ooops, quoted the wrong thing, it is late. Here is the way PC
introduced himself to this thread::

SNIPIf you want to make the issue an interesting one, sketch a river
boat and
omit the old crafts or make a fool out of those who caturly can build
a
boat, join up with the useal crowd of jokers and make usenet what it
alway's
was made for, throwing dirt and in particular in a way where you can
laugh
the bottom out your pans ,without knowing a clue about the issue.

P.C.
ENDSNIP

This is typical of his arrogant diatribe, with no basis in fact...

On Wed, 17 Mar 2004 11:12:25 +0100, "P.C."
vaguely proposed a theory
.......and in reply I say!:
remove ns from my header address to reply via email

PC. Do you have _pictures_ (not "PC" generated images) of boats using
your methods?

But this is not the issue in this fora, experience about unfolded panels can
be found as early as Cyber-Boat, where you will se a few composite projects
done in real and not just for the fancy project but for the exiting options
that computers offer.


************************************************** ** sorry

..........no I'm not!
remove ns from my header address to reply via email

Does Bill Gates dream of electronic sheep?

Hi

"Old Nick" skrev i en meddelelse
news
On Wed, 17 Mar 2004 11:12:25 +0100, "P.C."
vaguely proposed a theory
......and in reply I say!:
remove ns from my header address to reply via email

PC. Do you have _pictures_ (not "PC" generated images) of boats using
your methods?


Plenty , ------- you find a lot on the old Cyber-Boat site, acturly
Cyber-Boat was the first to interduce the idear of unfolded panels done with
unfolding software and many boats been build .
But in this group, a lot of flatbotom boat fanatics will rather have
amatures to project a fantasy boat , and you can soon se how this group is
used to shrow dirt on the old tradisional boatbuilding craft.
You se when you read hatefull mails about Cyber-Boat, you must remember that
Cyber-Boat do not provide flat bottomed boats, and this fact some old dryass
use to earn money making this group into a hate place against the original
tradisional small woodboating carafs -------- I am acturly a boatbiolder and
acturly teached apprentish in the arts of CAD, but I fully understand the
ones who make money on what they can, and that they use hate against anyone
offering somthing better and genuine, ------- and free .
Check out the old Cyber-Boat site, and you know why ;

http://w1.1396.telia.com/~u139600113/

A few jokers and dryasses don't like what they se, and think that dirt and
foul words can replace good craftmanship, ------- I make it up to be your
choice, do you want bad designs and fiddeling craftmanship with nasty words
it's your choice, I offer another choice and I do not make any money on it.

P.C.
http://home20.inet.tele.dk/h-3d/

On Thu, 18 Mar 2004 13:50:19 +0100, "P.C."
vaguely proposed a theory
.......and in reply I say!:
remove ns from my header address to reply via email

Hi

"Old Nick" skrev i en meddelelse
news
On Wed, 17 Mar 2004 11:12:25 +0100, "P.C."
vaguely proposed a theory
......and in reply I say!:
remove ns from my header address to reply via email

PC. Do you have _pictures_ (not "PC" generated images) of boats using
your methods?


Plenty , ------- you find a lot on the old Cyber-Boat site, acturly
Cyber-Boat was the first to interduce the idear of unfolded panels done with
unfolding software and many boats been build .

So why not now? Include them _with_ the popular versions surely? What
sort of boats? Why are there no places where they can be seen as
photos?


************************************************** ** sorry

..........no I'm not!
remove ns from my header address to reply via email

Does Bill Gates dream of electronic sheep?

There was an article in this month's issue of Epoxyworks sent out by
Gougeon Bros. about adhesion of epoxy to various metals.
I don't have the article in front of me but I seem to remember that
Aluminum had the lowest adhesion strength of all the metals tested.
You can contact them and they will send a free subscription to you (I
think) if you don't get it already.
My guess is that epoxy would not work for this because of the expansion
of the metal and the oxide problem mentioned. I could be wrong.

Brian D wrote:
Awhile back, there was a thread concerning stitch-n-glue using aluminum
rather than plywood. Although I do not believe it could be a high enough
quality solution to boat building, having a hard time believing in the
reliability of the epoxy bond and believing that welding is just as easy if
not easier, it is an interesting topic that I'd like to read about.

Meindert, and maybe others (?), mentioned knowing of aluminum/epoxy projects
going on. Does anybody have a link on the web that I can go check out? The
only link I had before is long gone, or at least I can't find it ...anyone?
Have you seen any of this on the web?

Thanks,
Brian

Hi

"steveJ" skrev i en meddelelse
...
There was an article in this month's issue of Epoxyworks sent out by
Gougeon Bros. about adhesion of epoxy to various metals.
I don't have the article in front of me but I seem to remember that
Aluminum had the lowest adhesion strength of all the metals tested.
You can contact them and they will send a free subscription to you (I
think) if you don't get it already.
My guess is that epoxy would not work for this because of the expansion
of the metal and the oxide problem mentioned. I could be wrong.

No , -------- but there are several other way's to make Alu go together
beside designing the hull so it don't even matter if the water enter
inbetween the two hulls forming the inner and outher hull , ------- esp. if
the space inbetween is foam filled or filled with a mix of emty polystyrene
bottles and foam.
Sicaflex , even a foul word in this group , oposed allmighty epoxy, is
acturly a relevant choice, offering a glue that last decades at the same
time not being as hard as the epoxy.
Beside when you need to be an aircarft engineer to make an amature design go
together , I don't think special coating shuld be the issue. Esp. when the
halve problem is a design issue .
Beside there are plenty of way's , like the Alu solder that can be found
with Google , rivets that surely ask a bit craftman but go in many different
types.

Check the design "Dizzie" at the old Cyber-Boat site, ------- top plank is
Alu that I had to weld to lenghten , but that is simply copper rivited onto
the tradisional lapstrake planking, beside when you check that design, check
the detail about both front and aft end made in Alu, ready to bolt planks
onto so you can build a well documented design being an amature.

Still the Alu ends are expensive, so with Cyber-Boat I made a special
"sandwich pattern" that help the builder by offering a very smart template
for the mirrors of a pram or dinghie, -------- beside the full-scale
unfolded planks that is.
http://w1.1396.telia.com/~u139600113/

P.C.

"Brian D" ha scritto nel messaggio
newsbR5c.27221$JL2.316008@attbi_s03...
Awhile back, there was a thread concerning stitch-n-glue using aluminum
rather than plywood. Although I do not believe it could be a high enough
quality solution to boat building,
........

It looks that the flame with P.C. have changed the course of the thread from
the original subject...
I am still interested on it (I mean to the original subject....).
Any more info?


Paolo

P.S For P.C.: I WILL NOT REPLAY to any comments, flame or anything else
from you.
You have been associated to my killfile.

I've had good luck with epoxy on aluminum in non-structural applications:
Wet-sand the aluminum - keeping a film of resin on the sander and the
surface. You then can mix the epoxy at your convenience, and work it into
the rough, wet aluminum. Your grinder / sander gets a bit messy, but the
unmixed resin cleans up OK with acetone. I did this, adhering "skid plates"
to the bottom of a wood/epoxy hull. A couple years hard use, and still
firmly attached.

I have NOT had success with 3M 5200; the manufacturer refused to supply info
on surface prep, saying they don't teach people how to build boats... Wood
gunwales applied to an aluminum hull peeled right off, but only prep was a
light sanding.

As to "stitch and glue", I'd be inclined to "stitch and weld" with aluminum.
I did a dory (Bolger Teal) as a test of concept, and it's completely
indestructible and maintenance free. A bit heavy (1/8 aluminum weighs
about the same as unfinished 3/4" ply) but tough.



"Paolo Zini" wrote in message
...

"Brian D" ha scritto nel messaggio
newsbR5c.27221$JL2.316008@attbi_s03...
Awhile back, there was a thread concerning stitch-n-glue using aluminum
rather than plywood. Although I do not believe it could be a high
enough
quality solution to boat building,
.......

It looks that the flame with P.C. have changed the course of the thread
from
the original subject...
I am still interested on it (I mean to the original subject....).
Any more info?

I've had good luck with epoxy on aluminum in non-structural applications:
Wet-sand the aluminum - keeping a film of resin on the sander and the
surface. You then can mix the epoxy at your convenience, and work it into
the rough, wet aluminum. Your grinder / sander gets a bit messy, but the
unmixed resin cleans up OK with acetone. I did this, adhering "skid
plates"
to the bottom of a wood/epoxy hull. A couple years hard use, and still
firmly attached.

Great! I have read about your method, but yours is the first info about it's
succesful use.
You don't consider your application as structural, but is anyway one hard
test!


I have NOT had success with 3M 5200; the manufacturer refused to supply
info
on surface prep, saying they don't teach people how to build boats...
Wood

Also this is one valuable info.

Paolo

Great! I have read about your method, but yours is the first info about it's
succesful use.
You don't consider your application as structural, but is anyway one hard
test!


I have NOT had success with 3M 5200; the manufacturer refused to supply
info
on surface prep, saying they don't teach people how to build boats...
Wood

Also this is one valuable info.

Paolo

Funny, I had the same reaction from 3M when I asked them about using
the product for boats several years ago. I had not used it before
then, and have not had need since .
Scotty