Doug Dotson wrote:

... ... ALERT, ALERT... Just picked up a case of KALIK at my local
liquor store. They have finally started importing to our area. Alot cheaper
than the $35/case in Marsh Harbor! Life is good again! We carried 2 cases
all the way from Marsh Harbor to home last spring. Much easier this way!


???? HOW can it be cheaper in the US than in the islands where, I
believe, it's produced -- AND where there's a hefty tax on top of
shipping...????

Doug: Could you check on a bottle and see where yours was produced?
Could this be a "produced under authority of...." type of thing?

--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

Peggie Hall wrote:

Steve wrote:

I was surprised then they wanted to charge me $3.50 for a small bag
of trash
at the dock at Deer Harbor in the San Juans, WA.

It these local communities want to encourage visits by boater and
want these
boaters to refrain from tossing trash in the water or in the woods,
there
shouldn't be any charge for trash.


So you think you should get a service for free that costs marinas money?

Not, if my impression is correct that Deer Harbor is an isolated or at
least very remote area. $3.50 for a small bag sounds incredibly
overpriced -- seemingly designed to have the boaters take their trash
back with them (not itself bad) -- but if the actual costs to properly
dispose of that much trash are that high, I don't disagree. Then again,
in the BVI and other Caribbean islands, they charge a nominal $1 per big
trash bag and burn it on the other side of the island, making a living
in the process.

My proximate complaint is charging quite a bit more than costs. For
instance, charging $1 for each of our little trash (grocery store) bags
is FAR in excess of the cost to haul it away (and my hazy recollection
was that the charge was higher). The dumpsters at our marina can hold
several hundreds of these little bags and probably a hundred or two big
garbage bags.

My underlying complaint is charging for each and every thing -- the MBA
mentality. I have basic disagreements with that philosophy. The bottom
line might improve for a while, but will degrade if there's any
intelligent competition. For instance, Worton Creek Marina [the least
accessible of the marinas at Worton Creek] used to give free pumpouts if
you got some fuel (even our usual 3 gallons). Heck, that was only $5 ,
but because I liked their attitude, we'd bypass the other marinas and
brave the skinny water to give them business even if we really didn't
need fuel or a pumpout. (Since they eliminated that, we only stop by
when we need their better store.)

Boats don't demand much compared to the business they bring. Charging
specifically for water, trash, showers, minimal electric and such when
the average demand on these things is small and the costs low is short
sighted.

On our little Xan, we can easily stay out for a week at a time (our
water and holding tanks being our limits), so we can (usually) pick and
choose our marina and anchorage stops. Those places that $5 and $10 us
to death get little of our repeat business.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

Bottle is the same one as in the Bahamas other than the
info about thge import company. Brewed by
the Commonwealth Brewing Company, Nassau, Bahamas.
Imported by Fischer Beverages International, White Plains,
NY. $6.75 per six pack here, case price $24 or so.

Go figure.

Doug

"Jere Lull" wrote in message
...
Doug Dotson wrote:

... ... ALERT, ALERT... Just picked up a case of KALIK at my local
liquor store. They have finally started importing to our area. Alot
cheaper
than the $35/case in Marsh Harbor! Life is good again! We carried 2 cases
all the way from Marsh Harbor to home last spring. Much easier this way!


???? HOW can it be cheaper in the US than in the islands where, I
believe, it's produced -- AND where there's a hefty tax on top of
shipping...????

Doug: Could you check on a bottle and see where yours was produced?
Could this be a "produced under authority of...." type of thing?

--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

Peggie Hall wrote:

anonymous wrote:
On Wed, 01 Oct 2003 19:37:50 GMT, Peggie Hall said:


That may have to do with the source of their electricity. If it's
supplied by an electric cooperative--which are common in rural areas,
neither the co-op nor its customers are allowed to make a profit...as
you said, they can only pass along their actual costs.


Classic example of what happens when you get the misguided guvmint involved.
Of course they make a profit by supplying the electricity. They just have to
charge more to the users who don't use it instead of just the ones who do.

Classic example of mouth engaging without brain. Electric co-ops are
"member" owned...the only thing the gov't has to do with 'em is the
regulation against making a profit. In fact, co-ops usually supply power
at a much cheaper rate than for-profit publicly owned electric companies.

When I was farming I bought supplies and electricity from co-op.s.
Suppliers like Southern States set prices to avoid loss so there was
always a little profit left at the end of each year. That money was paid
back to "producers" (members) pro-rata based on how many $$$ each member
spent with them - an after the fact discount if you will that erased all
profits and made a nice xmas bonus. The electric co-op did the same but
all users were included as members. How that equates to charging
non-users instead of users escapes me.

Glenn Ashmore ) wrote:
: I would not be surprised at all up there. GEtting rid of garbage on an
: island is always a problem. They probably have to pay a bunch to have
: it hauled over to Bellingham.

You pay for the dock, an outragious fee for electricity, and showers. I don't
recall if you pay for water or not. It's been a couple years since I been at
Deer Harbor, but Friday Harbor the trash is free. Same with other marinas
in the area. I've always felt that Deer Harbor was out to squeeze every
penny they could.

: Steve wrote:
: Speaking of trash..
:
: I was surprised then they wanted to charge me $3.50 for a small bag of trash
: at the dock at Deer Harbor in the San Juans, WA.
:
: It these local communities want to encourage visits by boater and want these
: boaters to refrain from tossing trash in the water or in the woods, there
: shouldn't be any charge for trash.
:
:


: --
: Glenn Ashmore

: I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
: there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
: Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com


--
Jim Hollenback

my opinion.

Vito wrote:
When I was farming I bought supplies and electricity from co-op.s.
Suppliers like Southern States set prices to avoid loss so there was
always a little profit left at the end of each year. That money was paid
back to "producers" (members) pro-rata based on how many $$$ each member
spent with them - an after the fact discount if you will that erased all
profits and made a nice xmas bonus. The electric co-op did the same but
all users were included as members. How that equates to charging
non-users instead of users escapes me.

The way it works is, marina is the member/subscriber to the co-cop...and
it's the marina who gets the "master bill" from the co-op. All the lines
going to the docks and the meters to each boat are the marina's...the
meters at each slip are what the marina uses to itemize how much power
each boat is using...and it's the marina who's collecting from each one.
It's the same as if you'd put separate meters on your house, barns and
any other outbuildings or farmhand quarters and charged the occupants
for their pro-rata share of the power used. They pay you, but it's you
pays the co-op for the total amount used. What's illegal is charging the
occupants to whom you sub-let power more than just their pro-rata share
of your total usage.

Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/detai...=400&group=327

http://www.seaworthy.com/html/get_ri...oat_odors.html

anonymous wrote:

On Thu, 02 Oct 2003 02:22:47 GMT, Peggie Hall said:

Classic example of mouth engaging without brain. Electric co-ops are
"member" owned...the only thing the gov't has to do with 'em is the
regulation against making a profit.

Nope. Just proves my point. Guvmint does one thing with them and it's the
wrong thing.

Each co-op comprises a bunch of individuals who got together to (in this
case) buy electricity. It pays no taxes because it makes no profits.
AFAIK the Gummymint doesn't actually forbid profits; it just takes away
their "co-op" (nonprofit) tax status if they do. If this is "the wrong
thing" how do you think they should be treated?

Peggie Hall wrote:

The way it works is, marina is the member/subscriber to the co-cop...and
it's the marina who gets the "master bill" from the co-op. All the lines
going to the docks and the meters to each boat are the marina's...the
meters at each slip are what the marina uses to itemize how much power
each boat is using...

Ah so! The marina I'm moored in normally provides water and electric as
part of one's slip rental but if you live aboard they charge a somewhat
arbitrary additional fee based on experience and boat size (ie, expected
useage). Most sailors only spend a few hours a month using services
because they're either home or out sailing so the cost is negligable. A
few like me spend most weekends working on our boats but aren't charged.
Fewer yet live aboard and pay extra.

Y'all need to do a little homework into electric co-ops. (I wouldn't
know anythng about 'em if I hadn't been on the board of my marina's
tenant association, btw--the same marina that was overcharging its
tenants for electricity)...they aren't a group of individuals, they're a
buying group formed to bring power into rural areas that aren't
profitable for the big guys--from whom they buy power. They aren't
wholesalers or retailers, just one type of the major utilities'
customer. However, although co-ops are member owned, they're managed
just like any other utility...the difference being that both profits and
expenses are shared by the members. Co-ops buy power from the major
power companies...they also bear the cost of running the lines and
maintaining 'em. Just as members get back any money that wasn't needed
for expenses, they can also be assessed additional amounts if necessary.
Co-ops are not subsidized...nor are they allowed to be resellers--which
is what the marina tried to be. They're a break-even way for a
population to buy power for less than it would cost the major utilities
to supply it--which would be MUCH higher in rural areas than in cities
because of the lower ratio of customers to square miles...IF a major
utility would even run the lines. Most won't because the return on the
investment would be a negative...which is the reason why electric
co-ops exist in the first place.

At least all that's the way it used to work...but since deregulation, I
could be all wet.

Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://www.seaworthy.com/html/get_ri...oat_odors.html

Agreed! There would be no electricity between Macon and Albany GA if it
were not for the co-ops.

Peggie Hall wrote:
Y'all need to do a little homework into electric co-ops. (I wouldn't
know anythng about 'em if I hadn't been on the board of my marina's
tenant association, btw--the same marina that was overcharging its
tenants for electricity)...they aren't a group of individuals, they're a
buying group formed to bring power into rural areas that aren't
profitable for the big guys--from whom they buy power. They aren't
wholesalers or retailers, just one type of the major utilities'
customer. However, although co-ops are member owned, they're managed
just like any other utility...the difference being that both profits and
expenses are shared by the members. Co-ops buy power from the major
power companies...they also bear the cost of running the lines and
maintaining 'em. Just as members get back any money that wasn't needed
for expenses, they can also be assessed additional amounts if necessary.
Co-ops are not subsidized...nor are they allowed to be resellers--which
is what the marina tried to be. They're a break-even way for a
population to buy power for less than it would cost the major utilities
to supply it--which would be MUCH higher in rural areas than in cities
because of the lower ratio of customers to square miles...IF a major
utility would even run the lines. Most won't because the return on the
investment would be a negative...which is the reason why electric
co-ops exist in the first place.

At least all that's the way it used to work...but since deregulation, I
could be all wet.

Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://www.seaworthy.com/html/get_ri...oat_odors.html



--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com