Wilbur Hubbard wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Mar 29, 9:50 am, wrote:
On 3/29/2011 9:38 AM, Mark Borgerson wrote:



In ,
says...
On Tue, 29 Mar 2011 07:47:23 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:
On Tue, 29 Mar 2011 08:21:00 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:
On Mon, 28 Mar 2011 21:35:39 -0700, "Lew Hodgett"
wrote:
26 ft sail boat capsizes in San Diego bay.
3 guesses what boat brand, first two don't count.
Hint: It's built in SoCal.
Lew
Here's a link to the story with all of the details:
http://www.10news.com/news/27351403/detail.html
Think they got the boat wrong. I think it's a Mac 25.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/03/28...n-diego-sailbo...
Pic of actual boat, with off-center cutout for OB.
*****Mac 25 cutout is on centerline.******
Cast iron swing keel, no water ballast.
Mac 26 is water ballast, centerboard.
--Vic
Correction: Mac 26 cutout is on centerline.
If it was a Mac 25, a key factor may be whether the swing keel
was raised or lowered. From my experience with a WindRose 18
with a swing keel, the position makes a big difference in
stability.
It also seems to me that 10 people is aobut 4 too many for
that size boat. You can't put them all in the cockpit
and you can't sail safely with novices forward of the
mast. I wonder if they even had 10 life jackets aboard.
Mark Borgerson
It seems like a repeat of the incident in the east (New York?) about a
decade ago. 10 people in the cockpit of a sailboat like the MacGregor
built boats is a perfect set up for an accident.

As the song goes "When will they ever learn.", but since history is
considered unimportant, they never will.
::
:: 10 people? What were they thinking? Witnesses say the board was up
:: giving her no stability. Blaming MaCgregor for this is stupid. This
:: would be like putting 6 people on a Catalina 22 in 25 kt wind with
:: oversized sails and expecting it work out well.


There is a water ballast tank that should have been filled but probably
wasn't. Those Mac26's won't get up on plane unless the water ballast tank is
emptied and sometimes people forget to fill the darned thing again before
they raise the sails. I've seen a couple of those things at anchor with
empty ballast tank. A stiff wind of about 30 knots blowing on the bare mast
and rigging heels them about 20 degrees. It's sad to call the darned things
a sailboat. They are a more of a motor boat with auxiliary sails.

Wilbur Hubbard





They're as ****-poor a motorboat as they are a sailboat.

On Mar 29, 3:37*pm, Harryk wrote:
Wilbur Hubbard wrote:
*wrote in message
...
On Mar 29, 9:50 am, *wrote:
On 3/29/2011 9:38 AM, Mark Borgerson wrote:

In ,
says...
On Tue, 29 Mar 2011 07:47:23 -0500, Vic Smith
*wrote:
On Tue, 29 Mar 2011 08:21:00 -0400, Wayne.B
*wrote:
On Mon, 28 Mar 2011 21:35:39 -0700, "Lew Hodgett"
*wrote:
26 ft sail boat capsizes in San Diego bay.
3 guesses what boat brand, first two don't count.
Hint: It's built in SoCal.
Lew
Here's a link to the story with all of the details:
http://www.10news.com/news/27351403/detail.html
Think they got the boat wrong. I think it's a Mac 25.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/03/28...n-diego-sailbo...
Pic of actual boat, with off-center cutout for OB.
*****Mac 25 cutout is on centerline.******
Cast iron swing keel, no water ballast.
Mac 26 is water ballast, centerboard.
--Vic
Correction: Mac 26 cutout is on centerline.
If it was a Mac 25, a key factor may be whether the swing keel
was raised or lowered. From my experience with a WindRose 18
with a swing keel, the position makes a big difference in
stability.
It also seems to me that 10 people is aobut 4 too many for
that size boat. You can't put them all in the cockpit
and you can't sail safely with novices forward of the
mast. I wonder if they even had 10 life jackets aboard.
Mark Borgerson
It seems like a repeat of the incident in the east (New York?) about a
decade ago. 10 people in the cockpit of a sailboat like the MacGregor
built boats is a perfect set up for an accident.

As the song goes "When will they ever learn.", but since history is
considered unimportant, they never will.
::
:: 10 people? *What were they thinking? *Witnesses say the board was up
:: giving her no stability. *Blaming MaCgregor for this is stupid. *This
:: would be like putting 6 people on a Catalina 22 in 25 kt wind with
:: oversized sails and expecting it work out well.

There is a water ballast tank that should have been filled but probably
wasn't. Those Mac26's won't get up on plane unless the water ballast tank is
emptied and sometimes people forget to fill the darned thing again before
they raise the sails. I've seen a couple of those things at anchor with
empty ballast tank. A stiff wind of about 30 knots blowing on the bare mast
and rigging heels them about 20 degrees. It's sad to call the darned things
a sailboat. They are a more of a motor boat with auxiliary sails.

Wilbur Hubbard

They're as ****-poor a motorboat as they are a sailboat.

I think the Mac26 makes sense for many people and I will argue that it
is safer than most sailboats. If weather, gets bad, it can reach
harbor before others. With its extreme shoal draft, it can get to
safety in places others cannot. So far, all the accidents we have
seen with Mac26s are due to operator error and not due to QC
problems. Even WITH the ballast, only a fool would put 10 people on
that boat.

On Tue, 29 Mar 2011 18:09:52 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch
wrote:

On Mar 29, 3:37Â*pm, Harryk wrote:


They're as ****-poor a motorboat as they are a sailboat.

I think the Mac26 makes sense for many people and I will argue that it
is safer than most sailboats. If weather, gets bad, it can reach
harbor before others. With its extreme shoal draft, it can get to
safety in places others cannot. So far, all the accidents we have
seen with Mac26s are due to operator error and not due to QC
problems. Even WITH the ballast, only a fool would put 10 people on
that boat.

Yep. It's safer than most sailboats. Even without the option to
power it in if weather does the unexpected, it doesn't sink.
Positive floatation.
Won't sink like a keel sailboat boat or most motorboats if holed or
capsized.
I think Neal stuffed empty Maalox jugs all over his Coronado to try
make it mimic a Mac26 in this regard.
Harry might do that with his powerboat to make it unsinkable.
The Mac26 is easily beached, as you said.
The fact that it's inexpensive, spartan and doesn't sail as well as a
keel boat bothers some people.
So they spout off all the time saying it isn't safe.
This lends itself to Mac26 owners being more cautious than typical
sailboat sailors.
So that too makes the Mac26 a safer boat.
But they commonly cross the Gulf Stream and ply the Bahamas.
Some pay no heed to the naysayers.
Lots of bang for the buck with that boat.
Trailerable, lightweight, yet plenty of space.
Very customizable too. Can make it sail much better than stock.
You know more than most here about shallow water sailing, getting
stuck on a bar when the tide seems to be disagreeable, etc.
So it's a wonder you don't have one of these Mac26's.
As I recall you have an S28(?) and a home built Tolman.
The Mac26 could get you down to one boat you could nest by the garage
when you're not out boating.
If I ever get to live in Florida it'll be a Mac26 if I decide to do
overnighters or a Carolina Skiff if I decide to just day fish.
Talking about the Gulf coast.
I'll leave the "bluewater" stuff to others.

--Vic

On Wed, 30 Mar 2011 11:19:25 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

If I ever get to live in Florida it'll be a Mac26 if I decide to do
overnighters or a Carolina Skiff if I decide to just day fish.
Talking about the Gulf coast.

I think the Mac26 is OK if operated within its limits - not
overloaded, always with water ballast in place, and always with a good
chance of being quickly rescued. The manufacturer needs to do more to
raise safety awareness and stop selling the boat to inexperienced
people who want to believe it can go anywhere. I would not want to be
caught on open water in a thunder squall with a Mac26 but that is also
true for a number of other sailboats in that size range.

On Wed, 30 Mar 2011 12:33:33 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Wed, 30 Mar 2011 11:19:25 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

If I ever get to live in Florida it'll be a Mac26 if I decide to do
overnighters or a Carolina Skiff if I decide to just day fish.
Talking about the Gulf coast.

I think the Mac26 is OK if operated within its limits - not
overloaded, always with water ballast in place, and always with a good
chance of being quickly rescued. The manufacturer needs to do more to
raise safety awareness and stop selling the boat to inexperienced
people who want to believe it can go anywhere. I would not want to be
caught on open water in a thunder squall with a Mac26 but that is also
true for a number of other sailboats in that size range.

"Good chance of being quickly rescued"?
hehe. Gimme a break.
From my reading if not under sail or overloaded topside an unballasted
Mac26 is as unlikely to capsize as a typical boat, but of course more
likely than a keeled sailboat.
Many of the owners don't ballast when motoring.
Of course they don't load up with 10 people either.
All boats have their own dangers.
I know if the sea got dicey I'd rather be in a ballasted Mac26 than a
24' Carolina Skiff.
But I'm not about to challenge the sea anyway, and intend to boat in
fair weather only.
Wouldn't worry about being unballasted in a Mac26 just puttering
around on a calm day in Charlotte harbor looking for fish.
But what I really want is an F-27 (-:
Doing any fishing off your dock?
Got the fishing bug at all?
My sister caught a real nice sheepshead and some redfish on the canal
in Punta Gorda a couple weeks ago, and hooked something really big
that broke her line.
Pic of sheepshead upon request.

--Vic

On Wed, 30 Mar 2011 13:05:32 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

I think the Mac26 is OK if operated within its limits - not
overloaded, always with water ballast in place, and always with a good
chance of being quickly rescued. The manufacturer needs to do more to
raise safety awareness and stop selling the boat to inexperienced
people who want to believe it can go anywhere. I would not want to be
caught on open water in a thunder squall with a Mac26 but that is also
true for a number of other sailboats in that size range.

"Good chance of being quickly rescued"?
hehe. Gimme a break.

That was my way of saying "well within sight of land and
civilization".

From my reading if not under sail or overloaded topside an unballasted
Mac26 is as unlikely to capsize as a typical boat, but of course more
likely than a keeled sailboat.

Capsize is a serious risk on any boat but just as many people are lost
due to "knock downs" under sail which throws them into the water.
That can happen to any boat but is much easier with light or no
ballast.

Many of the owners don't ballast when motoring.

That's a big mistake in my opinion. I believe some unballasted
Mac26s have capsized at anchor.

Of course they don't load up with 10 people either.
All boats have their own dangers.
I know if the sea got dicey I'd rather be in a ballasted Mac26 than a
24' Carolina Skiff.
But I'm not about to challenge the sea anyway, and intend to boat in
fair weather only.

The problem is with sudden changes in conditions. It happens.

Wouldn't worry about being unballasted in a Mac26 just puttering
around on a calm day in Charlotte harbor looking for fish.
But what I really want is an F-27 (-:

F-27s are very cool.

Doing any fishing off your dock?
Got the fishing bug at all?
My sister caught a real nice sheepshead and some redfish on the canal
in Punta Gorda a couple weeks ago, and hooked something really big
that broke her line.
Pic of sheepshead upon request.

Sure, send away.

Something big was under my dock the other day judging from the
commotion. Haven't done any fishing since January however, and
haven't done any catching since last summer in the Bahamas.

People have been catching red fish locally and we'll probably start
seeing some Tarpon soon.

Frogwatch wrote:

The guy I know who crossed from Fort Lauderdale to MArsh harbor ina
Mac26 has it set up more luxurious than my house. He has a LArge
screen TV aboard ( I dont even have a small screen tv at home), AC,
stereo, stove hot water shower, microwave, memory foam matress, etc,
etc. Amazing the stuff he put aboard. Oh, a wind generator and solar
too.

And he really thinks these will prevent her from capsizing ?

B.

On Fri, 1 Apr 2011 09:45:33 +0000, (Barnabé) wrote:

Frogwatch wrote:

The guy I know who crossed from Fort Lauderdale to MArsh harbor ina
Mac26 has it set up more luxurious than my house. He has a LArge
screen TV aboard ( I dont even have a small screen tv at home), AC,
stereo, stove hot water shower, microwave, memory foam matress, etc,
etc. Amazing the stuff he put aboard. Oh, a wind generator and solar
too.

And he really thinks these will prevent her from capsizing ?


Ballast (-:
These boats don't capsize if the water ballast is taken care of.
They can get knocked down like any sailboat but won't turtle if
ballasted. Mast is foam-filled too.
I wouldn't think of putting a TV on a boat, but the Max 26 is highly
customizable.
There's a guy called Madmike Dunn with a 26 X that has all kinds of
stuff installed, including A/C, watermaker, 2k generator, wind and
solar power, 3 OB motors, dinghy, etc,etc.
When trekking kept only potable water in his ballast tank with a pump
system I think.
He's also changed the running gear, centerboard, rudders, mast, and
who knows what else.
He's a former "expedition leader" and a veritable legend on the
MacGregor forum.
Think he's a VP at North Sails now.
Taken his Mac all over the place sailing from the Arctic to S.
America, into the interior on the Amazon, etc.
Hove to on a sea anchor in heavy seas, the whole nine yards.
Not sure of the whole story, but he's posted many of his mods on the
MacGregor forum.
He's said the boat can never be a good sailer, but can be greatly
improved.
Don't know why he chose the Mac 26, but I guess because the shell
and basic design suited his purposes.
Good shell and shallow draft is the big deal I think.
Haven't been in one myself, but would like to take a look.

--Vic

"Joe" wrote in message
...
snip

Simply brilliant...Tis that why you stow the bucket in your bildge?


LOL! Did you flunk out of the same sixth grade class as Bruce? Try 'bilge.'

Real sailors can spell nautical words.


Wilbur Hubbard

On Fri, 01 Apr 2011 09:59:43 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

Taken his Mac all over the place sailing from the Arctic to S.
America, into the interior on the Amazon, etc.
Hove to on a sea anchor in heavy seas, the whole nine yards.
Not sure of the whole story, but he's posted many of his mods on the
MacGregor forum.

Madmike ehhh? Wonder how he got that name. :-)