Are you off your meds again :-)

Larry wrote:
"ajw" wrote in
ups.com:

Are there any implcations to the angle you can carry/store
them?


Yes. In any engine with loose lube oil inside it, you can only tilt,
carry and store it in certain locations. If, for instance, you were to
store it so the oil ran up against the bottom of the pistons, oil would
get past the rings into the top of the cylinders, after a time as they
are not hermetically sealed. It could become hydrolocked with lube oil,
which would bend the rods trying to get it past TDC on the compression
stroke with the valves closed. If the oil in the crankcase ran out the
crankcase vents in another position, what a mess. Cranking that would be
running the engine way low on lube oil, the oil that ran out now missing
from where it is needed.

The permissible carrying and storage positions designed into the portable
4-stroke outboards is defined in the owner's manual. Check that before
buying them. They are also much more complex and heavy than the
simplistic 2-strokers with no valve trains, camshafts, etc. a 4-stroker
must have. How far down the beach did you say you had to carry these
beasts? It's also an issue.

I tried to quote from Mercury or Evinrude from a downloaded owner's
manual, but both websites tried to force me to install Flash players so
they could run code on my computer to spy on me, which I will not permit,
and, once that was bypassed, informed me I had to already be an owner to
download an Evinrude owner's manual, making me question, "What are they
hiding?", as it costs them nothing to let me have a look, being a
potential customer.



Larry
--
Turkeys will be cheaper, Friday morning...(sigh)

With the new legislation coming in we are looking at 2 stroke vs 4
stroke. I am aware that few people use 4 strokes on inflatables and
fewer would manhandle them down beaches removing and replacing them
daily as we do.
Does anyone have any experience of using 4 strokes on inflatable boats
in this way? Are there any implcations to the angle you can carry/store
them?

I have replaced a small auxiliary outboard on my trailer sailer with a
4-stroke, it's heavier, seems a little less powerful, quieter, far more
economic & easier to start. I've never carried it anywhere a beach but
its a pain to get into the tender.... (They aren't called tender for
nothing)

My club has recently bought a 5m rib with a 4-stroke 40 on the back to
'patrol' the races. Its nice, but the engine IS heavy, is more
economical, less fast, more quiet (See a pattern here?) My only gripe
is that once you've rescued someone, with the rescued dinghy alongside
and 3 people on board, the thing won't plane.

Unless you have light divers with light diving gear and light lead
weights, I'd recommend you buy a 4-stroke 60 for the back of your new
boat. It'll still use less fuel and you should leave it bolted to the
back of the boat, anyway.

Artie

On Wed, 22 Nov 2006 00:58:01 +0000, Gordon Wedman wrote:

and don't some of those 2 strokes have fuel-to-oil ratios approaching 100:1
?
Not a lot of pollution there.

Oh, really? How much pollution is a lot? (Yes, that's a rhetorical
question.)

Matt O.

On Tue, 21 Nov 2006 13:13:14 -0800, ajw wrote:

I am a member of a Scuba diving club and we are investigating replacing
our outboard engines.

We currently have two Zodiac 5m inflatable boats (not RIBs) with 40HP 2
stroke Mariner outboards. These are reaching the end of their lives and
we are looking at replacing them.

With the new legislation coming in we are looking at 2 stroke vs 4
stroke. I am aware that few people use 4 strokes on inflatables and
fewer would manhandle them down beaches removing and replacing them
daily as we do.

4 strokes are more efficient, reliable, quieter, and cleaner than 2
strokes, but they are heavier. However, a newer 4 stroke may be lighter
than an older 2 stroke. So look at specs when you shop.

I believe there are newer 2 strokes that meet environmental
regs -- I don't know about in your size/power range though.

Comparing specs is one thing, but consider what's available to you
locally, parts and service wise. Everything's a compromise.

Does anyone have any experience of using 4 strokes on inflatable boats
in this way? Are there any implcations to the angle you can carry/store
them?

The small Hondas I've used can be laid on their side indefinitely. I
don't know about larger ones.

Matt O.

My Honda 8HP had to be laid down a specific way.

SBV


"Matt O'Toole" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 21 Nov 2006 13:13:14 -0800, ajw wrote:

I am a member of a Scuba diving club and we are
investigating replacing
our outboard engines.

We currently have two Zodiac 5m inflatable boats (not
RIBs) with 40HP 2
stroke Mariner outboards. These are reaching the end of
their lives and
we are looking at replacing them.

With the new legislation coming in we are looking at 2
stroke vs 4
stroke. I am aware that few people use 4 strokes on
inflatables and
fewer would manhandle them down beaches removing and
replacing them
daily as we do.

4 strokes are more efficient, reliable, quieter, and
cleaner than 2
strokes, but they are heavier. However, a newer 4 stroke
may be lighter
than an older 2 stroke. So look at specs when you shop.

I believe there are newer 2 strokes that meet
environmental
regs -- I don't know about in your size/power range
though.

Comparing specs is one thing, but consider what's
available to you
locally, parts and service wise. Everything's a
compromise.

Does anyone have any experience of using 4 strokes on
inflatable boats
in this way? Are there any implcations to the angle you
can carry/store
them?

The small Hondas I've used can be laid on their side
indefinitely. I
don't know about larger ones.

Matt O.

Arturo Ui wrote:
snip
My club has recently bought a 5m rib with a 4-stroke 40 on the back to
'patrol' the races. Its nice, but the engine IS heavy, is more
economical, less fast, more quiet (See a pattern here?) My only gripe
is that once you've rescued someone, with the rescued dinghy alongside
and 3 people on board, the thing won't plane.

If it's all the same to you, I'd rather you didn't do 25kts with my
dinghy alongside... reminds me of a story I once heard of someone who
was towed in by an RAF launch...

However 40 doesn't seem an awful lot for a 5m RIB full of divers and
tanks. It seems to me if you get a bigger motor you won't have to run
it flat out all the time, so it'll last longer too. Not that I know a
lot about these things.

Andy

"Charlie Morgan" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 22 Nov 2006 13:46:02 -0500, "Scotty"
wrote:

My Honda 8HP had to be laid down a specific way.

SBV


Did you find that a small inconvenience, or an
insurmountable obstacle, Scotty?

neither. it was no big deal. Do you think it would be for
you?



Is it more of a nuisance than having to carefully measure
and mix oil into the
gas, and keep it in a separate container for a 2-stroke
motor?


it was less of a nuisance than you are. I have several 2
stroke engines around here, so there's always a jug of pre
mix handy.

HTH
SBV

4 strokes are great for a lot of reasons, but if fuel quality is
questionable, they can be more trouble than 2 strokes. I've had fuel
problems with a 9.9 Yamaha 4 stroke, and an ob mechanic said water or trash
caused more problems w/4 strokes because of the smaller jets.

"Matt O'Toole" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 21 Nov 2006 13:13:14 -0800, ajw wrote:

I am a member of a Scuba diving club and we are investigating replacing
our outboard engines.

We currently have two Zodiac 5m inflatable boats (not RIBs) with 40HP 2
stroke Mariner outboards. These are reaching the end of their lives and
we are looking at replacing them.

With the new legislation coming in we are looking at 2 stroke vs 4
stroke. I am aware that few people use 4 strokes on inflatables and
fewer would manhandle them down beaches removing and replacing them
daily as we do.

4 strokes are more efficient, reliable, quieter, and cleaner than 2
strokes, but they are heavier. However, a newer 4 stroke may be lighter
than an older 2 stroke. So look at specs when you shop.

I believe there are newer 2 strokes that meet environmental
regs -- I don't know about in your size/power range though.

Comparing specs is one thing, but consider what's available to you
locally, parts and service wise. Everything's a compromise.

Does anyone have any experience of using 4 strokes on inflatable boats
in this way? Are there any implcations to the angle you can carry/store
them?

The small Hondas I've used can be laid on their side indefinitely. I
don't know about larger ones.

Matt O.

"Charlie Morgan" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 22 Nov 2006 17:05:31 -0500, "Scotty"
wrote:

-0500, "Scotty"
wrote:

My Honda 8HP had to be laid down a specific way.

SBV


Did you find that a small inconvenience, or an
insurmountable obstacle, Scotty?

neither. it was no big deal. Do you think it would be for
you?

.
No. Not at all. My car requires that I park it right side
up as well. I've never
considered that a problem.

I'm surprised that you own a car.

SBV

One of the things to avoid in laying a motor down is to get the prop higher than
the
engine head. In that case, water from the lower unit can seep up to the head
and
eventually cause the cylinders to seize up. Oil spillage is messy, but doesn't
result
in a very expensive repair job.

Sherwin D.

ajw wrote:

Hi

I am a member of a Scuba diving club and we are investigating replacing
our outboard engines.

We currently have two Zodiac 5m inflatable boats (not RIBs) with 40HP 2
stroke Mariner outboards. These are reaching the end of their lives and
we are looking at replacing them.

With the new legislation coming in we are looking at 2 stroke vs 4
stroke. I am aware that few people use 4 strokes on inflatables and
fewer would manhandle them down beaches removing and replacing them
daily as we do.

Does anyone have any experience of using 4 strokes on inflatable boats
in this way? Are there any implcations to the angle you can carry/store
them?

Thanks in advance for your advice

Anthony Whittaker