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  #31   Report Post  
Old February 26th 07, 04:57 PM posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Default Lazy Jack vs Dutchman Sail Flaking System


"Charlie Morgan" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 10:43:38 -0600, "KLC Lewis"
wrote:


"Charlie Morgan" wrote in message
. ..

You are simply incorrect, Dave. Bart was roundly castigated in another
group by many people after he started a thread extolling the virtues
of the Dutchman System, and slamming the alternatives. He WORKS for
THE DUTCHMAN.

Bart also offered readers of that group a "deal" on the Dutchman
System, and Jon Ganz publically announced he was taking Bart up on his
offer. Bart and Jon are pals, and Bart has even visited Jon out in
California. We know that because Bart posted a public thank you to
Jon in that other forum.

How do you know what the normal royalty is for a Dutchman System?
Maybe it's half of the normal retail installed price. This isn't a
book or CD royalty of a dollar a copy. Jon has a cozy relationship
with an Employee of Dutchman and he got a special "insider deal" on
his system. I know you are also a personal friend of Bart's and have
gone sailing with him. He even helped you deliver your boat to winter
storage. So, really, your defense of Jon is as colored as his opinion
of the Dutchman System.

CWM


For what it's worth, if I'm in the market for a product and that product
is
going to cost me the same amount whether I buy it from seller "A" or
seller
"B," and seller "B" is a friend or aquaintance who will benefit from the
sale, I'll go with "B" every time.


That's not what happened in this case. And that guy, Dave, who is
defending Jon Ganz? His boat is, at this moment, sitting close enough
to the Dutchman's office that the Dutchman could probably hit it with
a rock, if he has a decent arm.

Believe whatever you like. Some people like being hoodwinked by
shysters. I brought up the issue because some people DO care about
paid shills pretending to be independent satisfied customers.

CWM


Do you know that Jon Ganz is NOT a satisfied Dutchman Customer? Maybe he's
just like that guy who liked the electric razor so much that he bought the
company.



  #32   Report Post  
Old February 26th 07, 05:42 PM posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Default Lazy Jack vs Dutchman Sail Flaking System

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 25 Feb 2007 23:13:25 -0500, Charlie Morgan said:

It's very dishonest, and reflects badly on the
product and it's maker.


Charlie,

I think you're way off base here. The major part of the cost for the
system
is not going to be the parts. It's going to be the sail maker's labor in
modifying your main, modifying your sail cover and installing the system.
Even a major break on the parts cost isn't going to make a big difference
in
the total cost.



I assume Chuckles is talking about me, since he's obsessed with me,
following my every word from newsgroup to newsgroup.

You're right. The labor was the major part of the cost... I decided that
since they were much more experienced with the Dutchman, it made sense to
get them to do it. The only additional expense besides what they charged me
was paying someone else to go up the mast. That was the cost of a lunch. I
modified the sail cover myself.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com



  #33   Report Post  
Old February 26th 07, 05:45 PM posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Default Lazy Jack vs Dutchman Sail Flaking System

"KLC Lewis" wrote in message
et...

"Charlie Morgan" wrote in message
...

You are simply incorrect, Dave. Bart was roundly castigated in another
group by many people after he started a thread extolling the virtues
of the Dutchman System, and slamming the alternatives. He WORKS for
THE DUTCHMAN.

Bart also offered readers of that group a "deal" on the Dutchman
System, and Jon Ganz publically announced he was taking Bart up on his
offer. Bart and Jon are pals, and Bart has even visited Jon out in
California. We know that because Bart posted a public thank you to
Jon in that other forum.

How do you know what the normal royalty is for a Dutchman System?
Maybe it's half of the normal retail installed price. This isn't a
book or CD royalty of a dollar a copy. Jon has a cozy relationship
with an Employee of Dutchman and he got a special "insider deal" on
his system. I know you are also a personal friend of Bart's and have
gone sailing with him. He even helped you deliver your boat to winter
storage. So, really, your defense of Jon is as colored as his opinion
of the Dutchman System.

CWM


For what it's worth, if I'm in the market for a product and that product
is going to cost me the same amount whether I buy it from seller "A" or
seller "B," and seller "B" is a friend or aquaintance who will benefit
from the sale, I'll go with "B" every time.



I would also, however, CWM, Chuckles, Binary Bill, etc., a known troll, is a
LIAR (all caps so no one misses it).

I know Bart quite well, and he did make the offer. I never said publically
or otherwise that I would take him up on it, and I didn't, since Quantum
gave me a comprehensive price and the parts and installation.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com



  #34   Report Post  
Old February 26th 07, 05:47 PM posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Default Lazy Jack vs Dutchman Sail Flaking System

"KLC Lewis" wrote in message
...

"Charlie Morgan" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 10:43:38 -0600, "KLC Lewis"
wrote:


"Charlie Morgan" wrote in message
...

You are simply incorrect, Dave. Bart was roundly castigated in another
group by many people after he started a thread extolling the virtues
of the Dutchman System, and slamming the alternatives. He WORKS for
THE DUTCHMAN.

Bart also offered readers of that group a "deal" on the Dutchman
System, and Jon Ganz publically announced he was taking Bart up on his
offer. Bart and Jon are pals, and Bart has even visited Jon out in
California. We know that because Bart posted a public thank you to
Jon in that other forum.

How do you know what the normal royalty is for a Dutchman System?
Maybe it's half of the normal retail installed price. This isn't a
book or CD royalty of a dollar a copy. Jon has a cozy relationship
with an Employee of Dutchman and he got a special "insider deal" on
his system. I know you are also a personal friend of Bart's and have
gone sailing with him. He even helped you deliver your boat to winter
storage. So, really, your defense of Jon is as colored as his opinion
of the Dutchman System.

CWM

For what it's worth, if I'm in the market for a product and that product
is
going to cost me the same amount whether I buy it from seller "A" or
seller
"B," and seller "B" is a friend or aquaintance who will benefit from the
sale, I'll go with "B" every time.


That's not what happened in this case. And that guy, Dave, who is
defending Jon Ganz? His boat is, at this moment, sitting close enough
to the Dutchman's office that the Dutchman could probably hit it with
a rock, if he has a decent arm.

Believe whatever you like. Some people like being hoodwinked by
shysters. I brought up the issue because some people DO care about
paid shills pretending to be independent satisfied customers.

CWM


Do you know that Jon Ganz is NOT a satisfied Dutchman Customer? Maybe he's
just like that guy who liked the electric razor so much that he bought the
company.


Sorry. I use Norelco.

*Disclaimer: I got a huge discount from them for the razor parts, and I
assembled it myself.
*Additional disclaimer: It now doubles as a chainsaw.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com



  #35   Report Post  
Old February 26th 07, 05:49 PM posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Default Lazy Jack vs Dutchman Sail Flaking System

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 11:50:34 -0500, Charlie Morgan said:

That's not what happened in this case. And that guy, Dave, who is
defending Jon Ganz? His boat is, at this moment, sitting close enough
to the Dutchman's office that the Dutchman could probably hit it with
a rock, if he has a decent arm.


Absolutely. Even stopped in to talk to Martin Van Breen, the guy who
invented the system, since he's located in the yard where I haul. Pointed
out to him that it looked like the repair on the ports of his CS27 at the
dock hadn't been done properly. So does that make me a shill for his
system?

Charlie, you really should have been on Joe McCarthy's staff.



He's pretty pathetic, besides being a liar. Just forget it.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com





  #36   Report Post  
Old February 26th 07, 06:03 PM posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Default Lazy Jack vs Dutchman Sail Flaking System

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 12:32:34 -0500, Charlie Morgan said:

And yes, your defense
of Jon's marketing of the Dutchman's System is highly colored by your
own personal connections to Jon's buddy Bart. Maybe you hopped on this
"case" hoping to get a deal yourself? It wouldn;t surprise me.


Charlie, it sounds like you and Larry need to get together and share
conspiracy theories.


Now that's funny! I heard Anna Nicole and Elvis are hiding out together.

In the first place, if you want to jump on something it ought not to be my
defense of Jon. It ought to be my report on my very limited personal
experience with the system, which was favorable. Yes, that report was
colored by a number of things, including sailing on a boat with the system
installed, and having looked Martin in the eye and developing an
impression
that he's a straight shooter. Believe me, whatever savings I might get if
he
were to give me a "deal" by waiving a royalty fee (and I have no reason to
think he would) simply wouldn't be significant enough to either affect a
decision to install the system or to push his system. In any event, I
don't
expect to install his system any time soon, as I have other priorities
this
year.



Careful Dave, you're telling the truth. It's not something he can handle.


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com



  #37   Report Post  
Old February 26th 07, 08:20 PM posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Default Lazy Jack vs Dutchman Sail Flaking System

In Charlie Morgan writes:

On 26 Feb 2007 13:13:01 -0600, Dave wrote:


On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 12:55:58 -0500, Charlie Morgan said:

You will note that I have avoided giving MY opinion of the Dutchman
System. I'm only addressing the dishonest marketing tactics.


So what is your opinion of the system?

Or do you have to keep quiet because Martin gave you a deal on one g?



My opinion is that I've been on boats that have it, but I haven't felt
the slightest urge to put it on my boat. If I had a much larger boat,
I might be more interested, but I'd be more likely at that point to
get the Leisure Furl boom system. People I know that have the Dutchman
system have varied opinons that range from "gush" to "flush" and
everything in between. It's not for everybody, but some people DO like
it.


You'll get a much bigger benefit from your new furler.


CWM


I suppose, the furler has a different pricetag.

- Lauri Tarkkonen


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