I am looking at wind generators. According to the latest literature, the
Air-X marine wind generator is claimed to be 80% less noisy than the
(very loud and annoying in my opinion) older model, the Air Marine.

Can anyone offer any first hand experience with Air-X Marine wind
generator as compared to the old Air Marine one?

Also, does anyone have any recommendations for products in particular?
Real world experience is what I am looking for...the advertisign hype
isn't much use. Experience is.

Thanks

Jimmy

Oh yea, almost forgot.

Jaxashby please don't waste bandiwdth replying to my question. I've
visited this forum enough times to have figured out that your replies
are less than useless.

Thanks to all others who choose to reply though.

The new Air-X is definately quieter than the older ones. But the KISS
is much quieter than either and generates quite a bit more power.

Doug
s/v Callista

"James" wrote in message
...

I am looking at wind generators. According to the latest literature, the
Air-X marine wind generator is claimed to be 80% less noisy than the (very
loud and annoying in my opinion) older model, the Air Marine.

Can anyone offer any first hand experience with Air-X Marine wind
generator as compared to the old Air Marine one?

Also, does anyone have any recommendations for products in particular?
Real world experience is what I am looking for...the advertisign hype
isn't much use. Experience is.

Thanks

Jimmy

Thanks for teh reply Doug!

I have two concerns with the KISS Unit. I have been told that:

1) There is no slip ring, hence it can not rotate 360. You have to watch
to make sure it doesn't twist around and damage itself. In other words,
not for unattended operation.

2) There are thermal breakers in it. When the wind really pipes up and
you shut down by shorting the unit as you are supposed to do, the
windings can get hot and pop the breakers. Once they pop, the unit can
freewheel at top speed with no load. Seems dangerous.

Jimmy


Doug Dotson wrote:
The new Air-X is definately quieter than the older ones. But the KISS
is much quieter than either and generates quite a bit more power.

Doug
s/v Callista

"James" wrote in message
...

I am looking at wind generators. According to the latest literature, the
Air-X marine wind generator is claimed to be 80% less noisy than the (very
loud and annoying in my opinion) older model, the Air Marine.

Can anyone offer any first hand experience with Air-X Marine wind
generator as compared to the old Air Marine one?

Also, does anyone have any recommendations for products in particular?
Real world experience is what I am looking for...the advertisign hype
isn't much use. Experience is.

Thanks

Jimmy

James wrote in
:

Thanks for teh reply Doug!

I have two concerns with the KISS Unit. I have been told that:

1) There is no slip ring, hence it can not rotate 360. You have to
watch to make sure it doesn't twist around and damage itself. In other
words, not for unattended operation.


This is not quit true. The unit can spin several 360 degrees several
times. There's a spring inside that's supposed to re-orient the
generator when the wind dies. I've never seen this to be a problem.

2) There are thermal breakers in it. When the wind really pipes up and
you shut down by shorting the unit as you are supposed to do, the
windings can get hot and pop the breakers. Once they pop, the unit can
freewheel at top speed with no load. Seems dangerous.

I would definately state that this is a problem as I'm the one who has
been pushing this issue. I have one and this is my major concern.

Jimmy


Doug Dotson wrote:
The new Air-X is definately quieter than the older ones. But the KISS
is much quieter than either and generates quite a bit more power.

Doug
s/v Callista

"James" wrote in message
...

I am looking at wind generators. According to the latest literature,
the Air-X marine wind generator is claimed to be 80% less noisy than
the (very loud and annoying in my opinion) older model, the Air
Marine.

Can anyone offer any first hand experience with Air-X Marine wind
generator as compared to the old Air Marine one?

Also, does anyone have any recommendations for products in
particular? Real world experience is what I am looking for...the
advertisign hype isn't much use. Experience is.

Thanks

Jimmy

While the new units are definately quieter than the old ones, they're
still noisy in my opinion.

-- Geoff

James,

I appreciate your concerns but I think you have gotten some incorrect
information about the KISS. The KISS approach is to keep things simple,
maybe a bit too simple in some aspects. I'm currently working on a
controller that will solve some of the problems.

More comments below.

Doug
s/v Callista

"James" wrote in message
. ..
Thanks for teh reply Doug!

I have two concerns with the KISS Unit. I have been told that:

1) There is no slip ring, hence it can not rotate 360. You have to watch
to make sure it doesn't twist around and damage itself.

It is true that it does not have slip rings. This enhances reliability. It
is
not true that it cannot rotate through 360 degrees. It can rotate up to 3
complete revolutions in either direction. The very heavy cable just
twists. A tortion spring limits the rotation to 3 turns. In the 3 years I
have had mine it has never wound up more than 1 turn.

In other words, not for unattended operation.

Actually, the KISS is not intended for unattended operation even under
normal condition. There is no charge controller. Unattended operation
will lead to uvercharging and destroy you batteries or worse.

2) There are thermal breakers in it. When the wind really pipes up and you
shut down by shorting the unit as you are supposed to do, the windings can
get hot and pop the breakers.

I have never had this happen. When the unit is stopped by shorting the
windings, rotation is slowed almost to a stop. No chance to build up
much heat. I've had mine in up 50 mph winds and it spins at maybe 1/2 rps.
I flipped to switch to stop it when winds were around 40 when the thermal
breakers started to activate. The mill came to a nice smooth stop. I believe
what you think are thermal breakers are actually thermal switches that
short that windings due to overspeed. They close causing the mill to slow.
I've have this happen several times. I can not see any freewheeling possible
except for in an actual failure situation. But any mill has that
possability.


Once they pop, the unit can freewheel at top speed with no load. Seems
dangerous.

As I said above, I don't think this can happen unless something like
the thermal switch fails and any mill is capable of a failure that could
lead to freewheeling. That is except for those that use mechanical
braking.

Jimmy


Doug Dotson wrote:
The new Air-X is definately quieter than the older ones. But the KISS
is much quieter than either and generates quite a bit more power.

Doug
s/v Callista

"James" wrote in message
...

I am looking at wind generators. According to the latest literature, the
Air-X marine wind generator is claimed to be 80% less noisy than the
(very loud and annoying in my opinion) older model, the Air Marine.

Can anyone offer any first hand experience with Air-X Marine wind
generator as compared to the old Air Marine one?

Also, does anyone have any recommendations for products in particular?
Real world experience is what I am looking for...the advertisign hype
isn't much use. Experience is.

Thanks

Jimmy

"Doug Dotson" wrote in
:

James,

I appreciate your concerns but I think you have gotten some incorrect
information about the KISS. The KISS approach is to keep things
simple, maybe a bit too simple in some aspects. I'm currently working
on a controller that will solve some of the problems.

More comments below.

Doug
s/v Callista

"James" wrote in message
. ..
Thanks for teh reply Doug!

I have two concerns with the KISS Unit. I have been told that:

1) There is no slip ring, hence it can not rotate 360. You have to
watch to make sure it doesn't twist around and damage itself.

It is true that it does not have slip rings. This enhances
reliability. It is
not true that it cannot rotate through 360 degrees. It can rotate up
to 3 complete revolutions in either direction. The very heavy cable
just twists. A tortion spring limits the rotation to 3 turns. In the 3
years I have had mine it has never wound up more than 1 turn.

In other words, not for unattended operation.

Actually, the KISS is not intended for unattended operation even under
normal condition. There is no charge controller. Unattended operation
will lead to uvercharging and destroy you batteries or worse.

2) There are thermal breakers in it. When the wind really pipes up
and you shut down by shorting the unit as you are supposed to do, the
windings can get hot and pop the breakers.

I have never had this happen. When the unit is stopped by shorting the
windings, rotation is slowed almost to a stop. No chance to build up
much heat. I've had mine in up 50 mph winds and it spins at maybe 1/2
rps. I flipped to switch to stop it when winds were around 40 when the
thermal breakers started to activate. The mill came to a nice smooth
stop. I believe what you think are thermal breakers are actually
thermal switches that short that windings due to overspeed. They close
causing the mill to slow. I've have this happen several times. I can
not see any freewheeling possible except for in an actual failure
situation. But any mill has that possability.

My experience does not match Doug's. I've found that once a thermal
breaker opens that it's next to impossible to stop the unit. The other
2 thermal breakers should be at about the same temp and should be close
to opening. Shorting the remaining windings seems to produce more heat
than generating power does and this causes them to open too. Also, once
a thermal breaker opens this causes the blades to spin faster which
produces more power which creates more heat which causes the breakers to
open...

The only way that I've been able to shut it down is by doing so before
any of the thermal breakers open or by turning the generator 90 degrees
to the wind with a boat hook. I've had mixed results with that. See
http://www.geoffschultz.org/2004_Sai...S_Failure.html for
what happened one day when I tried this.

-- Geoff

Well, I was wrong (again). The thermal beakers are normally closed so
that means that when they get hot, they allow the mill to freewheel, but
only when all breakers go at the same time. On the rare occation that
mine have activated it seems that maybe only one actually activated.
It caused a bit of vibration for a few seconds but got my attention so
I shut it down.

Doug
s/v Callista

I'm curious how Air-X handles this situation.
"Doug Dotson" wrote in message
...
James,

I appreciate your concerns but I think you have gotten some incorrect
information about the KISS. The KISS approach is to keep things simple,
maybe a bit too simple in some aspects. I'm currently working on a
controller that will solve some of the problems.

More comments below.

Doug
s/v Callista

"James" wrote in message
. ..
Thanks for teh reply Doug!

I have two concerns with the KISS Unit. I have been told that:

1) There is no slip ring, hence it can not rotate 360. You have to watch
to make sure it doesn't twist around and damage itself.

It is true that it does not have slip rings. This enhances reliability. It
is
not true that it cannot rotate through 360 degrees. It can rotate up to 3
complete revolutions in either direction. The very heavy cable just
twists. A tortion spring limits the rotation to 3 turns. In the 3 years I
have had mine it has never wound up more than 1 turn.

In other words, not for unattended operation.

Actually, the KISS is not intended for unattended operation even under
normal condition. There is no charge controller. Unattended operation
will lead to uvercharging and destroy you batteries or worse.

2) There are thermal breakers in it. When the wind really pipes up and
you shut down by shorting the unit as you are supposed to do, the
windings can get hot and pop the breakers.

I have never had this happen. When the unit is stopped by shorting the
windings, rotation is slowed almost to a stop. No chance to build up
much heat. I've had mine in up 50 mph winds and it spins at maybe 1/2 rps.
I flipped to switch to stop it when winds were around 40 when the thermal
breakers started to activate. The mill came to a nice smooth stop. I
believe
what you think are thermal breakers are actually thermal switches that
short that windings due to overspeed. They close causing the mill to slow.
I've have this happen several times. I can not see any freewheeling
possible
except for in an actual failure situation. But any mill has that
possability.


Once they pop, the unit can freewheel at top speed with no load. Seems
dangerous.

As I said above, I don't think this can happen unless something like
the thermal switch fails and any mill is capable of a failure that could
lead to freewheeling. That is except for those that use mechanical
braking.

Jimmy


Doug Dotson wrote:
The new Air-X is definately quieter than the older ones. But the KISS
is much quieter than either and generates quite a bit more power.

Doug
s/v Callista

"James" wrote in message
...

I am looking at wind generators. According to the latest literature, the
Air-X marine wind generator is claimed to be 80% less noisy than the
(very loud and annoying in my opinion) older model, the Air Marine.

Can anyone offer any first hand experience with Air-X Marine wind
generator as compared to the old Air Marine one?

Also, does anyone have any recommendations for products in particular?
Real world experience is what I am looking for...the advertisign hype
isn't much use. Experience is.

Thanks

Jimmy

I spent 11 days at sea with an Air-X this spring.
The noise is tolerable, but the reduction is achieved at the expense of
power.
If my memory serves correctly, we got around 5.8 amperes close hauled in 18
to 20 knots apparrent.
It wasn't my boat and I don't have the log, but the above conditions
persisted for 5 days, so I am pretty certain about these numbers.
This was with a stern pole mount, about 12 feet above the water.


"James" wrote in message
...

I am looking at wind generators. According to the latest literature, the
Air-X marine wind generator is claimed to be 80% less noisy than the
(very loud and annoying in my opinion) older model, the Air Marine.

Can anyone offer any first hand experience with Air-X Marine wind
generator as compared to the old Air Marine one?

Also, does anyone have any recommendations for products in particular?
Real world experience is what I am looking for...the advertisign hype
isn't much use. Experience is.

Thanks

Jimmy

That's why I prefer the KISS. It puts out about 19A at 20 kts and
does so with very little noise.

Doug
s/v CAllista

"Steve Thomas" wrote in message
...
I spent 11 days at sea with an Air-X this spring.
The noise is tolerable, but the reduction is achieved at the expense of
power.
If my memory serves correctly, we got around 5.8 amperes close hauled in
18
to 20 knots apparrent.
It wasn't my boat and I don't have the log, but the above conditions
persisted for 5 days, so I am pretty certain about these numbers.
This was with a stern pole mount, about 12 feet above the water.


"James" wrote in message
...

I am looking at wind generators. According to the latest literature, the
Air-X marine wind generator is claimed to be 80% less noisy than the
(very loud and annoying in my opinion) older model, the Air Marine.

Can anyone offer any first hand experience with Air-X Marine wind
generator as compared to the old Air Marine one?

Also, does anyone have any recommendations for products in particular?
Real world experience is what I am looking for...the advertisign hype
isn't much use. Experience is.

Thanks

Jimmy