I was recently sailing in a 38' sloop rigged cruiser. Both the jib and
the main are the furling type.

I was caught off guard by a sudden 35 kt gust than pinned the sails
down hard. I fought to turn into the wind so that I can furl the
sails, but this was a real struggle, as the wind kept pushing the boat
out of irons and over on it's side. Unfortunately, the sails were not
reefed in the first place. Releasing the sheets helped ease the heel
angle, but caused a real mess as all the lines started whipping around
and getting tangled. Eventually, we managed to furl the sails, but it
was a real scare.

Any advice on what would have been the best way to handle that
situation?

Thanks,
Bob Bramble

wrote:
I was recently sailing in a 38' sloop rigged cruiser. Both the jib and
the main are the furling type.

I was caught off guard by a sudden 35 kt gust than pinned the sails
down hard. I fought to turn into the wind so that I can furl the
sails, but this was a real struggle, as the wind kept pushing the boat
out of irons and over on it's side. Unfortunately, the sails were not
reefed in the first place. Releasing the sheets helped ease the heel
angle, but caused a real mess as all the lines started whipping around
and getting tangled. Eventually, we managed to furl the sails, but it
was a real scare.

Any advice on what would have been the best way to handle that
situation?

Thanks,
Bob Bramble

We would turn on the motor and head straight into the wind. The easiest
sail to depower was the genoa. It was roller reefing, so we would roll
it up as fast as possible. Then with the main sheet snugged down so the
boom wouldn't whip around, we eased the main halyard from the cockpit
and one or two crew members would go up on the cabin roof and help the
main fall between the lazy jacks. This was on a Mirage 33.
If we had any idea the winds would gust anywhere near 35 knots, we would
have reduced sail before an emergency happening.

wrote:
I was recently sailing in a 38' sloop rigged cruiser. Both the jib and
the main are the furling type.

I was caught off guard by a sudden 35 kt gust than pinned the sails
down hard. I fought to turn into the wind so that I can furl the
sails, but this was a real struggle, as the wind kept pushing the boat
out of irons and over on it's side. Unfortunately, the sails were not
reefed in the first place. Releasing the sheets helped ease the heel
angle, but caused a real mess as all the lines started whipping around
and getting tangled. Eventually, we managed to furl the sails, but it
was a real scare.

Any advice on what would have been the best way to handle that
situation?

Thanks,
Bob Bramble



THis is capsize territory. Was there a reason why you couldn't
bear away for a while to give you time to think? (and eg
blanket part of the foresail with the main which opens other
options). I assume that the wind was a bullet of some sort
given it was totally unexpected, so it would pass quickly, and
that implies close quarters to land, but you don't say.

And if really desperate, you could let the sheets go. (which
do you want--a flogged-apart sail or a capsized vessel?)
--
Flying Tadpole

-------------------------
http://www.flyingtadpole.com


--
Flying Tadpole

-------------------------
http://www.flyingtadpole.com

wrote:
I was recently sailing in a 38' sloop rigged cruiser. Both the jib and
the main are the furling type.

I was caught off guard by a sudden 35 kt gust than pinned the sails
down hard. I fought to turn into the wind so that I can furl the
sails, but this was a real struggle, as the wind kept pushing the boat
out of irons and over on it's side.

This happened because when you turn into the wind and the sails stop
driving, the boat stops... which means that water stop flowing past the
rudder and you can no longer steer.

... Unfortunately, the sails were not
reefed in the first place. Releasing the sheets helped ease the heel
angle, but caused a real mess as all the lines started whipping around
and getting tangled. Eventually, we managed to furl the sails, but it
was a real scare.

Any advice on what would have been the best way to handle that
situation?


1- don't "release" the sheets, ease them under control.
2- if you have furling sails, haul in the furling line and reduce sail area.

Don't let sails flog, this causes damage. There is also the risk of a
sheet innjuring crew, or tangling on something and yanking it apart. A
35 knot squall isn't really so bad, but it can be a test.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

How did this happen? I am sure it is possible, especially if you have
no knowledge of sudden thunderstorms but............
I'd ease the jib sheet while rolling it in and also ease main sheet.
At first sign of a squall, or even thunder, I start engine just to have
it ready.
When the jib is furled have someone go on cabin top and pull down main
even if you are not into the wind but use engine to go into the wind.
However, allowinbg the lines to whip around should not cause real
problems, particularly with the jib sheets, if it does, perhaps you
need to rethink how they are led. I can imagine them getting caught on
the forehatch.
Other than flogging, how can easing the main cause problems? How can
it tangle? Perhaps you tried dropping the main without someone to pull
it down?
If you had gotten the jib under control, allowing the main to flog
should have kept you turned into the wind.
Something is wrong with this scenario, it doesnt seem to fit how my
boat behaves.
Doesnt the boat have weather helm to make it turn into the wind? Mine
does. Under such a situation, she'd turn into the wind so hard you
couldnt hold her off the wind, eventually the heel would be so much the
tiller wouldnt grab and she'd round up into the wind.
Next time, be prepared for sudden winds from a squall, they dont happen
out of nowhere (most of the time). Even thunderstorms imbedded in a
background frequently announce themselves by thunder and then by a
blast of cold wind. When you feel that cold wind, get those sails
down. However, you made it all work and know what to look for next
time.

wrote in message
oups.com...
I was recently sailing in a 38' sloop rigged cruiser. Both the jib and
the main are the furling type.

I was caught off guard by a sudden 35 kt gust than pinned the sails
down hard. I fought to turn into the wind so that I can furl the
sails, but this was a real struggle, as the wind kept pushing the boat
out of irons and over on it's side. Unfortunately, the sails were not
reefed in the first place. Releasing the sheets helped ease the heel
angle, but caused a real mess as all the lines started whipping around
and getting tangled. Eventually, we managed to furl the sails, but it
was a real scare.

Any advice on what would have been the best way to handle that
situation?

Thanks,
Bob Bramble


You might want to consider learning how to heave to. It's pretty simple, and
it will afford you the opportunity to deal with the situation in a calm and
reasoned manner. Every boat is different when it comes to heaving to. The
basic procedure is to immediately tack from a close hauled position without
releasing the jib. This backwinds the jib, which slows the boat down. Then,
you need to ease the main a bit to a lot, depending on the boat. Then, turn
the tiller toward the mainsheet (or the wheel away from it). This
configuration causes the boat to slowly scull back and forth. You will have
an opportunity to reef the main every time the pressure comes off it, as the
jib takes over. After the main is sufficiently reefed, then you can bring
the jib to the other side and start sailing. You could then blanket the jib
with the main on a deep reach and furl it in.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Flying Tadpole wrote:

wrote:
I was recently sailing in a 38' sloop rigged cruiser. Both the jib and
the main are the furling type.

I was caught off guard by a sudden 35 kt gust than pinned the sails
down hard. I fought to turn into the wind so that I can furl the

We have three roller furling sails (cutter rig). I would not regard
35 kts as a dangerous situation, especially if it is just a gust but
we have a bigger heavier boat than you probably do. Uncomfortable
certainly.

We might heave to, but fin keeled boats don't heave to very well. You
need to practice this a bit to see if you can do it. We can, but we
have a modified full keel.

I agree that you ought to turn on the engine to help maneuver the boat
into the wind. Keep in mind that it is just as effective to go dead
downwind as this also takes the pressure off everyone. IME, this is
easier to accomplish than to go into the wind. It depends on how
restricted you were in ability to maneuver.

sails, but this was a real struggle, as the wind kept pushing the boat
out of irons and over on it's side. Unfortunately, the sails were not
reefed in the first place. Releasing the sheets helped ease the heel
angle, but caused a real mess as all the lines started whipping around
and getting tangled. Eventually, we managed to furl the sails, but it
was a real scare.

Any advice on what would have been the best way to handle that
situation?

We have all the furling lines led back to the cockpit so that
everything can be handled from there. If you do not, then that is one
step you can take.

Another step is to keep the radio on so that you will get weather
alerts, and keep on eye out for squalls lines. When you see the big
thunderclouds and especially lightening, turn on the engine and start
to roll the sails in before it gets to you.

THis is capsize territory. Was there a reason why you couldn't
bear away for a while to give you time to think? (and eg
blanket part of the foresail with the main which opens other
options). I assume that the wind was a bullet of some sort
given it was totally unexpected, so it would pass quickly, and
that implies close quarters to land, but you don't say.

And if really desperate, you could let the sheets go. (which
do you want--a flogged-apart sail or a capsized vessel?)

grandma Rosalie

S/V RosalieAnn, Leonardtown, MD
CSY 44 WO #156
http://home.mindspring.com/~gmbeasley/id1.html

If caught Off Guard by a Squall - what to do:
the fastest thing is to let the wind go through by letting the sheets go.

I have been knocked down by a sudden gust of wind several times.
The first time I got knocked down it was on a bright sunny day when a down
spout took over and heavy rain took over with very strong wind.

Every time that it happened I noticed some black clouds and down spouts.
I can usually see the wind coming on the water and the rain starting. With
the strength of the wind the only thing I can do is to let the sheets go and
open up the sails until the blow is over. Usually it lasted 2-5 minutes
max. Any other tactics could damage the mast and rigging. Any sudden
movement of the boom or jibbing may cause severe damages.

Now when I noticed sign of any down spouts forming or unusual black clouds
in the horizon the alert is on and all sails are trimmed or pulled down.
Or better, before leaving the harbor, if I see signs of down spouts forming
I adjust the sails accordingly go bare poles or stay in.

"JG" wrote in message
...
wrote in message
oups.com...
I was recently sailing in a 38' sloop rigged cruiser. Both the jib and
the main are the furling type.

I was caught off guard by a sudden 35 kt gust than pinned the sails
down hard. I fought to turn into the wind so that I can furl the
sails, but this was a real struggle, as the wind kept pushing the boat
out of irons and over on it's side. Unfortunately, the sails were not
reefed in the first place. Releasing the sheets helped ease the heel
angle, but caused a real mess as all the lines started whipping around
and getting tangled. Eventually, we managed to furl the sails, but it
was a real scare.

Any advice on what would have been the best way to handle that
situation?

Thanks,
Bob Bramble


You might want to consider learning how to heave to. It's pretty simple,
and
it will afford you the opportunity to deal with the situation in a calm
and
reasoned manner. Every boat is different when it comes to heaving to. The
basic procedure is to immediately tack from a close hauled position
without
releasing the jib. This backwinds the jib, which slows the boat down.
Then,
you need to ease the main a bit to a lot, depending on the boat. Then,
turn
the tiller toward the mainsheet (or the wheel away from it). This
configuration causes the boat to slowly scull back and forth. You will
have
an opportunity to reef the main every time the pressure comes off it, as
the
jib takes over. After the main is sufficiently reefed, then you can bring
the jib to the other side and start sailing. You could then blanket the
jib
with the main on a deep reach and furl it in.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Rosalie B." wrote in message
...
Flying Tadpole wrote:

wrote:
I was recently sailing in a 38' sloop rigged cruiser. Both the jib and
the main are the furling type.

I was caught off guard by a sudden 35 kt gust than pinned the sails
down hard. I fought to turn into the wind so that I can furl the

We have three roller furling sails (cutter rig). I would not regard
35 kts as a dangerous situation, especially if it is just a gust but
we have a bigger heavier boat than you probably do. Uncomfortable
certainly.

We might heave to, but fin keeled boats don't heave to very well. You
need to practice this a bit to see if you can do it. We can, but we
have a modified full keel.

I agree that you ought to turn on the engine to help maneuver the boat
into the wind. Keep in mind that it is just as effective to go dead
downwind as this also takes the pressure off everyone. IME, this is
easier to accomplish than to go into the wind. It depends on how
restricted you were in ability to maneuver.

sails, but this was a real struggle, as the wind kept pushing the boat
out of irons and over on it's side. Unfortunately, the sails were not
reefed in the first place. Releasing the sheets helped ease the heel
angle, but caused a real mess as all the lines started whipping around
and getting tangled. Eventually, we managed to furl the sails, but it
was a real scare.

Any advice on what would have been the best way to handle that
situation?

We have all the furling lines led back to the cockpit so that
everything can be handled from there. If you do not, then that is one
step you can take.

Another step is to keep the radio on so that you will get weather
alerts, and keep on eye out for squalls lines. When you see the big
thunderclouds and especially lightening, turn on the engine and start
to roll the sails in before it gets to you.

THis is capsize territory. Was there a reason why you couldn't
bear away for a while to give you time to think? (and eg
blanket part of the foresail with the main which opens other
options). I assume that the wind was a bullet of some sort
given it was totally unexpected, so it would pass quickly, and
that implies close quarters to land, but you don't say.

And if really desperate, you could let the sheets go. (which
do you want--a flogged-apart sail or a capsized vessel?)

grandma Rosalie

S/V RosalieAnn, Leonardtown, MD
CSY 44 WO #156
http://home.mindspring.com/~gmbeasley/id1.html

I've never had any trouble heaving-to on fin keel boats.. rarely sail on
others. In fact, even the small Holders with retractable keels will heave
to. Why do you say that? They may not be hove to with as much stability as
other keel boats, but it usually works sufficiently for a squal. I've never
heard any reports that say they wouldn't do ok in offshore, high wind/wave
conditions either.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Heaving-to during a sudden strong gust of wind that struck you by surprise
is questionable. Heaving-to in steady and gradual strong wind has help.
Has anyone had practical experience in heaving to in strong Squalls where
the wind velocity may reach, at time, over 50 kits. In a Squall the
velocity of the wind does not build up it hit you full strength. I picture
myself opening a door and then be struck by a squall without any warning!
The impact is strong and may damage the rigging. Once the boat is knock
down at 90 degrees the sails do not offer any more wind resistance and the
rudder become non operational. The idea is to minimize the wind resistance
so the sudden impact does not produce a 360 degree knock down. In either
case safety harness shall be worn. The other thing to consider is to make
sure that you have a wide enough berth to maneuver.
"JG" wrote in message
...
"Rosalie B." wrote in message
...
Flying Tadpole wrote:

wrote:
I was recently sailing in a 38' sloop rigged cruiser. Both the jib and
the main are the furling type.

I was caught off guard by a sudden 35 kt gust than pinned the sails
down hard. I fought to turn into the wind so that I can furl the

We have three roller furling sails (cutter rig). I would not regard
35 kts as a dangerous situation, especially if it is just a gust but
we have a bigger heavier boat than you probably do. Uncomfortable
certainly.

We might heave to, but fin keeled boats don't heave to very well. You
need to practice this a bit to see if you can do it. We can, but we
have a modified full keel.

I agree that you ought to turn on the engine to help maneuver the boat
into the wind. Keep in mind that it is just as effective to go dead
downwind as this also takes the pressure off everyone. IME, this is
easier to accomplish than to go into the wind. It depends on how
restricted you were in ability to maneuver.

sails, but this was a real struggle, as the wind kept pushing the boat
out of irons and over on it's side. Unfortunately, the sails were not
reefed in the first place. Releasing the sheets helped ease the heel
angle, but caused a real mess as all the lines started whipping around
and getting tangled. Eventually, we managed to furl the sails, but it
was a real scare.

Any advice on what would have been the best way to handle that
situation?

We have all the furling lines led back to the cockpit so that
everything can be handled from there. If you do not, then that is one
step you can take.

Another step is to keep the radio on so that you will get weather
alerts, and keep on eye out for squalls lines. When you see the big
thunderclouds and especially lightening, turn on the engine and start
to roll the sails in before it gets to you.

THis is capsize territory. Was there a reason why you couldn't
bear away for a while to give you time to think? (and eg
blanket part of the foresail with the main which opens other
options). I assume that the wind was a bullet of some sort
given it was totally unexpected, so it would pass quickly, and
that implies close quarters to land, but you don't say.

And if really desperate, you could let the sheets go. (which
do you want--a flogged-apart sail or a capsized vessel?)

grandma Rosalie

S/V RosalieAnn, Leonardtown, MD
CSY 44 WO #156
http://home.mindspring.com/~gmbeasley/id1.html

I've never had any trouble heaving-to on fin keel boats.. rarely sail on
others. In fact, even the small Holders with retractable keels will heave
to. Why do you say that? They may not be hove to with as much stability as
other keel boats, but it usually works sufficiently for a squal. I've
never
heard any reports that say they wouldn't do ok in offshore, high wind/wave
conditions either.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com