On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 17:48:11 +0000, Jack Dale wrote:

On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 09:07:50 -0800, "Lloyd Sumpter" wrote:

Hi,

Thinking of getting radar for Far Cove, mainly for this planned trip to
WCVI,
which has lots of fog.

Now, I've survived 20+ years of sailing Georgia Strait, etc. without radar.
If it's really foggy, I just stay put. If I venture out, I use several nav aids
including GPS to determine my position, blow my horn and listen.

I'm thinking that, even WITH radar, I wouldn't venture out in unfamiliar
waters in dense fog. And if I was out and the fog rolled in on me, I would
think that GPS, sounder and a good chart would be better to find that anchorage
than radar, assuming I could see at least 100 ft or so.

Comments?

I agree that a GPS, sounder and good charts are necessary. But given a choice
between a chart plotter and radar, I would go with radar. The major reason is
that radar will provide an indication of what is around me, mainly other
vessels. In Juan de Fuca, that is a big consideration.

Once you spend some time with radar you can interpret the screen quite easily.
This would permit you to find the anchorage. Additionally, the racon buoys
permit an great radar fix.


Thanks for the input!

I didn't mean an either/or scenario - it's more like: if I have
GPS/sounder/charts, what extra does radar give me? And of course, it DOES show
vessels, etc., but I'm thinking that's mainly a consideration in fog, and I'm
wondering if I would venture out even if I HAD radar (after all, what if the
radar quits?).

So is radar worth it for the 1 day a year I MIGHT venture out in fog?

Or, to put it differently, what ELSE is radar good for? Can I use it to
determine if a freighter 10 miles away is on a collision course with me? Do
others normally run with radar on, even if it's clear? Why?

Lloyd Sumpter
"Far Cove" Catalina 36

Lloyd Sumpter wrote:
On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 17:48:11 +0000, Jack Dale wrote:


On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 09:07:50 -0800, "Lloyd Sumpter" wrote:


Hi,

Thinking of getting radar for Far Cove, mainly for this planned trip to
WCVI,
which has lots of fog.

Now, I've survived 20+ years of sailing Georgia Strait, etc. without radar.
If it's really foggy, I just stay put. If I venture out, I use several nav aids
including GPS to determine my position, blow my horn and listen.

I'm thinking that, even WITH radar, I wouldn't venture out in unfamiliar
waters in dense fog. And if I was out and the fog rolled in on me, I would
think that GPS, sounder and a good chart would be better to find that anchorage
than radar, assuming I could see at least 100 ft or so.

Comments?

I agree that a GPS, sounder and good charts are necessary. But given a choice
between a chart plotter and radar, I would go with radar. The major reason is
that radar will provide an indication of what is around me, mainly other
vessels. In Juan de Fuca, that is a big consideration.

Once you spend some time with radar you can interpret the screen quite easily.
This would permit you to find the anchorage. Additionally, the racon buoys
permit an great radar fix.



Thanks for the input!

I didn't mean an either/or scenario - it's more like: if I have
GPS/sounder/charts, what extra does radar give me? And of course, it DOES show
vessels, etc., but I'm thinking that's mainly a consideration in fog, and I'm
wondering if I would venture out even if I HAD radar (after all, what if the
radar quits?).

So is radar worth it for the 1 day a year I MIGHT venture out in fog?

Or, to put it differently, what ELSE is radar good for? Can I use it to
determine if a freighter 10 miles away is on a collision course with me? Do
others normally run with radar on, even if it's clear? Why?

Lloyd Sumpter
"Far Cove" Catalina 36


Only you can answer the first question. As for uses ..... any collision
avoidance situation, be it collision course or just wanting to figure
how far you'll miss by, and what's the most dangerous target.
Navigation ..... eyeball and exact, has many uses, plus docking in fog,
maintaining a quick anchor watch .... too numerous.
Problem you might have will be with power, to make as much use of it as
you potentially could.

Lloyd Sumpter wrote:
On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 17:48:11 +0000, Jack Dale wrote:


On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 09:07:50 -0800, "Lloyd Sumpter" wrote:


Hi,

Thinking of getting radar for Far Cove, mainly for this planned trip to
WCVI,
which has lots of fog.

Now, I've survived 20+ years of sailing Georgia Strait, etc. without radar.
If it's really foggy, I just stay put. If I venture out, I use several nav aids
including GPS to determine my position, blow my horn and listen.

I'm thinking that, even WITH radar, I wouldn't venture out in unfamiliar
waters in dense fog. And if I was out and the fog rolled in on me, I would
think that GPS, sounder and a good chart would be better to find that anchorage
than radar, assuming I could see at least 100 ft or so.

Comments?

I agree that a GPS, sounder and good charts are necessary. But given a choice
between a chart plotter and radar, I would go with radar. The major reason is
that radar will provide an indication of what is around me, mainly other
vessels. In Juan de Fuca, that is a big consideration.

Once you spend some time with radar you can interpret the screen quite easily.
This would permit you to find the anchorage. Additionally, the racon buoys
permit an great radar fix.



Thanks for the input!

I didn't mean an either/or scenario - it's more like: if I have
GPS/sounder/charts, what extra does radar give me? And of course, it DOES show
vessels, etc., but I'm thinking that's mainly a consideration in fog, and I'm
wondering if I would venture out even if I HAD radar (after all, what if the
radar quits?).

So is radar worth it for the 1 day a year I MIGHT venture out in fog?

Or, to put it differently, what ELSE is radar good for? Can I use it to
determine if a freighter 10 miles away is on a collision course with me? Do
others normally run with radar on, even if it's clear? Why?

Lloyd Sumpter
"Far Cove" Catalina 36


Only you can answer the first question. As for uses ..... any collision
avoidance situation, be it collision course or just wanting to figure
how far you'll miss by, and what's the most dangerous target.
Navigation ..... eyeball and exact, has many uses, plus docking in fog,
maintaining a quick anchor watch .... too numerous.
Problem you might have will be with power, to make as much use of it as
you potentially could.

"Lloyd Sumpter" wrote in message
...
So is radar worth it for the 1 day a year I MIGHT venture out in fog?

Or, to put it differently, what ELSE is radar good for? Can I use it to
determine if a freighter 10 miles away is on a collision course with me? Do
others normally run with radar on, even if it's clear? Why?


I turn on the radar whenever I'm outside my home water (Boston Harbor) or if the
conditions are ripe for fog. I often keep it in standby to save power and
magnetron time (they do wear out), but I make a point of using for while on
every passage. If there's ship in the distance, I try to work out a CPA
(Closest Point of Approach). If I'm "racing" a boat, I use it to compute the
other's speed. And if there's t-storms or squalls about, its fun to track them.

One problem with radar is that it does take practice - especially to use it
properly in the thick stuff. If you're thinking you can mount the screen down
below and turn it on once a year, you may be better off not having it.

--
-jeff
"Constant Vigilance!" - Frances W. Wright

"Lloyd Sumpter" wrote in message
...
So is radar worth it for the 1 day a year I MIGHT venture out in fog?

Or, to put it differently, what ELSE is radar good for? Can I use it to
determine if a freighter 10 miles away is on a collision course with me? Do
others normally run with radar on, even if it's clear? Why?


I turn on the radar whenever I'm outside my home water (Boston Harbor) or if the
conditions are ripe for fog. I often keep it in standby to save power and
magnetron time (they do wear out), but I make a point of using for while on
every passage. If there's ship in the distance, I try to work out a CPA
(Closest Point of Approach). If I'm "racing" a boat, I use it to compute the
other's speed. And if there's t-storms or squalls about, its fun to track them.

One problem with radar is that it does take practice - especially to use it
properly in the thick stuff. If you're thinking you can mount the screen down
below and turn it on once a year, you may be better off not having it.

--
-jeff
"Constant Vigilance!" - Frances W. Wright

On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 15:54:00 -0800, "Lloyd Sumpter"
wrote:



Thanks for the input!

I didn't mean an either/or scenario - it's more like: if I have
GPS/sounder/charts, what extra does radar give me? And of course, it DOES show
vessels, etc., but I'm thinking that's mainly a consideration in fog, and I'm
wondering if I would venture out even if I HAD radar (after all, what if the
radar quits?).

So is radar worth it for the 1 day a year I MIGHT venture out in fog?

Or, to put it differently, what ELSE is radar good for? Can I use it to
determine if a freighter 10 miles away is on a collision course with me? Do
others normally run with radar on, even if it's clear? Why?


That is actually a different question, because a radar has value for
measurement even when you can see.

Example 1: If you need to anchor in a confined space, and the
obstructions all show on the radar, you can maximize your scope by
finding the center of a range circle that just kisses the three
nearest obstructions.

2) Your chart shows you the safe distance from a headland. You put a
circle of that radius on the screen. and steer so it doesn't
intersect.

3) When you see a ship, you can put a bearing line on it and a range
circle. If the ship comes inside the circle without moving off the
bearing line you need to take action.

In general, you will find that an accurate plan view of the
surroundings is a valuable supplement to eyeballs.



Rodney Myrvaagnes NYC J36 Gjo/a


"Be careful. The toe you stepped on yesterday may be connected to the ass you have to kiss today." --Former mayor Ciancia

On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 15:54:00 -0800, "Lloyd Sumpter"
wrote:



Thanks for the input!

I didn't mean an either/or scenario - it's more like: if I have
GPS/sounder/charts, what extra does radar give me? And of course, it DOES show
vessels, etc., but I'm thinking that's mainly a consideration in fog, and I'm
wondering if I would venture out even if I HAD radar (after all, what if the
radar quits?).

So is radar worth it for the 1 day a year I MIGHT venture out in fog?

Or, to put it differently, what ELSE is radar good for? Can I use it to
determine if a freighter 10 miles away is on a collision course with me? Do
others normally run with radar on, even if it's clear? Why?


That is actually a different question, because a radar has value for
measurement even when you can see.

Example 1: If you need to anchor in a confined space, and the
obstructions all show on the radar, you can maximize your scope by
finding the center of a range circle that just kisses the three
nearest obstructions.

2) Your chart shows you the safe distance from a headland. You put a
circle of that radius on the screen. and steer so it doesn't
intersect.

3) When you see a ship, you can put a bearing line on it and a range
circle. If the ship comes inside the circle without moving off the
bearing line you need to take action.

In general, you will find that an accurate plan view of the
surroundings is a valuable supplement to eyeballs.



Rodney Myrvaagnes NYC J36 Gjo/a


"Be careful. The toe you stepped on yesterday may be connected to the ass you have to kiss today." --Former mayor Ciancia

Lloyd Sumpter wrote:

Thanks for the input!

I didn't mean an either/or scenario - it's more like: if I have
GPS/sounder/charts, what extra does radar give me? And of course, it DOES show
vessels, etc., but I'm thinking that's mainly a consideration in fog, and I'm
wondering if I would venture out even if I HAD radar (after all, what if the
radar quits?).

So is radar worth it for the 1 day a year I MIGHT venture out in fog?

Or, to put it differently, what ELSE is radar good for? Can I use it to
determine if a freighter 10 miles away is on a collision course with me? Do
others normally run with radar on, even if it's clear? Why?


Yes, you can determine if that freighter 10 miles away is on a collision
course.
Should you get it? A lot depends on you, what you do with your boat and
where you are.

We got our first radar after the fog rolled in on us as we approached an
unfamiliar anchorage at right dusk after sailing down the coast all day
in beautiful weather. We didn't intend to sail in the fog that day, but
to paraphrase Forest Gump, fog happens.
After having it for 5 years now, we use it for the following:

- Approaching any anchorage at night or in the fog. There have been a
few times that had we not had it, I would have decided to stand offshore
and await daylight before going in.
- When sailing or motoring at night or in the fog/rain, etc. We do
scans every 10 minutes (we use a simple kitchen timer that dings at us).
- When leaving or returning to the marina at night or in the fog (we
have a narrow dredged channel we have to stay in for a mile or so). We
will sometimes leave in the fog as it will often be clear a mile
offshore even though Bodega Bay is socked in.

--
Dan Best - (707) 431-1662, Healdsburg, CA 95448
B-2/75 1977-1979
Tayana 37 #192, "Tricia Jean" http://rangerbest.home.comcast.net/TriciaJean.JPG

Lloyd Sumpter wrote:

Thanks for the input!

I didn't mean an either/or scenario - it's more like: if I have
GPS/sounder/charts, what extra does radar give me? And of course, it DOES show
vessels, etc., but I'm thinking that's mainly a consideration in fog, and I'm
wondering if I would venture out even if I HAD radar (after all, what if the
radar quits?).

So is radar worth it for the 1 day a year I MIGHT venture out in fog?

Or, to put it differently, what ELSE is radar good for? Can I use it to
determine if a freighter 10 miles away is on a collision course with me? Do
others normally run with radar on, even if it's clear? Why?


Yes, you can determine if that freighter 10 miles away is on a collision
course.
Should you get it? A lot depends on you, what you do with your boat and
where you are.

We got our first radar after the fog rolled in on us as we approached an
unfamiliar anchorage at right dusk after sailing down the coast all day
in beautiful weather. We didn't intend to sail in the fog that day, but
to paraphrase Forest Gump, fog happens.
After having it for 5 years now, we use it for the following:

- Approaching any anchorage at night or in the fog. There have been a
few times that had we not had it, I would have decided to stand offshore
and await daylight before going in.
- When sailing or motoring at night or in the fog/rain, etc. We do
scans every 10 minutes (we use a simple kitchen timer that dings at us).
- When leaving or returning to the marina at night or in the fog (we
have a narrow dredged channel we have to stay in for a mile or so). We
will sometimes leave in the fog as it will often be clear a mile
offshore even though Bodega Bay is socked in.

--
Dan Best - (707) 431-1662, Healdsburg, CA 95448
B-2/75 1977-1979
Tayana 37 #192, "Tricia Jean" http://rangerbest.home.comcast.net/TriciaJean.JPG

On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 23:44:10 +0000, Rodney Myrvaagnes wrote:

On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 15:54:00 -0800, "Lloyd Sumpter" wrote:



Thanks for the input!

I didn't mean an either/or scenario - it's more like: if I have
GPS/sounder/charts, what extra does radar give me? And of course, it DOES show
vessels, etc., but I'm thinking that's mainly a consideration in fog, and I'm
wondering if I would venture out even if I HAD radar (after all, what if the
radar quits?).

So is radar worth it for the 1 day a year I MIGHT venture out in fog?

Or, to put it differently, what ELSE is radar good for? Can I use it to
determine if a freighter 10 miles away is on a collision course with me? Do
others normally run with radar on, even if it's clear? Why?


That is actually a different question, because a radar has value for measurement
even when you can see.

Example 1: If you need to anchor in a confined space, and the obstructions all
show on the radar, you can maximize your scope by finding the center of a range
circle that just kisses the three nearest obstructions.

2) Your chart shows you the safe distance from a headland. You put a circle of
that radius on the screen. and steer so it doesn't intersect.

3) When you see a ship, you can put a bearing line on it and a range circle. If
the ship comes inside the circle without moving off the bearing line you need to
take action.

In general, you will find that an accurate plan view of the surroundings is a
valuable supplement to eyeballs.



All Great Information - thanks everyone!

A couple of points I see that I hadn't seen before. One is night: I do
occasionally sail at night, and it would be great to see the boats/ships rather
than squinting at little lights (esp if they're towing things, which is very
popular here on the coast. Anybody know if radar could pick up a log-boom?)

Also, measuring distance from objects. Good point. Last time I was out, I needed
to clear some rocks before making my turn - GPS is OK for that, but radar would
have made it easier.

And the point about practice I already thought about: If I'm only using it a few
times a year, thick fog is NOT the place to figure out how it works!

Final question: if the fog was thick (vis. maybe 100 ft) and you had radar (and
GPS, etc) would you go out?

Lloyd Sumpter
"Far Cove" Catalina 36