I wonder what Beneteau means by Semi Full Battens mainsail with Lazy Jacks.
Why semi full batten?
Does it help the battens from catching on the Lazy Jacks?

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
"Skip Gundlach" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Feb 24, 3:15 am, "Capt. JG" wrote:
wrote in message


It's interesting how different things are important to people... I don't
have a problem with lowering the sail with either system, but I've had
problems with battens catching on the Lazy Jacks just about every time
I've
used them. I've also not seen the need to be dead into the wind to raise
the
sail with the Dutchman... close seems to work fine. Same goes with
dropping
the sail..

We have the MackPack system but I've sailed straight jacks.

Like you, I used to get the battens caught occasionally. However, on
Flying Pig, we just drop them, pull them forward, hoist, and then
position them loosely again to restore the reefing hook.

Well, that's not a problem if you have more than one pair of hands. The
extra effort doesn't seem worth it for something that's supposed to just
deal with the sails. It's yet another thing to do to get the sails raised
or lowered.


Loose lets them not get involved in sail shape, but allows reefing.
When it's time to drop entirely we just snug them up, drop the sail,
pull the zipper on its string, and we're covered up.

The stack pack is similar except that they have a batten in the top of
the cover to keep it up on the jacks; ours has grommets, and is kept
up by tension.

I've used the stack pack also... it's ok but then there's this bag that's
just sitting there, and if for some reason the sail doesn't go in
completely, it can be a hassle pushing it in.

I really like the concept and prefer it to the dutchman type for all
the reasons previously cited...

L8R

Skip



--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

wrote in message
news
I wonder what Beneteau means by Semi Full Battens mainsail with Lazy Jacks.
Why semi full batten?
Does it help the battens from catching on the Lazy Jacks?


Essie has "semi full battens" in her mainsail. No, it doesn't help the
battens from catching on the lazyjacks -- it's meant to gain the benefits of
full battens, but without the need for battcars. The battens are long, but
don't extend all the way to the mast. I like them -- they help maintain good
sail shape, something that regular length battens can't do, only being there
to support the roach.

wrote in message
news
I wonder what Beneteau means by Semi Full Battens mainsail with Lazy Jacks.
Why semi full batten?
Does it help the battens from catching on the Lazy Jacks?


I would think it would help minimally, but most of my experience with
battens/LJs have been with battens that are not full.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

One of our club members bought a 36-foot sailboat equipped with a Dutchman
system last year.

His comment after one season is that he could use a downhaul to get the main
down. The main does not come down as easy and flaking as advised.
It could be that the Dutchman system is not properly installed or fully
tuned up yet. Nonetheless, it gave me food for thought.



"Charlie Morgan" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 25 Feb 2007 13:42:44 GMT, wrote:

I wonder what Beneteau means by Semi Full Battens mainsail with Lazy
Jacks.
Why semi full batten?
Does it help the battens from catching on the Lazy Jacks?


When reading Jon's opinions, bear in mind that he has a close friend on
the
payroll of the Dutchman, and Jon gets his Dutchman products at a reduced
price.
Of course he thinks they are superior!

CWM

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
wrote in message
news
I wonder what Beneteau means by Semi Full Battens mainsail with Lazy
Jacks. Why semi full batten?
Does it help the battens from catching on the Lazy Jacks?


I would think it would help minimally, but most of my experience with
battens/LJs have been with battens that are not full.


As a follow up, I should say that LJs are definitely preferable to not
having anything. When I got my most recent boat, it had nothing, and going
from scratch had the local sail loft (Quantum) evaluate the main as
appropriately "young" for the Dutchman (it was), sell me the unit, modify
the main, and install it. They were very inexpensive and it sure was easier
than trying to rig it myself. I may have mentioned earlier, the training was
painless... a few times. I think a lot of credit has to go to the previous
owner who was very consistent with his sail flaking.

The last boat also had nothing, but was so small I made and put my own LJs
on her. They worked but did occasionally snag one of the particial battens.
It wasn't a big deal because I could usually just reach up and fix it. I
can't do that on my Sabre.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
wrote in message
news
I wonder what Beneteau means by Semi Full Battens mainsail with Lazy
Jacks. Why semi full batten?
Does it help the battens from catching on the Lazy Jacks?


I would think it would help minimally, but most of my experience with
battens/LJs have been with battens that are not full.


As a follow up, I should say that LJs are definitely preferable to not
having anything. When I got my most recent boat, it had nothing, and going
from scratch had the local sail loft (Quantum) evaluate the main as
appropriately "young" for the Dutchman (it was), sell me the unit, modify
the main, and install it. They were very inexpensive and it sure was
easier than trying to rig it myself. I may have mentioned earlier, the
training was painless... a few times. I think a lot of credit has to go to
the previous owner who was very consistent with his sail flaking.

The last boat also had nothing, but was so small I made and put my own LJs
on her. They worked but did occasionally snag one of the particial
battens. It wasn't a big deal because I could usually just reach up and
fix it. I can't do that on my Sabre.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com



My LazyJacks like to snag if I'm being a LazyJill. As long as I go forward
and slack them off, then pull the leeward LJ forward with a bungee before
hoisting sail, all's Jake.

In writes:

I wonder what Beneteau means by Semi Full Battens mainsail with Lazy Jacks.
Why semi full batten?
Does it help the battens from catching on the Lazy Jacks?

Some sailmakers prefer to make the two lowest battens only half the
lenght or nearer three quarters of sailwidth. It helps in reducing the
friction as the "wagons" on the end of the longest battens tend to be
pushed a bit to the side and thus have more friction.

To make it easier to hoist the sail between the lazyjacks you have to
hang the lazyjacks about one foot from the mast to the spreaders and
then point the boat straight into the wind when hoistin the sail.

- Lauri Tarkkonen

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
"Skip Gundlach" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Feb 24, 3:15 am, "Capt. JG" wrote:
wrote in message


It's interesting how different things are important to people... I don't
have a problem with lowering the sail with either system, but I've had
problems with battens catching on the Lazy Jacks just about every time
I've
used them. I've also not seen the need to be dead into the wind to raise
the
sail with the Dutchman... close seems to work fine. Same goes with
dropping
the sail..

We have the MackPack system but I've sailed straight jacks.

Like you, I used to get the battens caught occasionally. However, on
Flying Pig, we just drop them, pull them forward, hoist, and then
position them loosely again to restore the reefing hook.

Well, that's not a problem if you have more than one pair of hands. The
extra effort doesn't seem worth it for something that's supposed to just
deal with the sails. It's yet another thing to do to get the sails raised
or lowered.


Loose lets them not get involved in sail shape, but allows reefing.
When it's time to drop entirely we just snug them up, drop the sail,
pull the zipper on its string, and we're covered up.

The stack pack is similar except that they have a batten in the top of
the cover to keep it up on the jacks; ours has grommets, and is kept
up by tension.

I've used the stack pack also... it's ok but then there's this bag that's
just sitting there, and if for some reason the sail doesn't go in
completely, it can be a hassle pushing it in.

I really like the concept and prefer it to the dutchman type for all
the reasons previously cited...

L8R

Skip



--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

In writes:

One of our club members bought a 36-foot sailboat equipped with a Dutchman
system last year.

His comment after one season is that he could use a downhaul to get the main
down. The main does not come down as easy and flaking as advised.
It could be that the Dutchman system is not properly installed or fully
tuned up yet. Nonetheless, it gave me food for thought.

For the Dutchman to work properly you have to have the vertical parts
properly lined with the holes in the sail, the grommets big enough and
the rope smooth and the lenght of the chord you splice the vertical
parts must be such that when you ease the hallyard the weight of the
boom will make everything reasonably tight, not too tight. Then you hope
that the gravity will not fail you. :-).

Many conditions. If not properly set up, the gravity is not enough to
pull the sail down.

- Lauri Tarkkonen



"Charlie Morgan" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 25 Feb 2007 13:42:44 GMT, wrote:

I wonder what Beneteau means by Semi Full Battens mainsail with Lazy
Jacks.
Why semi full batten?
Does it help the battens from catching on the Lazy Jacks?


When reading Jon's opinions, bear in mind that he has a close friend on
the
payroll of the Dutchman, and Jon gets his Dutchman products at a reduced
price.
Of course he thinks they are superior!

CWM

On Sun, 25 Feb 2007 10:23:36 -0800, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

As a follow up, I should say that LJs are definitely preferable to not
having anything.

I agree with that, I think they're a big help getting the main under
control.

On my old Cal-34 we rigged something that I called "poor man's lazy
jacks". Basically they were just two pieces of 3/8ths shock cord run
along each side of the boom, each with a small loop tied in the middle
of the shock cord. When I wanted to use the "lazy jacks" I'd bring a
halyard aft around the shrouds on each side of the boat, clip each
halyard to the loop in the shock cord, and then hoist the halyard up
about 15 ft forming a triangle with the shock cord on each side of the
boom. It was very effective, cost next to nothing, and was out of the
way when you didn't need it.

In article ,
Dave wrote:
On Sun, 25 Feb 2007 18:15:46 GMT, said:

His comment after one season is that he could use a downhaul to get the main
down. The main does not come down as easy and flaking as advised.
It could be that the Dutchman system is not properly installed or fully
tuned up yet. Nonetheless, it gave me food for thought.

My one experience with the system was on one of Martin's boats last winter.
It worked very much as advertised. Let out the halyard, and the sail neatly
flaked itself on top of the mast. No hassle--just put on the sail cover.

Of course, if it flakes itself on top of the mast, you'll be having
other problems. g

Obviously, if the sail would otherwise not drop easily when you let out the
halyard, the Dutchman system isn't going to help. You're dealing with a
separate issue.

Sure thing.

My one hesitation about the system is that it's said not to work as well
when the sail gets older.

Actually, I don't think that's the case. The old sail will retain it's
memory, even when ragged. I think the biggest downside to the system
is that you have to modify the new main.

The "fishing line" used to channel the sail does get worn, and it
needs to be replaced every few years, but it's cheap and easy to
do. There is an issue of getting dirt marks on the sail from water
running down the line, but so far has been minimal for me.


--
Capt. JG @@
www.sailnow.com