Just 2.5 rating and a LOT of reviews from unhappy owners!

http://autos.yahoo.com/toyota_corolla_le/

Now...for the true smackdown....same website and rating for the 2007
Legacy is.....4.5 Stars!!!

http://autos.yahoo.com/2007_subaru_legacy/

One of the highest ratings. Edmunds reflects an even higher score!!!!


BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA! KAPOWWWWEEEE!!!


RB
35s5
NY

"Capt. Rob" wrote in message
ps.com...
Just 2.5 rating and a LOT of reviews from unhappy owners!

http://autos.yahoo.com/toyota_corolla_le/

Now...for the true smackdown....same website and rating for the 2007
Legacy is.....4.5 Stars!!!

http://autos.yahoo.com/2007_subaru_legacy/

One of the highest ratings. Edmunds reflects an even higher score!!!!


BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA! KAPOWWWWEEEE!!!


RB
35s5
NY


Yes and 62% of Republicans say Bush is doing a good job!

Polls show that!

The #1 complaint about Toyota was that it supposedly got the same gas
mileage (23 mpg) as the Subaru!

Bush: 62% Favorable rating!

Polls show that!

The #1 complaint about Toyota was that it supposedly got the same gas
mileage (23 mpg) as the Subaru!



No, you clearly did not read the complaints on Edmunds either.

Corolla issues:

Poor/unsafe handling even with tire upgrade
Brake fade
Vague center steering response at speed
Too much road noise for long drives
Too little room for adults
Awful powerplant and accelration for highway use
MPG far less than expected.
NO 5 star crash rating as with Legacy.

It's okay for trips to the A&P, but a real car it aint.


Sorry!



RB
35s5
NY

"Capt. Rob" wrote in message
oups.com...
The #1 complaint about Toyota was that it supposedly got the same gas
mileage (23 mpg) as the Subaru!



No, you clearly did not read the complaints on Edmunds either.

I read them fully. I carefully selected the one that had best impact (The
Art of Controversy).

However I will address the issues below:


Corolla issues:

Poor/unsafe handling even with tire upgrade

Have not experienced this even in winter Rocky Mt driving.

Brake fade

Have not experienced this even on 12% downhill grades.

Vague center steering response at speed

Nope.

Too much road noise for long drives

Very excessive road noise. Can't use cell phone, stereo must be turned up
all the way. Road noise is not helped by changing tires.

Too little room for adults

Maybe in the back seat.

Awful powerplant and accelration for highway use

Awful off the line acceleration, almost stalls.

MPG far less than expected.

44 mpg highway. 36+ around town.

NO 5 star crash rating as with Legacy.

5 star driver and passenger, just like Legacy at 1/2 the price and twice the
gas mileage!


It's okay for trips to the A&P, but a real car it aint.

I drive it to King Kullen. It's not a real car, it's economical
transportation. It does not enter into the realm of motoring. But neither
does any Subaru product.



Sorry!

I'm not!




RB
35s5
NY

Have not experienced this even in winter Rocky Mt driving.


Test drive a Subaru Legacy GT or WRX, BMW 328XI or even a M35x. Then
get back into your hamster box and let me know how it handles.


Have not experienced this even on 12% downhill grades.


I doubt you even know what brake fade is. Try a series of hard stops.
This is a comfirmed issue with the Corolla.


Vague center steering response at speed


Nope.


Uh, yup. Again, you don't know because you don't drive a road car.
Have you ever read a review of the Subaru sports cars? My LGT eats BMW
330 XI's for breakfast. Tweak both cars and the LGT wins by an even
bigger margin where the LGT can make 315 HP without swapping the
turbo.


Very excessive road noise. Can't use cell phone, stereo must be turned up
all the way. Road noise is not helped by changing tires.

And if this doesn't challenge your self respect, imagine how bad it is
for a child. All of my cars have quiet interiors. The Tribeca is the
quietest of any SUV.


Maybe in the back seat.


Did you buy a two seater? Try to put three adults in a Corolla and you
can lose friends. One of my girlfriends traded in for a superior
(Vastly) Matrix for that very reason.



Awful off the line acceleration, almost stalls.

You aint kidding. The corolla is dangerously underpowered. How bad is
it? Try 0-60 in 9 seconds. Some sources say 10 seconds. Best I've seen
for the manual is 8.73. My 5000 lbs Kia Sedona can make 7.2 seconds!
Toyota acknowleged that the Sienna was underpowered and now matches
the Kia for speed. What does THAT say about the poor Corolla. This is
a major reason the Corolla is a poor man's car and will remain so.


44 mpg highway. 36+ around town.

Virtually no one is reporting these figures. You must have the Meade
Prototype Corolla.


NO 5 star crash rating as with Legacy.


5 star driver and passenger, just like Legacy at 1/2 the price and
twice the
gas mileage!


Yeah, and it has 4 wheels just like the Legacy....but no AWD, no 5
star rating for the rear, no power, weaker brakes, far lesser handling
and so on. The poor Corolla is not even worth the 15K at all.


It does not enter into the realm of motoring. But neither
does any Subaru product.

Toyota does not agree with you. They recently bought a stake in Subaru
away from GM. Like most real driving enthusiasts, they know what
Subaru has done with the WRX, STI and LGT...three cars that stomp on
the toes of a lot of European cars from BMW and Audi. The STI tuned
Legacy will go even further with a whopping 340 HP stock and even more
aggressive handling.
You've clearly shown your ass on this, Bob. Comparing your sad
econobox to a Legacy would be like comparing my car to an M5. But
you'd have to drive an M car to know what I mean, since the raw
numbers really don't tell much of the story. Get back to me when
you've got some basic car experience and we'll talk.


RB
35s5
NY

"Capt. Rob" wrote in message
ups.com...

Have not experienced this even in winter Rocky Mt driving.


Test drive a Subaru Legacy GT or WRX, BMW 328XI or even a M35x. Then
get back into your hamster box and let me know how it handles.

It handles fine for what it is. I'm happy with it, it serves me well.



Have not experienced this even on 12% downhill grades.


I doubt you even know what brake fade is. Try a series of hard stops.
This is a comfirmed issue with the Corolla.


I downshift when descending long steep hills. It might be a long time before
I try a series of hard stops. I don't drive in heavy traffic or in such a
manner that I would have to do a series of hard stops. I know it's not a
race car and I don't need to pretend I'm a race driver.




Vague center steering response at speed


Nope.


Uh, yup. Again, you don't know because you don't drive a road car.
Have you ever read a review of the Subaru sports cars? My LGT eats BMW
330 XI's for breakfast. Tweak both cars and the LGT wins by an even
bigger margin where the LGT can make 315 HP without swapping the
turbo.


When I want to read a good review, I write one.


Very excessive road noise. Can't use cell phone, stereo must be turned
up
all the way. Road noise is not helped by changing tires.

And if this doesn't challenge your self respect, imagine how bad it is
for a child. All of my cars have quiet interiors. The Tribeca is the
quietest of any SUV.

What?




Maybe in the back seat.


Did you buy a two seater? Try to put three adults in a Corolla and you
can lose friends. One of my girlfriends traded in for a superior
(Vastly) Matrix for that very reason.


I don't put three adults in the back seat. Why would I want to? The back
seat folds down to the trunk. It is a nice feature.





Awful off the line acceleration, almost stalls.

You aint kidding. The corolla is dangerously underpowered. How bad is
it? Try 0-60 in 9 seconds. Some sources say 10 seconds. Best I've seen
for the manual is 8.73. My 5000 lbs Kia Sedona can make 7.2 seconds!
Toyota acknowleged that the Sienna was underpowered and now matches
the Kia for speed. What does THAT say about the poor Corolla. This is
a major reason the Corolla is a poor man's car and will remain so.

It's not the 1/4 mile time or 0-60. It's the first 30 feet. A better measure
of a car's utility is the 40-80 mph acceleration test. This is most likely a
highway requirement, not 0-60 mph.



44 mpg highway. 36+ around town.

Virtually no one is reporting these figures. You must have the Meade
Prototype Corolla.


I report it. Also confirmed he

http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.ef7f8f8



NO 5 star crash rating as with Legacy.


5 star driver and passenger, just like Legacy at 1/2 the price and
twice the
gas mileage!


Yeah, and it has 4 wheels just like the Legacy....but no AWD, no 5
star rating for the rear, no power, weaker brakes, far lesser handling
and so on. The poor Corolla is not even worth the 15K at all.

I bought mine for less than that new. Do you buy your cars at retail?




It does not enter into the realm of motoring. But neither
does any Subaru product.

Toyota does not agree with you. They recently bought a stake in Subaru
away from GM. Like most real driving enthusiasts, they know what
Subaru has done with the WRX, STI and LGT...three cars that stomp on
the toes of a lot of European cars from BMW and Audi. The STI tuned
Legacy will go even further with a whopping 340 HP stock and even more
aggressive handling.

Toyota = real driving enthusiasts! You so funny!


You've clearly shown your ass on this, Bob. Comparing your sad
econobox to a Legacy would be like comparing my car to an M5.

I'm not comparing my hamster mobile to a Legacy. But you are comparing your
Legacy to my hamster box.



But
you'd have to drive an M car to know what I mean, since the raw
numbers really don't tell much of the story.

I agree, raw numbers don't mean much. But I'll give you some leeway since
that is all you have.


Get back to me when
you've got some basic car experience and we'll talk.


Was that Atomic 4 in your Pearson sold as a working engine? Your handiwork?

If poor Thomas can't play in the dirt, my God! keep him away from grease and
oil!

I love my Corolla, much more than your Impreza. You couldn't give me your
Impreza, it is too uneconomical.

It's okay for trips to the A&P, but a real car it aint.

I drive it to King Kullen. It's not a real car, it's economical
transportation. It does not enter into the realm of motoring. But neither
does any Subaru product.


After 300 miles, absolutly thrilled with our new Forester. Drove all
the competitors in the same class, and without a doubt, it is the best
handling unit of the bunch.

Frank

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 21 Jun 2007 13:59:15 -0600, "Bob Crantz"
said:

Was that Atomic 4 in your Pearson sold as a working engine? Your
handiwork?

BS seems very reticent about telling us what he did on that old A4. Can't
really understand why he doesn't want to demonstrate his vast expertise
about engines.

Thanks for pointing that tidbit out a while back. RB has gotten a bit nasty
of late. I wonder why.

BC

I don't drive in heavy traffic or in such a
manner that I would have to do a series of hard stops. I know it's not
a
race car and I don't need to pretend I'm a race driver.


No, pretending you owned a performance car would be a mistake. As for
brake fade, a problem for the Corolla, lets just hope you never
experience a situation to bring it into a scenerio.




When I want to read a good review, I write one.


But not an honest one. The Corolla is not known as a good handling
chassis. And it isn't. Period.



What?


A quiet interior is something self respecting entusiast drivers enjoy
in better cars. The Tribeca is class leading in that respect.



I don't put three adults in the back seat. Why would I want to?


A very sad and revealing response.


It's not the 1/4 mile time or 0-60. It's the first 30 feet. A
better measure
of a car's utility is the 40-80 mph acceleration test. This is most
likely a
highway requirement, not 0-60 mph.


The Corolla lacks the torque to be safe in ANY speed requirement. It
simply can't get out of it's own way.


I bought mine for less than that new. Do you buy your cars at retail?


It does not enter into the realm of motoring. But neither
does any Subaru product.


Toyota does not agree with you. They recently bought a stake in Subaru
away from GM. Like most real driving enthusiasts, they know what
Subaru has done with the WRX, STI and LGT...three cars that stomp on
the toes of a lot of European cars from BMW and Audi. The STI tuned
Legacy will go even further with a whopping 340 HP stock and even more
aggressive handling.



Toyota = real driving enthusiasts! You so funny!


Toyota wants Subaru's relationship with the enthusiast community. You
missed the point. The WRX, STI and LGT are very popular in the sports
car market. The STI is already a legend. And Toyota's last incarnation
of the Supra was a excellent touring car to say the least. Seems like
you don't know anything about Toyota's history at all.


I'm not comparing my hamster mobile to a Legacy.

Nope, you've compared it to a car I don't own. That's the best you can
do. And only someone with little money would pick a Corolla over a
Impreza of course.


I agree, raw numbers don't mean much. But I'll give you some leeway
since
that is all you have.


Actually...All I have are these nice cars in my driveway. I enjoy
them. I used to drive cars like yours, but now I'm older and deserve
(and have) better. If a Corolla is what you deserve or it's the best
you can afford, that's entirely your fault.


Was that Atomic 4 in your Pearson sold as a working engine? Your
handiwork?


And it's still working.


I love my Corolla, much more than your Impreza. You couldn't give
me your
Impreza, it is too uneconomical.


I couldn't give you one since I don't own one. Actually, outside of an
STI I wouldn't own a Corolla or an Imprezza. I plan to buy the Legacy
GT-STI in 2009.


RB
35s5
NY

Capt. Rob wrote:

I don't put three adults in the back seat. Why would I want to?

A very sad and revealing response.

I don't, and don't want to, put three adults in the back seat of my car,
either. Is that also sad and revealing?


--
Capt Scumbalino