"Bruce In Bangkok" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 01 Oct 2009 20:21:28 -0500, cavelamb
wrote:

Bruce In Bangkok wrote:
On Thu, 1 Oct 2009 22:39:02 +0200, "Steve Lusardi"
wrote:

Bruce,
In 2006 I helped install a new bridge on a super yacht in Italy. No
fasteners were allowed to show anywhere, which is actually
quite a feat, but the most interesting observation I made was the
method to install the overhead.

It was constructed of 6" wide 1/4" plywood strips tapered slightly on
the edges and on both sides square plates about 1.5 by 2.5
inches were screwed to the back side of strip with 24" spacing. These
thin sheet metal plates were offset from strip to strip by a
little over one plate width. These plates were positioned 1/2 on the
strip and 1/2 off the strip. These were installed on thin
lathing fastened overhead with screws in sequence, one side to the
other, in the following manner. The first strip had glued to
the outboard edge a strip of industrial 3M plastic "Velcro", which made
contact with a corresponding strip on the lathing strip.
The other side was then screwed to the lathe. The next strip's
protruding plates were slipped under the just installed strip
between the lathe and that strip. On the opposite edge of the second
plank, the plates were screwed to its lathe and so on across
the overhead until the last strip was installed and there, just like
the first plank, was fastened with "Velcro" on its outboard
edge. No fastener showed. The overhead strips were very secure and
easily removed for maintenance purpose, if required. Of course
these strips were first fitted, then removed, sanded smooth and
finished in a spray booth with a flat white color before final
fitting. No grain or fastener showed anywhere. It was truly exquisite.
Steve


Thanks for information. This boat is a smallish 35 ' power boat that I
am refurbishing. The hull is essentially a fiberglass shell with a
encapsulated wooden frame. In addition there is a 1/2" - 3/4"
encapsulated reinforcement around each port to stiffen the cabin sides
in that area. This results in a rather "lumpy" interior which I plan
to hide.

As the motif is workboat all lighting and much of the wiring will be
run on the surface of the interior, in conduit or wire molding, so the
idea is to line the boat with 3mm ply surfaced with veneer or formica,
depending on the area.

I can bond a tee shaped strip to the hull and mount ceiling panels by
popping them under the tee but thought why not just glue the panels
in, directly to the hull.

Another poster tells me that he has used liquid nails and it doesn't
fall off so I think I'll go with that method. If worse comes to worst
and it does fall off there is always 3M 5200 - but that is a costly
method of attaching essentially decorative panels.


Lightweight paneling like that should work quite well just glued in.

Liquid Nail needs an air supply to dry it.
Trapping large amounts may cause it to take quite a bit longer to dry.

Other than that? Go for it!

Can you expand on the "need air". I thought it was used to put up wall
paneling and such like in houses. From the instructions on the tube
they say just smear on a bunch and push it in place. Good bond in a
day, full adhesion in 48 hours (I think). $2.50 a tube, or there
about.

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

There are a lot of Liquid Nails products, Bruce. They make a tub/shower
surround material that's supposed to be much better for water exposure.

Take a look at their tech data and MSDS sheets:

http://www.klenks.com/products/info.jsp?type=msdsSheets

--
Ed Huntress

On Fri, 2 Oct 2009 11:16:43 -0400, tiny
wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Thu, 1 Oct 2009 09:54:39 -0400, "mmc" wrote:


"Bruce In Bangkok" wrote in message
.. .

Has anyone tried this construction adhesive - liquid nails, I believe
is one brand, for installing the ceiling inside a boat?

Generally the ceiling is just 1/8" or 1/4" plywood with some sort of
decorative covering that is used for a liner inside the boat. Covers
imperfections in the hull, screws, wiring and all the other stuff you
don't want to look at. On some boats it is simply shoved in behind
molding or put on with screws directly into the fiberglass.

I am considering gluing the ceiling in with something and came across
this stuff in the hardware shop, apparently used to install some sorts
of paneling in houses.

Any comments, pro or con?

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

Bruce,
I've used it to glue solid wood to painted stucco (house numbers, military
specialty insignia) and the letters of our store name made out of thin
plywood to painted stucco. The wood to painted stucco have survived multiple
hurricanes and years of rains.
My wife uses it anywhere duct tape "just won't do".
You'd need to brace the ceilings in place while the glue dries and as long
the surfaces are clean and dry it should work.

Thanks for info. While, at the moment, I do not believe that I should
have to remove the ceiling, if I should how hard is it to remove
something that is attached using liquid nails? I assume that it would
be similar to something attached with Sikaflex or 3M 5200; difficult,
but possible.

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)
try a couple of pieces of wood and some liquid nails and cure it. Then
put it in water. IIRC it will turn to a soft white goo in a day or
three... It's been a while though, might be a waterproof type I don't
know about.
Scotty from SmallBoats.com

Ah! Ha! Just the sort of information I am looking for. I shall do an
immersion test and see what happens. Thanks much.

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

On Fri, 2 Oct 2009 12:19:45 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:


"Bruce In Bangkok" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 01 Oct 2009 20:21:28 -0500, cavelamb
wrote:

Bruce In Bangkok wrote:
On Thu, 1 Oct 2009 22:39:02 +0200, "Steve Lusardi"
wrote:

Bruce,
In 2006 I helped install a new bridge on a super yacht in Italy. No
fasteners were allowed to show anywhere, which is actually
quite a feat, but the most interesting observation I made was the
method to install the overhead.

It was constructed of 6" wide 1/4" plywood strips tapered slightly on
the edges and on both sides square plates about 1.5 by 2.5
inches were screwed to the back side of strip with 24" spacing. These
thin sheet metal plates were offset from strip to strip by a
little over one plate width. These plates were positioned 1/2 on the
strip and 1/2 off the strip. These were installed on thin
lathing fastened overhead with screws in sequence, one side to the
other, in the following manner. The first strip had glued to
the outboard edge a strip of industrial 3M plastic "Velcro", which made
contact with a corresponding strip on the lathing strip.
The other side was then screwed to the lathe. The next strip's
protruding plates were slipped under the just installed strip
between the lathe and that strip. On the opposite edge of the second
plank, the plates were screwed to its lathe and so on across
the overhead until the last strip was installed and there, just like
the first plank, was fastened with "Velcro" on its outboard
edge. No fastener showed. The overhead strips were very secure and
easily removed for maintenance purpose, if required. Of course
these strips were first fitted, then removed, sanded smooth and
finished in a spray booth with a flat white color before final
fitting. No grain or fastener showed anywhere. It was truly exquisite.
Steve


Thanks for information. This boat is a smallish 35 ' power boat that I
am refurbishing. The hull is essentially a fiberglass shell with a
encapsulated wooden frame. In addition there is a 1/2" - 3/4"
encapsulated reinforcement around each port to stiffen the cabin sides
in that area. This results in a rather "lumpy" interior which I plan
to hide.

As the motif is workboat all lighting and much of the wiring will be
run on the surface of the interior, in conduit or wire molding, so the
idea is to line the boat with 3mm ply surfaced with veneer or formica,
depending on the area.

I can bond a tee shaped strip to the hull and mount ceiling panels by
popping them under the tee but thought why not just glue the panels
in, directly to the hull.

Another poster tells me that he has used liquid nails and it doesn't
fall off so I think I'll go with that method. If worse comes to worst
and it does fall off there is always 3M 5200 - but that is a costly
method of attaching essentially decorative panels.


Lightweight paneling like that should work quite well just glued in.

Liquid Nail needs an air supply to dry it.
Trapping large amounts may cause it to take quite a bit longer to dry.

Other than that? Go for it!

Can you expand on the "need air". I thought it was used to put up wall
paneling and such like in houses. From the instructions on the tube
they say just smear on a bunch and push it in place. Good bond in a
day, full adhesion in 48 hours (I think). $2.50 a tube, or there
about.

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

There are a lot of Liquid Nails products, Bruce. They make a tub/shower
surround material that's supposed to be much better for water exposure.

Take a look at their tech data and MSDS sheets:

http://www.klenks.com/products/info.jsp?type=msdsSheets

Actually I was using "Liquid Nails" as a generic term as I'm not sure
exactly what or where the stuff that Home Pro is selling here is. Now
that I know that the stuff is at least semi-usable I will delve deeper
into who, what, when, where and why.

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

Bruce In Bangkok wrote:

Can you expand on the "need air". I thought it was used to put up wall
paneling and such like in houses. From the instructions on the tube
they say just smear on a bunch and push it in place. Good bond in a
day, full adhesion in 48 hours (I think). $2.50 a tube, or there
about.

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

Hi Bruce,

What I meant is that these adhesives need an air source to dry out.

It's not a chemical reaction (like a two part mix?), but a simple
outgassing of the solvents used.

Almost all single part tubes are that way.

Like Ed said, try some different ones on samples to find what will
work best for your stuff. They are cheap enough.

Richard

Bruce In Bangkok wrote:
On Fri, 2 Oct 2009 12:19:45 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:

"Bruce In Bangkok" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 01 Oct 2009 20:21:28 -0500, cavelamb
wrote:

Bruce In Bangkok wrote:
On Thu, 1 Oct 2009 22:39:02 +0200, "Steve Lusardi"
wrote:

Bruce,
In 2006 I helped install a new bridge on a super yacht in Italy. No
fasteners were allowed to show anywhere, which is actually
quite a feat, but the most interesting observation I made was the
method to install the overhead.

It was constructed of 6" wide 1/4" plywood strips tapered slightly on
the edges and on both sides square plates about 1.5 by 2.5
inches were screwed to the back side of strip with 24" spacing. These
thin sheet metal plates were offset from strip to strip by a
little over one plate width. These plates were positioned 1/2 on the
strip and 1/2 off the strip. These were installed on thin
lathing fastened overhead with screws in sequence, one side to the
other, in the following manner. The first strip had glued to
the outboard edge a strip of industrial 3M plastic "Velcro", which made
contact with a corresponding strip on the lathing strip.
The other side was then screwed to the lathe. The next strip's
protruding plates were slipped under the just installed strip
between the lathe and that strip. On the opposite edge of the second
plank, the plates were screwed to its lathe and so on across
the overhead until the last strip was installed and there, just like
the first plank, was fastened with "Velcro" on its outboard
edge. No fastener showed. The overhead strips were very secure and
easily removed for maintenance purpose, if required. Of course
these strips were first fitted, then removed, sanded smooth and
finished in a spray booth with a flat white color before final
fitting. No grain or fastener showed anywhere. It was truly exquisite.
Steve

Thanks for information. This boat is a smallish 35 ' power boat that I
am refurbishing. The hull is essentially a fiberglass shell with a
encapsulated wooden frame. In addition there is a 1/2" - 3/4"
encapsulated reinforcement around each port to stiffen the cabin sides
in that area. This results in a rather "lumpy" interior which I plan
to hide.

As the motif is workboat all lighting and much of the wiring will be
run on the surface of the interior, in conduit or wire molding, so the
idea is to line the boat with 3mm ply surfaced with veneer or formica,
depending on the area.

I can bond a tee shaped strip to the hull and mount ceiling panels by
popping them under the tee but thought why not just glue the panels
in, directly to the hull.

Another poster tells me that he has used liquid nails and it doesn't
fall off so I think I'll go with that method. If worse comes to worst
and it does fall off there is always 3M 5200 - but that is a costly
method of attaching essentially decorative panels.

Lightweight paneling like that should work quite well just glued in.

Liquid Nail needs an air supply to dry it.
Trapping large amounts may cause it to take quite a bit longer to dry.

Other than that? Go for it!
Can you expand on the "need air". I thought it was used to put up wall
paneling and such like in houses. From the instructions on the tube
they say just smear on a bunch and push it in place. Good bond in a
day, full adhesion in 48 hours (I think). $2.50 a tube, or there
about.

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)
There are a lot of Liquid Nails products, Bruce. They make a tub/shower
surround material that's supposed to be much better for water exposure.

Take a look at their tech data and MSDS sheets:

http://www.klenks.com/products/info.jsp?type=msdsSheets

Actually I was using "Liquid Nails" as a generic term as I'm not sure
exactly what or where the stuff that Home Pro is selling here is. Now
that I know that the stuff is at least semi-usable I will delve deeper
into who, what, when, where and why.

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)


In that case, I would highly recommend PL-1 brands.

I've used it to make fuel tanks (test only - never had the guts to fly one).
Bu etching aluminum and priming it, the adhesive reacts with the primer and
gets a really good bite. Fuel proof (for av gas, but I won't claim that for
mogas or diesel. Too many solvents mixed in)

On Fri, 02 Oct 2009 21:00:55 -0500, cavelamb
wrote:

Bruce In Bangkok wrote:

Can you expand on the "need air". I thought it was used to put up wall
paneling and such like in houses. From the instructions on the tube
they say just smear on a bunch and push it in place. Good bond in a
day, full adhesion in 48 hours (I think). $2.50 a tube, or there
about.

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

Hi Bruce,

What I meant is that these adhesives need an air source to dry out.

It's not a chemical reaction (like a two part mix?), but a simple
outgassing of the solvents used.

Almost all single part tubes are that way.

Like Ed said, try some different ones on samples to find what will
work best for your stuff. They are cheap enough.

Richard

Ah, I see. As I'm not sure exactly what I can buy here in Thailand - I
checked the Liquid Nails web site and they make more adhesive then
Sika. some of it recommended for exterior use and some not. I'll have
a look tomorrow or Monday and see exactly what I can get here. Sika
adhesive, for example, is NOT available however Sika sealant is...

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

cavelamb wrote:

What I meant is that these adhesives need an air source to dry out.

It's not a chemical reaction (like a two part mix?), but a simple
outgassing of the solvents used.

Almost all single part tubes are that way.

Like Ed said, try some different ones on samples to find what will
work best for your stuff. They are cheap enough.

Richard

Bruce In Bangkok wrote:
Ah, I see. As I'm not sure exactly what I can buy here in Thailand - I
checked the Liquid Nails web site and they make more adhesive then
Sika. some of it recommended for exterior use and some not. I'll have
a look tomorrow or Monday and see exactly what I can get here. Sika
adhesive, for example, is NOT available however Sika sealant is...

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

Our engine box is just inside the hatch and next to the galley it sees
significant amounts of water and of course it also gets fairly hot. It
is also the top step/navigators seat so gets heavy loads on it. The
wooden lid had split at all the joints and was sagging badly. It was so
bad it was hitting the engine's rocker cover and the vibration would
numb your arse. ;-(

It was also well impregnated with salt crystals, soot, engine oil and
diesel so wasn't going to be an easy repair. I was planning a new lid
at the end of the season but it more or less disintegrated on me so I
had to do *SOMETHING*. Unfortunately we were due to sail at dawn the
next morning and it was all ready after tea.

I knew it would have to be a quick and dirty job so looked in nearby
skips, hoping there was some shuttering ply or old hording like I'd seen
the previous week but no joy so I went to the nearest hardware store and
got a tube of Evo-Stick Wet Grab adhesive:

http://www.bostik.co.uk/diy/product/evo-stik/serious-stuff-wet-grab

just before they closed and scavenged some thin scrap exterior ply from
a skip on the way back (1/8" IIRC) while my crew scrubbed the pieces
with hot soapy water to get the worst of the contamination off. When I
got back, I cut the ply to shape while my crew scraped down the joints
to remove the old failed glue, and roughed up the remaining varnish on
the underside.

I then wiped off with thinners and glued the pieces edge to edge with a
couple of gripfasts to hold them in place then screwed and glued the ply
to the underside. I was pretty generous with the glue as I reckoned I
couldn't afford to have any dry spots. After scraping up the excess, I
brushed on a single coat of Owatrol on the exposed face of the ply to at
least somewhat seal it and put it in place with a plank across the top
so we wouldn't break it before the glue had a chance to set.

We sailed in the morning, with my fingers crossed that it would last the
fortnight, removed the plank at lunchtime as the glue seemed pretty well
set and carried on with our passage. 400 NM later I was fairly
confident it would last for the rally I was heading for. Over two years
later, its holding up extremely well with absolutely no signs of
trouble. The underside has been sanded smooth and had a few more coats
of Owatrol to keep it sealed and easy to clean, but that's the only
attention its needed and a new lid for the box is so far down the winter
list, I haven't even thought about it till you mentioned using
construction adhesives. :-)

I wouldn't hesitate to recommend a tube of Wet Grab in any cruiser's
emergency maintenance kit. I might have tried Liquid Nails but couldn't
find the exterior one quickly enough and the Bostik product claimed it
could even be applied in the wet. Also I don't like the ........ Nails
TV ads! ;-)

--
Ian Malcolm. London, ENGLAND. (NEWSGROUP REPLY PREFERRED)
ianm[at]the[dash]malcolms[dot]freeserve[dot]co[dot]uk
[at]=@, [dash]=- & [dot]=. *Warning* HTML & 32K emails -- NUL:

On Fri, 02 Oct 2009 21:04:31 -0500, cavelamb
wrote:

Bruce In Bangkok wrote:
On Fri, 2 Oct 2009 12:19:45 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:

"Bruce In Bangkok" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 01 Oct 2009 20:21:28 -0500, cavelamb
wrote:

Bruce In Bangkok wrote:
On Thu, 1 Oct 2009 22:39:02 +0200, "Steve Lusardi"
wrote:

Bruce,
In 2006 I helped install a new bridge on a super yacht in Italy. No
fasteners were allowed to show anywhere, which is actually
quite a feat, but the most interesting observation I made was the
method to install the overhead.

It was constructed of 6" wide 1/4" plywood strips tapered slightly on
the edges and on both sides square plates about 1.5 by 2.5
inches were screwed to the back side of strip with 24" spacing. These
thin sheet metal plates were offset from strip to strip by a
little over one plate width. These plates were positioned 1/2 on the
strip and 1/2 off the strip. These were installed on thin
lathing fastened overhead with screws in sequence, one side to the
other, in the following manner. The first strip had glued to
the outboard edge a strip of industrial 3M plastic "Velcro", which made
contact with a corresponding strip on the lathing strip.
The other side was then screwed to the lathe. The next strip's
protruding plates were slipped under the just installed strip
between the lathe and that strip. On the opposite edge of the second
plank, the plates were screwed to its lathe and so on across
the overhead until the last strip was installed and there, just like
the first plank, was fastened with "Velcro" on its outboard
edge. No fastener showed. The overhead strips were very secure and
easily removed for maintenance purpose, if required. Of course
these strips were first fitted, then removed, sanded smooth and
finished in a spray booth with a flat white color before final
fitting. No grain or fastener showed anywhere. It was truly exquisite.
Steve

Thanks for information. This boat is a smallish 35 ' power boat that I
am refurbishing. The hull is essentially a fiberglass shell with a
encapsulated wooden frame. In addition there is a 1/2" - 3/4"
encapsulated reinforcement around each port to stiffen the cabin sides
in that area. This results in a rather "lumpy" interior which I plan
to hide.

As the motif is workboat all lighting and much of the wiring will be
run on the surface of the interior, in conduit or wire molding, so the
idea is to line the boat with 3mm ply surfaced with veneer or formica,
depending on the area.

I can bond a tee shaped strip to the hull and mount ceiling panels by
popping them under the tee but thought why not just glue the panels
in, directly to the hull.

Another poster tells me that he has used liquid nails and it doesn't
fall off so I think I'll go with that method. If worse comes to worst
and it does fall off there is always 3M 5200 - but that is a costly
method of attaching essentially decorative panels.

Lightweight paneling like that should work quite well just glued in.

Liquid Nail needs an air supply to dry it.
Trapping large amounts may cause it to take quite a bit longer to dry.

Other than that? Go for it!
Can you expand on the "need air". I thought it was used to put up wall
paneling and such like in houses. From the instructions on the tube
they say just smear on a bunch and push it in place. Good bond in a
day, full adhesion in 48 hours (I think). $2.50 a tube, or there
about.

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)
There are a lot of Liquid Nails products, Bruce. They make a tub/shower
surround material that's supposed to be much better for water exposure.

Take a look at their tech data and MSDS sheets:

http://www.klenks.com/products/info.jsp?type=msdsSheets

Actually I was using "Liquid Nails" as a generic term as I'm not sure
exactly what or where the stuff that Home Pro is selling here is. Now
that I know that the stuff is at least semi-usable I will delve deeper
into who, what, when, where and why.

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)


In that case, I would highly recommend PL-1 brands.

I've used it to make fuel tanks (test only - never had the guts to fly one).
Bu etching aluminum and priming it, the adhesive reacts with the primer and
gets a really good bite. Fuel proof (for av gas, but I won't claim that for
mogas or diesel. Too many solvents mixed in)

"PL-1" brands? Never heard of it, but tell me more.


Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

Bruce In Bangkok wrote:
On Fri, 02 Oct 2009 21:04:31 -0500, cavelamb
wrote:


In that case, I would highly recommend PL-1 brands.

I've used it to make fuel tanks (test only - never had the guts to fly one).
Bu etching aluminum and priming it, the adhesive reacts with the primer and
gets a really good bite. Fuel proof (for av gas, but I won't claim that for
mogas or diesel. Too many solvents mixed in)

"PL-1" brands? Never heard of it, but tell me more.


Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)


What? You don't know PL-1?
That was the second language I ever learned - right after Assembly.
WAY better than C (imnsho)!



Ok, how about PL brand...

http://www.stickwithpl.com/ProductMain.aspx

http://www.stickwithpl.com/

"Bruce In Bangkok" wrote:

I can bond a tee shaped strip to the hull and mount ceiling panels
by
popping them under the tee but thought why not just glue the panels
in, directly to the hull.

Who ever has to get behind those panels to do something in the future
will thank you for your good judgement if you use the bonded tee
aproach.G

Velco and 6"-8" wide ply strips is another approach.

Lew