstructions. 2) Your chart shows you the safe distance from a headland. You put a circle of that radius on the screen. and steer so it doesn't intersect. 3) When you see a ship, you can put a bearing line on it and a range circle. If the ship comes inside the circle without moving off the bearing line you need to take action. In general, you will find that an accurate plan view of the surroundings is a valuable supplement to eyeballs. All Great Information - thanks everyone! A couple of points I see that I hadn't seen before. One is night: I do occasionally sail at night, and it would be great to see the boats/ships rather than squinting at little lights (esp if they're towing things, which is very popular here on the coast. Anybody know if radar could pick up a log-boom?) Also, measuring distance from objects. Good point. Last time I was out, I needed to clear some rocks before making my turn - GPS is OK for that, but radar would have made it easier. And the point about practice I already thought about: If I'm only using it a few times a year, thick fog is NOT the place to figure out how it works! Final question: if the fog was thick (vis. maybe 100 ft) and you had radar (and GPS, etc) would you go out? Lloyd Sumpter "Far Cove" Catalina 36 |
Radar vs GPS/Sounder
On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 23:44:10 +0000, Rodney Myrvaagnes wrote:
On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 15:54:00 -0800, "Lloyd Sumpter" wrote: Thanks for the input! I didn't mean an either/or scenario - it's more like: if I have GPS/sounder/charts, what extra does radar give me? And of course, it DOES show vessels, etc., but I'm thinking that's mainly a consideration in fog, and I'm wondering if I would venture out even if I HAD radar (after all, what if the radar quits?). So is radar worth it for the 1 day a year I MIGHT venture out in fog? Or, to put it differently, what ELSE is radar good for? Can I use it to determine if a freighter 10 miles away is on a collision course with me? Do others normally run with radar on, even if it's clear? Why? That is actually a different question, because a radar has value for measurement even when you can see. Example 1: If you need to anchor in a confined space, and the obstructions all show on the radar, you can maximize your scope by finding the center of a range circle that just kisses the three nearest obstructions. 2) Your chart shows you the safe distance from a headland. You put a circle of that radius on the screen. and steer so it doesn't intersect. 3) When you see a ship, you can put a bearing line on it and a range circle. If the ship comes inside the circle without moving off the bearing line you need to take action. In general, you will find that an accurate plan view of the surroundings is a valuable supplement to eyeballs. All Great Information - thanks everyone! A couple of points I see that I hadn't seen before. One is night: I do occasionally sail at night, and it would be great to see the boats/ships rather than squinting at little lights (esp if they're towing things, which is very popular here on the coast. Anybody know if radar could pick up a log-boom?) Also, measuring distance from objects. Good point. Last time I was out, I needed to clear some rocks before making my turn - GPS is OK for that, but radar would have made it easier. And the point about practice I already thought about: If I'm only using it a few times a year, thick fog is NOT the place to figure out how it works! Final question: if the fog was thick (vis. maybe 100 ft) and you had radar (and GPS, etc) would you go out? Lloyd Sumpter "Far Cove" Catalina 36 |
Radar vs GPS/Sounder
On Mon, 24 Nov 2003 06:51:32 -0800, "Lloyd Sumpter"
wrote (with possible editing): ....snip Final question: if the fog was thick (vis. maybe 100 ft) and you had radar (and GPS, etc) would you go out? I'm drawing on experience from more than 30 years ago, when my boat (a 38' Hubert Johnson m/v) had loran and radar only, GPS wasn't yet around: No, I wouldn't unless it was some kind of emergency and then I'd be damn careful and proceed slowly. Why look for trouble? :) -- Larry Email to rapp at lmr dot com |
Radar vs GPS/Sounder
On Mon, 24 Nov 2003 06:51:32 -0800, "Lloyd Sumpter"
wrote (with possible editing): ....snip Final question: if the fog was thick (vis. maybe 100 ft) and you had radar (and GPS, etc) would you go out? I'm drawing on experience from more than 30 years ago, when my boat (a 38' Hubert Johnson m/v) had loran and radar only, GPS wasn't yet around: No, I wouldn't unless it was some kind of emergency and then I'd be damn careful and proceed slowly. Why look for trouble? :) -- Larry Email to rapp at lmr dot com |
Radar vs GPS/Sounder
"Lloyd Sumpter" wrote in message
Final question: if the fog was thick (vis. maybe 100 ft) and you had radar (and GPS, etc) would you go out? In New England, especially Down East, that's not a good question. Since fog is dependent on the water temperature, its quite common for harbors to be clear, while the fog lurks just off shore, waiting to be brought in by the tide. Casting off means accepting a fair chance of running into thick stuff. The first time I took my wife to Maine we got socked in at Jewell Island (the outer island of Casco Bay) in fog so thick we only got occasional glimpses of the boat anchored next in front of us for four days. Although we had radar, I had never used it and didn't think it prudent to learn there. For a day or two it was romantic, then my wife started complaining that she didn't want to spend the entire vacation there when LL Bean was only 6 miles away. We discovered, when we got up the nerve to poke out a bit, the we were actually on the inner edge of a bank, and the fog had never made it to the inner parts of Casco Bay. After that, we learned how to have faith in the radar. So the answer is, while we might decide to wait for a morning fog to burn off, we won't be held hostage by it. -- -jeff www.sv-loki.com If you can't say something nice, say something surrealistic. -Zippy |
Radar vs GPS/Sounder
"Lloyd Sumpter" wrote in message
Final question: if the fog was thick (vis. maybe 100 ft) and you had radar (and GPS, etc) would you go out? In New England, especially Down East, that's not a good question. Since fog is dependent on the water temperature, its quite common for harbors to be clear, while the fog lurks just off shore, waiting to be brought in by the tide. Casting off means accepting a fair chance of running into thick stuff. The first time I took my wife to Maine we got socked in at Jewell Island (the outer island of Casco Bay) in fog so thick we only got occasional glimpses of the boat anchored next in front of us for four days. Although we had radar, I had never used it and didn't think it prudent to learn there. For a day or two it was romantic, then my wife started complaining that she didn't want to spend the entire vacation there when LL Bean was only 6 miles away. We discovered, when we got up the nerve to poke out a bit, the we were actually on the inner edge of a bank, and the fog had never made it to the inner parts of Casco Bay. After that, we learned how to have faith in the radar. So the answer is, while we might decide to wait for a morning fog to burn off, we won't be held hostage by it. -- -jeff www.sv-loki.com If you can't say something nice, say something surrealistic. -Zippy |
Radar vs GPS/Sounder
In article ,
"Lloyd Sumpter" wrote: Hi, Thinking of getting radar for Far Cove, mainly for this planned trip to WCVI, which has lots of fog. Now, I've survived 20+ years of sailing Georgia Strait, etc. without radar. If it's really foggy, I just stay put. If I venture out, I use several nav aids including GPS to determine my position, blow my horn and listen. I'm thinking that, even WITH radar, I wouldn't venture out in unfamiliar waters in dense fog. And if I was out and the fog rolled in on me, I would think that GPS, sounder and a good chart would be better to find that anchorage than radar, assuming I could see at least 100 ft or so. Comments? Also, if I mount the radome on a post at the stern like most seem to, doesn't the mast and sail interfere with it looking forward? Lloyd Sumpter "Far Cove" Catalina 36 Back in the "Old Days", before GPS and Loran C, radars were used to Navigate and Position Fix. In todays Modern Wheelhouse, GPS has taken over the Position fixing duties, and a radar is used mainly to, "Keep you from bumping into things that move around" Chart Plotters and Good Watchstanding should keep you from "Hitting things that don't move", but a good radar gives the watchstander "Electronic Eyes" that can see thru snow, fog and night, and allow navigation in any NonVisual situation. Bruce in alaska -- add a 2 before @ |
Radar vs GPS/Sounder
In article ,
"Lloyd Sumpter" wrote: Hi, Thinking of getting radar for Far Cove, mainly for this planned trip to WCVI, which has lots of fog. Now, I've survived 20+ years of sailing Georgia Strait, etc. without radar. If it's really foggy, I just stay put. If I venture out, I use several nav aids including GPS to determine my position, blow my horn and listen. I'm thinking that, even WITH radar, I wouldn't venture out in unfamiliar waters in dense fog. And if I was out and the fog rolled in on me, I would think that GPS, sounder and a good chart would be better to find that anchorage than radar, assuming I could see at least 100 ft or so. Comments? Also, if I mount the radome on a post at the stern like most seem to, doesn't the mast and sail interfere with it looking forward? Lloyd Sumpter "Far Cove" Catalina 36 Back in the "Old Days", before GPS and Loran C, radars were used to Navigate and Position Fix. In todays Modern Wheelhouse, GPS has taken over the Position fixing duties, and a radar is used mainly to, "Keep you from bumping into things that move around" Chart Plotters and Good Watchstanding should keep you from "Hitting things that don't move", but a good radar gives the watchstander "Electronic Eyes" that can see thru snow, fog and night, and allow navigation in any NonVisual situation. Bruce in alaska -- add a 2 before @ |
Radar vs GPS/Sounder
In article ,
"Jeff Morris" wrote: I often keep it in standby to save power and magnetron time (they do wear out) Just a point of note here. Leaving the radar in standby on most civilian consumer radars does not save anything on Magnitron Time. What wears out is the Filiment (heater) and that is always ON whenever the Powersupply is on, even in Standby Mode. To convise yourself of this, do this simple test. When you first "Fire up" your radar, there is a timer that allows the Magnitron to "Heat up and Stabalize", usually for three (3) minutes or so. After that initial "Warm up Period", when going from "Standby" to "Operate" does your radar require another "Warm up Period"? If so, then you are correct on your Magnitron time statement.(Not very likely to be this way) If not, then then "Standby" only save you Transmit Power, and that's not really very much in most cases. Most modern Magnitrons have between 2000 and 4000 hours of Service Life and that is Filiment Life, really. Bruce in alaska -- add a 2 before @ |
Radar vs GPS/Sounder
In article ,
"Jeff Morris" wrote: I often keep it in standby to save power and magnetron time (they do wear out) Just a point of note here. Leaving the radar in standby on most civilian consumer radars does not save anything on Magnitron Time. What wears out is the Filiment (heater) and that is always ON whenever the Powersupply is on, even in Standby Mode. To convise yourself of this, do this simple test. When you first "Fire up" your radar, there is a timer that allows the Magnitron to "Heat up and Stabalize", usually for three (3) minutes or so. After that initial "Warm up Period", when going from "Standby" to "Operate" does your radar require another "Warm up Period"? If so, then you are correct on your Magnitron time statement.(Not very likely to be this way) If not, then then "Standby" only save you Transmit Power, and that's not really very much in most cases. Most modern Magnitrons have between 2000 and 4000 hours of Service Life and that is Filiment Life, really. Bruce in alaska -- add a 2 before @ |
Radar vs GPS/Sounder
I was curious about this issue, so I sent a query to RayMarine a couple of years
ago. Here's what I asked, with reference to a SL72 radar: I am curious as to the lifetime of the magnetron, or any other related components. I often leave the radar in Standby Mode to save power and magnetron wear, but have been advised that the magnetron is heated in standby and thus can wear out. How many hours use might I expect, and will standby reduce wear? Here's the response I received: The magnetron is being heated anytime the radar is in standby. This will not, however, significantly impact the life of the magnetron. Actual transmit time is what really wears out the magnetron. If you are really concerned about it, you can turn off the radar scanner by holding the CLEAR key in for about 10 seconds. this leaves the display energized, and available for the display of chart or data. You can turn the scanner back on at anytime by tapping the POWER key while on the radar mode. You will have to wait 70 seconds for the warmup sequence to complete. In an EMERGENCY you can always bypass the magnetron warm-up by holding in the ENTER key for 5 seconds. For systems installed on recreational vessels, we usually see upwards of 12,000 hours of magnetron operation. That averages out to about 4 years of heavy use. In many cases, however, we see magnetrons last 10 years or more. Jim McGowan Senior Product Support Engineer Raymarine Inc. http://www.raymarine.com By the way, the spec for my SL70 dome says that the power usage is 28 Watts transmitting, 9 Watts standby. That's a pretty significant difference. -jeff "Bruce in Alaska" wrote "Jeff Morris" wrote: I often keep it in standby to save power and magnetron time (they do wear out) Just a point of note here. Leaving the radar in standby on most civilian consumer radars does not save anything on Magnitron Time. What wears out is the Filiment (heater) and that is always ON whenever the Powersupply is on, even in Standby Mode. To convise yourself of this, do this simple test. When you first "Fire up" your radar, there is a timer that allows the Magnitron to "Heat up and Stabalize", usually for three (3) minutes or so. After that initial "Warm up Period", when going from "Standby" to "Operate" does your radar require another "Warm up Period"? If so, then you are correct on your Magnitron time statement.(Not very likely to be this way) If not, then then "Standby" only save you Transmit Power, and that's not really very much in most cases. Most modern Magnitrons have between 2000 and 4000 hours of Service Life and that is Filiment Life, really. Bruce in alaska -- add a 2 before @ |
Radar vs GPS/Sounder
I was curious about this issue, so I sent a query to RayMarine a couple of years
ago. Here's what I asked, with reference to a SL72 radar: I am curious as to the lifetime of the magnetron, or any other related components. I often leave the radar in Standby Mode to save power and magnetron wear, but have been advised that the magnetron is heated in standby and thus can wear out. How many hours use might I expect, and will standby reduce wear? Here's the response I received: The magnetron is being heated anytime the radar is in standby. This will not, however, significantly impact the life of the magnetron. Actual transmit time is what really wears out the magnetron. If you are really concerned about it, you can turn off the radar scanner by holding the CLEAR key in for about 10 seconds. this leaves the display energized, and available for the display of chart or data. You can turn the scanner back on at anytime by tapping the POWER key while on the radar mode. You will have to wait 70 seconds for the warmup sequence to complete. In an EMERGENCY you can always bypass the magnetron warm-up by holding in the ENTER key for 5 seconds. For systems installed on recreational vessels, we usually see upwards of 12,000 hours of magnetron operation. That averages out to about 4 years of heavy use. In many cases, however, we see magnetrons last 10 years or more. Jim McGowan Senior Product Support Engineer Raymarine Inc. http://www.raymarine.com By the way, the spec for my SL70 dome says that the power usage is 28 Watts transmitting, 9 Watts standby. That's a pretty significant difference. -jeff "Bruce in Alaska" wrote "Jeff Morris" wrote: I often keep it in standby to save power and magnetron time (they do wear out) Just a point of note here. Leaving the radar in standby on most civilian consumer radars does not save anything on Magnitron Time. What wears out is the Filiment (heater) and that is always ON whenever the Powersupply is on, even in Standby Mode. To convise yourself of this, do this simple test. When you first "Fire up" your radar, there is a timer that allows the Magnitron to "Heat up and Stabalize", usually for three (3) minutes or so. After that initial "Warm up Period", when going from "Standby" to "Operate" does your radar require another "Warm up Period"? If so, then you are correct on your Magnitron time statement.(Not very likely to be this way) If not, then then "Standby" only save you Transmit Power, and that's not really very much in most cases. Most modern Magnitrons have between 2000 and 4000 hours of Service Life and that is Filiment Life, really. Bruce in alaska -- add a 2 before @ |
Radar vs GPS/Sounder
On Mon, 24 Nov 2003 06:51:32 -0800, "Lloyd Sumpter"
wrote: Final question: if the fog was thick (vis. maybe 100 ft) and you had radar (and GPS, etc) would you go out? Absolutely. I have done so many times, when I wanted to be somewhere else for subsequent cruising. Fog doesn't necessarily last all day, and it may roll in during the day. Rodney Myrvaagnes NYC J36 Gjo/a "Be careful. The toe you stepped on yesterday may be connected to the ass you have to kiss today." --Former mayor Ciancia |
Radar vs GPS/Sounder
On Mon, 24 Nov 2003 06:51:32 -0800, "Lloyd Sumpter"
wrote: Final question: if the fog was thick (vis. maybe 100 ft) and you had radar (and GPS, etc) would you go out? Absolutely. I have done so many times, when I wanted to be somewhere else for subsequent cruising. Fog doesn't necessarily last all day, and it may roll in during the day. Rodney Myrvaagnes NYC J36 Gjo/a "Be careful. The toe you stepped on yesterday may be connected to the ass you have to kiss today." --Former mayor Ciancia |
Radar vs GPS/Sounder
On Mon, 24 Nov 2003 16:01:11 -0500, "Jeff Morris"
wrote: I was curious about this issue, so I sent a query to RayMarine a couple of years ago. Here's what I asked, with reference to a SL72 radar: // The magnetron is being heated anytime the radar is in standby. This will not, however, significantly impact the life of the magnetron. Actual transmit time is what really wears out the magnetron. /// Jim McGowan Senior Product Support Engineer Raymarine Inc. http://www.raymarine.com -jeff In case you're wondering.... the cathode coating 'wears out' by electron emission from the 'dull emitter' surface so that its emissivity drops. Brian W |
Radar vs GPS/Sounder
On Mon, 24 Nov 2003 16:01:11 -0500, "Jeff Morris"
wrote: I was curious about this issue, so I sent a query to RayMarine a couple of years ago. Here's what I asked, with reference to a SL72 radar: // The magnetron is being heated anytime the radar is in standby. This will not, however, significantly impact the life of the magnetron. Actual transmit time is what really wears out the magnetron. /// Jim McGowan Senior Product Support Engineer Raymarine Inc. http://www.raymarine.com -jeff In case you're wondering.... the cathode coating 'wears out' by electron emission from the 'dull emitter' surface so that its emissivity drops. Brian W |
Radar vs GPS/Sounder
I bought radar before this past season for the first time. Real "eye
opener". Found it very useful, even in clear weather -- we only get fog 4 day/month in the Northumbeland Strait. If I was venturing out on a longer range trip I would not be without GPS, sounder and radar. Jim http://jimthompson.net/boating/ECharting/JRC1500.htm On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 09:07:50 -0800, "Lloyd Sumpter" wrote: Hi, Thinking of getting radar for Far Cove, mainly for this planned trip to WCVI, which has lots of fog. Now, I've survived 20+ years of sailing Georgia Strait, etc. without radar. If it's really foggy, I just stay put. If I venture out, I use several nav aids including GPS to determine my position, blow my horn and listen. I'm thinking that, even WITH radar, I wouldn't venture out in unfamiliar waters in dense fog. And if I was out and the fog rolled in on me, I would think that GPS, sounder and a good chart would be better to find that anchorage than radar, assuming I could see at least 100 ft or so. Comments? |
Radar vs GPS/Sounder
I bought radar before this past season for the first time. Real "eye
opener". Found it very useful, even in clear weather -- we only get fog 4 day/month in the Northumbeland Strait. If I was venturing out on a longer range trip I would not be without GPS, sounder and radar. Jim http://jimthompson.net/boating/ECharting/JRC1500.htm On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 09:07:50 -0800, "Lloyd Sumpter" wrote: Hi, Thinking of getting radar for Far Cove, mainly for this planned trip to WCVI, which has lots of fog. Now, I've survived 20+ years of sailing Georgia Strait, etc. without radar. If it's really foggy, I just stay put. If I venture out, I use several nav aids including GPS to determine my position, blow my horn and listen. I'm thinking that, even WITH radar, I wouldn't venture out in unfamiliar waters in dense fog. And if I was out and the fog rolled in on me, I would think that GPS, sounder and a good chart would be better to find that anchorage than radar, assuming I could see at least 100 ft or so. Comments? |
Radar vs GPS/Sounder
Jim Thompson wrote:
I bought radar before this past season for the first time. Real "eye opener". Found it very useful, even in clear weather -- we only get fog 4 day/month in the Northumbeland Strait. If I was venturing out on a longer range trip I would not be without GPS, sounder and radar. We have a radar set on the tugboat. A bit old, and doubtfully installed by DPO, but it seemed capable of working. The return was very garbled and unclear, it would not even pick up large buildings on shore from more than 1/2 mile away. I was convinced that we should buy a new one, but going through the tuning & timing procedure in the owners manual (at least the DPO saved them) improved the return picture a LOT. Over the past year I've tweaked the thing a little here and there, as time & opportunity came along, and after some coaching by a retired Navy OS Master Chief, we get a great return picture out to about 16 miles. It will pick up a floating soda can in calm water, show rain squals, outline marshy shore, etc etc. Our radar has proven to be a really good tool for use in marginal visibility and for tracking ship traffic. When we first bought the boat I was not convinced of it's usefulness, especially not that particular set. But now it works great. BTW thanks Jeff for your comments about magnetron life. Fresh Breezes- Doug King |
Radar vs GPS/Sounder
Jim Thompson wrote:
I bought radar before this past season for the first time. Real "eye opener". Found it very useful, even in clear weather -- we only get fog 4 day/month in the Northumbeland Strait. If I was venturing out on a longer range trip I would not be without GPS, sounder and radar. We have a radar set on the tugboat. A bit old, and doubtfully installed by DPO, but it seemed capable of working. The return was very garbled and unclear, it would not even pick up large buildings on shore from more than 1/2 mile away. I was convinced that we should buy a new one, but going through the tuning & timing procedure in the owners manual (at least the DPO saved them) improved the return picture a LOT. Over the past year I've tweaked the thing a little here and there, as time & opportunity came along, and after some coaching by a retired Navy OS Master Chief, we get a great return picture out to about 16 miles. It will pick up a floating soda can in calm water, show rain squals, outline marshy shore, etc etc. Our radar has proven to be a really good tool for use in marginal visibility and for tracking ship traffic. When we first bought the boat I was not convinced of it's usefulness, especially not that particular set. But now it works great. BTW thanks Jeff for your comments about magnetron life. Fresh Breezes- Doug King |
Radar vs GPS/Sounder
On Mon, 24 Nov 2003 20:30:38 GMT, Bruce in Alaska
wrote (with possible editing): In article , "Jeff Morris" wrote: I often keep it in standby to save power and magnetron time (they do wear out) Just a point of note here. Leaving the radar in standby on most civilian consumer radars does not save anything on Magnitron Time. What wears out is the Filiment (heater) and that is always ON whenever the Powersupply is on, even in Standby Mode. To convise yourself of this, do this simple test. When you first "Fire up" your radar, there is a timer that allows the Magnitron to "Heat up and Stabalize", usually for three (3) minutes or so. After that initial "Warm up Period", when going from "Standby" to "Operate" does your radar require another "Warm up Period"? If so, then you are correct on your Magnitron time statement.(Not very likely to be this way) If not, then then "Standby" only save you Transmit Power, and that's not really very much in most cases. Most modern Magnitrons have between 2000 and 4000 hours of Service Life and that is Filiment Life, really. Bruce in alaska No flame, Bruce, but what normally wears out a magnetron is depletion of the cathode. The cathode is heated by the filament so that it will emit electrons. As the tube ages, its ability to emit them decreases. As radar operates in pulsed service, the tubes should last a good deal longer. Often, a magnetron which is substantially dead, will still "light up" just like the final output tubes in transmitters. -- Larry Email to rapp at lmr dot com |
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